Manuel Managing Report Card: Game 37
Yes, it’s come to this. Jerry Manuel’s managing has become such a hot button topic that we need a running log.
STARTING LINEUP: D
-I’m not completely outraged that Omir Santos gets this start, because Castro has a history of getting injured when he's overused, but I still think Castro should get more playing time.
-Gary Sheffield should never hit ahead of David Wright, Wouldn’t you rather have Wright up with 2 out and a man in scoring position in the first? Wouldn’t you rather have Wright up with 2 in scoring position and no out in the eighth? If they wanna walk him, fine. Let them walk him.
-Alex Cora should never hit leadoff. I don’t care how hot he is. He’s still Alex Cora, of the career .315 OBP.
-Ignore the fact that Fernando Tatis actually has first base experience and Jeremy Reed doesn’t. Which of these hitters would you rather have in your lineup? Jeremy “.684 career OPS” Reed with a 30 point platoon advantage, or Fernando “.793 career OPS” Tatis even-handed? If you said the first one, odds are likely that you are actually Jerry Manuel and not a rational human being.
BULLPEN MANAGEMENT: B-
There isn’t much to talk about here for once since Pelfrey gave a solid effort, but I would’ve preferred to see Takahashi go two innings since he had a pretty effortless 7th. In Manuel’s defense, Sean Green does need to get back on track and down two against two righties, Sandoval, and another righty if anyone gets on isn’t a bad spot to start.
IN-GAME TACTICS: F
Lordy, where to start.
-I’ll give Manuel the benefit of the doubt on the first inning bunt with Castillo. It is right to sacrifice early SOMETIMES in games that will probably be low-scoring, and Pelfrey and Cain were both pretty decent, balls and balks aside. AT&T/Pac Bell/Giants/Corporate ballpark is also a pretty fair pitchers park.
-I know this partially falls on Omar Minaya, but is it sadder that a) Fernando Tatis came in to play shortstop or b) that given our roster’s construction, he might actually be the best guy for the job? Castillo doesn’t have the range for it, and there is no way you want to risk Wright over there even though he may make more sense than Tatis. Sad on all counts.
-As far as the balk calls, why is he so passive about arguing these things? One of Earl Weaver’s axioms is that the manager needs to get out there and argue so that if anyone gets thrown out, it’s the manager. Instead, he had a half-hearted conversation with the crew chief. His arguing was so obviously faked that it looked like he belonged on an MTV dating show.
-Shading David Wright deep and towards the hole when Sandoval was up didn't pay off for the Mets, since he hit through that hole anyway and then dropped down a bunt on a stunned Wright. Sandoval has already done that once this year, and while I’m not entirely sure that Manuel should get blamed for a once-a-month thing, Wright probably could’ve been in a little shorter.
-Intentionally walking the bases loaded down two was a disastrous move, and the Mets are extremely fortunate that it worked out. At that point, you’re saying you have no confidence in your team’s ability to score three runs even though they’d been getting plenty of baserunners against Cain. If Rowand had cranked one down the line or into the gap, the game would’ve gone from one that you can still tie with a grand slam to a game that you’re realistically out of. Manuel was very lucky here. As Lou Brown said to Willie Mays Hayes, “nice walk Manuel, don’t ever (bleep)ing do it again.”
-Angel Pagan pinch-hitting on his second day back from a year long injury, with the bases loaded, when Ramon Castro is on the bench. There are no words to describe how bad this was. At this point, I almost wish the Mets would just let Castro go. We obviously don’t utilize him right, maybe some team that actually knows what its doing can try that. Then, to make things all better, he pinch-hit with Castro in the bottom of the ninth anyway. Abysmal.
OVERALL: D-.
On the bright side, I’ve decided that even though Manuel was awful in this game, he was still better than Steve Phillips was at announcing.
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Jerry’s WAR has to be like -2.5
by James Kannengieser on May 17, 2009 11:34 PM EDT reply actions
Haha
He is definitely more pleasant to listen to than Phillips is. He does have that going for him.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on May 17, 2009 11:53 PM EDT reply actions
Sean Green
are we sure that wasn’t someone else pitching for him tonight? The Giants’ offense sucks, but that was definitely his best appearance of the season. Hopefully he can build on that.
