Amazin' Avenue: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
New Blog: Sounder At Heart for Seattle Sounders Fans!

Productive Gangsta Outs>Hits

Marty Noble brings out all of our favorite cliches, just in time for the spring!

Among the defeats the Mets endured during their September slide last season was one that particularly distressed their manager, because he was certain that it could have been averted had his hitters not adhered to their routine practices.

Practice bad or a typo? I guess we'll find out.

That night, Jerry Manuel would have paid a princely sum for a swing that perhaps would have produced a foul ball to extend a critical at-bat.

If he would have paid that much for a non-guranteed foul ball, think what he would shell out for a walk or even a double. If they ever hope to hit another homer, they'll need the bailout money.

For want of a small-ball component -- more contentious at-bats, a properly placed ground ball -- the Mets lost that night, prompting Manuel to lament during the postmortems: "There are things we can do to win games that we don't always try. ... There's more than one way to skin a cat."

What game is he referring to? Was there really a game last season that  a groundout would have won?

And what are the ways to win a game the Mets haven't tried? Throwing the spitball, taking steroids, and giving Castro the steal signal come to mind. Or maybe he means it literally.

"I told that cat next time he tries an hit a homer, Ima skin him right there on the field. With my blade. My gangsta blade."

Big swings, base-path thievery and anything else that might gain statistical favor in a salary-arbitration hearing will be acceptable, of course, but only at the appropriate instances

"Guys, I want you to go out there and try to lose as much money as possible."

"Does that mean I can moon the ump?"

"Shut up, Green."

Whenever necessary, they will go outside the box score.

Beyond the Box Score? Guess not...

"More Mark Lemke than Mark McGwire" was the phrase that former Met Lenny Harris once used to describe the difference in how the game can be played at critical moments.

Manuel advocates the former.

Mark Lemke Career OPS+: 71

Mark McGwire: 162

To Lemke's credit, his Baseball Reference page sports this tribute:

As Shakespeare wrote in Twelfth Night, "Be not afraid of greatness: some are born great, some acheive greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them." Mark Lemke had all three.

...but I digress...

"You can have that kind of effort every day," he said last year when told of Harris' 10-year-old comparative. "That kind of play doesn't slump."

It's true: if you always suck, how can you slump. Brilliant.

And consider it his way of underscoring the skin-the-cat credo that he situated himself on the outfield lawn during intrasquad games so he could be a Jiminy Cricket for his shortstop, and that he assigned some of the team's most successful and highest-profile position players unfamiliar addresses in the batting orders.

Seriously, can you imagine Jiminy Cricket running at Reyes with a knife every time he makes an error? Can someone please photoshop Manuel's head onto Jiminy Cricket and put a knife in his hand. Maybe make it an inspirational poster that says "Winning" at the bottom.

And the Mets are listening, even accepting it.

"Why not?" David Wright said after his exposure to the 80-in-six torture. "It's not like we've been real successful doing it a different way."

"Alright, Johan, Francisco is going to pitch the first eight innings and you'll pitch the ninth today."

"Why?"

"Last time it went the other way, K-Rod blew the save."

"That doesn't make any sense."

"And you have to throw right-handed."

"OK."

The Mets are ripe for Manuel. Even though he was involved in the two unrewarding Septembers, the players recognize that the fault lies with them, not the men who make trades, decide when to hit and run, and whether to wave a runner home.

Marlon Anderson wouldn't have sucked so much last year if Omar hadn't traded for him and made him the contingency plan for Alou.

Moreover, they are being exposed to an all-for-one approach some five months after the Rays' "9=8" credo brought a less-proven team to the World Series.

Omar: "What makes these Rays so good. Their bullpen? Incredible fielding?"

"No sir, their manager has a credo. It's in all the papers."

"What's a credo?"

"The French word for bunt, if I'm not mistaken."

"Of course...get Jerry on the phone."

"We know what Tampa Bay did," Jose Reyes said. "They were a good team. We are a good team."

Oliver Perez saw what CC Sabathia did. Oliver Perez is a pitcher. CC Sabathia is a-holy crap, be right back.

Although it may seem childish, that's the only comparison between these two teams that makes any sense.

Who will pitch late innings for the Mets this year -- J.J. Putz and Frankie Rodriguez -- has changed, but little else, in terms of personnel, is different.

Those two pitchers? Oh yeah, no biggie. Besides that eleven-player trade, Minaya made almost no trades. Now let's talk about making more outs.

Manuel intends to celebrate small-ball successes. When Nick Evans advanced a runner with a right-side groundout on Wednesday in the first exhibition game, against the Orioles, the manager lauded his contribution and made no mention of the base hits that Evans had produced in his three other at-bats.

