Citi Field vs Citizens Bank Park
by Eric Simon on May 8, 2009 2:30 PM EDT
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PrintLast night's outburst notwithstanding, Citi Field has proven to be every bit the homerun graveyard we thought it might be. On the other hand, Citizen's Bank Park in Philadelphia continues to produce homeruns at an alarming rate.
| Park | 2009 HR/G |
|---|---|
| Citi Field | 1.71 |
| Citizen's Bank Park | 3.43 |
So we know Citi Field's dimensions dwarf those of the CBP, but thanks to our friend Greg Rybarczyk at HitTracker, we have some visual evidence illustrating the physical disparity between the two parks.
That's right: you could literally drop CBP inside Citi Field. Also, save for the occasional turn, CBP really does put the "box" in "bandbox".
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are you sure about this?
It’s an awfully small sample — I think it may just still be too early to tell how Citi plays. Like I said in the game thread last night, the Park Factors from last year show CBP playing dead-neutral — Shea actually was more of a home-run magnifier than CBP. And this is exactly how Shea always played — death on homers for the first month, and then a fairly neutral park. I think the Phillies’ pitching (and, hell, their hitting too) may have more to do with their HR/G numbers than you’re acknowledging.
probably
The Phillies pitching has been atrocious at home and away this season, and park factors have shown that CBP is hitter friendly overall, very home run friendly, but suppresses doubles and triples. Mix in the quality power hitters that the Phillies have and you get some skewed early season numbers.
Not necessarily saying that it won’t play out that way in the long run for Citi Field. It very well might.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
A couple of points
I’ll take the wait and see approach to, but:
1. How does Citi compare to Shea through April? I would have thought that Citi would yield a few more homers early in the season due to the outfield stands and scoreboard blocking the north wind.
2. I’ve been of the mind set that when the wind shifts to the south/south west in the summer it would lead to more homers. (More so than Shea because home plate is angled differently) But now I’m thinking that the Rotunda, and the fact the the area behind home plate is solid, might block the south winds and suppress home runs.
Via crashburnalley
In contrast to hulking Veterans Stadium, winds pour through Citizens Bank Park like water through a flow-through tea bag. Balls that get airborne are lifted up, up and away.
The most obvious suspects are the prevailing southwest and south winds of summer, which blow straight out to center and right-center fields. Those winds increase with height. Other factors might also be at work.
[…]
[Phillies president Dave] Montgomery believes that the structural mass of Veterans Stadium – totally enclosed save for the exit-ramp openings – had a blocking effect on the movement of air. Jim Eberwine, a meteorologist at the National Weather Service in Mount Holly, says Montgomery is on sound scientific footing. A massive building would affect air currents the way an island distorts approaching waves.
[…]
In the new park, a wind blowing toward center outside the park blows toward center inside, too.
An important difference between the two stadiums is how Citizens Bank Park uses prevailing winds to benefit hitters.
Well after the park was designed, the Phillies retained a Canadian engineering firm to study air-flow patterns at the site. Using Weather Service data, RWDI Inc. determined that the prevailing winds on summer nights were from the south, averaging about 12 m.p.h.
So, yeah, it’s not just the dimensions. Also, with a comparison between Citi and CBP somewhere Whole Camels is turning in his proverbial grave.
Ha, that's why I included "proverbial"
I just know how much you love hearing (espically from our broadcast team) about the difference between the stadiums. I hear our flyballs would be HRs in CBP.
the worst
The worst announcing crew w/r/t whining about CBP’s dimensions were the Padres’ crew, whose home park is a “joke” in the complete opposite direction.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
Yeah, that's really stupid
It’s really annoying to hear fans/media talk about CBP like the way the park plays only helps the Phils, also via crashburnalley
Everyone is playing in the same park people.
note
It’s worth noting with this chart that the Phillies moved the left field wall back about 7 or 8 feet after the 2005 season, so the 06-07 numbers there are more “true” to the state of the park today.
Yes, the wall was actually closer at one time…
http://www.thegoodphight.com
winds pour through Citizens Bank Park like water through a flow-through tea bag
that simile sucks as bad a the river tide
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON. WE WANT THE MANSION NOT THE CONDO.
wind
Allegedly the engineers performed the wind tests at the new ballpark before the behemoth Veterans Stadium had been imploded. I’d imagine a massive structure like that literally across the street could have some effect on wind currents.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
I love stories like that
Reminds me of the one about the aerospace engineers who were performing bird impact tests on a jet engine and kept breaking fan blades, until they realized that maybe they should thaw the chickens before they threw them in there.
If it was....
There would be spaces where they didn’t put any wall because your hands shook by accident while you were drawing and erased them.
by Lunkwill Fook on May 8, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
It's really weird that there isn't even a single part of CBP
that is deeper than Citi. Not even in straight left or right to the foul poles.
"I got my pregnant wife (the Yankee fan) with me. Hoping my kid learns to kick her everytime the Mets score." -Schifftis-
Eric, you ignorant *lut. You show that there have been about twice as many HRs per game at CBP (3.43) as at Citi (1.71).
Since you wrote this, the numbers have changed somewhat, but the ratio is still about 2X:
3.00 for CBP (69 in 23 games)
1.57 for Citi (36 in 23 games)
But what you failed to also say was that in the two teams’ AWAY games, the difference was about the same, and if anything even more lopsided:
3.09 – HRs by Phils and opponents in the Phils’ away games (68 in 22 games)
1.35 – HRs by Mets and opponents in the Mets’ away games (31 in 23 games)
Citi is looking a bit more homer-friendly all of a sudden. The reason for the big difference in HR totals isn’t the parks, it’s the teams’ very different hitting and pitching.
But in any case the bottom line in hitting is scoring runs, regardless of whether it’s with a HR or walk-off walk. Citi is looking about neutral so far, but it’s very early yet. CBP’s rank in Park Factor for offense for the last two years has been 14th and 15th out of 30. This year, it’s still early and I expect this will move up as we go along, but so far it’s ranked 23rd (!).
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor
All the best,
Schmenkman
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