I agree
He didn’t look half bad in yesterday’s game either.
"But it's not over yet, everybody thinks it over, but if we can just get the Earth to reverse rotation...this thing can be played again. So there you go, New York Mets......motherf*ckers." - Jon Stewart
Channeling Herm Edwards, eh?
- Rivers McCown
by riversmccown on May 18, 2009 1:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I can't take it anymore
I said this repeatedly during the last days of the Randolph administration: I’d prefer the team to lose a few games and end up in the middle of the pack because they’re going nowhere with Manuel at the helm. I’d prefer, say, 3rd place on July 15th, 8 games back of the Phillies, with ANY OTHER MANAGER EVER than being tied for first with Manuel managing. Let his sorry ass go out that door, and let him take Omar fucking Minaya and Omir Santos with him.
God, if we could only have Paul DePodesta or Keith Law; Bobby Valentine or Davey Johnson or Ken Oberkfell or hell, even Grady Little, what this team could accomplish. I just know Omar/Jerry won’t accomplish anything more than crippling failure.
I know ANY SINGLE ONE OF US could manage a roster and a team far better. Fuck Jerry Manuel, fuck Omar Minaya, and fuck Fred Wilpon for not understanding this. Why couldn’t he want to replicate the other owner across town, who would fire managers and GMs routinely, without cause? Well, we have more than just cause. Something needs to happen, and it needs to happen soon.
A: New York Mets, 2009
Q: What is the angriest fan base of a first place team in professional sports history
Ha yeah
I mean, as much as I think the talent on this team makes up for Jerry’s, um, interesting managing, I’ll take first place with a mediocre manager and a talented team over anything else. I also don’t want the Wilpons to act like the Steinbrenners; I’d rather they just made better decisions.
And, for the record, I can pretty much guarantee that I couldn’t manage or GM this team any better than the chaps currently in place. That’s a conceit I refuse to entertain.
"The definition of edge is going out there and getting a few wins, and then all of a sudden you don’t have to worry about anyone talking about edge anymore," Wright said. "That's a thing in the past. Go ask Omar about that."
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on May 18, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Heh, agreed
the problem being that no one would listen to you, or me, or any of us.
From a tactical standpoint, though, I’ll take you over Jerry.
You're assuming that the ends justify the means.
When we haven’t even seen the ends yet.
The Mets aren’t winning because of Manuel, they are winning in spite of him.
- Rivers McCown
by riversmccown on May 18, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
No I totally agree that the talent is outplaying the manager
I guess I’m just saying that, in my own internal struggle of “would I rather see the Mets dive-bomb for a couple of months and see Jerry fired or continue to win in spite of his shenanigans,” I can’t bring myself to root for this team to lose.
"The definition of edge is going out there and getting a few wins, and then all of a sudden you don’t have to worry about anyone talking about edge anymore," Wright said. "That's a thing in the past. Go ask Omar about that."
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on May 18, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah, well that makes two of us.
- Rivers McCown
by riversmccown on May 18, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree, it kind of sucks though
We continue to be good despite the idiocy of our gm/managers because of the talent, but they manage to hold us back from being world series type team good. So it’s like we’re stuck in a borderline play-off team cycle where we’re too good for anyone to get fired and not good enough to actually accomplish anything.
This is a little too dramatic.
I’d love to get a better manager and GM, but I don’t really want someone named “meddler” running my team. :)
Nah, you guys trashing this need to give him some leeway, it’s hard to be completely rational after a move like Pagan for Murphy.
- Rivers McCown
by riversmccown on May 18, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey now, that hurts :(
Kidding, I wouldn’t want someone named Meddler running my team either. But the fact that such a large percentage of us can all agree against these real-time in game decisions as they’re happening or long term GM tactics is still an awful indication.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on May 18, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Although I am probably in the minority here, walking the bases loaded in the 6th was fine with me.
After the balk, the two slowest guys on the team on second and third. This means that a single was scoring one, and a double was scoring two. Schierholtz isn’t exactly the fastest guy on the planet, so putting him on wouldn’t mean three runs with a double. Rowand is not a homerun threat (109 HRs in 3696 PAs) or extra base guy (.393 SLG this season, .451 career) and pelfrey with his two-seamer means he was a DP candidate (grounded in five already this year), so long as it wasn’t hit to Tatis.
Well you spelled out another reason I wasn't comfortable walking the bases for me
Assuming the double play when you have a 3B playing SS.
It’s a relatively horrible move to intentionally walk anyone, but in that situation you are asking for trouble.
Good point on Pelfrey being a big GB pitcher, though.
- Rivers McCown
by riversmccown on May 18, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I was totally OK with the move, too.
Pelfrey is a GB pitcher, Rowand is not a big extra base guy, and the Mets were getting the benefit of force out at first. I also did not mind Manuel not arguing balks and I actually thought his bullpen management yesterday was surprisingly excellent (Not using Putz, Parnell, Feliciano, Frankie, while giving a confidence-boost to Green). However, the Pagan pinch-hit is enough for an F for in-game management.
My problems with this move came more from the game scenario
Down 2, a base hit blows the game wide open.
Schierholtz is a career .736 OPS hitter. He’s not shown to be any better than Rowand. Setting up the force doesn’t matter with no speed on the bases.
Now, if it were say, Albert Pujols…I’d entertain that. But not for Nate Schierholtz.
- Rivers McCown
by riversmccown on May 18, 2009 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Manuel replacing Murphy for Pagan was completely ass backwards!!!!
Murphy is a solid hitter that works deep into the count, who is batting .375 against lefties and he’s replaced by a MINOR LEAGUE PLAYER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nothing can justify that move and lets be serious, Reyes is not hurt he was benched. You can’t tell me that Reyes couldn’t pinch hit last night but Manuel says to Ed Coleman that Reyes will play tonight? So how can he play tonight and not pinch hit last night?
MAKES NO SENSE.
Exactly
I definitely believe Reyes was hurt, but this brings up another point, after the game we heard Reyes as okay “to do anything but run”. So why couldn’t hit instead of Pagan?
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on May 18, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
personally i would prefer him not to hit if he can't run
but I also would have preferred murphy stay in the batter’s box or, if you must pinch hit, use castro.
Explain how Reyes is healthy enough to play tonight but could not play or pinch hit last night? Manuel said Reyes will play right after
The game! Not this morning or this afternoon. He knew Reyes was healthy enough to play before the game last night!!! Explain that?
None of us are doctors
At least, I’m not, and if you are, you haven’t gotten a close look at the man’s leg. But four games for discipline? Not even Jerry is that convoluted. I refuse to believe it. And with Jose’s legs, you take ever precaution you can.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on May 18, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Jerry can only get info before or during the game from the medical staff?
Do you actually know what is going on in jerry’s head? How do you know if a trainer told him after the game, “you know, reyes probably would have been okay to play short.”? You don’t know that as much as anyone else doesn’t know about grit, leadership, passion or anything else people rail on in this blog because you are not in the clubhouse.
Conspriacy theories are nice and keep people interested, but, until there is reason to believe otherwise, you’re barking up the wrong tree.
I'm not a doctor. I'm a fan and I follow what happens to my team
Ed Coleman taped Jerry Manuel before the game saying that Reyes is day to day. After the game Manuel said Reyes is available to play Monday night. Now maybe medical miracles occur where a player is healed by sitting on the bench but I don’t buy that. No one needs a conspiracy to use common sense. I don’t know what reports trainers give during games and no one can say if a trainer did or didn’t give manuel one during the game. Secondly, if reyes was hurt so badly then why did he pinch hit reyes in an earlier game? You don’t make sense! I’m going to trust the words I’ve heard on the radio out of manuels own mouth. If reyes doesn’t play tonight then you’re right but if he plays then how could get healed in 24 hrs?
Um, maybe he wasn't completely healed
Maybe he’s just a little banged up and coming off of three straight wins, Manuel was just playing it conservative? I find that much easier to believe than a four game disciplinary action against one of your best players.
