Mets Trade Church for Frenchy.
That's it. Screw you guys, I'm going home.
4 months ago
squid92
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WTFWTFWTFWTF
Why, God? Why do you hate me so?
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 6:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I know
Truly unbelievable. What more evidence do you need that management is completely clueless?
by JDizzzy on Jul 10, 2009 6:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This is the worst thing ever.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LMAO
im watching the press conference rite now. Omar says that he traded church because he “thinks there might be upside” with francouer
by wrightnumber5 on Jul 10, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What possible upside is there with a guy who's sucked ever since he cooled off after being called up?
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the phantom upside strikes again
Does he remember how his past upside moves have worked out? Garcia, Redding, Livan, Pedro anyone?
by JDizzzy on Jul 10, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OLLIE PEREZ
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm eating at the acela club right now.
On tha tv it’s show Omar annoucing it. It ruined the game
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
by Evan_S on Jul 10, 2009 6:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
WHAT
King of the bling come to lay down the evidence//Not George Bush, L-Millz be da president
by Sam Page on Jul 10, 2009 6:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Literally, the WORST possible person we could have traded for.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Serves me right.
I laughed at the Royals for trading for Betancourt.
Now we de basically the same thing.
I’m done
by Clemenx00 on Jul 10, 2009 6:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 6:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow, what a joke
That’s it, game over man. The Braves pretty much went to Omar and said “Hey man, I’ve got these five apples. I’ll trade them for your 20 apples”
And Omar went
“But Braves, why should I trade my perfectly good 20 apples for your 5 apples?”
And the Braves went
“Well see, a few years ago, people favored these kinds of apples, even though they were really just the same five crappy apples they are now”
and Omar went
“Good enough for me!”
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Meddler on Jul 10, 2009 6:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It's not quite like that
Those five apples have positive value.
Jeff Francoeur (WAR since 2008: -1.9) has negative value.
by psiogen on Jul 10, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh great, so its even better
They said “Hey Omar, I’ll let you trade me these 20 apples, and even better, I’ll LET you throw away five more apples in exchange”
And Omar said “Deal!”
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Meddler on Jul 10, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's more like
Hey Omar! See those 5 apples you have? If you give them to me, I’ll digest it, throw it up, and give it back. Deal?
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
While Churchie has +2.0 WAR in the same span
And Fracoeur is more expensive too 0.575M
by Michkin on Jul 10, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Church makes almost $3 mil
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but Jerry abuses the privilege.
by AnthonyR on Jul 10, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Francoeur makes that much more, I think.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are correct, sir.
I’m done trying to spin this positively.
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but Jerry abuses the privilege.
by AnthonyR on Jul 10, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cot
Ryan Church of
1 year/$2.8M (2009)
* 1 year/$2.8M (2009)
o re-signed by Mets 1/20/09 (avoided arbitration)
o performance bonuses: $50,000 for 400 PAs; $30,000 each for 450, 535 PAs; $40,000 for 550 PAs
Jeff Francoeur of
1 year/$3.375M (2009)
* 1 year/$3.375M (2009)
o re-signed by Atlanta 2/19/09 (avoided arbitration, $3.95M-$2.8M)
o performance bonus: $25,000 for 685 PAs
by Michkin on Jul 10, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was -3.0 WAR in 08, actually.
Seriously. That’s not a typo.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fangraphs says -1.3 WAR in 08. Did you get that from another source?
by Michkin on Jul 10, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baseballprojection's WAR database
http://www.baseballprojection.com/war/f/franj004.htm.
It uses TZ instead of UZR, I believe. That’s the one we use for our “Mets Best Seasons” series, I believe.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the deal...it's worth a shot in the dark (if your a crazy bastard)
I really don’t like the trade, but their is upside potential. Ryan Church was never going to hit enough to warrant a full time corner outfield spot on a contender.
That said, Franceour sucks balls. He isn’t going to hit enough to warrant a full time corner outfield spot on a contender either.
Advantage: Braves
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but Jerry abuses the privilege.
by AnthonyR on Jul 10, 2009 6:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No, it's not worth a shot in the dark
It’s been proven conclusively, for five years, that Francoeur struggles to OBP .300. He sucks.
by JoshNY on Jul 10, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know, please let me have this.
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but Jerry abuses the privilege.
by AnthonyR on Jul 10, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mother EFFER!!!!!
I could see if we had the Rangers batting coach, maybe this would be at all acceptable.
I guess Ryan Church is to blame for all our troubles. We should have known all along!
by David G on Jul 10, 2009 6:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This is a prank, right?
Please let this be a prank.
by JoshNY on Jul 10, 2009 6:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Omar
Say guys, I’ve got an idea! Lets take the one thing our offense is actually kind of good at, getting on base every now and then, and completely kick that in the balls. That’ll stop Tatis from hitting into all those double plays!
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Meddler on Jul 10, 2009 6:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think that played a facter
Seriously.
by David G on Jul 10, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That might help.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the problem is..
Ryan did not want to be in New York plus Jerry didn’t like him.
They jumped on the first opportunity to get him out of town.
"I told him the next time he does that, I’m going to get my blade out and cut him, right on the field. Hey, I’m a gangsta now. You go gangsta on me, I’m gonna have to get you now."
- Jerry Manuel
by dave the rave on Jul 10, 2009 6:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
and what the hell makes anyone think FRANCOEUR wants to be in New York?
