You Decide: Is Jerry Manuel A Good Manager?

by Eric Simon on Jun 17, 2009 5:41 PM EDT Comment 33 comments

MetsBlog readers overwhelmingly approve of the job Jerry Manuel has done as manager of the Mets. But is he really a good manager? You decide!

Poll

Do you approve of the job Jerry Manuel is doing as manager?

Yes

156 votes

No

344 votes

500 votes | Poll has closed

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Comments

This is funny

We all know that “No” will end with at least 85%

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Jun 17, 2009 5:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yay!

I was hoping we’d get to do our own version of this exercise.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Jun 17, 2009 5:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

There really should be

a MetsBlog vs. AA weekly installment.

Kind of like that Reyes trade scenerio, Cerrone approves of it and he states why. Then we send Simon up to rebuttle.

I think that would be a helluva read.

"We have to find a way to play better, there's no doubt. Overall. I'm not pointing fingers at anybody. Offense, defense, pitching -- we have to find a way to play better. The reality of this is, coming here to Pittsburgh and being swept -- personally, I feel embarrassed." -- Carlos Beltran

by EMSfan9 on Jun 17, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Eric would lose that battle.

“Facts” and “evidence” cannot overcome the power of gamers and grinders.

by ams258 on Jun 17, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"Baseball is not played by computers"

by JoshNY on Jun 17, 2009 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

cerrone does make some good points in the end of his post

about how managers really don’t have that much impact. like when that blog guy says that they’ve become better situational hitters…well, that’s pretty much just randomness that Jerry hasn’t done anything to cause.

Jerry has made plenty of questionable decisions when it comes to “riding the hot hand” and his lefty-righty matchups. His handling of Church and Murphy, along with his bullpen usage (although it has gotten better, I feel), is just at times slightly crazy, in a bad way. Most importantly, he does just throw ideas around and then forget about them. Like when he promises that Church and Murphy will get a start vs the Yankees. and then one of them doesn’t. There was that article about how he throws his players under the bus, and I agree with that.

Haven’t even touched on his bunting ideas. Overall, Jerry has been a poor manager. Are there many managers better/available who I’d rather see? Not really. Bobby V, Acta in a week, me or a lot of other people on the site, really. I just never understood why the vast majority of managers are people who played the game, when it’s quite obvious to see that they often don’t understand the fundamentals of the game itself.

David Eckstein: so gritty they would eat him in the south for breakfast with some butter and sprinkle cheese.

by wrightHOF on Jun 17, 2009 5:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

More choices would be nice.

I’d rather grade him like a term paper for a greater range of options. Me, I’d give Jerry a C+. Despite some curious in-game decisions and the mishandling of Church, he’s done an adequate job (faint praise, that). The players haven’t quit on him or tuned him out. Given the holes in the roster Omar handed him and the injuries, the team IS only 3 games out.

by madisonmetsfan on Jun 17, 2009 7:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i agree. i also like the attitude he brings. better than willie randolphs.

by samdaman on Jun 17, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

in spite of jerry

not because

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Jun 17, 2009 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I said in the post where this was mentioned that probably 90% would say no.

Pretty close so far…

Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but Jerry abuses the privilege.

by AnthonyR on Jun 17, 2009 7:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I voted No

But you can’t blame everything on Jerry. Part of the problem is Tim Redding and Livan Hernandez are both entrenched in the rotation. I also didn’t like the pinch hitting Tatis for Martinez tonight. I know it is lefty vs lefty, but Tatis has been up in those situations a few times recently (bases loaded, 1st and 3rd), and has hit double play balls a bunch of times. Martinez was coming off a well struck double and Hendrickson isn’t Randy Johnson. I know Tatis hit the ball hard but I just didn’t like the move.