The injury never seemed THAT serious, but non-serious injuries can become serious if you don’t handle them properly. A great example, here’s what Will Carroll had to say last week about Carlos Delgado:
His most recent problem is the result of a cascade; after being hit on the knee by a pitch, it threw his gait off just enough that it triggered the pain/spasm cycle, and worse, it began to swell
Interestingly enough, he also noted the following about Reyes today:
The Mets held Jose Reyes out for a fourth straight game with a calf strain. Many sources say that this is also serving as a mental break for Reyes, as he’s been butting heads with the coaching staff.
So while it sounds like there may be some issue between Reyes and the staff, seeing as its something that hasn’t spilled out into the media and Reyes hasn’t seemed particularly disturbed by anything that happened, I have to believe that at worst, this is some combination of things. Though this statement by Will Carroll certainly lends credence to your theory.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on May 18, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I give Jerry the benefit of the doubt on Reyes too.
They probably decided pre-game not to play him on Sunday. It’s not being evil and sneaky.
- Rivers McCown
by riversmccown on May 18, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not a doctor either
but judging from what you said, it is completely reasonable to think that he was fine to pinch hit on friday and not fine to play on saturday and sunday. Isn’t that what day to day is? The fact that some days he can be better than other days? I don’t think he can be healed in 24 hrs, in fact I have no idea what is going on, but just because reyes can hit one day and be ruled out the next two days doesn’t automatically mean that jerry is benching reyes.
Look, I think we are all disappointed at the fact that we have been told three straight days that reyes is fine and then he doesn’t show up in the lineup. I know I have. And even with the anti-jerry sentiment around here, he is at least making moves that he thinks, bad judgement aside, will make the club better. So, when Tatis comes in at short, I have to think that jerry believes that reyes can not physically play at the level he is accustomed to and not punishing him.
Tatis playing short made me think Reyes was going to be out for a longer period of time
But we will see. I think Jerry talks circles around himself and gets into trouble. Tatis playing short and pagan pinch hitting makes it seem like Reyes is DL bound. Then to play him tonight would open up a ton of questions and really expose Jerry. I hope you guys are right, I really do
While I agree that it is fishy
Here’s to hoping that reyes doesn’t end up on the DL!
I was wrong....
Just heard that Tatis is at SS tonight. So Manuel isn’t totally crazy but this doesn’t look good for Reyes’ not hitting the DL
BP's C. Kahrl on Jerry -- have to agree
Questioner recounted some of Jerry’s greatest hits and asked, “Is he really this bad?”
He was, and he will be. That the Mets were impressed with him was proof they didn’t remember that this was what happened last time around: Manuel aced his interview, says all the right things in a conference room, and then handicapped his ballclub with his fascination with ways of insinuating himself into the ballgame. I know it means something to Mets fans if I label the man “Torborgian,” but that’s what you’re working with, with a dash of braggadocio to spice things up a bit.
Yup
She’s done that before too. I remember back when he first took over and said something particularly outlandish, I wasn’t particularly phased by at at the time, not having the cache of issues with him that I do now. But her criticism was something I was surprised by at the time, but also something I always went back to the more and more fed up with Manuel I’ve become, and its at the point now where I completely understand where she’s coming from.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on May 18, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Manuel's Line-ups
Are officially starting to get to me. They never make any sense. With a lefhander on the mound tonight, here is your absolute no-brainer line-up, assuming Reyes is playing tonight (which if his leg is attached, is pretty much guaranteed with Cora potentially on the shelf).
Reyes SS
Castillo 2B
Wright 3B
Beltran CF
Sheffield LF
Tatis 1B
Castro C
Church RF
Redding P
Am I wrong? I can’t wait to see what this mental giant throws out there tonight.
I'd flip Beltran and wright around
but I agree this should be the lineup
I just like breaking up Wright, Sheffield, Tatis and Castro...
with a Switch Hitter, too many righties in a row for late in the game.
I really don't have a problem hitting Wright 5th
Because he’s been so on fire lately, so there’s no real reason to move him at this point
I would just rather he be on fire in the 3rd or 4th spot.
But if you are going to play Sheff, I like the protection for him…a little.
By Jerry-logic
Probably Angel Pagan.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on May 18, 2009 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions
OMG
He actually did it. He has Castillo hitting second, but Pagan is hitting leadoff. This is too much, its just becoming intolerable.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on May 18, 2009 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions
You gotta give the guy this...
when he finds somone he likes, he sticks with them.