Francoeur who grew up in Atlanta, and has been friends with Brian McCann since they were kids?
by JoshNY on Jul 10, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
no idea
good question. I guess we will find out.
"I told him the next time he does that, I’m going to get my blade out and cut him, right on the field. Hey, I’m a gangsta now. You go gangsta on me, I’m gonna have to get you now."
- Jerry Manuel
by dave the rave on Jul 10, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You really believe that?
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
absolutely
Would you want to be somewhere that your manager has no faith in you? Everytime you get on a hot streak they bench you? Plus that made it obvious him and Jerry didn’t have a great relationship.
I think it’s a no brainer that he didn’t want to be here.
I am not crazy about the trade but you can’t say he wanted to be here.
"I told him the next time he does that, I’m going to get my blade out and cut him, right on the field. Hey, I’m a gangsta now. You go gangsta on me, I’m gonna have to get you now."
- Jerry Manuel
by dave the rave on Jul 10, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, but how does that in any way excuse this trade?
by JoshNY on Jul 10, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha
It doesn’t. It’s Omar, whatd you expect?
"I told him the next time he does that, I’m going to get my blade out and cut him, right on the field. Hey, I’m a gangsta now. You go gangsta on me, I’m gonna have to get you now."
- Jerry Manuel
by dave the rave on Jul 10, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's not necessarily true.
I wouldn’t blame him if he didn’t like Jerry, but he probably liked a lot of his teammates. You can’t just say, “OH, X so Y.” You’d be just as bad as Fatcessa.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
at this level
You want to play and perform to the best of you abilites. I don’t think Jerry let him do that. If that was me i wouldn’t want to be there. But that’s all im saying. It doesn’t make the trade okay. But that is what Omar thinks i bet
"I told him the next time he does that, I’m going to get my blade out and cut him, right on the field. Hey, I’m a gangsta now. You go gangsta on me, I’m gonna have to get you now."
- Jerry Manuel
by dave the rave on Jul 10, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so fire Jerry's ass!
I feel like I should be done with this team until Fred Wilpon sells it or croaks. As long as he owns the team, they’re going to be run WFAN/NY Post-style, which is ridiculous.
Somehow, a chain of events unfolded that put Steve Phillips in a professional broadcast booth Sunday night so he could rip Carlos Beltran. Try to explain that in any other terms.
by Greenpoint Ian on Jul 10, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What scares me is that it is safe to say that Church and Blastro were not Manuel favorites.
I’m not a fan of our GM building the roster around a manager that should have been canned 2 months ago.
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but Jerry abuses the privilege.
by AnthonyR on Jul 10, 2009 6:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah, those assholes, with their "taking pitches" and shit
by JoshNY on Jul 10, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn basecloggers!
Frenchy’ll show ‘em how it’s done!
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
true that
i mean seriously. how are you supposed to strike out every time without swinging at every pitcher?
by wrightnumber5 on Jul 10, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
completely agree
"I told him the next time he does that, I’m going to get my blade out and cut him, right on the field. Hey, I’m a gangsta now. You go gangsta on me, I’m gonna have to get you now."
- Jerry Manuel
by dave the rave on Jul 10, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What can I say about this trade
that hasn’t already been said about Afghanistan? It looks bombed out and depleted.
by Zwill on Jul 10, 2009 6:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wright for Chipper coming next?
I’m ready for anything now. I’m not hoping for any more trades ever again under the Minaya reign.
by David G on Jul 10, 2009 6:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Fingers crossed
Maybe there is some other foolish GM out there with whom Omar is trying to dupe in an even better trade, and said other foolish GM happens to favor Francouer over Church? Maybe? Please????
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Meddler on Jul 10, 2009 6:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well KC traded for Betancourt
Who’s as awful as Failcouer.
by Zwill on Jul 10, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jeff Francouer was 3 WINS BELOW REPLACEMENT last season.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No he was -1.3 in 08
and -0.6 this year compared to Betancourt’s -0.8. They’re both horrendous.
by Zwill on Jul 10, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baseballprojection's database says otherwise.
Link
This is the one we’ve used for the “Mets Best/Worst Seasons At Specific Positions” series.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Churchie was one of the few guys I liked in our lineup
Not to mention his defense
by Michkin on Jul 10, 2009 6:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The defense today was supposed to be
Pagan LF, Reed CF, Church RF, and I was so thankful our we might actually be able to stop the other team from scoring at least 5 or 6 runs. But no. Dreams, crushed.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Meddler on Jul 10, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Update:
Brian Stokes has been included in the deal in return for 3 baseballs and a sixpack of 5 hour energy.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 6:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
what?
we have a guy named brian stokes?
by wrightnumber5 on Jul 10, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Church was in the lineup
On Yahoo a minute ago, too. Did they tell him take off his clothes in the locker and get the hell out. A fitting end it would be for the way they treated him.
by David G on Jul 10, 2009 6:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow.
Failcouer flipped for what I guess will become a solid RF platoon of Church against RHP and Diaz against lefties. Great trade, Bravos.
by dgriot on Jul 10, 2009 6:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Kill me.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny thing is
I hate the Phils, the Marlins are run by a criminal and ended our season 2 years in a row, and the Mets have no shot and in the long run, would be better off if they fell out of contention.
