U.Z.R.

by Delgado on Jun 8, 2009 11:43 PM EDT

I was recently reading about U.Z.R. I think it is a good stat but it is flawed.

My main criticism is that it does not account for the quality of the balls that are hit to you, I'm interested if to know if there are others that agree.

There is a way to correct this problem and make four dimensional plots, (x,y,z,t) of defensive players range. This is possible if all balls hit are recorded as vectors. We would only really need two data points, for fly balls, to achieve this goal. First distance traveled on a 2-D map and second time traveled in the air. We could also use the velocity of the ball off the bat and the angle to calculate the same info, I don't know which statistics are easier to get or even where to get either of them. From this data we could diagram average player range and more accurately determine a players worth defensively. One problem is ground balls, the physics of that is much different than fly balls, any suggestions are appreciated.

I posted this because I think with some help this algorithm could easily be generated and you guys are the best group to run it by before actually wasting time to try to do this.

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Comments

Never before has their been a bigger difference in the intelligence of two fanposts by the same person in the span of 4 days.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Jun 9, 2009 12:03 AM EDT reply actions

Yes

This is the Paul’s Boutique to last week’s Licensed to Ill.

by Zwill on Jun 9, 2009 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions

This post has more references than Egg Man.

King of the bling come to lay down the evidence//Not George Bush, L-Millz be da president

by Sam Page on Jun 9, 2009 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions

but

She’s Crafty (She’s just my type) is a great line.

I am still partial to Cookiepuss.

by wobatus on Jun 9, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions

like greinke's fastball

and his slowcurve. Delgado just had everyone waving at his Santana like change-up, now he brings the sneaky fast heat.

by wobatus on Jun 9, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Honestly, the best group to run this by

is over at beyondtheboxscore.com, although sometimes Sky stumbles into AA on his own accord.

by Sokojoe on Jun 9, 2009 12:40 AM EDT reply actions

I think some of what you're describing

is the basic idea behind hit-f/x which is only starting to exist. Behold it’s birth here: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/welcome-to-hit-fx

I echo that BtB is better at this stuff than us.

King of the bling come to lay down the evidence//Not George Bush, L-Millz be da president

by Sam Page on Jun 9, 2009 1:04 AM EDT reply actions

Thanks Sam and Joe

hit-f/x is 50% of the information I need, now all I need to find is the position the ball travels on a 2-D plot. I sent a post to Harry Pavlidis on Btb, there is some good stuff on that blog.

by Delgado on Jun 9, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions

Whatever

Right now, UZR can’t quantify grission, so it means nothing to anyone who matters. You think it can see Captain Jeter’s skills, but it can’t. His skills are invisible.

Grission and Husart - that is either the non-union Mexican equivelant of "Starsky and Hutch" or the key to winning the World Series.

by IanB in MD on Jun 9, 2009 6:34 AM EDT reply actions

for some reason

I picture Dwight Schrute saying that:

“You think it can see Captain Jeter’s skills, but it can’t. His skills are invisible.”

by cjmulrain on Jun 9, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions

Nice

But if they use that line in the next season of the office, I’ll sue everyone!!!

Grission and Husart - that is either the non-union Mexican equivelant of "Starsky and Hutch" or the key to winning the World Series.

by IanB in MD on Jun 9, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions

This has always been a "flaw" of UZR and current advanced fielding metrics.

The data just is not available, and the creator of UZR is pushing for the data to become available as much as anybody. What makes UZR useful is that over the long run, the differences in types of balls hit to players tends (tends) to even out, so that the factors we can account for become significant.

Yes, Hit f/x is, um, going to help. Just a bit. ; )

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Jun 9, 2009 1:56 PM EDT reply actions

I can tell YOU'RE excited, haha.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Jun 9, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions

I saw the Hit f/x post the other day

And I almost creamed my pants. This alone may force me to spend endless hours buffing up on my advanced statistics and graphing skills, just so I can get in on some of that action.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Jun 9, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions

Don't

as soon as you figure how to do anything for yourself, fangraphs will start doing it for you.

King of the bling come to lay down the evidence//Not George Bush, L-Millz be da president

by Sam Page on Jun 9, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions

HA!

Yeah that’s always been a holdback. We’re in the generation of instant gratification I guess. Fangraphs is to baseball what Google is to the world. Domination.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Jun 9, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm kind of thinking the same thing

Fan graphs will probably do something like this for defense, actually I think it is in the works now, very soon since they have the data. I better submit a patent today.

by Delgado on Jun 9, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions

Sky,

Yeah I thought about sample size and quality of balls hit evening out over time. Yet I think there is a direct correlation between quality of balls hit and quality of pitching staff that may prevent this from happening.

The thing is the data i would need is already being collected. If I combine some of the Hit f/x data, which I think gives a velocity and angle the ball comes off the bat, with spatial location, which is shown on some game casts and is what makes up the spray hitting charts, this type of calculation should be fairly easy.

by Delgado on Jun 9, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions