Off Day WAR: The Best And Worst Seasons By Mets Left Fielders
by James Kannengieser on May 28, 2009 1:30 PM EDT
in Stats
52 comments
Left field is next in the off day wins above replacement (WAR) series. Here are the top 10 seasons by Mets left fielders, per Sean Smith's WAR database:
| Rank | Year | Player | WAR |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 1996 | Bernard Gilkey | 8.0 |
| 2 | 1969 | Cleon Jones | 7.5 |
| 3 | 2005 | Cliff Floyd | 4.9 |
| 4 | 1988 | Kevin McReynolds | 4.6 |
| 5 | 1971 | Cleon Jones | 3.9 |
| 6 | 1990 | Kevin McReynolds | 3.8 |
| 7 | 1989 | Kevin McReynolds | 3.5 |
| 8 | 2003 | Cliff Floyd | 3.5 |
| 9 | 1976 | John Milner | 3.4 |
| 10 | 1968 | Cleon Jones | 3.2 |
And the bottom 10:
| Rank | Year | Player | WAR |
|---|---|---|---|
| 38 | 1986 | George Foster | 0.0 |
| 39 | 1993 | Vince Coleman | 0.0 |
| 40 | 1973 | Cleon Jones | -0.1 |
| 41 | 1998 | Bernard Gilkey | -0.1 |
| 42 | 1995 | Joe Orsulak | -0.4 |
| 43 | 2002 | Roger Cedeno | -0.4 |
| 44 | 1982 | George Foster | -0.7 |
| 45 | 1964 | George Altman | -0.9 |
| 46 | 1981 | Lee Mazzilli | -0.9 |
| 47 | 2001 | Benny Agbayani | -1.1 |
Some quick thoughts:
- Bernard Gilkey's 1996 season was ridiculous, and it matches David Wright's 2007 for the most valuable season in team history. Gilkey also has the biggest gap between most and least valuable seasons, at 8.1 WAR.
- Cliff Floyd is the man.
- The Kevin McReynolds era was slightly before my time, but almost everything I've read implies that he was regarded as lazy and didn't care about winning, despite his solid performance. Sounds like Carlos Beltran!
- Before I learned that there's more to evaluating baseball players than batting average and stolen bases, I thought Roger Cedeno was pretty awesome. Apparently Steve Phillips did too, as he gave Cedeno a 4 year, $18 million contract following a replacement level season. Then again, Cedeno was part of the trade for Mike Hampton, who the Mets indirectly swapped for Wright, so maybe Cedeno had some value after all.
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Bernard Gilkey?!?!?!?!?
I mean, I liked the guy but really? He had the best season by a Mets LFer? That’s amazing, I love this stat!
I, too, was too young for him but through discussions with older mets fans, the biggest knock against McReynolds would be hit better than .400 for like a month and then hit under the mendoza line for the reminder of the year. So, he would carry the team for a bit and then he was basically worthless the rest of the year.
by meigs1414 on May 28, 2009 1:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hardly
That sounds more like a typical Darryl Strawberry season to me.
"It's Father's Day today at Shea, so to all you fathers out there, Happy Birthday." -- Ralph Kiner
by dissento on May 28, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It seems you're right
McReynolds always had one OUTSTANDING month (like OPS > .950) and had normal months, not worthless months. The lesson here is always check baseball-reference before making a statement like that.
still shocked by gilkey though.
by meigs1414 on May 28, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joe Orsulak!
Haven’t thought about him in over a decade.
by Zwill on May 28, 2009 1:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I was just about to post that
"It's Father's Day today at Shea, so to all you fathers out there, Happy Birthday." -- Ralph Kiner
by dissento on May 28, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kevin McReynolds
Easily in the Top 5 of most underrated Mets of all time.
by Eric Simon on May 28, 2009 1:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This screams
a whole separate post. Not sure how you could statistically judge it, though!
by TheBigStapler on May 28, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
gibson/mcreynolds/strawberry in 1988
In 1988, Gibson won the mvp. Strawberry I think may have deserved it. McReynolds was in the discussion though, and some NY sportwriters I believe suggested that McReynolds deserved it over Straw. The whole idea of first round pick, doesn’t really have a passion for the game, not very nice to sportwriters thing picked up steam in later years. Just my recollection.
by wobatus on May 28, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
It went Gibson, Straw then Mcreynolds in the balloting. Gibson 13 first place votes, Straw 7, Mcreynolds 4. McReynolds didn’t have a great obp. .330s. Almost slugged .500. But I think he carried them briefly when Stawberry was cold. He had 18 assists and was 21-21 stealiing.
Gibson had about a 10 point higher oba then straw, but straw well outslugged gibson. Led the league in homers with 39.
by wobatus on May 28, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gibson 7.2 war in '88
Straw 6.0. I suppose Gibson did deserve it.
by wobatus on May 28, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
McReynolds...
perception-wise he was also hurt by having good seasons in the mini deadball 1988-1990 period…in Shea. For what it’s worth, during his Mets years (1987-1991 excluding 94), BBRef lists his AIR ratings as 102, 85, 86, 98, 93. Made what were actually some really good numbers look very….average.
by mookstra2 on May 28, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the real problem with McReynolds I believe is illuminated in The Worst Team Money Could Buy
McReynolds was very good at baseball, but he did not at all love the game of baseball. To him, it was just a job, like flipping hamburgers or lawyering or something. From what I recall, he would rather have been fishing in Arkansas.
One thing I remember as a kid was that McReynolds had this reputation for taking a shower in like two minutes (still seems crazy to me today, since I’m one for a half-hour steamer wherever I can). I believe that in the book the authors explain that he took two-minute showers because that enabled him to escape the clubhouse before reporters were allowed in.
That’s how much he hated all the ancillary stuff that went with baseball and being a ballplayer. He had this crazy gift, and to him it just didn’t mean very much.
I really liked KM when I was 10 (that also happened to be his best season, go figure). And perhaps I can appreciate his on-the-field contributions more right now. But because that 10-year-old still lives inside of me somewhere, I say, “Fuck you, Kevin McReynolds. A million kids would die to be you, but you were no hero.”
I hope the fishing is good these days for that bastard.
We've got ourselves a ball club, the Mets of New York town!
by kingcritical on May 28, 2009 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I feel ya there.
But then again, isn’t that the “argument” against Dunn? That he doesn’t love baseball?
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on May 28, 2009 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that may be the argument against Dunn
And it may be true or it may not—I really don’t know anything about his philosophy or his personal life.
What I’m talking about here is a specific instance: the sad realization I had as a 27-year-old (or whatever I was at the time I read the book) that a childhood hero couldn’t give a crap about his awesome natural abilities or even understand what those abilities could mean to so many people.
I’m not saying every ballplayer has to love the game and be “talking about the game” all the time. I’m just saying that there’s a beauty and mystery to the game, especially when you’re a kid, and it sucks when that is wrecked for you by the fact that baseball is a business.
Sorry to get all sappy, but I’ll stand by and defend these comments here if necessary.
We've got ourselves a ball club, the Mets of New York town!
by kingcritical on May 28, 2009 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, no, I'm not disagreeing with you. I agree it's important.
I’m just making a point that, while I think in this instance it applies to McReynolds, you can’t always be sure if the image that’s portrayed of the player is accurate. Like, from everything you see in the media about Dunn, executives talk about him as if he doesn’t care about baseball. Not to be rude to his employers, but if I was employed on the Reds and was as good of a baseball player as Dunn, I might not give 3000% every play too. I don’t even think it applies to McReynolds, especially since he was on the team during those late 80’s years, when we were winning. But again, it’s just always hard to make a definitive decision on whether or not a player really does not care, because we’re not psychologists. But if a player doesn’t care, I probably would resent him a bit as well.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on May 28, 2009 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I might resent him
but if I were a GM (say, Omar Minaya evaluating Adam Dunn), it would be my job to not let that resentment interfere with my ability to evaluate his ability objectively.
by JoshNY on May 28, 2009 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
As a baseball executive, I’d want him on my team. As a fan, eh.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on May 28, 2009 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And again, this is McReynolds we're talking about here, not Dunn.
I think the “Dunn hates baseball” rhetoric is a big pile of horseshit.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on May 28, 2009 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get the feeling too
I think it’s based on his non-Eckstein approach to baseball (K a lot, walk a lot, not field particularly well, all of which makes him appear lazy). From what I gather, Dunn is a very nice, laid-back kind of guy that gets along well with everyone. Just because he doesn’t have the Paul O’Neill demeanor (thank god) doesn’t mean he doesn’t care about the game.
Somehow, a chain of events unfolded that put Steve Phillips in a professional broadcast booth Sunday night so he could rip Carlos Beltran. Try to explain that in any other terms.
by Greenpoint Ian on May 29, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
true.
We've got ourselves a ball club, the Mets of New York town!
by kingcritical on May 28, 2009 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, we're on the same page here.
My point is that as an adult, I have a much different understanding of the game than I did when I was a kid. But my memories of baseball as a kid are still special, and they can be spoiled by things like learning that Kevin McReynolds hated his job. And that’s life, but it still sucks.
We've got ourselves a ball club, the Mets of New York town!
by kingcritical on May 28, 2009 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe he hated
just the talking to reporters stuff
or being called out az lazy even though he went 21-21 stealing bases and threw out 18 runners and maybe thought he knew a little more about how to play then sportswriters
or maybe he loved the game as a kid, but his dad made him play, was a bad little league dad, and he grew to hate it.
he must have loved it to a degree, he was so damn good.
But althoough I had been reading the Baseball Abstract for a while, knew McReynolds was pretty good, etc., and was already late teens 20 in his NY years, I wasn’t a huge fan. He did loaf at times and he seemed aloof. Plus years of reading sports pages may have brainwashed me. Although, funny thing was, you also had these anti-straw, pro mcreynolds moments from the sportswriters, until they finally decided he was too much a jerk, and at least straw was sometimes good for a quote or a drink.
On the LL dad thing, Jorge Posada’s dad was a real jerk, i have it on authority from a kid who played ball with him whena kid in PR.
by wobatus on May 29, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I miss Cliffy
It feels like ten years since he played though.
I don’t recall people thinking McReynolds was lazy, just a general lack of grission. He’s always been underappreciated, imo.
"It's Father's Day today at Shea, so to all you fathers out there, Happy Birthday." -- Ralph Kiner
by dissento on May 28, 2009 1:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah
I remember how good he was in 2005, too. That team had A LOT of talent. If only Reyes had broken out a year earlier and Beltran been healthy, we would’ve had a legit shot at the division. And with a healthy and dominant Pedro going into the playoffs…
Oh well. My favorite moment from Cliff in 2005 was a HR he hit at Yankee Stadium off some scrub the Yankees had starting that day (I forget who). Not only did it reach the upper deck, it looked like it was still rising when it did. Few hits have I seen crushed more than that one. He hit another HR later, and Wright did too, and they won big time.
Somehow, a chain of events unfolded that put Steve Phillips in a professional broadcast booth Sunday night so he could rip Carlos Beltran. Try to explain that in any other terms.
by Greenpoint Ian on May 28, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 2005 season was fun
I think I went to 5 or 6 games that Pedro pitched, just walking up to the stadium to buy tickets on gameday. He almost no-hit the Astros one time I went.
One of my top 5 favorite Mets games was this one in June when Cliff hit a walkoff homer in extra innings to beat the Angels.
by James Kannengieser on May 28, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also
Beltran and Wright combined to go 0-9 in that Angels game… garbage!
by James Kannengieser on May 28, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That game was awesome.
Cliffy had the walk-off, but it was Marlon Anderson with the inside-the-park job earlier. I heard that on the radio and went ballistic!
Grission and Husart - that is either the non-union Mexican equivelant of "Starsky and Hutch" or the key to winning the World Series.
by IanB in MD on May 28, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That game was a classic
and in the offseason they show it on SNY all the time.
by Zwill on May 28, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The other thing about the 2005 team
If Omar actually got Delgado to sign, they would have had a bona fide slugger at first base.
