If Omar Trades Youth To Save This Season He Should Be Fired

by Major on Jul 19, 2009 11:07 AM EDT Comment 33 comments

The 2009 National League Baseball Season in New York is over. The Mets will not have a New York Knick Willis Reed moment of players returning to provide a lift to the World Series. The Met players will not play critical games in September other than the role of spoiler. However, Omar and the front office has the spotlight and decisions made in the next few weeks will determine the Mets championship future. The media and the fans are livid at the season the Mets are having and rightfully so but no fan with a brain couldn't see this coming. The problem and maybe the flaw in this season is that the mets aren't playing with the full squad. Injuries will be blamed for this season when really the MLB ready depth of our farm was exposed and David Wright has taken a step back from the super-duperstar we all think he is.

I'd much rather the team had lost with all the players healthy so there could be a clear avenue to take. As it stands now, the team cannot trade Reyes, Wright or Beltran without major backlash. Likewise, the team cannot trade Niese, Holt, Marte, F-Mart, Parnell, or Flores to try and jumpstart the big club to save this season. So what must be done here to improve the team? I say start moving the dead weight like Castillo, who is having a good season, Schneider, Sheffield and Feliciano. Trade or release Hernandez and Redding and let Niese and Holt pitch the rest of the season.

As a matter of fact I think the Mets should move to a 6 man rotation or DL Johan Santana. He is clearly bothered by something physically so give our workhorse some rest for next season. It makes no sense for him to push himself since he isn't in position to win the Cy Young. The Mets need to erase whatever Daniel Murphy did earlier this season and give him a clean slate for August and September to show what he's got at first. Shut Reyes down, shut John Maine down, shut Beltran down and let the kids play and the wounded heal.

Trading away prospects would be an incredibly bad move. The mets may not have a ton of MLB ready prospects at AAA but the farm is very healthy in single A and double AA in terms of potential MLB players. Chips that are not being looked at today could have incredible value next year and beyond. Imagine what a 20 year old Flores could bring you in trade value?

Omar must open up the positions that need to be improved and not trade away the prospects that have not been graded fairly because they are young and play in the lower levels of the minors. We need flexibilty more than players. It is tough for a team with 150 million dollar payroll to concede a season but strategically, it is the best move the Mets can make. Freeing up dollars and keeping your top prospects only strengthens you in the long run in case you do decide to trade a Reyes next year, you have a more seasoned Flores to replace him, thats strength. If we start seeing these kids go for rentals and borderline stars, then we know that Minaya has no plan.

The next few weeks will prove what kind of GM and front office the Mets really have. They will either stick to their guns and make moves for the future or they will crumble under the pressure and try to cover their own asses with bogus trades that will cripple the farm. On the flip side, not trading Castillo, Schneider and Sheffield is just as bad because it doesn't change anything at all. Omar is in the bind of his career and his path will determine if his career in New York continues.

0 recs | Comment 33 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Ok...

I think it’s pretty obvious that Omar should be fired anyway.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Jul 19, 2009 11:59 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs

yes

Not that I disagree, but “if X then Omar should be fired” is true for all values of X.

by anonymous on Jul 19, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

it's pretty clear..

I don’t care about injuries or what he will do in the upcoming weeks. He should be gone no matter what.

"I told him the next time he does that, I’m going to get my blade out and cut him, right on the field. Hey, I’m a gangsta now. You go gangsta on me, I’m gonna have to get you now."
- Jerry Manuel

by dave the rave on Jul 20, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The season IS lost......

Some numbers:

Starting today, the Mets are 43-47.

Lets assume for a second that to have a shot, they must win at least the same number of games as last year (87).

With 72 games left, they need to go 44-28. This is just not possible with no offense, and only Johan carrying his weight as far as the starters go.

No trade is possible that will plug even two of the 4 or 5 holes we currently have regardless of pitching or hitting.

The worst thing that can happen to this team is that they somehow manage to make a run and finish say 5 games out, and over .500………then Minaya and Bernazard can hide behind the injuries. The only way this team will go forward is to finish far back, and ownership makes wholesale personnel changes.

" Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. "

by fxcarden@yahoo.com on Jul 19, 2009 2:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

If your point is that Omar should be fired, then most people here will agree with you.

If you really think the season is over with 72 games to play, you need to adjust your thinking. The Mets have enough divisional game that they control their own fate at this point. 8 out with 72 to go is alot to overcome, but it’s not nearly impossible. The Mets lost a 7 game lead in 17 games 2 season ago, 8 games back with 72 to play is not impossible.