So Go Braves, Die Mets
Nothing can get by him; especially in a small room: Mike Francessa
by GenJackRipper on Jul 10, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How can you sit and say "go braves"
as a met fan
by Jadden Hopkins on Jul 10, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Extreme times call for extreme measures
The Braves are a well-run franchise who deserve their success and they are not run by Loria. I hate the Marlins and the Phillies worse. Since the Mets will not win the division, (God willing) the Braves are the team to root for in the east.
Go Braves!!
Nothing can get by him; especially in a small room: Mike Francessa
by GenJackRipper on Jul 10, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um...
I think the jury is no longer out on Omar Minaya. The sooner he’s gone, the better. The only upside here is that Church isn’t part of the Mets’ long term plans anyway, so it’s really a nothing trade. But it does show that Omar is totally unfit for his job. I think this trade lowers his reputation to the point where he is competing with Ed Wade and Brian Sabien to be the worst GM in baseball.
From worst to…third worst: Ed Wade/Sabien/Omar Minaya
Nothing can get by him; especially in a small room: Mike Francessa
by GenJackRipper on Jul 10, 2009 6:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I usually don't criticize Omar too heavily...
but this one just doesn’t make ANY sense.
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Schmidtxc on Jul 10, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless this is part of a bigger deal...
…but with our luck, they’ll flip Francouer for…oh wait, no one’s worse than Jeff Francouer.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oliver Perez is worse than him
but yea, that’s about it.
by cjmulrain on Jul 10, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Arb next year
I’m pretty sure
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Meddler on Jul 10, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Nichols Cerrone style italicized commentary from Metsblog
Francoeur, who is eligible for arbitration after this season, is batting .250 with 5 HR and 35 RBI this season.WTF
…love the deal…the Mets needed to shake up the roster…the potential francoeur has is much greater than that of church, plus the Mets lose nothing on the defensive side…
…welcome aboard, frenchy…
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Meddler on Jul 10, 2009 6:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
saw that too
and on loudmouths on sny all the callers plus the hosts say that they love the deal
again…
WTF
by wrightnumber5 on Jul 10, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hello hello..anybody in there
so Omar feels that trading for an OF who has lost all of his power, will somehow regain it now that he is playing in a bigger park?
Perhaps Omar just knows the ship has sunk and he wants it to be memorable. With Frenchy in the lineup everyday we can set the record for stranded runners.
oh wait, this is it I finally figured it out. Frency never saw a pitch he didn’t like so this will speed up the games. We only have to endure 2 and half hour losses and not 3 hour marathon losses.
by JDizzzy on Jul 10, 2009 6:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
good strategy
to shorten games lmao
by wrightnumber5 on Jul 10, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Loudmouths on SNY
The Loudmouths and so far all the callers are overwhelmingly praising this deal. I was ready to throw something through the screen. So, I had to come here to make sure I wasn’t taking crazy pills. Thank you loyal Amazin’ Avenue readers for reminding me that I have not yet gone insane.
by djbutler73 on Jul 10, 2009 6:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
could someone with a brain call Loudmouths and explain why this trade is so stupid?
by JoshNY on Jul 10, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this team is run by these people
Wilpon and Minaya do what the idiots in the Post and who call into WFAN and Loudmouths want. It’s an asinine way to build a ballclub, but it’s starting us in the face.
Literally any one of us who posts here could run this ballclub better than the current crop of idiots.
Somehow, a chain of events unfolded that put Steve Phillips in a professional broadcast booth Sunday night so he could rip Carlos Beltran. Try to explain that in any other terms.
by Greenpoint Ian on Jul 10, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm starting to feel like a
Memphis Grizzlies fan….hey Lakers, would you like to take Pau Gasol and give us back Kwame Brown? Thanks!
by David G on Jul 10, 2009 6:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I've got a good NY Post Headline!
Minaya Surrenders to French!
by David G on Jul 10, 2009 6:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Seriously, our best and worst Met season off day WAR series might have to be updated
Frenchy might break the bottom 10 in half a season.
Nothing can get by him; especially in a small room: Mike Francessa
by GenJackRipper on Jul 10, 2009 6:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
We traded +2.0 WAR for -1.9 WAR and we still PAID for that!!
Jeff Francoeur has been acquired from the Braves for Ryan Church and cash.
by Michkin on Jul 10, 2009 6:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
CASH?!?!?
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hopefully it was just the difference in his contract
cross your fingers
by wrightnumber5 on Jul 10, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
francoeur makes more money than church
by JoshNY on Jul 10, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah i know
hopefully thats what he ment by cash (probably not but i can hope)
by wrightnumber5 on Jul 10, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We added CASH to the deal?
Chuch can play all three OF positions. And, with the injuries to the Mets outfield, that flexibility alone is worth the $1.5 mil/year you save in getting Francoeur who can only play right field. Oh wait we didn’t save $1.5 million, we gave up cash to get Frenchy! This is ridiculous.
by djbutler73 on Jul 10, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
See, exactly like the Blastro deal.
They just wanted Church the hell out of here.
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but Jerry abuses the privilege.
by AnthonyR on Jul 10, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We added cash to the deal huh?
I’ll say it again.
Braves!! Braves!! Gooooo Braves!!!
Nothing can get by him; especially in a small room: Mike Francessa
by GenJackRipper on Jul 10, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Milledge
So we traded a guy we wanted the hell out of here, for a guy we wanted the hell out of here, and now we got Francoeur, who I assume we will immediately want the hell out of here.
by Mex_17 on Jul 10, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I wanted him the hell out of here when he came to visit Citi as a Brave.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I want him the hell out of here
But my opinion counts for squat. Who knows what Jerry will think of the guy.
Somehow, a chain of events unfolded that put Steve Phillips in a professional broadcast booth Sunday night so he could rip Carlos Beltran. Try to explain that in any other terms.
by Greenpoint Ian on Jul 10, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
F my life
He’s 25. He used to be good.
That’s all I got.
by Pat Andriola on Jul 10, 2009 6:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
look on the bright side
at least most of us here weren’t/won’t be past our primes at 25
by JoshNY on Jul 10, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't believe I'm saying it
But this is 50x worse than the Blastro deal.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 6:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No, at least we got a prospect.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
broadway isnt a prospect
he sucks
by wrightnumber5 on Jul 10, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quotes from Omar
“He has a good arm”
“Uhh, I believe he is 25 years old”
“We think there will be upside because of his age”
Stop it Omar, you don’t even know how old he is.
by djbutler73 on Jul 10, 2009 6:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Did he seriously say "There will be upside because of his age" and thought he was 25? Really?
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you know who else has a good arm?
Church
by JoshNY on Jul 10, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously.
Upside because of his age? So, he MAY end up being as good as Church IS RIGHT NOW?
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guess what Braves fans are saying?
http://www.talkingchop.com/2009/7/10/945142/frenchy-has-been-traded
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 6:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Mets Pre Game
Ridiculous. absoulutely ridiculous
by wrightnumber5 on Jul 10, 2009 6:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
By now, I fear for Socks! to be traded for another -3.0 WAR more expensive player
They god rid of Castro and Church and still paid for that. There is only Socks left in the doghouse now.
by Michkin on Jul 10, 2009 6:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Watch out, Murphy. It's only a matter of time until Omir Santos is the only legitimate superstar on this team.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ryan church
he doesnt seem very happy in his interview
quote “I will always love new york”
by wrightnumber5 on Jul 10, 2009 6:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad
Everyone who knows nothing about baseball loves this deal.
Marc Malusis, the biggest idiot I have ever seen, said about Jayson Werth just now “Everyone talks about stats. What about guts?”
STOP THE RACIST BULLSHIT
by Pat Andriola on Jul 10, 2009 6:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
um, is there something wrong with Jayson Werth's stats?
He’s the kind strike-gold acquisition that good GMs like Pat Gillick make and that idiots like Minaya could never do.
Somehow, a chain of events unfolded that put Steve Phillips in a professional broadcast booth Sunday night so he could rip Carlos Beltran. Try to explain that in any other terms.
by Greenpoint Ian on Jul 10, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Excuse me, what about that one guy on the Mets?
We unloaded a prospect in return for him as one of two players, but he had always been a platooner. Despite unfortunate and unlucky injuries, he provided great defense, never complained, and was debateably our team MVP for the first two months we got him. You know, Ryan Chur…
oh.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"They better change up the signs"
“I’m going to tell them everything”
Ryan Church rocks!
by djbutler73 on Jul 10, 2009 6:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I've never liked Ryan Church more than now
FML.
by Pat Andriola on Jul 10, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did he say that?
Good for him.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HAHA
For real? Hilarious.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Meddler on Jul 10, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he knows he just got dissed
he got traded for a guy who suuuuuuuuuuucks
by JoshNY on Jul 10, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
YES
because church got traded now we get to have Tatis in LF!!!!!
by wrightnumber5 on Jul 10, 2009 6:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
YES YES YES YES
at least since church wont get on base tatis cant hit into a double play!
by wrightnumber5 on Jul 10, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Pagan is back in CF
All of Manuel’s favorites except Omir Santos is strangely absent from the lineup
by djbutler73 on Jul 10, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fuck this
I’m going out to get shitfaced.
by jasondg on Jul 10, 2009 6:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Funny how
People still think there is some deep reasoning like when he expressed preference for Ollie over Lowe. People thought it was a bargaining ploy because they couldn’t understand how someone would prefer Ollie to Church.
Again, there is no reasoning here. Omar and Jerry and the Wilpons are fucking idiots. In order to understand them, you have to invert your reasoning. You have to learn how to think like Joe Benigno and Marc Malusis.
And I’m not watching one second of today’s met game.
Nothing can get by him; especially in a small room: Mike Francessa
by GenJackRipper on Jul 10, 2009 6:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
wow that is a lot of comments in 37 minutes
impressive guys.
by meigs1414 on Jul 10, 2009 6:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think a lot of people came here...
…after nearly choking on vomit listening to SNY Loudmouths and then pregame praising this deal as the best thing to happen to the Mets since the K-Rod signing.
by djbutler73 on Jul 10, 2009 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
at least I already had a shitty week so that this didn’t ruin the Friday of a good week
by JoshNY on Jul 10, 2009 6:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
good attitude
at least i know one persons week wont be ruined
by wrightnumber5 on Jul 10, 2009 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So
Santos > Castro
Ollie > Lowe
Church > Frenchy
Glad to know where we stand.
by Pat Andriola on Jul 10, 2009 6:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
obviously!
and nieve/redding/livan/olllie > Niese
by wrightnumber5 on Jul 10, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Castillo > Orlando Hudson
Somehow, a chain of events unfolded that put Steve Phillips in a professional broadcast booth Sunday night so he could rip Carlos Beltran. Try to explain that in any other terms.
by Greenpoint Ian on Jul 10, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget guys
Fernando Nieve is starting tonight
by Jadden Hopkins on Jul 10, 2009 6:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Fuck that
Leave him down there. All that’s going to happen if he gets called up is he’s going to get raped by the Mets crappy defense, the front office is going to give up on him, and they’re going to dump him for some negative value player. Leave him in triple-a, where at least he has Wilson Valdez to scoop up some of his groundballs, and just get him ready for next year.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Meddler on Jul 10, 2009 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was already kind of thinking along those lines before this deal
Now that the Mets have hurt their defense even more, screw it. I don’t want Niese getting made a part of this clusterfuck just so he can get blamed for crap that isn’t his fault.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Meddler on Jul 10, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The AJC is reporting that the Braves actually sent cash to the Mets
I still hate the trade, but at least we’re not paying the Braves on top of this trade.
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Schmidtxc on Jul 10, 2009 6:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah this was said in the press conference
still sucks donkey ass
by Pat Andriola on Jul 10, 2009 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
NY Post says Mets sent cash
Bart Hubbuch (NY Post) on Twitter: The #Mets also sent cash to the #Braves in the Ryan Church-Jeff Francoeur trade.
by djbutler73 on Jul 10, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Update:
We will demote Nick Evans after the game, to make room for Jeff Francouer.
…
…
…
………..
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 6:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Evans was already demoted
For Pagan.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Meddler on Jul 10, 2009 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I know.
But it just stuns me.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hate this team's front office
I know, I say it all the time, but I have to say it again.
Somehow, a chain of events unfolded that put Steve Phillips in a professional broadcast booth Sunday night so he could rip Carlos Beltran. Try to explain that in any other terms.
by Greenpoint Ian on Jul 10, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he was demoted earlier
but they called him back up wen church got traded
by wrightnumber5 on Jul 10, 2009 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah it looks like
They just used Church’s roster spot for Pagan for today and tomorrow Failcouer will replace Evans.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Meddler on Jul 10, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Evans demoted for Pagan
So tomorrow Frenchy replaces Tatis.
by djbutler73 on Jul 10, 2009 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who gets church's spot then?
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Schmidtxc on Jul 10, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean Church?
Tatis isn’t going anywhere. The net of this tomorrow will be
Roster subtractions:
Ryan Church
Nick Evans
Roster additions
Jeff Failcouer
Angel Pagan
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Meddler on Jul 10, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's a massive load of fail
(hit enter by accident on the previous post)
by cjmulrain on Jul 10, 2009 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I foresee Frenchy getting injured in less than 1 month, while Churchie is in the "defense play of the week video"
by Michkin on Jul 10, 2009 6:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
And sadly I would laugh...
what kind of Mets fan have I become. I’m going to the game tomorrow for the food and not Johan. That’s how bad things have gotten.
by djbutler73 on Jul 10, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why is Church run out of town
but Tatis is starting?
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 6:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I guarantee
we could’ve gotten Frenchy for Tatis
If the Braves have any clue.
by Pat Andriola on Jul 10, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a stretch...
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Schmidtxc on Jul 10, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look at the bright side...
At least we get to make fun of this schmuck while we’re losing! We weren’t gonna win anyway.
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but Jerry abuses the privilege.
by AnthonyR on Jul 10, 2009 6:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He's just arb eligible this year
Get used to him.
by Pat Andriola on Jul 10, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If this continues, we're going to be losing for quite a while.
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but Jerry abuses the privilege.
by AnthonyR on Jul 10, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kevin Burkhardt
Fair and balanced on the trade… he’ll be fired at the season.
by djbutler73 on Jul 10, 2009 6:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Burkhardt
Paraphrasing—-
Frenchy: Strong arm, Young, Used to have power slumped last two years
Church: Better defender, never got a chance and was never going to get a chance
Perfect time for change of scenery for both, but whether this deal is good will depend on long term because this deal was about the future not this year.
by djbutler73 on Jul 10, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
really fair and balanced?
Or Fox News “fair and balanced” where he says this is the best trade the Mets have made since getting Keith Hernandez?
Somehow, a chain of events unfolded that put Steve Phillips in a professional broadcast booth Sunday night so he could rip Carlos Beltran. Try to explain that in any other terms.
by Greenpoint Ian on Jul 10, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if it wasn't the Braves
I could wish all the best for Church, who I really like. I could hope he smashes at an unprecedented clip and he fucking rocks it and shows the Mets how dumb dumb dumb they are.
But it’s the Braves! I don’t know what to feel. Honestly. I’m just kinda, “Whatevs. Figures.”
batting helmets. batting titles. obp.
by Durelo on Jul 10, 2009 6:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Mets FO think they can fix the world
Fix Ollie = Sandy Koufax
Fix Castillo = Gold Glove
Fix Broadway = Cy Young
Fix Frenchy = MVP (!?)
by Michkin on Jul 10, 2009 6:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
GAR
Grission Above Replacement – edge Francoeur? FML.
by pricedoutoftheciti on Jul 10, 2009 6:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What does GAR have to say about
Worsening plate discipline, dude is swinging less at actual strikes.
by djbutler73 on Jul 10, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reading Comments from Braves Fans
on the trade… and crying.
by djbutler73 on Jul 10, 2009 6:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This is the Omar-"the grass is greener on the other side of the fence"
Except we traded soil for sand.
