Omar's Big Blunder: Reds 8, Mets 6

by Eric Simon on Apr 9, 2009 4:13 PM EDT

Game Result

SB Nation Coverage

* Boxscore
* Amazin' Avenue Gamethread
* Red Reporter Gamethread

Recap

First 2009 start:

Pitcher	IP	H	R	ER	BB	K	Annual Salary
Oliver Perez	4.1	5	8	8	5	7	$12 million
Derek Lowe	8	2	0	0	0	4	$15 million

That is all.

Game Thread Roll Call

Nice job by zmanmetfan; his effort in the game thread embiggens us all.

Num	Name	# of Posts
1	zmanmetfan	135
2	LOUtheMETSfan	52
3	ZaBlanc	25
4	TheBigStapler	24
5	JamesK	23
6	SQUAD	23
7	deadspy3	22
8	jaronson5	20
9	JohnPeterson	17
10	samt	15

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Comments

So looking at gameday Perez had an awesome first two innings

What happened?

Also according to gameday he topped out at 90 mph… even this early in the season that’s not good. Also he was throwing a change up which pitch f/x said he didn’t throw much last year, but there was almost no difference between his change up and his fastball velocity.

by Gina on Apr 9, 2009 4:44 PM EDT reply actions

What happened

He was looking good early.

His – as usual – concentration?

by SupT on Apr 9, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions

The lead?

Once he had a 3-0 lead he fell apart. Ollie is at his best in close games…and it wasn’t that close anymore. If its not Phillies, Braves, or Yankees, he’ll go into cruise control.

"What position do you play?"
"I bat third."

by Preach19 on Apr 9, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions

So, by your logic

When the Mets tied it at 4-4, Perez should have pitched at his best but instead he sucked. I guess a tie game isn’t close enough for Perez

by Sokojoe on Apr 9, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm afraid

Ollie isn’t an easy ballplayer to explain. But things do snowball. I’ve been one of those who defended Ollie from the beginning, from his trade in 2006. But it gets tougher and tougher. Still, outside of Santana, I’d want him going against the Phillies.

"What position do you play?"
"I bat third."

by Preach19 on Apr 10, 2009 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions

I believe you mean " concetration."

by anonymous on Apr 9, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions

Heh

His consistency left something to be desired, also.

by SupT on Apr 9, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions

Gary Keith or Ron

made a great point early on, when Perez was breezing through the first two innings. He had really slowed his mechanics down, he was being as deliberate as I’d ever seen him, and as a result, even though the velo wasn’t there, he was commanding his fastball and getting nice snap on his breaking ball. It was too bad though, because that point got lost in the third inning, when Ollie noticeably starting speeding his body up and trying to force the ball. His shoulder was flying open and he could only put the ball on the right side of the plate (inside to a lefty) and his breaking ball lost its good snap. I was waiting for Ronnie to mention how much faster he was moving and how much less deliberate he was being mechanically, but it didn’t happen. Really though, it only matters if Dan Warthen noticed. I said this in the gameday thread, this would be a great video to sit Ollie down and force him to watch and critique himself, most notably on what he did right in the first two innings and what he did wrong in the second two.

by Mark Himmelstein on Apr 9, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

That's the least the Mets could ask of a guy making effing $12 million

by James Kannengieser on Apr 10, 2009 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions

Do you plan on comparing Lowe and Perez every step of the way? It's going to get quite annoying...

Yes, we know Lowe might have been the better option. But he’s older and had an ERA over 4 outside of Dodger stadium during his time with the Dodgers. Meanwhile, Perez has had success in big games, has better stuff, and is younger. Give it a rest

by Metzfan22 on Apr 9, 2009 4:45 PM EDT reply actions

Perez had an ERA of like 8 outside of the NL East

And I’ve still never understood where the stuff argument from Perez comes from, well I understand where it came from but I don’t understand why people continue to use it.

by Gina on Apr 9, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah

Its not so valid if he can’t dial it up past 90, but his breaking ball is still filthy when he’s throwing it right, and he misses lots of bats even when he’s off. I think that’s where it comes from at this point.

by Mark Himmelstein on Apr 9, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions

not trying to be hostile but you know what's getting old?

people complaining about other people comparing Lowe and Perez. It’s the 800 pound ape in the room people. Kind of hard to ignore it.

by Endys Game on Apr 9, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't care about stuff if you can't throw it over the plate.

By the way, you know who else they say had “stuff”? Victor Zambrano.

We've got ourselves a ball club, the Mets of New York town!

by kingcritical on Apr 9, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah Daniel Cabrera has better "stuff" than Perez

And it hasn’t really worked out for him yet.

by Gina on Apr 9, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions

anybody who makes it to the major leagues

has “stuff”. Or is Jamie Moyer. actually I think Moyer had stuff when he first came up in 1986!!

by Endys Game on Apr 9, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions

and...