After Plan A failed, Omar went to Plan B: Doug Mientkiewiecz.
It’s fun/depressing to imagine what Delgado might have brought to the team in 2005.
We've got ourselves a ball club, the Mets of New York town!
by kingcritical on May 28, 2009 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
bernard gilkey and kevin mcreynolds
two great men.
All of the mets fans hope that we will not see the bad news mets ever again.
by kendynamo on May 28, 2009 2:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i bet
i have great news, after seeing the giants play last night i am going to say that Chipper jones will be on the dl by the end of the week
he was a mess last night, could not walk or put any pressure on his left foot. so without him, the braves are really hurting
by jhroac02 on May 28, 2009 4:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
How does someone go from 8.0 WAR to -0.1 WAR
in two seasons? That’s just incredible.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on May 28, 2009 5:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Andruw Jones
6.7 in 2006, -2.3 in 2008
by TheBigStapler on May 28, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough, fair enough.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on May 28, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha ha!
I wonder what the worst drop off of a 5+ WAR player was in the span of 2 years. I think Ortiz may set the record this year.
by TheBigStapler on May 29, 2009 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was only 1.4 WAR last year.
The decline had already begun…
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on May 29, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
The trick is to be super awful and yet used almost every day. That’s how you really rack up those negative points!
by TheBigStapler on May 29, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and cool story
I met Roger Cedeño at one of my uncle’s parties in 2003. You know that one uncle you have that is the black sheep and has all these crazy things going on in his life? That’s this guy. He’s dating a girl less than half his age (!!!) and with a sister younger than his youngest child (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
Crazy, crazy man.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on May 28, 2009 5:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I actually saw McReynolds play, and must dissent.
He reminded me of Beltran in only 1 respect—he glided to balls in the outfield, so while he had near-Beltran range, it never looked like he was “hustling” a la Dykstra or Eckstein. This turned a lot of fans off, as did his demeanor: in the middle of a pennant race, he once said “If we win I go to the post-season, if we lose I get to go home and go hunting, so I win either way.” McCarver thought this was funny, but it offended many fans.
My problem with McReynolds is that a lot of his power numbers resulted in empty runs (kind of what some criticize A-Rod for): he specialized in the 8th inning solo HR when the Mets were already ahead or behind by 5 runs or so. I know, BP says there’s no such thing as a clutch hitter, but he never did seem to produce when the Mets needed him most. And I do recall him being rather streaky, as meigs noted above.
by madisonmetsfan on May 28, 2009 5:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Selective memory 101
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on May 28, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you have anything substantive by way of response?
If not, before posting another piece of empty snark, take a moment to think, then hit the “cancel” button.
by madisonmetsfan on May 28, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
some McReynolds splits...
overall career OPS .775
OPS with RISP: .811
OPS with bases loaded: .952
OPS with runner on 3rd, 2 out: .983
OPS with 2 out and RISP: .836
OPS in “late and close” situations: .735
OPS in tie games: .778
OPS with margin >4 runs: .801
OPS in “high leverage” situations: .787
OPS in “medium leverage” situations: .756
OPS in “low leverage” situations: .788
I don’t think there’s really a whole lot there one way or the other. The “late/close” split isn’t great, but the “2 out/RISP” is pretty good.
by JoshNY on May 28, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't
put up wright and beltran’s numbers with risp and 2 outs from last year. reyes and delgado, ok.
And definitely not Jeter’s numbers last 3 years with risp and 2 out. It’ll make folks think clutch is possible.
Haven’t looked at this recently. Haven’t there been studies saying anti-clutch is possible to some small degree (guys gagging), much more so than clutch is backed-up.
by wobatus on May 29, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The fact that I suggested that this is selective memory ala current Met fans with Beltran
is the very definition of substantive, if I may say so myself.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on May 28, 2009 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, no real surprises.
To be clear, I’m not dumping on McReynolds. He really was one of the better outfielders in Mets history. I just thought I’d explain to those who never saw him play why he was never all that popular with Met fans at the time.
by madisonmetsfan on May 28, 2009 7:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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