Keep this man away from Fernando Martinez. Seriously, fly F-Mart to the baseball academy in the Dominican Republic and tell him to hit homers. If I was Omar Minaya, I'd give him all the crappy prospects to Manuel for a bunting drill, then when he's not looking, get the rest on a raft to Cuba.

"It's a good way to play," Minaya said. "I think more teams will take that approach now. And most teams don't have the level of talent we have. "If we use the right approach with our talent, we should have a very good year."

good players+bad idea>bad players+bad idea?

I give up.

1 recs  |  Comment 29 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

More from Amazin' Avenue

Mets Managerial Musings

Oct 2009 by Eric Simon - 40 comments

Friday Hodgepodge

Sep 2009 by James Kannengieser - 26 comments

David Wright!

Aug 2009 by Sam Page - 36 comments

Mets Movie Of The Week

Aug 2009 by James Kannengieser - 27 comments

Comments

Display:

I don't even know any more.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Mar 3, 2009 8:06 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

in reference to Marlon sucking

I ‘m quite certain that he would have sucked just as much had he not played as much. We just wouldn’t have known about it. It’s kind of a “tree falls in the forest” thing.

In other news, shitty is the new good, knuckle-baller mark lemke is a god among men, and ground balls to the right side produce just as many runs as 2 run homers.

by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Mar 3, 2009 8:51 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

All snark aside

The need for situational hitting is evident, and perhaps doesnt show up in the advanced stats that are lauded here. I cant imagine that Noble or anyone would ever say that a ground-out to the right side is better than a two-run HR, but it is also a hell of alot easier to accomplish. So, in the case of late inning, tied games with a runner on third and nobody out, the team-first mentality should be to choke up and make contact with two strikes instead of taking a rip and trying to hit the ball out of the ball park, leaving the man stranded when you punch out.
The purpose of his 80 pitch drill isnt to make all the hitters into Mark Lemke. THe purpose is to teach to all of them to trust their hands , and not be guess hitters, which pull hitters often can be. By intending to go the other way, they are seeing the ball another instant and reacting to the pitch. Most HS ball players do that in a BP session, except its usually for two pitches before swinging away. 80 pitches is unreal, and I applaud the intent to remind these guys that they have fast hands.
So much animosity…

by TBlz on Mar 3, 2009 9:22 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Runner on third with nobody out,

sure choke up or whatever. I’m not disparaging the 80-pitch drill or anything but the idea of productive outs is, on the whole, stupid. And here’s some proof.

King of the bling come to lay down the evidence//Not George Bush, L-Millz be da president

by Sam Page on Mar 3, 2009 9:45 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

But

Why mess with the approach of good hitters, in order to get them to do something that may only be required a few times a year?

by Reg Dunlop on Mar 3, 2009 10:40 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I get what you're saying.

But honestly, I don’t think its ever a good idea to screw up David Wright’s swing, for example.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Mar 3, 2009 11:27 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

and the phillies were great because they had a motto

whats a motto?

Nuthin, whattsa motto whichu?!?

HELLO HELLO MR WILPON. WE WANT THE MANSION NOT THE CONDO.

by kendynamo on Mar 3, 2009 9:45 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

also i love the whole

well, we havent won a world series using these other methods yet, what can it hurt to try?

ah, good point, you also havent tried cutting everyone on the team and letting a little league team play – why not give it a shot? you couldnt not win a world series any more than you already have not!

HELLO HELLO MR WILPON. WE WANT THE MANSION NOT THE CONDO.

by kendynamo on Mar 3, 2009 9:47 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Just put a blade in the other hand

King of the bling come to lay down the evidence//Not George Bush, L-Millz be da president

by Sam Page on Mar 3, 2009 10:48 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

"Was there really a game last season that a groundout would have won?"

While I don’t agree with much of anything Noble says, the answer to this question is “yes” and it didn’t even take me much time to find one such game. On September 24th the Mets lost to the Cubs 9-6 in 10 innings, the Cubs staging a 2-out rally in the 10th, Ayala’s second inning of work that night. Prior to that happening, though, the Irish Hammer tripled leading off the bottom of the 9th of a then-6-6 game. At that point, a groundout does win the game, but DW struck out. Then the Cubs walked the bases loaded, Church grounded into a force at home, and Hippo K’ed to end the inning, and the rest was history.

by JoshNY on Mar 3, 2009 11:07 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Please, stop. It hurts.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Mar 3, 2009 11:28 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I remember that game.

And I’m pretty sure Wright was trying to make contact.

King of the bling come to lay down the evidence//Not George Bush, L-Millz be da president

by Sam Page on Mar 3, 2009 11:43 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh yeah, I agree

I’m not making some absurd claim (like the one we all made fun of a few weeks ago about George Brett and Frank White and how Brett refused to alter his swing in certain situations and failed to drive in runs as a result, because, what?) about Wright’s approach that AB. He knew as well as anyone what the situation was.

Heck, maybe Wright was trying to hit a ground ball and Howry just fooled him with a really good pitch. (Howry’s a solid pitcher even if he had a down year in 2008.) Maybe Howry had a really good fastball that day (incidentally, BtB has a really good dissection of Howry’s fastball) or was throwing up in the zone (incidentally, if you check this game out in MLB.com Gameday, you’ll see that Howry wasn’t throwing tremendously hard but that everything he threw to Wright was up high, probably because Howry knew as well as the rest of us that a grounder probably ends the game) and Wright just thought he’d have more luck trying to drive the run in with a sac fly than a grounder.

Possibilities like this are why it’s ridiculous to write some kind of “analysis” that holds this or any one AB up as evidence of the Mets’ “flawed approach” and thus advocates that what they really need to practice is grounding out more effectively.

All that being said, Noble is still right that a ground ball probably would have won that game.

by JoshNY on Mar 3, 2009 12:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

We know what tampa bay did?

Have a rotation so good and young it’s like they’re cheating?

by Gina on Mar 3, 2009 11:26 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Also surrounding their stars, or future stars at least, with above average players?

Rather than surrounding them with… Marlon Anderson and Damion Easley?

by Gina on Mar 3, 2009 11:31 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

This bothers me. A lot.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Mar 3, 2009 11:46 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Same here

Especially since the organization apparently seems to think the problem is apparently having too many statistical players rather having to many not good players,

by Gina on Mar 3, 2009 2:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

We'll see what happens.

I don’t read into Manuel’s quotes too much; he seems to like hearing the sound of his own voice.

I do think the Mets needed a lesson in situational hitting, but that doesn’t mean “productive outs.” It means going the opposite way with a man on first and taking advantage of the hole on the right side. Or changing your approach with two strikes to try and put the ball in play. A strikeout isn’t always the worst thing in the world, but if there is a man on second with 0 outs and a dude throws you a nasty curve, instead of popping out in foul territory, try to slap it to the right side to get the guy over. But you obviously shouldn’t go up to bat with your main objective being getting the guy over. Just saying your approach should change in certain situations. Again, I know this is easier said than done, but ballplayers used to do this sort of thing all the time.

by SQUAD on Mar 3, 2009 5:02 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

God I have never wished I had Photoshop quite so much as right now.
Seriously, can you imagine Jiminy Cricket running at Reyes with a knife every time he makes an error? Can someone please photoshop Manuel’s head onto Jiminy Cricket and put a knife in his hand. Maybe make it an inspirational poster that says “Winning” at the bottom.

How about someone goes to a game dressed as Jiminy Cricket, and threatens to cut Wright whenever he makes an error?

by BobbyV_Incognito on Mar 3, 2009 6:44 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Excellent

I have a feeling this graphic will come in handy.

King of the bling come to lay down the evidence//Not George Bush, L-Millz be da president

by Sam Page on Mar 4, 2009 9:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Start posting about the Mets »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

The_buddha_by_lord_karsus_small
2009 Mets Gangsta and Grission Awards
Buckner_small
The robcast Mets Offseason Plan
Hamheadshot__1__small
Poem: There's Only One October Wish

Recent FanPosts

Mwsos8pj_1__small
How Would Other Teams Do in 2009 With The Mets Injuries?
Small
Gonzalez over Davis?
Small
Off-season reading: the best baseball books
Small
Thoughts on Yankees vs. Phillies
43cd0dee9d920fd72b0a2b2bce4f8a00-getty-90957610bb021_los_angeles_k_small
Just curious as to why Met fans "hate" the Phillies
Small
It All Started With Torrealba...
Metseyes_small
'10 Mets Sep-Oct Schedule: Advantage Mets

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

Pricks Beat Douchebags to Win World Series

Recent FanShots

Ramon Hernandez an option?
SNY series digs into Mets history
Scouts opinions and grains of salt
Hustle, Dedication, Intelligence, and Teamwork
Myers done with Phillies
Chapman likes New York
White Sox Buy Out Dye's Contract
BA Mets Top 10
Carlos Gomez dealt to the Brewers for JJ Hardy
Hit-and-run victim outside Phillies game dies from injuries

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

Sponsors


THE BIG GUY

Aa_avatar_small Eric Simon

THE INCREDIBLES

Blackfish2_small Alex Nelson

Cj_small Sam Page

Best_infield_ever_small James Kannengieser

THE NEWS GURU

Wrightfront_small Joe Budd

POET LAUREATE

Hamheadshot__1__small Howard Megdal