For our sake, I just wished he liked some GOOD players.
Angel Pagan is hitting ahead of Castro?
Good lord.
- Rivers McCown
by riversmccown on May 18, 2009 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Under the circumstances, I'm thinking this...
Castillo 2b
Beltran CF
Wright 3b
Sheffield LF
Castro C
Murphy 1b
Tatis SS
Church RF
oooo I don't know if I like beltran or castro that high
I’d prefer Murph two, beltran 3, wright four, sheff five, tatis six and castro seven. But then again, with this combination of players, this lineup would be just as good as any other one, IMO
I just love Beltran in the 2-hole
Always have. He’s just too valuable to put there on a consistant basis.
See I don't understand why he's to valuable to be put there
You’re best hitters should get the most plate appearances right? Then why not put them in the spots that get the most plate appearances?
by Gina on May 18, 2009 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
But....but....RBIs
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on May 18, 2009 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Team stats > Individual stats
- Rivers McCown
by riversmccown on May 18, 2009 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Team RBI = Team Runs. Individuals RBI's =/= team runs
If Beltran scores 120 runs and knocks in 75, that doesn’t make him any less integral to the teams scoring.
- Rivers McCown
by riversmccown on May 19, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't disagree
but with the crap-fest that is the Mets lineup after Beltran and Wright, I’d prefer Beltran in spots where he can drive guys in. Beltran is more likely to get extra base hits than Castillo or Cora or anyone not named David, so I’d prefer him in the 3 hole so that if one of the top two guys gets on, there’s a better chance of scoring a run with a Beltran extra base hit.
Either way, though, I don’t think Beltran in the 2 or 3 hole is really gonna make too big a difference. Just as long as he’s not hitting lower than 4th. Same can be said of Wright, which we know Jerry is f-ing up.
I'd like him there on occasion (like tonight)
but you don’t pay a guy $19mm to get on base. We need him driving guys in. Can’t fault your logic though.
I think we're paying him cause of his awesome defense and hitting skills not to drive guys in
If you have either him or Wright hitting 5th then there gonna come up to often with no one on base, and no one you can depend on behind them to drive them in.
Yup...in no way shape or form should either of them hit 5th.
They need to be 3-4 everytime and if you need a spark, throw Voltron in the 2-hole. With Delgado out though, I think we really need him in a run producing spot.
If we had a deeper lineup...
Delgado and one more masher, I would absolutely put him in the 2-hole consistently.
I loved your comments
I might be alone here but I am not convinced David Wright is the clutch hitter he used to be. With that in mind i would rather see Sheffield ahead of him. I know that is sacrilege to hear but when I see him up this year in a big spot I do not expect anything. At Friday’s game we predicted the K’s and the only question was called or swinging.
He has a tremendous amount of talent, he is a great face of the franchise but something happened after that HR derby that diminished his fortitude with 2 strikes and in clutch situations. If he gets that back we will make the playoffs and we will be a force in them.
"when they find the center of the universe, i know quite a few people that are going to be upset it isn't them" dmitchell624
Just because I am tired of reading/listening to this god-damn viewpoint
David Wright’s “clutch” stats in 2009:
Situation OPS/OPS+
2 outs, RISP .805/ 112
Late & close .975/ 167
Tie game .710/ 93
Within 1 R .856/ 128
Within 2 R .875/ 135
Within 3 R .919/ 145
Within 4 R .922/ 146
Margin >4 R .933/ 139
RISP .944/ 144
And some others:
Situation OPS/OPS+
Home .797/ 105
Away 1.057/ 190
Two strikes .638/ 135
So, he’s awful in a tied game (and by awful, I mean slightly under the league average). He’s okay at home and with 2 out and RISP. Otherwise he has had a phenomenal season in the clutch and in 2 strike situations despite all of his strikeouts. If you want Jeter, root for the yankees. If you want perfection, stop watching baseball. Seriously, this is a sport where you are considered successful, as a hitter, if you fail seven times out of ten.
If you want to, rebut me,but please, read this page before you do.
This is Wright’s splits for this year.

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