TGIJ Applesauce - Carlos Beltran will be OK, Martinez homers, worst Met month in a while, another 10 run rally
by Joe Budd on Jul 1, 2009 10:04 AM EDT
in Applesauce
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PrintThank God it's July. June saw the Mets put together their worst month since Art Howe in 2003 (9-18). And it gets better. Expect David Wright and Gary Sheffield to sit today against Yovani Gallardo this afternoon. Does it even matter what the Phillies are doing anymore? Even 2nd place doesn't look so secure anymore.
Meet the Mets
Let's start with the good news. Carlos Beltran's trip to Vail, Colorado was a positive one and there's a chance he can come back soon after the All-Star break. In the meantime, last night's centerfielder hit his first career home run. It was a bomb.
Mets Geek puts together an off-the-beaten path list of trade possibilities.
Johan was not happy last night.
Looks like there are some Buffalo players that will fit right in with the big league squad.
The Mets will all take the same bus this morning to Miller Park. Individualism! That's what has been killing this team.
Faith and Fear recaps this season. Not for the faint of heart.
This jpg made me smile at least.
The Met defense has taken a huge step back this year.
Mets Police uncovers some gems in the Met Store.
Around the NL East
Hanley Ramirez has a new blog. It has been added to my Google Reader. I'm expecting big things.
Cameron Maybin is hitting well in the triple-A.
The Marlins took their second straight from the Nationals, winning 7-5 in 7 innings. Hanley and Dunn both homered.
Lastings Milledge time "in" Washington has come to an end. Milledge and Hanrahan to Pittsburgh for Nyjer Morgan and Sean Burnett.
Fresh off his suspension for steroids, JC Romero may be charged with battery after his altercation with a Tampa fan.
Fortunately for the Mets, the Braves knocked off the Phillies in extras thanks to Martin Prado.
The Braves are 7-0 when Jeff Francouer wears his turkey underwear.
Around MLB
Hey Omar, Jeff Suppan and Bill Hall are available on Ebay.
Nine years after the Mets scored 10 runs in the bottom of the 8th against the Braves, the Orioles posted the biggest comeback in team history against John Smoltz and the Red Sox. Baltimore came back from a 10-1 deficit to knock off Boston 11-10, scoring 5 in the 7th and 5 in the 8th.
Dan Haren blasted his first career home run and got the W as Arizona beat the Reds.
Joba Chamberlain proves how useless Win/Loss statistics are.
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pollyanna note of the day
Wilmer Flores slash line for June: .309/.340/.426.
btw
did Wilmer ever get his bones scanned about his age? :)
http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2009/06/19/mlb-investigating-irregularities-in-latin-prospect-miguel-ange/
more fun with Wilmer's splits
His road stats this year: .320/.377/.454. 92 at bats. Flukey.
Day game stats: .386/.391/.545. 44 at bats. Looks like he doesn’t walk during the day. :)
Suggestion
Can someone create a “Mets take pride in their defense” section like they have for Ibanez at Lookout Landing? Why let these precious memories go to waste.
I'll start with a couple Murphails
by James Kannengieser on Jul 1, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Those are pretty funny.
FMart’s pratfall last night would be pretty good in slow motion too. The news had a great shot on their back page:
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/galleries/july_2009_back_pages/july_2009_back_pages.html
Re: MetsGeek Article and Trade Proposals in General
Honestly, I think this team should be selling. I know it is still early, but adding one bat is not going to turn this lineup into a contender. There are just too many injuries, and as a result, too many holes to overcome. I would rather not trade what little we have in the farm for a delusional playoff run.
Instead, I think the Mets should become sellers. I know, who can they sell? Well, I think Church, Cora, Redding, Livan, Tatis, Sheffield (especially with how little the acquiring team would have to pay for him), and anyone in the bullpen not named Rodriguez or Parnell would all garner varying levels of interest. Sell off some of these guys and try to acquire some organizational type players so our system has some more depth.
Again, I know it is a bit early to throw up the white flag, but to contend, this team is relying on a lot of “Ifs.” Who knows when/if they get back Beltran, Reyes, Delgado, Maine, Perez, or Putz. And when/if they do come back, will they be effective? How long will it take them to get back on track?
I just can’t justify stripping the farm system bare to try and squeak into the playoffs only to get bounced in the first round. Right now, this team is far from a World Series contender. And you could argue that they are far from a playoff contender.
I kind of agree
But other than Livan and Sheff I don’t think there is anyone other teams would want. Feliciano might get you something.
That argument isn't logical
I’m really tired of the whole “we need more than 1 bat so let’s not trade at all” argument. That’s weak. You have to start somewhere. And the fact is some guys will be back within a month. It’s not just the 1 bat you get. It can have a positive influence throughout the lineup that gets the team going, and maybe you get on a little role. If the middle of the lineup was suddenly Wright, Dunn, Sheff, Church or Wright, Huff, Sheff, Church then suddenly it does look a hell of lot better. 1 guy can have an impact.
How is it weak?
It isn’t a “fact” that guys will be back within a month. There is an educated guess by medical professionals, but there are no facts when it comes to injuries. And in case you haven’t been paying attention, you can’t rely on what the Mets organization says when it comes to injuries.
First of all, Sheff is not an every day player. He just isn’t physically capable of playing every day. Secondly, acquiring Adam Dunn or Aubrey Huff isn’t going to magically make Alex Cora, F!, Castillo, Schneider/Santos, and Murphy better hitters. In a way you are right though, this lineup is so awful that a bat of Dunn’s caliber would make a big difference. My point is that this isn’t enough to make them a playoff team.
Michael Lombardi of National Football Post always says: “There is a difference between hope and a plan.” If you think this team is capable of winning the division with the addition of one more bat, then I don’t think you’re being honest in your evaluation of the Mets (or the Phillies for that matter.) By trading off more young talent to try and win this year isn’t prudent. It’s a move based on hope.
I agree the weak links are glaring
I.E. Castillo, the catchers, Cora, etc., but the fact is, 3 games out is not a lot. My point is, 1 guy could be the difference between being 4-6 games out when Reyes & Beltran come back or being 9 to 10 games out. The season is pretty much over if they don’t bring back anyone, that’s clear. And like someone else said, they will be buyers in the offseason. They will need a legit 1st basemen and another outfielder. I don’t see how you can become a seller with the players they have anyway. Who are you selling? Sheff and/or Church? Livan or Putz? No one’s taking Castillo, lol. You’re not getting much for anyone unless it’s one of the core, let’s be real. You can’t play for 2011 or 2012 when Wright, Reyes, K-Rod, Santana and Beltran are in their primes right now.
This is the problem - complete difference in thinking
I’m not looking to land any great players for Church, Sheff, etc., however, hopefully our scouting department could unearth a gem. You trade these guys for some middle of the road prospects (perhaps guys who are a bit older) and who knows? Maybe you find the next Jason Bay. At the worst you have improved the organizational depth, which is something we do not have at the moment.
Again, you say “we’re 3 games out” without looking at the context. Just because they’re 3 games out doesn’t mean this team is a realistic contender.
yes.
If they’re trading, they should be selling veterans and stocking the farm system. As you said, Omar should be able to find buyers for any of Church, Livan, Sheff, and Tatis (and Castillo, and Cora, and…) willing to deal real prospects for a stretch-run rental. And this would be a far more reasonable approach for the team’s long-term prospects than going the other direction and dealing from a thin farm system for some aging veteran.
But standing (relatively) pat is a reasonable option too. Remember, even if the team doesn’t come back to full strength, it’s certainly going to see some of the injured players return. Maybe if Omar is feeling the heat from the Post and WFAN the best we can hope for is that he simply does nothing of consequence for the rest of the year.
One thing to keep in mind
is that the Mets are almost definitely going to be buyers in the offseason. They’re definitely going to be in win now mode based on ownership and fanbase pressure and the fact that Santana and Beltran might only have a couple of superstar level years left in them. Omar’s next band-aid move is probably going to be to look for some offense assuming that Church and F! don’t prove themselves to be viable options as above replacement corners for next year and that Delgado moves on (even if he appears to be healthy it’s probably DH time). The FA market appears to be very weak, unless you want to spend big money on Holliday and his questionable ability to hit outside of Colorado. So any of the prospects that Omar might hold onto now will probably be back on the block in the winter. I think the odds are pretty good that a big rumor in the offseason turns out to be a trade for Dunn or the like.
That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be sellers, as some chips they can get can then be flipped in the offseason, hopefully for better players, it’s just something to think about.
It's not time to sell
We’re 3 games out, and in two, three weeks or so we (hopefully) get Beltran, Jose, Maine, and possibly a useful Ollie. Those would have us jumping, were they trades.