If you really believe that winning ballgames and playing respectable baseball is the worst thing that can happen to this team, you really need to look at why you enjoy baseball. If everything short of a championship is an utter failure, there’s a team in the Bronx for you. If you can’t enjoy watching the Mets win simply because they are not a championship club, stick to Metsblog.

"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."

-Jim Fregosi

by Schmidtxc on Jul 19, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're missing the point.

it’s one thing to be optimistic, another to be delusional. And with all due respect, if you think this team has a shot at winning the division or making the playoffs, you’re delusional.

Schmidtxc, while the first paragraph of your post may be factually correct, it doesn’t account for how bad this team is right now. Now, if the Mets had a healthy roster I would be with you, but when you’re throwing out the lineup with the kind of talent the Mets are throwing out there right now I don’t see how you can chastise someone for giving up on the season.

Also, IMO, fxcarden makes a good point. The injuries are obscuring the bigger problem with this franchise: the complete and utter lack of any semblance of a plan. I believe it was joshNY who noted in another thread how every offseason Minaya goes about fixing “THE PROBLEM” and thinks everything will be peaches the following year. When Minaya was hired he promised to make the team younger and more athletic and implied that there would be a philosophy that would be implemented through every level of the organization. I believe he and Willie made references to developing a philosophy of what Met baseball would be. Anyway, a very successful 2006 season, the plan (if there was even a plan to begin with) has gone out the window. For this franchise to be successful going forward, Minaya needs to stop being a hole filler and focus on making decisions according to a plan.

I also take issue with this:

If you really believe that winning ballgames and playing respectable baseball is the worst thing that can happen to this team, you really need to look at why you enjoy baseball.

I think it’s pretty obnoxious to tell him to go root for the Yankees for expressing his viewpoint. Just because a fan takes a long term view doesn’t necessarily mean that he only cares about championships. If fxcarden doesn’t believe Minaya is the man to lead this organization forward, then winning would probably be worse for the franchise in the long run, because Minaya would could just fall back on the injury excuse. Anything short than a total failure and Minaya is probably hanging around after this season.

by SQUAD on Jul 19, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I fail to see how the injuries are obscuring bigger problems.

The major issue with Minaya’s time here is that he has focused on adding superstar players, many acquired by trade, while not being able to surround them with adequate help. A healthy roster would be more competitive, but it would only mask the glaring holes that are there. All of these injuries have simply brought the issues we all have with Minaya to the forefront. If all the injured players returned tomorrow and the Mets won the division, it wouldn’t be able to obscure the fact that the depth in this organization needs to be addressed. That issue is very much in the open now, and it has been brought into the forefront because of the injuries, not masked by them. While the injuries may save Minaya’s job, they are not hiding the problems with this organization.

My issue with his comments are simple. If you are a fan of a team, watching that team suceed should never be the “worst case scenario”. I think just about everybody posting here would agree that the long term sucess of the Mets would be greater if Minaya was no longer in charge, but that is solely dependant on Wilpon realizing that he is not the man for the job. The issue of organizational depth is very much in the open, and I’m sure Wilpon can see it. To me, wishing that the GM gets fired isn’t reason to hope the Mets can’t compete. I don’t like Minaya, but I’m not going to think any more or less of him if this team goes the rest of the way in the tank. With almost 1/2 the season still to be played, there is still plenty that could happen.

I understand that you don’t like Minaya, neither do I. If Wilpon replaced Omar with a great GM, the team would surely be in a better position long term. My issue, however, is that a Mets fan should not view winning as a bad thing to see a GM fired. When it comes to that point, people need to question why they cheer for a team. Is anybody here a Mets fan due to Steve Phillips? Jim Duquette? We’re Mets fans in spite of these guys, not because of them. I can see the argument that losing could be beneficial to the franchise, but with 72 games remaining I think it’s way to early to take that stance.

"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."

-Jim Fregosi

by Schmidtxc on Jul 19, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No thanks on the rooting for the Yankees offer.

While I understand your point about the “worst case scenario” let me direct your attention to what the GM said after last year’s collapse:

“Well, we won one more game this year than we did last year, so I think we had a good year”

This is why this team needs a complete enema. Complacency and experiments won’t get it done. Either you play with the big boys, or you cut bait and overhaul the team.

" Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. "

by fxcarden@yahoo.com on Jul 19, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is another over-reactionary response.