The Mets are so confusing though. We go weeks with solid pitching and no offense at all, now Murphy and Church are swinging well, Sheff is hot again and it looks like we need another arm. I wish the Astros weren’t so stupid. Oswalt would be so nice to have behind Johan right now. The Astros need help everywhere and are in need of a full rebuild, so we match up well. I’m sure Oswalt would be rejuvenated being back on a contender and going from whatever that park in Houston is called no to Citi Field would have to help him, you would think.

"It's like the old phrase goes.....The balls in your court now Mr.Church, so you take that ball, you dribble it up the court and....................................... get a layup"
- Keith Hernandez

by nrmax88 on Jun 17, 2009 10:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

But that's not the question

I’m not blaming the Mets struggles on him, but I don’t think he’s a good manager regardless.

King of the bling come to lay down the evidence//Not George Bush, L-Millz be da president

by Sam Page on Jun 17, 2009 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Alright

Either we’re getting some Metsblog people sneaking over here, or at least 40 of you are just being clowns :P

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Jun 17, 2009 10:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Maybe it's the Metsblog lurkers.

by EMSfan9 on Jun 17, 2009 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Has to be

According to every game thread, fanshots and fanposts. There’s no way that 30% of AA population think that Manuel is a good manager.

by Clemenx00 on Jun 17, 2009 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lets talk about the truth of the matter. Omar Minaya is a poor GM.

2005 83-79
2006 97-65
2007 88-74
2008 89-73

Minaya knew the only good reliever he had last season was Wagner, but refused to do anything about it. I can’t believe he got an extension.

But the Mets wouldn’t have the guts to bring in a manager with personality. They don’t want anyone that might actually shake the boat.

Oh, and someone said how managers have nothing to do with how good or bad a team is? How do you explain a Tony LaRussa, whose coached for 30 years, has gotten to the playoffs 12 times with four different teams and 2 World Series wins with different teams. Or Lasorda at the 2000 Olympics leading a bunch of Has Beens and Never Was to the Gold. That team was a complete joke.

by WebBard on Jun 18, 2009 12:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Really? I feel like

All Jerry does is shake the boat, that’s his whole schtick, making moves that “put his mark” on the team and making all kinds unnecessary claims to the press, but doing it in such a kindly way that everyone adores him. Things like PHing Omir Santos for Ramon Castro or Angel Pagan for Daniel Murphy. Declaring Daniel Murphy an awesome LF, then a few months later, no more LF for Murph. Toying with the emotions of guys like Church and Socks. His unwaivering devotion to the marriage between ~~J.J. Putz~~ Bobby Parnell and the eighth inning. His obsession with using David Wright as “protection” for Gary Sheffield. His romance for fringe replacement players like Omir Santos, Angel Pagan, and Ramon Martinez. Calling his GM out for not building him an adequate bullpen after his decision to use a 40 year old Japenese import with reverse platoon splits as a LOOGY.

This isn’t exactly a new thing either, he did this in Chicago too, and the types of complaints were exactly the same.

I feel pretty much the same way about Omar as I do Jerry respective to their occupations; they were both fine when they were assistants, but they don’t belong in charge. Its a little bit easier to cut Omar some slack, since at least he’s done the occasional awesome thing, like bring in Johan or Voltron or unearth some unheralded talent like Jose Valentin, John Maine, Duaner Sanchez, Alex Cora, or Gary Sheffield. Plus, Omar’s done wonders for the Mets farm system the likes of which are unfamiliar to us fans. It hasn’t quite pushed its way through to Triple-A yet (though I bet Ken Oberkfell wish it would, more than anyone), but the results are there, from flashy acquisitions like Johan to high profile young talent like F! or Holt to diamonds in the rough from the late rounds of the draft or the bargain section on the IFA market like Jon Niese and Jenrry Mejia. Jerry also hasn’t done as much damage as Minaya, but it just seems like he does about as much damage as he possibly can sometimes, its just not possible for the manager to do damage on the level of the GM, and there’s very little he’s done that really seems to be positive.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Jun 18, 2009 2:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Duaner Sanchez

I’ve noticed people mention him as a shrewd pickup before, so not calling you out specifically on this, but the whole idea that he was this great reliever who we could have counted on for our pen if not for the accident… kind of unfounded. He had a rather lucky 1st half, with peripherals not out of line with previous seasons (and fairly mediocre.) Despite the decreased velocity after the crash, his K/9 in 2008 was just slightly lower then 06, and the walks were down as well, leading to an increased K/BB ratio. All that really happened was his BABIP and HR/9 returned more towards his career levels.

by yellomellojello on Jun 18, 2009 2:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll buy that

To a certain extent. I think the decreased velo gets overlooked to a degree as a culprit since his ratios stayed similar, but his batted ball profile has been significantly weaker since the accident. His LD% was the highest mark of his career in 2008, and his GB% was the lowest it had been since 2003. His FIP shot up about a half a run, but his tRA didn’t really change much, and much of his regression does look somewhat natural. For example his HR/FB normalized, but at the same time, his LD% shot up from 13.2% to 25.4% while his BABIP went from .263 to just .285, so from that angle, it looks like he was actually “luckier” in 2008 than he was in 2006.

But still, replace him with El Duque if you want. He was another guy aided by the Mets above average defense and Shea’s large expanses, but Omar still got a pitcher who was around average at worst for nothing, even if he was brittle as all hell, and a guy who was quite a bit better than his ERA suggested at the time of the trade. He had a 4.41 tRA with Arizona at the time of the trade, and essentially maintained that with the Mets by going 4.32 and 4.22 in 2006 and 2007. Or Ollie, who certainly isn’t a $36 million arm, but plus a stopgap reliever has been a fine return for Xavier Nady and his -0.1 WAR from 2006.

The point is, none of this changes my initial point, that Omar has, in fact, done some good things, despite being a relatively inept problem solver and some particularly egregious oversights.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Jun 18, 2009 3:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

really?

you’re gonna cite 4 consecutive >.500 seasons as proof that Omar is a bad GM? Unless the bottom falls out, this will be Omar’s 5th straight >.500 season, which would match the number of >.500 seasons the Mets had in the 15 years prior to Omar becoming GM.

I’m not saying Omar’s a great GM, but he’s gotten better results than just about everyone but Frank Cashen and Bing Devine (and Phillips, I guess). If I had my way, Omar would be demoted to head of scouting and we’d get a younger more stats-oriented guy as the actual GM, but I’m not in charge, the Wilpons are. And somehow, I feel if Omar goes, we’ll get someone like Bowden instead of a stats guy. And that frightens the bejeesus out of me

by cjmulrain on Jun 18, 2009 7:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Phillips got way lucky.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Jun 18, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And I'd even be ok with Omar still having a lot of power in the organization

As long as he’s counteracted, like you said, by some stat guy(s).

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Jun 18, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

A Bill James type

by TheBigStapler on Jun 18, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Out of 4 years the team has had 1 good season. He makes a one win improvement between the last two seasons, but of them ending in collapses and he gets a raise and an extension. I don’t think Minaya gets hired all that quickly if he’s fired.

Plus, the Mets have been floating around a 130-140 Mill payroll for the last few seasons, which has been either two or three in overall payroll during that time.

Philips was horrible, its a joke that he’s on ESPN as an analyst now.

by WebBard on Jun 18, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think it depends on how you define a "good" season

if you’re a long time Mets fan who suffered through the early 60’s, the late 70’s/early 80’s, the early 90’s, and the early 00’s, being in contention the entire season IS a good season. If you’re a converted Yankees fan who’s only happy with winning it all, then he’s never had a good season.

Again, I’m not saying he’s a great GM, but he’s not a “poor” one either. I’d say he’s middle of the road – he’s above average at scouting, but well below average in contract negotiations and building a complete roster.

by cjmulrain on Jun 18, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs