Off Day WAR: The Best And Worst Seasons By Mets Center Fielders
by James Kannengieser on Jun 8, 2009 12:30 PM EDT
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Center field is next up in the wins above replacement (WAR) series. Here are the top 10 seasons in Mets history according to Sean Smith's WAR database:
| Rank | Year | Player | WAR |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 2006 | Carlos Beltran | 7.6 |
| 2 | 1996 | Lance Johnson | 7.3 |
| 3 | 2008 | Carlos Beltran | 7.0 |
| 4 | 1969 | Tommie Agee | 5.7 |
| 5 | 2007 | Carlos Beltran | 5.5 |
| 6 | 1979 | Lee Mazzilli | 5.0 |
| 7 | 1986 | Lenny Dykstra | 5.0 |
| 8 | 1970 | Tommie Agee | 4.7 |
| 9 | 1987 | Lenny Dykstra | 3.8 |
| 10 | 1978 | Lee Mazzilli | 3.7 |
And the bottom 10:
| Rank | Year | Player | WAR |
|---|---|---|---|
| 38 | 1972 | Tommie Agee | 0.0 |
| 39 | 1976 | Del Unser | -0.1 |
| 40 | 2001 | Jay Payton | -0.1 |
| 41 | 1967 | Cleon Jones | -0.4 |
| 42 | 1980 | Jerry Morales | -0.4 |
| 43 | 1968 | Tommie Agee | -0.5 |
| 44 | 1974 | Don Hahn | -0.6 |
| 45 | 1992 | Howard Johnson | -1.1 |
| 46 | 1973 | Don Hahn | -1.3 |
| 47 | 1999 | Brian McRae | -2.7 |
Some quick notes:
- Barring something bad happening, superstar baseball player Carlos Voltron should add a ~6.5 WAR season to this list. UZR, TotalZone and +/- loved his glove each of the last 3 seasons, but he has been below average this season. His offense has been incredible though, so his overall value hasn't suffered much.
- The 1969 Mets and 1996 Mets both featured an outstanding CF/LF tandem. Tommie Agee and Cleon Jones combined for 13.2 WAR in 1969, and Lance Johnson and Bernard Gilkey were worth 15.3 WAR in 1996. Agee has the biggest gap between best and worst seasons on these lists, at 6.2 WAR.
- I have vague memories of Hojo in center field, and apparently that's for the best. TotalZone has him at -25 runs defensively in 1992, including throwing arm runs. It's no wonder that the Mets team FIP outperformed its ERA that season by 0.36.
- Was Brian McRae really that bad? His 1999 season ranks as the worst by a Mets position player in team history. Note that he only played about a half season's worth of innings in 1999.
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my dad HATED Brian McRae
I thought he was ok in 1998, but by ’99 his act had worn thin (his act being bad defense and crappy hitting, of course).
by cjmulrain on Jun 8, 2009 12:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
McRae
This’ll sound weird, but I have a soft spot for guys like McRae, by which I mean guys who didn’t really seem to like playing pro baseball. Everybody kind of assumes that just because you get paid millions to play a game (or at least what is a game to most of us) you’re supposed to love it. And there are guys like that, guys who’ll play until teams refuse to give them a job. Don’t get me wrong; I’m sure McRae loves baseball, and even loved playing it as a high schooler, but the game has a different character when you’re a pro. I don’t think it suited McRae, who bought a radio station when he was 28 or so, and immediately started thinking about retirement to become a broadcaster. His defense declined big time after that, and his bat fell off a cliff after 1998. Retired in early 2000, I believe, much to the surprise of absolutely no one.
He was always inconsistent on defense before 1998, but he was a patient guy at the plate with so-so contact skills, had a bit of pop. Really helped the Mets in 1998, not a bad guy to have around in general.
I kind of suspect Ramon Castro is another of those guys, judging from his limited ambition.
by Alex Nelson on Jun 8, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lenny Dykstra's 1986
strikes me as even more impressive when you consider that he was still basically a platoon player. He ended up with 498 PAs that year and was still a 5.0 WAR? Dang.
On a similar note, Beltran played only 140 games in 2006 and had a little over 600 PAs. Beast.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jun 8, 2009 1:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Voltron 2006
He should get -100 points for striking out looking in the 2006 Playoffs. That’s a deduction for lack of grission.
Grission and Husart - that is either the non-union Mexican equivelant of "Starsky and Hutch" or the key to winning the World Series.
by IanB in MD on Jun 8, 2009 1:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If he tried harder, he would have the top three spots
He should try slamming his helmet after he grounds out…
by hotspur on Jun 8, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1996
Tood Hundley had a pretty good year, too. 4.9, I think. They were a good team with trouble in the starting rotation.
Grission and Husart - that is either the non-union Mexican equivelant of "Starsky and Hutch" or the key to winning the World Series.
by IanB in MD on Jun 8, 2009 1:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
By Trouble in the Starting Rotation
We mean absolute disaster. That was Paul Wilson’s rookie year, which I had high hopes for as a junior higher. I remember following Izzy in ‘95, and being so excited when Street & Smith’s predicted a 20 win season with a sub-3.00 ERA for ‘96….I didn’t see 6-14, 4.77 happening. Generation K broke my heart. I recall talking myself into liking Mark Clark back then – yikes.
Just glancing at bb-ref, I didn’t remember that we had Pedro Martinez on that team! Pedro A., of course, but still… :)
by mookstra2 on Jun 8, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is anyone else surprised Mookie isn't in the top 10?
What was his best at CF?
by Reg Dunlop on Jun 8, 2009 1:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
3.4 in 1986
quite a tandem between him and Nails.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jun 8, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so they basically had an 8.4 WAR centerfielder in '86?
no wonder this team can’t win. Beltran’s a loser by comparison.
Seriously though, that’s pretty damn impressive.
by cjmulrain on Jun 8, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LF
Take a look at the previous article about all-time LF. George Foster is 0.0! Mookie and Nails were carrying the OF big-time.
Grission and Husart - that is either the non-union Mexican equivelant of "Starsky and Hutch" or the key to winning the World Series.
by IanB in MD on Jun 8, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Foster and his 0.0 got about 1/3d of the innings in LF; Mookie, Heep (WAR – 0.9) and Mitchell (WAR – 2.6) split the bulk of the rest of the playing time there. The six outfield regulars (Foster, Heep, Mookie, Dykstra, Mitchell and Straw) combined for 15.6 WAR. Pretty good as a whole.
Interesting tidbits I came across while preparing this comment: Roger McDowell played 1.1 innings in left and right field in 1986; Jesse Orosco played 3 innings in right. These are things I definitely did not remember from ’86.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jun 8, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think
that was the game in Cincy where Knight punched out Eric Davis. A bunch of people got thrown out in the ensuing melee and Davey was shorthanded. So he kept flip-flopping McDowell and Orosco between RF and pitcher depending on the lefty / righty matchup. I think Orosco even caught a line drive hit to him.
by blains2000 on Jun 8, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahhh yes
That happened in this game. Straw had been ejected for arguing balls and strikes in the 6th, and then Knight (as blains2000 mentions) was ejected for punching Eric Davis, and Mitchell was ejected in the same brawl, so from the 10th to 13th innings, Carter played third, Ed Hearn caught, McDowell pitched to righties, Orosco pitched to lefties, and the guy who wasn’t pitching played the outfield (left or right, with Mookie playing the other corner, depending on who the hitter was. Must’ve been fun to be Dykstra playing CF and having to cover for a pitcher playing outfield.
And yes:
REDS 13TH: OROSCO CHANGED POSITIONS (PLAYING RF); MCDOWELL CHANGED POSITIONS (PITCHING); WILSON CHANGED POSITIONS (PLAYING LF); Rowdon grounded out (shortstop to first); Perez flied out to right; Oester grounded out (second to first); 0 R, 0 H, 0 E, 0 LOB. Mets 3, Reds 3.
by JoshNY on Jun 8, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so we pretty obviously have, right now
the best SS, 3B and CF in team history and people think we should seriously get rid of one of THEM to insure we make the playoffs?
All of the mets fans hope that we will not see the bad news mets ever again.
by kendynamo on Jun 8, 2009 3:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Screw that;
let’s get rid of all three. We’re practically guaranteed the World Series if Omar can pull that off.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jun 8, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not that I would ever advocate this
but could you imagine the prospect haul the Mets could pull in if a competent GM was to trade all 3 of them? Of course, Omar would probably end up with Eckstein, Dontrelle Willis, Jermaine Dye a replaceable reliever or two and some mid-level prospects.
by cjmulrain on Jun 8, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
In the hands of Billy Beane, the Mets could dominate AAA for years to come!
Seriously, the point of even having prospects is that you hope to get lucky enough with a few of them to get prime young best-in-baseball players on your major-league team. How much better than Wright, Reyes, Beltran (and might as well toss in Santana) could you hope to do?
by anonymous on Jun 8, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
4 of the great
build your franchise around players in the game. The guys that are hard to get. And K-Rod isn’t a bad closer either,a nd the bullpen even with the Putz meltdown has been strong. hell they even have a decent 5th starter in Livan, who unfortunately beacme the 4th starter.
But filling in the rest of the line-up has been an abysmal failure. Some of that is injuries (Delgado, but not shocking at 37), some guys just not playing up to capabilities (Murph, although he had no sustained track record)-but a lot by plain bad design.
The easy part for a flush franchise should be the replacement or better level filling in. It’s really pretty sad.
by wobatus on Jun 8, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
like I said
I wasn’t advocating it. I wouldn’t trade any of them in a million years unless we were talking about Pujols or something.
by cjmulrain on Jun 8, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah but come on people, Beltran isn't that good
I mean he throws teammates under the bus!!! I have no idea what the hell that means but the Post says it so it must be true. There has got to be a serious WAR deduction for that!!
by Endys Game on Jun 8, 2009 3:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
the bus
Is that from the Post? I thought it was from mets today. The Post might have said it previously.
As far as the comments after the pirates series, he didn’t seem to absolve himself. But I have a feeling pelf and maine were in the firing line (he mentioned them being without McLouth yet scoring abunch of runs). Jerry got on Pelf a bit.
Earlier this year he seemed to get on pagan for the misplay against the Giants (and Santana got into Murphy a bit for one of his miscues, and has said stuff like “I did my job.”).
This kind of thing happens sometimes. Michael jordan called out teammates. Ddn’t seem to hurt.
I don’t think that has anything to do with the mets problems, such as they are. Maybe Carlos won’t be invited to Pagan’s next big party, or pel’s. Pelf seems standuppish though. He acknowledged he was awful. Whether that means he can do anything about it is another story.
by wobatus on Jun 8, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Repressed Memory
I had successfully repressed the memory that Howard Johnson had played CF.
Thanks…. thanks.
"It's Father's Day today at Shea, so to all you fathers out there, Happy Birthday." -- Ralph Kiner
by dissento on Jun 9, 2009 12:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
1999
Fairly amazin’ that the 1999 Mets were able to replace Brian McRae with the outstanding performance they got out of Daryl Hamilton and Shawn Dunston (yes, his defense might have negated his .344 batting average) in the 2nd half. ah, 1999: when every move Steve Phillips made turned to gold (Henderson, Ventura, Benitez, Cedeno, Hamilton/Dunston, bringing up Agbayani). OK, trading Isringhausen for Billy Taylor wasn’t the brightest idea (or was that the Kenny Rogers trade?)…
by hankwebb on Jul 6, 2009 4:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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