Exactly the “make any trade for the sake of trading” type of deal
by Michkin on Jul 10, 2009 6:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
We all knew it was gonna happen.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 6:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don’t hate it. Church was 30, couldn’t stay healthy, and had seemingly lost his power. Frenchy hasn’t been great, but his numbers this RBI and HR totals are better than Church, and he has the youth/potential. I think it’s a combo of shaking things up, and giving up a decent RF for a potentially very good RF……i don’t mind it.
by ljshorty89 on Jul 10, 2009 7:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I hate to be mean
but you’re drinking the Kool-Aid if you believe Francoeur is “potentially very good”.
by JoshNY on Jul 10, 2009 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry
but you sir are very wrong
by wrightnumber5 on Jul 10, 2009 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll take it a step farther
You sir, are very wrong stupid and guillable
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right, so his first 3 seasons of .280/.319/.463 are SOOO much worse than Church’s career .273/.345/.444?
by ljshorty89 on Jul 10, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sometimes, when a team gives up on you(like the Mets did on Church and the Braves did on Frenchy), you need a change of scenery. Burkhardt said that Frenchy had expressed interest in playing in NY.
by ljshorty89 on Jul 10, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He hasn't been that player in a while
it seems likely that people figured out that you don’t have to throw anything close to the plate.
On balance this isn’t the kind of deal that is likely to change either team’s fortunes. What has people so steamed is that this is a silly gamble. There is pretty much no way this deal improves the team. That’s kind of the raison d’etre for your GM; to make deals likely to improve the team.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
by dcrockett17 on Jul 10, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually agree with most of what you said here. It’s not going to change either team’s fortune. The thing is, that the reason the trade was made is to change SOMETHING, ANYTHING. That’s what I’ve heard fans BEGGING for all season. Just make a trade to change the furniture around. Francouer is a worthwhile gamble….he’s younger, and he’s locked up for an extra season(and only if we WANT him). Church is not getting any better, he’s an injury prone vet who’s past his prime and is mediocre at best. I’d take a gamble on Francouer getting back to the potential he showed for two seasons….
by ljshorty89 on Jul 11, 2009 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then you're a fucking idiot. I'm sorry, I've tried to explain it as best I can.
But the bottom line is, you don’t give up positive value for negative value. Ever…EVER.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 11, 2009 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like how you use "first" seasons
and avoid talking about Frenchy’s 2008 and 2009.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok. So you’re saying that one bad season(2008), and a half season this year that’s not significantly worse than Church’s mean he’s the worst player ever? All of the people complaining obviously forget that the Mets have one of the best team OBP’s in the league (somehow). Adding a guy with POWER, YOUTH, and the potential to actually improve, instead of regress like Church, I see no problem with this trade.
by ljshorty89 on Jul 10, 2009 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Youth?
He’s 25, it’s not like he’s the same age as Fernando Martinez. This is the same crap people bought into about Oliver Perez.
Also, Francoeur is slugging .352 this year. Church is slugging .375. Yes, in one fluky year, he hit 29 home runs. But his SLG has been trending downward year by year. His OBP has also, somehow, managed to get even worse each year of the past three. Jose Reyes was 23 when he learned how to take pitches, but that was after basically one full season in the majors. Francoeur has had three. He is who he is.
by JoshNY on Jul 10, 2009 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention his ungodly OBP.
Power? Worse SLG than Church
Youth? He’s steadily declined since 05, and Oliver Perez’s biggest asset was his youth, right?
Potential to improve? Again, he’s only regressed, and he has the worst plate discipline probably of anyone in baseball. This trade sucks monkey balls.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is part of the reason I prefer Metsblog in some areas to AA. When I come to this site, I hear 1000 people giving me the same ONE statistic as if it is the be all and end all. OBP isn’t the greatest stat in the world. Who gives a rat’s ass? Let Reyes, Castillo, Beltran, and Wright get on base, if Francouer hits .265, 25, 90, that’s better to me than Church’s .275, 15, 65 any day of the week, regardless of OBP.
by ljshorty89 on Jul 10, 2009 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
RBIs are shit.
Also, Francouer doesn’t hit 25 HR, and he especially won’t in Citi Field. Please, go back to Metsblog if you think facts aren’t good enough for you.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then don't read here
Keep getting Cerrowned by Cerroneous Maximus and co.
by James Kannengieser on Jul 10, 2009 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow. Nice inviting attitude you’ve got going here. I read both sites. Both are good reading, both have interesting things to say. The difference to me is that everyone here believes that one way of thinking is the ONLY way of thinking. To me, i prefer getting various viewpoints. But if you’re all going to bash me because you’re Billy Beane clones in love with OBP, fine….
by ljshorty89 on Jul 11, 2009 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, seriously, you're getting the "inviting attitude" for a reason.
Bullshit like “Billy Beane clones” is really not welcome here. What’s next? Is it going to be “Mom’s basement” or “the game isn’t played by computers”? Start acting like a rational person who has any idea about baseball and you’ll get a friendly welcome; keep posting idiotic Scottyisms about how RBI are more important than OBP, and we’ll all invite you to return permanently to Metsblog.
by anonymous on Jul 11, 2009 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This
If you think AA is all about citing 1 statistic over and over to prove some sort of “Moneyball” point, then you obviously don’t read the front page content or ensuing discussion. If you think AA is all about statistics and nothing more, then once again you obviously don’t read the front page content or ensuing discussion. We are “inviting” to everyone, but stress intelligent discourse. Everyone here does not believe in “one way of thinking” – we are open to all ways of thinking, as long as they are fact based and supported by evidence. Opinion without evidence = Worthless. Telling us that you don’t care about Francoeur’s OBP because of RBI totals is not worthwhile discussion, and all community members here are justified in telling you as much.
by James Kannengieser on Jul 11, 2009 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I gave my opinion and have been lambasted. The fact of the matter is that Ryan Church is average. Francouer has had a bad season and a half, but in my mind, it is more likely that Francouer gets back to his first 3 seasons than Church actually putting up numbers capable of being better than a 7 hitter. Regardless of his OBP, Church has 3 HR this season. THREE. If Francouer gives up some OBP in order to give us power, then in many cases, that’s not a terrible trade. He’s 25….he hasn’t even entered his prime yet. I just don’t understand why everyone here believes that Francouer COULD have had 2 fluke good seasons, but the idea of him having 2 fluke BAD seasons is impossible.
by ljshorty89 on Jul 11, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Francoeur has 5 HR this season. FIVE.
And a LOWER SLG than Church. That’s some power he’s got there.
by JoshNY on Jul 11, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But what IS your other line of thinking?
So you’re saying Francouer is more valuable than Church because he gets more RBIs and HRs? Even though Church has a higher SLG and OBP? Because if you looked at ANY park adjusted stats, you’d understand your complete inaneness right now.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 11, 2009 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m saying that Church’s OBP is great, but he has no power left. He as 3 HR this year. Right now, he’s a 7 hitter on a good team. Francouer, in my mind, is worth the gamble that he can get back to his hitting he showed for 3 seasons. I think Francouer is more likely to stay healthy, improve, and benefit the team. If you disagree, fine, but I find it ridiculous that no one here can stop and realize that Francouer actually COULD help the team.
by ljshorty89 on Jul 11, 2009 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you understand what SLG is?
It’s the best metric for power. Francouer has 2 more HRs than Church. FINE. But you DO realize Church has 4 more 2Bs, right? All together, Church and Francouer have the same number of extra base hits, while Church has done it in 100 less at-bats and at a more difficult ballpark. Really, you have no argument.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 11, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You, my friend, are incorrect on so many levels. First of all, Reyes debuted at age 19, one day before his 20th birthday. So while he may have had onle one FULL season, he had played in the majors for parts of 3 seasons. Additionally, believe it or not, OBP is not the ultimate statistic in the world. Again, there’s every likelihood that a simple change of scenery can have a positive effect, we’ve all seen it before. The Braves had clearly given up on him (demoting him last year, benching him for a time this year), and to be honest, I don’t think Church is capable of anymore than .280, 10-15 HR, 70 RBI at this point. Regardless of OBP, Francouer will drive in more runs, and is more of a HR threat. End of story. We don’t need 9 OBP guys, we need guys who score or drive in runs. Church hasn’t been untouchable since the 2nd concussion, and he’s had trouble staying healthy.
by ljshorty89 on Jul 10, 2009 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"not the ultimate statistic"?
It’s certainly far, far better than the brain-dead ones you’re basing your argument on.
by anonymous on Jul 10, 2009 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
RBIS ftw!!!!!!!!
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not saying that RBI’s are a good statistic, they’re not. But creating a lineup full of high OBP players with NO POWER isn’t going to win you anything either. Church is 30, is injury prone, and, I’m willing to bet that he will never even come close to matching his start to last season.
Franceour is going to play every day, he’s going to bring energy, youth, and the desire to get better as a player. Church just isn’t gonna get better at age 30 unless he goes the Bonds route. So, I mean, if you accept the fact that we’re not gonna win this season, it seems like you’re trading 2 mediocre RF’s for each other. We got the younger one, and we got cash. I’d say that’s not quite “a moronic trade”
by ljshorty89 on Jul 11, 2009 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What makes you think Francoeur has any "desire" to get better as a player?
In fact, he’s gotten worse every year since he came up.
Church’s injuries were all freak accidents: running into a wall to make a catch, colliding in an on-field collision, getting kung fu kicked in the face by Yunel Escobar, etc.
Energy? Youth? I call bullshit. Even Braves fans that thought he was good still were turning on him because he was becoming a whiny little bitch, complaining when he was sent down for 3 days. 3 days!
And again, statistically, Church is an AVERAGE RF. Francouer is a TERRIBLE RF, one of the worst players in baseball. That is a HUGE difference, and absolutely a “moronic trade.”
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 11, 2009 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, Church’s injuries were “freak accidents”…..what about his Hammy? He’s 30, he is now past his prime, and his body is clearly on the verge of breaking down.
Francouer said in his phone call with Burkhardt that he was “FIRED UP” to come to NY. He wants to be here, and he wants to win. It’s clear. Church did too, but this team didn’t win in a season and a half with Church, maybe it’s time to try something else(since that’s what everyone was begging Minaya to do, just make ANY trade)
by ljshorty89 on Jul 11, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If someone told me I could come to New York and play for the Mets
I’d be fired up, and want to win. Doesn’t mean I’d help at ALL. And that’s the thing. I WASN’T begging Minaya to make a trade. This is exactly why. So the Mets didn’t win in a season in a half with 1 player out of 25 on the roster, despite the fact that the player in question was one of the top 10 players on that roster. So it’s that players fault? You’re just a moron, man.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 11, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Making any trade simply for the sake of making a trade
because WFAN callers and NY Post writers say that’s what Omar should do is the height of stupidity.
by JoshNY on Jul 11, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's FIRED UP!?!?!?!?!?!?!
This changes everything!!!
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
by Evan_S on Jul 11, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you even realize that Church has a higher SLG than Francouer?
Did you even realize that Frenchy hit 11 HRs last season and is moving to Citi Field?
Did you look at ANY stats to back up your claims? Let alone facts?
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's the thing
look, I get that if we have a lineup of 8 high OBP, low power guys we might struggle to score runs and you’d probably be better off sacrificing some OBP for a guy with legit power. BUT THAT’S NOT FRANCOUER. His OBP is SO bad, his power isn’t that good (and probably not any better than Church), he’s not a great fielder, etc. You’d probably get just as much production by just sticking Nick Evans in right for the rest of the season. Just a stupid, stupid trade.
by cjmulrain on Jul 10, 2009 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His ISO is below .110.
Blah.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Church? Church’s power is gone. Whatever it is the guy can’t get the ball over an outfielder’s head, let alone over the fence. Church is a 30 year old AVERAGE outfielder that will not get any better than his stats right now. He’s not gonna hit .300, he’s not gonna hit 20 HR, he’s not gonna stay healthy. Francouer is a young guy(25 is young, stop comparing him to Perez) who has a desire to play in NY, and has shown that he has talent. I don’t believe talent just disappears. He looked like a star for two years. So, you think that he had 2 fluke GOOD years…..but he couldn’t POSSIBLY have had 2 fluke BAD years? That doesn’t make sense to me….
by ljshorty89 on Jul 11, 2009 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude
1.) I don’t care what this guy says…he wants no part of NY
2.) Once pitchers realized that the guy has less plate discipline than Omir Santos, THAT is when his statistics leveled off. It’s not an issue of talent but an issue of him being a flawed player
3.) If you look at tape of his swing from 2006 and now, he is an obvious wreck. Something is broken.
These are non-statistical, Metsblogy things that should compute. Add that to the fact that we traded a positive WAR Player for a negative WAR Player, he has less range than Church and has an OBP (last) and SLG% (2nd to last) that ranks at THE VERY BOTTOM OF ALL MLB RIGHTFIELDERS, that should kinda tell you that this wasn’t our best move.
There isn’t a whole lot of debate to be had here my friend.
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but Jerry abuses the privilege.
by AnthonyR on Jul 11, 2009 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thing is
what’s been more recent? The good years or bad years? And what’s he doing RIGHT NOW? And even when he came up, he walked at a ridiculous low rate. His pitch recognition sucked. Braves fans have told me this half a dozen times, once the book went out on Frenchy’s lack of patience, pitchers just didn’t give him things to hit, and he’d just chop away anyway. He’s like Omir Santos, but not at a good defensive position.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 11, 2009 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He looked like a star or two years?
Which ones?
2005: .370 wOBA (.341 BABIP – Fluke!)
2006: .308 wOBA (.286 BABIP)
2007: .337 wOBA (.342 BABIP – Fluke!)
2008: .286 wOBA (.277 BABIP)
2009: .278 wOBA (.281 BABIP)
Meanwhile Church is has a career .342 wOBA
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
by Evan_S on Jul 11, 2009 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If talent doesn't just disappear
maybe we should put in calls to Alex Ochoa, Alex Escobar, and Jay Payton to be our outfielders for the rest of the year
by cjmulrain on Jul 11, 2009 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those guys never showed talent. Payton was average, and the other two were shitty major leaguers. There’s a difference between potential and talent. Those guys were expected to be good but never produced. Francouer has produced in the past.
by ljshorty89 on Jul 11, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dontrelle Willis used to be pretty good, I heard.
Would you trade Mike Pelfrey for him?
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 11, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Francoeur has shown that he's mediocre in the past
See Evan_S’s post above.
by JoshNY on Jul 11, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he produced for 2 months
if that’s what you mean by talent, than excuse me, just replace the guys I mentioned above with Benny Agbayani, Shane Spencer, and Timo Perez
by cjmulrain on Jul 11, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Best part of this is
Jerry will finally break his platoon fetish and play Frenchy every day.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 10, 2009 7:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This is Omar's "Chasing Ollie" or "Chasing Maine" moment
He once found a couple of decent pitchers as throw ins and they won 15 games. Since then he’s always been chasing “upside potential” with idiotic trades and signings like this. Can someone please fire this hapless s.o.b.? Like today?
by David G on Jul 10, 2009 7:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Guys, chill out
Francouer won a Gold Glove and finished 3rd in Rookie of the Year voting. Church didn’t do either of those things. Clearly Francouer >>>>> Church.
by cjmulrain on Jul 10, 2009 7:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I can't believe that at some point...
I was actually looking at this trade in a positive light, I’ve just been reading through Fan Graphs and its amazing how much better Church is than Francoer.
I never dreamed that Church was(Albeit small-ish sample size)a + defender in CF.
This trade is truly bad.
by Ohpityme on Jul 11, 2009 8:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
Frangraphs really hammered home a trade that I already thought was stupid.
"We have to find a way to play better, there's no doubt. Overall. I'm not pointing fingers at anybody. Offense, defense, pitching -- we have to find a way to play better. The reality of this is, coming here to Pittsburgh and being swept -- personally, I feel embarrassed." -- Carlos Beltran
by EMSfan9 on Jul 11, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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