Dick Pole

by jasondg on Apr 9, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions

Way to steer the conversation back on course

It was getting away from us a bit there.

by Eric Simon on Apr 9, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions

Happy to help

by jasondg on Apr 9, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions

Give Dick Pole 15 minutes with Oliver Perez

And something will happen

by James Kannengieser on Apr 9, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

rec'd

for somehow tying this back to V Zambrano.

by jasondg on Apr 9, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions

dick pole, eh?

i’m late to the bit so maybe this was covered but it reminds me of the name of that olympic chairman or something guy, Dick Pound. also, it sounds so made up, but i hade a friend in college who swore his dad was friends with a guy name Dick Tiddeys.

HELLO HELLO MR WILPON. WE WANT THE MANSION NOT THE CONDO.

by kendynamo on Apr 9, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions

combine Dick Pole with stuff

and watch out!!

by Endys Game on Apr 9, 2009 5:13 PM EDT reply actions

little slow on the draw with the dick pole comment

by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Apr 9, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions

nice use of exclamation points though

by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Apr 9, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't find the comparison between Perez and Lowe annoying at all

I like that AA uses things like “facts” and “evidence” to support its arguments. These things suggest that Lowe is a better pitcher than Perez.

I love that Eric et al. demand that people use actual evidence to support their views on the Mets. There’s nothing wrong with demanding that Minaya use the same sort of evidence when he makes decisions about the Mets’ roster.

by ams258 on Apr 9, 2009 5:26 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

yeah but the flip side to that

is so far its been one start each, so we’re talking teeny tiny sample size. what will definitley get tedious is if every time the each get a start someone throws the lines up for just that one game as ‘evidence’ for one picther’s contract being a better deal for the other.

i think eric makes a good point in that it didnt take long for lowe and perez to both demonstrate exactly what a lot of people on this board have been screaming all off season long, but conversely, or maybe just additionally, i would also not like to see an endless nitpicking debate to continue throughout the course of the year.

HELLO HELLO MR WILPON. WE WANT THE MANSION NOT THE CONDO.

by kendynamo on Apr 9, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions

I can understand thinking it's too early to complain or ridiculous to nitpick after a start

But the problem with Perez is that he’s basically done nothing to alleviate any of the worries since he was given the contract. Between his poor games with Mexico being out of shape when he came back the loss of velocity. It’s hard not to expect people to nitpick when so far there’s been nothing to believe every problem that was obvious even months before the contract was signed is going to change, if anything now we’ve just got more problems to worry about with him.

by Gina on Apr 9, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree with this

also, it’s done. Over. Derek Lowe is a Brave, Oliver Perez is a Met, and there’s absolutely nothing any of us can do to change that. If we’re gonna keep picking at that wound, why don’t we go ahead and complain every time Vlad Guerrero hits a homerun or Scott Kazmir strikes someone out or ARod sleeps with a woman 15 years older than him.

by cjmulrain on Apr 9, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

We can demand accountability from our front office

Obviously Omar isn’t regularly perusing met’s blogs but fans outrage can add fuels to media fire which can directly lead to heat on the front office, see DePodesta in LA, although in that case the fans and media were just idiots.

by Gina on Apr 9, 2009 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions

cj

just wait until the first time Ollie goes head-to-head with Lowe. heads will explode.

'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Apr 9, 2009 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions

well put

by Endys Game on Apr 9, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions

LEFT HANDERS TAKE LONGER . . .

Ollie is still young. Randy Johnson and Sandy Koufax were both inconsistent until they were around 29/30. They both had poor K / BB ratios and inconsistent ERAs for the first several years of their careers. Let’s not give up on Ollie yet. It may not be the popular opinion but I think by the end of year three of Ollie’s deal, we’ll be looking at what a bargain we got him for instead of wasting all that extra money on and old and washed up Lowe. One start does not make a season or a career. I’m not worried.

by 86_revisited on Apr 10, 2009 8:46 AM EDT reply actions

support for the argument

Sandy Koufax – http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=23910&context=pitching

Randy Johnson – http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=2131

by 86_revisited on Apr 10, 2009 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions

Scott Boras?

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Apr 10, 2009 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions

I can't find the link

but the “lefties mature later” is a myth. Someone at THT or BP looked at it. You can find just as many righties who matured later (Derek Lowe, for example…)

by James Kannengieser on Apr 10, 2009 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions

it's probably a ratio thing

there’s less lefties total, so the lefties that have matured later stick out way more than the righties who mature later. But there’s also plenty of lefties who didn’t take very long to mature at all: Steve Carlton and Warren Spahn, for example. Or for a more recent example, that guy who pitches for Tampa whose name I won’t mention.

by cjmulrain on Apr 10, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions