Off Day WAR: The Best And Worst Seasons By Mets Third Basemen
by James Kannengieser on Apr 30, 2009 1:30 PM EDT
in Stats
66 comments
Third base is next up in the off day wins above replacement (WAR) series. Presented here are the top ten seasons in Mets history according to Sean Smith's WAR Database:
| Rank | Year | Player | WAR |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 2007 | David Wright | 8.0 |
| 2 | 1989 | Howard Johnson | 7.7 |
| 3 | 1999 | Robin Ventura | 7.0 |
| 4 | 1997 | Edgardo Alfonzo | 6.7 |
| 5 | 2008 | David Wright | 6.0 |
| 6 | 2002 | Edgardo Alfonzo | 5.3 |
| 7 | 2006 | David Wright | 4.7 |
| 8 | 2005 | David Wright | 4.6 |
| 9 | 1987 | Howard Johnson | 4.5 |
| 10 | 1991 | Howard Johnson | 4.3 |
And the bottom ten:
| Rank | Year | Player | WAR |
|---|---|---|---|
| 38 | 1967 | Ed Charles | 0.4 |
| 39 | 1969 | Wayne Garrett | 0.3 |
| 40 | 1995 | Edgardo Alfonzo | 0.3 |
| 41 | 1983 | Hubie Brooks | 0.2 |
| 42 | 1985 | Howard Johnson | 0.2 |
| 43 | 1964 | Charley Smith | -0.1 |
| 44 | 1972 | Jim Fregosi | -0.3 |
| 45 | 1971 | Bob Aspromonte | -1.7 |
| 46 | 2003 | Ty Wigginton | -1.7 |
| 47 | 1982 | Hubie Brooks | -1.8 |
Some brief bullet points:
- Seven of the top ten seasons are from David Wright and Howard Johnson, two current Mets employees. Based on what I've been reading on other Mets blogs, there's a large contingent of the fan base which wouldn't mind seeing both of them become former Mets employees.
- It's possible that Wright will own seven or eight of the top ten seasons by the time he's done playing. That is, unless he gets run out of town by the flat-earth society.
- Robin Ventura's 1999 season was special. He's one of the most valuable all-around third basemen of the last twenty years.
- Both TotalZone and UZR are really harsh on Ty Wigginton's defense. His 2003 season was a disaster.
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Also: Edgardo Alfonzo was good, no matter where he played.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Apr 30, 2009 1:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yep
That was one awesome stretch from ‘97-’02.
'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Apr 30, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
MOR PROOF
TRAID DAVID WRITE
King of the bling come to lay down the evidence//Not George Bush, L-Millz be da president
by Sam Page on Apr 30, 2009 1:38 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
I'M OFFICIALLY DONE WITH THIS TEAM!!
by TheBigStapler on Apr 30, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HE'S NOT WRIGHT!!! HE'S NOT WRIGHT!!!
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Apr 30, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ITS TIME THE WILBONS GIVE US FANS WHAT WE DESERV
D RWIGHT = CONDO MANRAM = MANSHION
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON. WE WANT THE MANSION NOT THE CONDO.
by kendynamo on Apr 30, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
How many rings does he have? How many does Eckstein have?
Uh huh, I thought so.
On that note, why are we wasting our time with that bum Santana, also of no rings? He needs to be traded for Carl Pavano, who proved that he can come through when it counts.
2009 Mets: maybe its the Phillies turn to have a terrible bullpen?
by Greenpoint Ian on Apr 30, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
SCOTT BROSIOUS WAS A REEL WINER
HES GOT THE RINGS AND TEH GLORY ADN PLAYED 3B WIHT PASSOIN. I WOUD TRADE D WRIGHT FOR A HALF OF SCOT BROCIOUS. CMON OMAR GIEV US PLAYARS WITH HART
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON. WE WANT THE MANSION NOT THE CONDO.
by kendynamo on Apr 30, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Spelling correction:
We were looking for “moar,” not mor.
Example:
Moar like david wrong, amirite
by gogomets on Apr 30, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wiggy
I was at a Mets game when Wigginton was still on the team, and there was some contest for people in one row to reorganize the letters given to them and spell the name of a player. The crew behind me were given Ty Wigginton. They failed miserably. It was funny because once they realized who it was, they were out of time.
"The people of Houston are spending money like oil's selling at $40 a barrel."
by IanB in MD on Apr 30, 2009 1:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh man I totally forgot about that
It was almost cruel to assign that task. Almost.
'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Apr 30, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two 30/30 third basemen and zero no hitters.
Crazy, that.
We've got ourselves a ball club, the Mets of New York town!
by kingcritical on Apr 30, 2009 1:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
David Wright's so good
Can’t wait ’til he stops slumping.
by TheBigStapler on Apr 30, 2009 1:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
And that's the thing.
Statistically, he’s been better this April than April 07 or April 08. And both of those Aprils gave way to MVP caliber seasons.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Apr 30, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he just "looks bad"
but I can’t really remember how he looked those other Aprils. Aside from the Ks, it’s prob just selective memory.
by jasondg on Apr 30, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or the fact that his swing has developed a significant uppercut.
And that he has pretty much eschewed hitting the the opposite field.
by SQUAD on Apr 30, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jeez, man, chillax. Do you remember last year?
Same story, same problem. Everyone was saying how he was becoming a “power and pull” type of hitter, and how it was ruining him. It didn’t ruin his 2008 season, did it?
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Apr 30, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you need to "chillax."
I was just making a statement. I’m not looking to trade him or anything; I’m sure he’ll eventually figure it out, level his swing off, and have a great season.
Just saying, anyone who wanted to know why his K rate has gone up, just look at his swing, it’s pretty terrible. He stopped looking oppo, he drops his back shoulder and has a serious uppercut, and he kind of sweeps the bat through the zone.
by SQUAD on Apr 30, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But that's what happens in slumps. I really believe he'll work the kinks out.
I mean, if it’s lasting into mid-May, by all means, I’ll enter the panic box with you.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Apr 30, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Panic Box?
I really don’t get it. I’m just pointing out how terrible his swing/approach is.
by SQUAD on May 1, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He looked bad
I remember very clearly wanting to hunt down a number of metsblog posters for doing the same thing they’re doing now. He was uppercutting then, he wasn’t taking quite as many pitches, but especially in 2007, he just couldn’t get anything behind his swing. David Wright’s April 2007 marked the beginning of the end for me and metsblog.
by Meddler on Apr 30, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha
Just posted nearly the same thing, except I remember people being more patient. Maybe that’s just my selective memory.
by TedBerg on Apr 30, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They were a bit more patient
There were definitely some nutjobs complaining to no end then though. He didn’t have a great second half in 2006 either. It wasn’t awful by any stretch, he just didn’t hit for much power after the break, and he wasn’t good at all in the playoffs. So people were feeling a little bit short with him already. It definitely wasn’t as ravenous, but considering the context (the organization was coming off its best season in years in 2007), I feel like it was pretty similar.
by Meddler on Apr 30, 2009 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it was because of the home run derby, remember
it ruined his career. He never recovered.
by cjmulrain on Apr 30, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's right
He tired himself out something awful in that first round.
by Meddler on Apr 30, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, now he's worse than David Eckstein.
He wouldn’t do something like that, he’d save his boundless, scraptastic energy for gameday.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Apr 30, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2007
He looked terrible in 2007 as well. That was coming off his quasi-drought that started after and was widely attributed to his home-run derby performance in 2006. The major difference, I think, was that Mets fans were a lot more patient with him then than they have been this year. You’d think a larger sample of awesome would make everyone more confident in his abilities, but apparently that’s not the case.
by TedBerg on Apr 30, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm hating Mets fans right now
Not you guys; just the more public, annoying ones. The ones who do the wave. The ones who boo DW. The ones who think “Everybody Clap Your Hands” is fun. Hate them.
by jasondg on Apr 30, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Apr 30, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they were slightly more patient
but not a whole lot. Take a read through this. You can even skip all the way through the stuff up until October of ’06, b/c everything before then is overwhelmingly positive. Then, it starts to read like this:
by cjmulrain on Apr 30, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL @ Mr. Sparkles.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Apr 30, 2009 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wigginton
sure could run over a catcher though.
by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Apr 30, 2009 2:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah he was like
a greased pig on the basepaths
by deadspy3 on Apr 30, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think
there’s a “large contingent” of fans who want to get rid of Wright, just the most pissed off/craziest ones feel a need to loudly express their views. People should stop getting so bent out of shape over it,
by Mount17 on Apr 30, 2009 2:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
rhetorical question
If the dregs of Mets fandom need to vent about the team, why not call for Manuel’s head? After last night’s Castro/Santos debacle, I think it would be justified.
What is never, ever justified under any circumstance is calling for dumping the 26-year-old perennial MVP candidate who just may end up being the greatest player in the history of the franchise when all is said and done.
2009 Mets: maybe its the Phillies turn to have a terrible bullpen?
by Greenpoint Ian on Apr 30, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
When all is said and done
I think he’s pretty close already. He’s probaby top three in terms of homegrown position players, and could be #1. And overall, what’s his competition? Piazza, Straw, Alfonzo, throw Reyes and Beltran up there, Keith, maybe Johnny-O. Obviously, you can’t yet compare him to some of the pitching greats, but I’ll stack him up against any position player the Mets have had.
by Meddler on Apr 30, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Apr 30, 2009 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love John Olerud
but Wright, at 26, has already had more solid years for the Mets than Olerud had.
by JoshNY on May 1, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Early 1980's
I was too young to be a Mets fan back then. but every one of these lists shows TERRIBLE results for 1980-1982. How BAD were those teams???
The 2009 NY Mets: WE GOT K-ROD! OMG, Putz, too! Sign Lowe! Lowe's a Brave. Sign Manny! Tim Redding, WTF? Sign Manny! Sheets or Perez? SHEETS! Perez?? Oh, Sheets is hurt -- good job, Minaya! WTF?! SIGN MANNY!
by ZaBlanc on Apr 30, 2009 2:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wright
If he’s traded, I’m done with this team. I’m serious, too.
by BlackOps on Apr 30, 2009 2:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What if they traded him straight up for Eckstein
and you stopped rooting for the Mets right before he led them to the World Series with his superior grit and shortness? Wouldn’t you be the dumb one?
/inanity
'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Apr 30, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it would be nearly impossible to trade him
and get equal value. trading wright is beyond absurd. and it only even makes a modicum of sense if you ignore salaries and the realities of baseball contracts. at least when people boo beltran i acknowledge that he got a mega deal contract and people expect him to produce. d right is still underpaid because he signed an extension pre arbitration years.
people need to quit popping the crazy pills.
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON. WE WANT THE MANSION NOT THE CONDO.
by kendynamo on Apr 30, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would be impossible to trade him and get equal value
it wouldn’t be impossible to trade him and get crap back, which I imagine is what most people worry about.
by Gina on Apr 30, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think I'd tend to agree. Him or Reyes would be pretty inexcusable.
I’d be pissed if Beltran was too, but his contract would not let that happen/ he at least isn’t a young superstar ENTERING his prime.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Apr 30, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would be pretty pissed if they traded Beltran.
His contract has become very reasonable and he is one of the best players in baseball.
by SQUAD on Apr 30, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously.
But I would still follow the Mets, I think.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Apr 30, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just one surprise.
I expected a lot more pre-1969 players on the 10 worst list. And where is the immortal Joe Foy (acquired from the Royals for Amos Otis—notorious trade)?
by madisonmetsfan on Apr 30, 2009 4:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I believe
there was a lot more platooning in the 60’s, and WAR is a cumulative stat, so the really bad players didn’t play enough to sink to the bottom. I haven’t done any research into this specifically, but I have done a lot of research on baseball history and the early Mets in general and IIRC platooning was very common around that time.
by cjmulrain on Apr 30, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's the over/under
on the number of those top 10 seasons belonging to David Wright by the end of his career?
by TheBigStapler on Apr 30, 2009 5:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah definitely
Its gotta be at least 7.5. He’s four for four so far.
by Meddler on Apr 30, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
David Wright has four full seasons
And the worst one of the three was still the 8th best season the Mets have had from a third baseman in their history. And at the time, it was the 5th best.
by Meddler on Apr 30, 2009 6:54 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
I had to rec this.
Because I feel this is the exact definition of why trading him would be headbangably stupid. I mean, the fact that this has even come up ANYWHERE is beyond absurd. Just post this as a comment, and if they have a modicum of common sense, they would be swayed.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Apr 30, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think...
Anyone that isn’t brain dead knows trading Wright is only going to hurt the team.
by dan_vision on May 1, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd tend to agree...
but there have been wayyyyy too many posts suggesting just that the past few days. Blah.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on May 1, 2009 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hubie. Wow.
I was pretty young then, but he was my favorite player and I totally cried when they traded him for Gary Carter. I had no recollection of him being a real liability.
by CurlyShuffle on Apr 30, 2009 11:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
These posts
= Awesome
I’m going to come here more often.
by dan_vision on May 1, 2009 4:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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