We need a bat to tread water.
It will be very satisfying if the Phillies have to look back on this season knowing they could have put it away while we were crippled, and didn’t.
Read your post again
We’re 3 games out, and in two, three weeks or so we (hopefully) get Beltran, Jose, Maine, and possibly a useful Ollie. Those would have us jumping, were they trades.
And what happens if your “hopefully” and “possibly” scenarios don’t come to fruition? Then you will have traded prospects for what? To tread water? No thanks.
The only reason why the’re 3 games out is because the Phillies have been awful, and if history is any guide, that will not last for long.
I wouldn't trade much, but we can get a useful bat for not much
And if I’m erring on the hopeful side, you’re throwing in the towel when we’re 3 games out and not even at the break yet.
We don't live in a vacuum.
You say things like “we’re 3 games out” and “we’re not even at the break”, but what no one is discussing is the team. Look at the lineup! Look at the rotation! This team is not a contender, even with an additional bat.
They're a contender with all the guys who are injured back.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
If they come back productive
That’s question mark with Maine and Perez because their productivity is suspect anyway. It’s also a question mark with Reyes because he’s a guy who relies on speed and he’s coming off a hamstring injury. Delgado and Putz won’t be back until very late and who knows how effective they will be so you can’t count on that. Beltran is the only guy who should be reasonably expected to come back at a productive level.
The bottom line is, if the Phillies or Braves were any good this team would be 10 out. Adding a bat doesn’t help the lineup enough and it doesn’t solve the pitching and defense problems. I don’t want a repeat of of 2004 when a mediocre Mets team “hung in” and then traded for the other Zambrano and Anna Benson’s husband.
"I wouldn't trade much, but we can get a useful bat for not much"
I disagree. You can get Eric Hinske’s washed-up ass for not much, or you can overpay for an impact bat.
Did the Cards overpay for DeRosa?
No, they didn’t. Have to see who the PTBNL is, but it doesn’t appear they did. In the Post today it was reported that the Indians asked for Parnell and we balked. That, to me, is lunacy. Parnell. Parnell’s never been anything more than slightly above avg. in the minors. I agree with holding onto legit prospects. Hard throwing righty relievers with weak secondary pitches are a dime a dozen.
Huh?
Parnell is an integral part of the bullpen. So you want to add a bat at the expense of Parnell. Then you’ll be crying for a power arm at the deadline.
The Cardinals are also in first place, with the best player in baseball, an ace, and an overall healthy roster. They are trending up. The Mets are headed in the other direction.
Parnell
isn’t that integral. He has been relegated to earning his way back in close games I thought. His fip isn’t awful, his k rate is up, his babip is awful so he has been unlucky, and he has promise. Green, Stokes, Feliciano and Frankie can get the job done, and you’d miss parns a little. If Putza dn or Wagner come back…oh well, enough dreaming.
DeRosa is decent and can play lots of positions. And you can resign him or he leaves and you get a first rouund pick back. You should be able to get at least a bullpen arm with that pick, although god forbid they draft a Kunz again.
What a fickle fan base.
Parnell was dominant a couple of weeks ago.
Not to sound like a broken record, but the word “If” keeps popping up in these posts.
hmm
well, Chris perez was a fairly highly rated prospect prior to thsi year for a reliever. Top 100 type guy. parnell had a 4.68 fip in AA last year. His ZIPS update fip is 4.73. I don’t believe you could say I said don’t trade parnell for mark Derosa, so i don’t know if I could be called fickle. It isa tough call. I don’t know what the docs tell Omar versus what gets released, etc.
Perez’s AAA fip last year was 3.28, his zips update 4.13. parnell has outpitched him a little this year fip wise. perez likewise throws mid 90s.
The cards are kinda the Mets competition. if they don’t come in first, wildcard race. They have no one hitting besides Pujols much. They did it.
DeRosas wOBA is .338. Nothing special. You would get a first round pick for him if you let him go.
MAybe it is too much. Cards gave up almost the exact same thing if not better to get him. And they of course have a much better shot than Mets.
Integral?
Getting lit up by lefties and righties to a clip of about over .350 each? He’s Matt Wise with a better fastball right now. There’s nothing in his minor league history that indicates he’ll be anything other than a mediocre middle reliever.
TINSTAAPP
In my opinion, this adage works both ways, especially when you consider the kind of stuff Parnell has.
I could be wrong, but I believe Parnell has worked mostly as a starter in the minor leagues. Pitchers traditionally will see an uptick in effectiveness when moving to the bullpen. So his minor league numbers reflect what he has done as a starter.
Plus, like I said above, I like his stuff and the way he attacks hitters. Heath Bell had a rough start when he initially came up with the Mets and look at him now. Not saying Parnell is going to become Heath Bell, he could just as easily become Lindstrom, but my point is that you have a young kid with a high 90s fastball who is very cheap and under your control for a while. Don’t just ship him out for a rental.
I think the Mets can be buyers without "stripping the farm system"
A guy like Willingham wouldn’t cost a Holt or Havens to acquire, especially considering the Nats are looking to dump their unathletic, poor fielding players. I do agree that giving up some of the top prospects for a Huff or even a Johnson would be foolish. Also, I think it’s too early to recommend that the Mets be sellers, unless the Indians want to give us Cliff Lee for Ryan Church or something.
by James Kannengieser on Jul 1, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Willingham
Why did the Marlins move him to the OF? Was he a really terrible catcher or were they just worried about durability? His bat is decent in a corner OF spot but it could be awfully useful if he split C playing time 50-50 with Schneider and filled in in the OF on some of his non-catching days.
Not sure about his defense as a catcher
but he’s had some back injuries in recent years. He hasn’t played catcher since 2006 so I’m guessing that’s out of the question. He hasn’t played 1B since 2006 but that’s easier to play than catcher. A corner OF/1B rotation of Sheff-Church-Willingham-Murphy would be an improvement.
by James Kannengieser on Jul 1, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Here't the thing.
“A corner OF/1B rotation of Sheff-Church-INSERT ANY POTENTIAL PLAYER ACQUISITION HERE-Murphy would be an improvement.”
Thanks
I understand your pessimism, you’ve made it clear in the above comments. Willingham has a wOBA of .408 right now, which is almost certain not to continue. However, even he’s at .375ish for the rest of the season, that would be a significant upgrade. If you don’t want to give up some AA player(s) for that, with the hope that Mike Antonini, Eddie Kunz and Michael Bowman turn into All-Stars, that’s fine. My opinion is let’s get him while the Nats are looking to dump him.
by James Kannengieser on Jul 1, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
My point
Was to stress how poor the current lineup is.
I wouldn’t mind Willingham if the Nats were giving him away. My main opposition is to those that want to acquire someone like Huff, who would cost more.
see you in hell, june
Lets hope that when gut check time comes again the Mets will pass it with flying colors.
D Dub playing
I think even Jerry Manuel is smart enough to realize that sitting David Wright any time between now and when one of our hitters gets back is complete lunacy…though ESPECIALLY so if the game was in CitiField. :-)
The 2009 Amazin' Avenue: SCREW K-ROD, SIGN FUENTES! Check it out, K-Rod ERA under 1.00, Fuentes over 5.00. CASTILLO MUST GO! Castillo is hitting .300!! DON'T SIGN SHEFFIELD! Sheffield has been a great signing. OMIR WHO? Omir grand slam! OMIR SUCKS! Omir takes Papelbon deep to win. CASTRO OVER OMIR! Omir drives in every Met run, wins game! EPIC FAIL.
Wow
An actual insightful decision from Jerry. I’m stunned. Now watch David blow out his ACL today or get eaten by a lion sliding into second base like in the Naked Gun.
Former President Gerald Ford dead
eaten by wolves.
He was delicious
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
I loved that SNL Skit
Brakow: Gerald Ford is dead and I’m gay. Oh c’mon…
Mets Police
That article about shopping in the Mets store was hilarious. Warthen game used jerseys? …the hell??
The should have MLB authenticate the jersey he wore last night, they could probably charge an extra buck for it. “Special Ejection Issue!”
Woooh!
We’re the most obnoxious fans in baseball!
What a joke.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
In Baltimore?
Really? The Sox and Yankees fans flood that place when they come into town every year and they see us, what, once every three years? Four years? And we’re more obnoxious? I mean, I don’t think we’re angels but c’mon.
Dollars to donuts says it was all Phillies fans voting.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
that looks like a stuffed ballot box to me.
I think the Mets pissed off some bored script kiddie someplace.
did catsmeat et al
go to baltimore for a game and get wasted on Natty Bos and ticked off the locals?
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