Thursday Applesauce
I've got nothing really interesting to say in this section today, so I will get right to news, since I am the news guru.
Around Port St. Lucie
Livan Hernandez took a step back yesterday in his bid for the fifth starter spot, Mike Pelfrey was shaky, and the offense was limited to five hits in yesterday's exhibition action. The team's WBC players fared significantly better, including Jose Reyes who continues to impress A-Rod.
If the Mets are playing without any of their stars, a radio or television broadcast, or a Major League Baseball opponent, does anyone care? Find out today as the Mets play Mike Piazza's Italian team at 2:05.
Someone had better get this opening day story straight. I just want Santana to pitch 30-something games this year and rushing to pitch opening day had better not mess that up.
I knew I was going to hate this New York Times article as soon as I read the lede. Don't get me wrong, I'm excited about Citi Field, it's just that I'm nervous that it's exactly what the Times article says it is: "The Anti-Shea." The Mets need to embrace more of their past than just Seaver, Hodges, and Stengel party suites. This whole article just rubbed me the wrong way, much like the Citi Field project.
Oh, and in case you can't wait to see what it looks like, here is a Citi Field photo album.
When you're down, and troubled, and you need a helping hand, just try and remember that the Mets bullpen should be a whole lot better this year.
Speaking of embracing the Mets' past, here's a great reminder about Jon Matlack, the type of player they should be celebrating.
Jose Reyes' abililty to get hits would serve the team better in the #3 spot.
Around the NL East
Tom Glavine is taking the exact opposite approach as Pedro Martinez to winning a spot in a rotation.
The new Marlins' stadium plans will have to be put on hold at least until March 19th. The City of Miami is also hoping that the WBC provides some economic stimulus in the form of $30 million.
Mike Rizzo is the Nationals' interim baseball operations guy.
"The Mets are a good organization with really talented players and finally, a new stadium." Awww, thanks Cole.
Around MLB
In response to our little talk radio discussion yesterday, here's an article about how to fix sports radio.
I'm excited to see more of Yu Darvish in the WBC. That is probably my favorite part of this tournament: seeing hyped up foreign players play against major league competition.
Here's an addendum to yesterday's "Batman" suicide article. It wasn't really suicide, but rather stupidity. Still sad.
MANNY ALERT!!!!!! I'm not even going to bother linking to a story about the Manny signing. In case you haven't heard, 2 years, $45 million was the price tag. Instead, here's an article about the new logjam in the Dodger outfield.
This is at least one reason to pay attention to the Pirates this year. They have signed two winners of an Indian reality show to minor league contracts. It will be a credit to these guys' talent and hard work and their coaching staff should they ever make it to the bigs.
Philadelphia News
A Pennsylvania state senator from Philadelphia is in court for defrauding the senate.
And Finally...
I kind of wish that Jose Reyes does this and give the Phillies a real reason to hate him.
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Truncation Fail
The title of the linked Mets Merized article is “Mets Closer(s) Will Blow Hitters Away”, but the page name is truncated to “mets-closers-will-blow-hitters.html”.
Oops.
Rather that than blowing games
King of the bling come to lay down the evidence//Not George Bush, L-Millz be da president
my HS baseball coach
always told us not to drain the pipes within 24 hours of games, b/c it would sap our leg energy (or something like that). So, maybe that wouldn’t be a bad idea for opposing batters…
which, like 95% of the things HS baseball coaches say,
is complete bs.
Once, while warming up in the bullpen before a high school game
my h.s. coach instructed me “Don’t blow your load before the game” (as in, don’t warm up too much).
by James Kannengieser on Mar 5, 2009 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
That NYT article about the new stadium
Raises some good points about the new stadium, but parts of it definitely rubbed me the wrong way too.
Citi Field will hold about 42,000 fans, 15,000 fewer than Shea. The park is enclosed and many seats wrap around the outfield, so it feels much cozier than Shea’s open-ended bowl, which favored watching football.
“Cozier” is good, I guess, but 15,000 fewer seats is just blatantly manipulating supply and demand to drive prices up and there are going to be a LOT of people who can’t find tickets when the team is good (e.g., now).
During an extensive tour of Citi Field on Tuesday, Jeff Wilpon, the team’s chief operating officer, spoke in the Acela Club, a restaurant in left field that will have 550 seats, table service, a bar and wine cabinets for frequent patrons.
"There’s all this light and air, and then you’re looking back at the field," Wilpon said. "We want to make people feel they’re in a living room."
WTF? What’s wrong with feeling like you’re in a baseball stadium?
The seats throughout the stadium are angled toward the center of the infield, reducing the need for fans, particularly on the field level, to crane their necks toward home plate.
Unequivocally a good thing and corrects one of the worst flaws of Shea.
Sitting in their seats, few fans will see the chop shops in Willets Point, the cars roaring past on the Van Wyck Expressway, the subway yards to the south or the U-Haul sign. They will still get a crystal-clear view of the planes on their final approach to La Guardia Airport. Some things never change.
Did anyone really care about that stuff? It’s a city, what’s so bad about seeing city things? Though personally I still think my idea to put the Mets new stadium on the Red Hook waterfront was a better idea if you wanted a nice view.
Citi Field has many nooks and crannies that are nothing like Shea’s tired symmetry. The grandstand that hangs over right field, for instance, was inspired by the old Tiger Stadium, which Wilpon visited with his grandparents as a child. Fans in center field will get a bull’s-eye view of the bullpens, with Aaron Heilman only in the visitors’ half, which is on a slightly raised level, with some protection from fan saliva.
Why are contrived quirks any better than symmetry? Why is symmetry “tired”? Old Yankee Stadium has a symmetric outfield, and new Yankee Stadium has the exact same layout, yet I bet the NYT would describe it as “classic” if they were writing about the Yankees.
Going for food or a bathroom break will be a lot easier. The concourses are far wider, bathrooms are more numerous and beer drinkers will not have to wander far for a microbrew.
Wider concourses are absolutely a good thing. Better selection of beers is good (though I’m going to guess that there will still be a number of concession stands that still only have cheap beer). “Bathrooms are more numerous” is something of a distortion though; there are a lot more women’s restrooms and family restrooms, but actually fewer men’s restrooms. (That’s mitigated by there being fewer people, of course.)
The chance of a plumbing malfunction has also been reduced: the Mets have installed waterless urinals, an eco-friendly touch.
That’s cool.
The walk from the subway station to Citi Field’s front entrance will take about as long as it took to reach Gate E at Shea, but an acre of planters, trees and other landscaping will usher fans to the new park’s brick exterior and ornate rotunda named for Jackie Robinson.Nothing they could do about the longer walk, the stadium is where it is.
I’m getting bored of this exercise. It just seems like there’s been plenty of needless Shea-bashing over the years and this is just more of the same.
by JoshNY on Mar 5, 2009 12:16 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
+1
This should really be a FanPost (sorry, couldn’t help myself).
Anyway, I completely agree with your premise about the unfettered Shea-bashing. Was it the “perfect” stadium? No, certainly not. It was one of a great number of shitty multi-use stadiums that dotted the sports world for about 40 years, and it certainly had its flaws. But it was still home (for us Mets fans) and it certainly wasn’t the backwards hell-hole some writers seem to make it out to be. I’m not saying people need to look back and paint the prettiest picture, all sepia tones and happy birds chirping and such, but I’ll always maintain it was a pretty great place to watch a game and produced some, if you’ll pardon the phrasing, amazin’ memories over the years. I can only hope that I’ll be able to feel a sold-out CitiField shaking beneath my feet after a huge Mets win like I was fortunate enough to experience on more than one occasion at Shea.
'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Mar 5, 2009 12:31 PM EST reply actions
Crap.
Meant to hit “reply.” Well, you get the idea.
'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Mar 5, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
You know what else bugs me?
It was very trendy to bash many of the multi-use stadiums built in the 1960s and 1970s (Shea, the Vet, Three Rivers, Riverfront, RFK, etc.) as “cookie-cutter” because they were all so similar (though Shea less so than many of the others because it wasn’t fully enclosed). But are the new generation of baseball-specific stadiums (early 1990s to present) any less so? From what I’ve seen of New Shea thus far, it looks a lot like Coors and New Busch and the Jake (now Progressive Field). All nice places to watch a game, sure, but also all belonging to a similar architectural style that’s quickly becoming generic. (Is it really any coincidence given that almost every baseball stadium built since 1990 has been designed by HOK Sport?) At one point everyone loved that previous generation of stadiums because they were (at the time) new and exciting, even though they were generic, and now everyone loves this generation of stadiums because they’re new and exciting, even though they’re generic, but 15 years from now, will anyone still believe New Shea is awesome just because it’s different than Old Shea was? Different for the sake of being different isn’t really what we should be going for, is it?
by JoshNY on Mar 5, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I thought the bigger problems with...
….the “cookie cutter” stadiums was that they were built as a multi-purpose venue. Shea had the Jets for a bit, a couple of concerts, then nothing else. So, they sacrificed an optimal baseball viewing stadium for flexilbilty that was never really used.
That's a complaint I can get with
But, like I think Josh is suggesting, just saying “oh, those old stadiums all look alike” is kind of a silly complaint what with the similarities of the HOK stadiums that have been popping up, particularly since the mid- to late-90s.
'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Mar 5, 2009 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly.
While it’s really nice to have baseball specific stadiums, IMO, it is a complete and total waste to have football specific stadiums. They are a waste of taxpayer money, land, and resources. They’re used for 9 weekends a year, tops. Sure they’re used for concerts and conventions, but in the NY Metro area, where land is scarce, why do we have 3 stadiums being built for our baseball and football teams? I was so glad the West Side Stadium failed… it would be absurd for the Giants and Jets to have two separate stadiums.
The worst example of this is in Detroit. They have recently built new football, baseball, and hockey venues. And the Pistons still play at the palace. How on earth does a city that his been in economic turmoil for years justify spending tons of money on 3 different venues? Why do the Pistons and Red Wings need different arenas?
The bottom line, I go to games to watch the freaking games. I don’t care about micro-brews, ferris wheels, or having waiter service at my seats.
Hmmm
I must have confused them with someone else.
Whatever, the point still stands. I don’t know why you need separate hockey and basketball arenas.
I don't either
but we’re seeing it more often these days it seems (Devils moved and didn’t invite the Nets, NHL expanded back to MSP and built the hockey-specific X rather than move into the multi-purpose Target Center, and of course just many NHL teams in cities with no NBA team).
Totally agree with the Shea bashing.
You know what I loved about Shea? I loved being able to get Upper Deck tickets behind home plate or along the baselines for like 10 bucks and being able to see everything from up there. Honestly, section 1 in the Upper Deck was my favorite place to watch a game because you saw EVERYTHING. I actually had UD box seats for Game 7 of the NLCS in ’06 and had the perfect view for the Endy catch (and the Molina homer, unfortunately.)
As for the reduced capacity, what bothers me is how it effects the atmosphere. Yes, there will be people who will get shut out of tickets, but I think it stinks that there will be about 15,000 less people there for playoff games. I don’t care what anyone says, but when the Mets were in the playoffs, Shea was an absolutely magical place to be and that place would be ROCKING. I seriously thought the stadium was going to collapse after the Endy catch, and I firmly believe the fans helped carry the team to a win in Game 6. So in addition to pricing out many of their fans, the Mets have also eliminated a phenomenal home field advantage that most baseball teams do not have.
Lastly, I may be in the minority, but I am really sick of all this Brooklyn Dodger crap. I understand they were our NL forefathers, but so were the Giants and there is hardly any mention of them. And while I definitely have the utmost respect for Jackie Robinson, the fact that Seaver does not have a statue somewhere is a joke. Another joke is that we have a box named after Ebbbets field. Again, I understand there is a sort of lineage thing going on here, but how about naming a box for the man who brought the NL back to New York City? You know, the guy who the old stadium was named after?
And finally, could we please retire a number from the ‘86 team? My vote is for Keith, but I can see the argument for others. At the very least can we please take it out of circulation? I can’t stand seeing scrubs like David Newhan rocking #17.
Pretty sure you're not in the minority around here
I know Fred Wilpon loves him some Brooklyn Dodgers, but this team are not the Brooklyn Dodgers. The last I checked, that team was on the other side of the country.
'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Mar 5, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
It really bothers me.
It’s not like we’re the Nationals embracing the Washington Senators history (even though they eventually became the Twins and Rangers, but you know what I mean… there was a name change involved.) The Dodgers franchise moved and took all of its history with them. The Mets’ connection to the Dodgers is contrived, IMO.
should the Mets stop wearing blue and orange?
wait, don’t answer that.
I don’t have a problem with honoring the NL New York baseball connection, because they were formed to appease and appeal to Dodgers and Giants fans. But it shouldn’t come at the expense of their own history, and I think that’s the crux of the problem. They are honoring the Dodgers and only the Dodgers b/c Wilpon grew up a Dodgers fan, which kinda smacks the former Giants fans AND anyone younger than 50 in the face.
The point
is that the Mets being born out of a void created when the Giants and Dodgers moved out west should now only be worth a footnote, or perhaps a small mention in the first paragraph of their history. I could understand focusing on this connection in the 60s when the team was first created, but that was almost 50 years ago. The Mets have a pretty rich history in their own right.
I just don’t get this love affair with the Brooklyn Dodgers. Not only did they abandon their fans, but they also led the way for the Giants to relocate as well.
You mentioned how what the Mets are doing is sort of a smack in the face to former Giants fans and Mets fans under 50. Well, I think the fact that the team is making such a big deal about the Dodger connection and have named the rotunda after Jackie Robinson is kind of a smack to the face of the great Met players like, especially Seaver. Seaver was the greatest Met ever by far and is our only Hall of Famer. How this guy isn’t celebrated more is beyond me.
I agree with you
about Seaver. I agree even more that they don’t do enough to honor other Mets greats (especially poor Jerry Koosman, who’s still 2nd in a lot of pitching categories) and most of the guys from the ‘86 squad. I don’t have a problem with them paying tribute to pre-‘62 NL history, so long as it doesn’t come at the expense of their own history, which it has been.
I am glad they’re taking the old apple AND putting in a new apple at Citi Field, that’s a nice nod to Shea at least.
We don't need no stinkin' NEW apple
I agree about Seaver and I hope he eventually has a statue or something along those lines, but Jackie Robinson occupies a special place in baseball history and I’m OK with the Mets associating themselves with that.
Don't forget that the Orange and Blue also represents NY heritage

The New York city flag, derived from the The United Provinces’ flag
Yeah, I know what you mean about the Dodgers stuff
but since the new stadium was designed largely in order to make more money, and baby boomers who grew up rooting for the Brooklyn Dodgers are the ones with the money, so… the connection is pretty apparent.
I mean, it’s not like the Mets even play in Brooklyn.
Yeah I get that angle too
But those remaining Brooklyn fans have got to be getting pretty old by now. Anyway, as a Mets fan who is only 30 years old, I’d appreciate some more love for the team I root for, not Fred Wilpon’s favorite team when he was growing up. Is Citi going to contain giant banners celebrating great Mets, like the ones at Shea? Like Squad says above, can’t The Franchise get a little more love? This team has a pretty significant history both good and bad over the past 47 years and sometimes it feels like ownership doesn’t do enough to honor it.
'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Mar 5, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly.
I would take it a step further. Every team has “those guys” who were loved by the fanbase. I feel like the Mets brass can be a bit out of touch with their fanbase at times.
Tributes are not only about the Seavers, Piazzas, Hernandezes, Carters, etc., but they’re also about the HoJos, the Hundleys, the Wilsons, and the Alfonzos. All these guys don’t need to have murals, but these are the guys I loved growing up, and I feel like the organization ignores these kind of guys.
I guess so
but my father is a pretty good example (born in 1946, grew up in Queens and then Nassau County, went to Ebbets when he was a kid) and he’s definitely the target audience with disposable income. Unfortunately for the Wilpons, he agrees with me about the money-grubbing that’s going on.
Agree with you guys about the history though. I loved the fact that you couldn’t walk 20 feet at Shea without seeing a banner with a picture of Mookie or Pratt or Jesse Orosco.
Re: today's exhibition game
'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Mar 5, 2009 2:50 PM EST reply actions
Am I crazy or would Piazza (current Piazza, not young Piazza) be the best player on that Italy team?
Hell
Current Piazza might be one of the top two or three Mets on the field today.
'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Mar 5, 2009 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
I saw Val when played for NOLA
and he batted just like Piazza. Even the little swing before his stance.
King of the bling come to lay down the evidence//Not George Bush, L-Millz be da president

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