The Mets record was respectable the last two seasons. They have plenty of good core talent in place. Overhauling a team like that is typical Mike Francessa melodrama. Omar simply had to add several complimentary pieces, instead of looking for boom or bust type players. Step back and relax, if the season plays out the way it is going we’ll still start at 0-0 next spring. Reyes, Wright, Santana, Beltran, and K-rod will all still be here (should be here). Castillo has been decent this year, and isn’t really a black hole. The team will have holes to fill in left, catcher, and 1st. They could also probably use a starter and another bullpen arm or two. There should be plenty of cash available with the subtractions of Putz, Delgado, Wagner, Castro, Schoewies, Redding, Cora, and Schnieder’s contracts. All Omar (or hopefully a good GM) needs to look for is good everday players. Enough of the boom or bust guys, just look for solid everyday players.

"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."

-Jim Fregosi

by Schmidtxc on Jul 19, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're looking at this too black and white.

He didn’t say: “I really hope this team tanks so Omar gets fired.” Now I may be wrong, but I don’t think he or any Met fan would openly root for them to lose. Like I said above, to pretend like this team is an actual contender is delusional, although you can still root for a miracle, like Mr. Berg’s post over at SNY discusses.

I’ve already seen what the Mets do when they pretend that the team is actually capable of competing. Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano happens.

by SQUAD on Jul 20, 2009 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks.

" Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. "

by fxcarden@yahoo.com on Jul 19, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I dissagree with you on Wright

I think he’s one of the best players to ever don a Mets Uniform in my lifetime. He’s up there with the Hojos, Dykstras and Piazzas that have played here.

Even with lousy power numbers he is still very effective. His biggest problem is the guys hitting in front of him and behind him. I think the guy could easily have 70 walks right now if we didn’t have him as our only effective hitter.

Wright is having a bit of an off year though. Even in an off year it’s putting up good numbers and finding other ways to contribute. I think those that point to Reyes and Wright being the problem here should take a good look at the direction this season has gone.

Last year I was worried about what this Mets team would look like just with the loss of Reyes. We are getting a good look right now. It’s not pretty.

by Chickendirt on Jul 19, 2009 4:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I would have to agree

Injuries will be blamed for this season when really the MLB ready depth of our farm was exposed and David Wright has taken a step back from the super-duperstar we all think he is.

He hasn’t taken a step back. Look at that lineup he has around him. With that garbage “protecting” him he is still batting .322. Just because he doesn’t have 25 homeruns and wont finish with 100+ RBIs doesn’t mean he has taken a step back. You must look at the big picture and who he has around him. He hasn’t really been pitched to all year and why would you when you have a bunch of guys behind him that shouldn’t even be playing.

And if you are going to trade Castillo, Schneider, ect. who are you really going to get back? You will not be getting back anyone that will rebuild the farm plus GMs aren’t stupid, they know the state of the Mets, they wouldn’t give up anyone of value or take on Castillo’s contract in my opinion.

by dave the rave on Jul 20, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well it is true that Wright

Hasn’t been a super-duperstar this year. In fact, there was a debate as to whether his absurd BABIP was actually masking some pretty poor play on his part. I think the important thing to remember is, at least a good portion of this is just bad luck, just as much as a good portion of his high BABIP is just luck. If someone told you going into the season that Wright was going to finish with <20 HR, I think most of us would have said it seemed very unlikely, but obviously not impossible. A half season of “good but not great” just isn’t enough to identify a cogent shift in his ability, though those Citi Field fences do need to be pulled in a bit.

As for Castillo and Schneider, I think if you can trade them you do it, even if its only for the money. Trading them really doesn’t cost you anything, but keeping them will at least cost you some dollars, and especially in Castillo’s case, not unloading him when you have the chance could cost the team wins in the next two seasons. Just because he’s the second best player on the current team doesn’t mean there are far cheaper and more fiscally sound options out there.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Meddler on Jul 20, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

true but

Do you really see that chance to unload Castillo?

by dave the rave on Jul 20, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No

But my point is its not a question of getting fair value. Just getting rid of him with little or no cost to the team is a win, so if its possible, the return isn’t important. But I do agree that the hypothetical “if its possible” in this statement might be faulty.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Meddler on Jul 20, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

One problem.

“Freeing up dollars” won’t be as easy as you think— most of the salable players on this team are either signed to minimal-financial-commitment deals (Sheff, Livan) or are players for whom the Mets would have to eat a LOT of money to move (Castillo, Schneider).

That’s beside the point that deadline deals for rentals don’t tend to produce what they used to… even for relative prime meat like, say, Holliday.

(Not that I disagree with your basic thrust.)

by LeiterMilnerFasterStronger on Jul 19, 2009 4:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Sure trading those guys would bring limited cash but every little bit counts

More importantly, trading those players allows the team to get better.

by Major on Jul 19, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not sure trading them would bring any cash

Most of the offers we got for Castillo last year, allegedly, had us taking on worse contracts.

by Gina on Jul 26, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Biggest issue I have with this post is

this isn’t fantasy baseball, or a video game. The Mets have a new stadium. They spent a lot of money on that stadium, and on the team they put on the field. It’s very easy for us to stand here and say, “the team should shut down and stop trying for this year, it’s over.” But that kind of attitude is not going to fly very far with the general fan population, and not just for this year either.

In New York, the idea of a quitter is not looked upon very kindly. Think about how hard it is already to get the energy to go to a game, or watch one on TV. Fans that don’t care enough about the team to post on message boards will very likely not go to games for the rest of the season, and that could very easily carry over to next year as well.

If that happens, the Mets lose money, a lot of money, the Wilpons wake up, maybe fire Minaya. Minaya is likely to realize this, and as such will not give up on the season. He might (hopefully) not break open the piggy bank/farm for this year, but he won’t shut down Santana or come out and give up. That’s what i think the Frenchie deal could have been: doing something that looks like movement and won’t absolutely kill the team now or later. Again, that’s assuming Minaya is smartish.

Point is, he’s not going to end the season, at least officially. Jury’s still out on how poorly he fucks things up for the future.

David Eckstein: so gritty they would eat him in the south for breakfast with some butter and sprinkle cheese.

by wrightHOF on Jul 19, 2009 6:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

This is exactly what met fans should be afraid of

The fact is this is not fantasy baseball. Any attempt to gloss over this season with bogus trades is the biggest fantasy there could ever be. The fanbase is smart and will support a plan that leads to the team being a consistent winner. The stadium means nothing if the team stinks and the fans don’t think the future is bright. The mets do not need to continue to make the same trademark mistakes they always do. They need to get a plan and be serious about implementing it.

by Major on Jul 19, 2009 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The thing is...

a good portion of the fanbase will be fooled because of Francoeur’s name recognition. Hell, they have ESPN fooled, and ESPN is a major source of info for average fans.

"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."

-Jim Fregosi

by Schmidtxc on Jul 19, 2009 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Meh I'm not sure I even buy that anymore

A lot of people I know who don’t pay any sort of attention to advanced stats an go to places like ESPN, for all their information, like old “baseball guys” type folks, were even starting to realize franceour was way overrated. I’m not sure I know a braves fan who wasn’t rejoicing when he got traded.

by Gina on Jul 26, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed...

I think that trading Feliciano and Schneider for prospects at the deadline is a good place to start. Both players could find homes on contenders.

There’s no reason why this team can’t be a contender in 2010, but I’m thinking that 2009 is shot. BP’s sims think it’ll take 90.4 wins to take the NL East and 90.3 wins to take the Wild Card. Anyone see any way the Mets play 47-24 down the stretch? I can’t.

by sjohnson125 on Jul 19, 2009 9:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'd prefer to hang on to Feliciano...

I can’t see anybody giving up a great haul for him, and he could be a valuable piece next season (as he’s still under team control). If someone wants Castillo’s contract, I’d give it away. I’d take anything we can get for Schnieder, but I don’t see too many contenders who he’d be an upgrade for. If it meant eating the rest of his contract to get a decent prospect, I’d be all for it. Livan, maybe somebody wants him for a guy like Broadway (although I doubt it). I really have doubts about whether Sheff is healthy enough to be traded. Maybe someone has a use for Pagan, but I’d almost rather keep him as he’s still under team control with options next season. As much as I’d love to be sellers and help the farm system, I just don’t think we have the pieces.

"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."

-Jim Fregosi

by Schmidtxc on Jul 19, 2009 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Schneider

Both Tampa and Milwaukee could really use Schneider, as weird as that seems… I think the Mets may be able to nab a B-prospect for him.

I think this is a perfect sell-high spot for Feliciano. They are wearing his arm down to the point where he may not be effective at all next year, and relievers are pretty readily replaceable.

by sjohnson125 on Jul 19, 2009 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Relievers may be replaceable,

but good ones like Feliciano aren’t so easily replaced. And any team thinking about acquiring him is almost certainly going to notice how Jerry seems intent on grinding his left shoulder into so much dust, and either lose interest, or make a less attractive offer.

by BobbyV_Incognito on Jul 19, 2009 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Especially ones

That have flashed the kind of consistent skill Feliciano has. He may not be the greatest reliever in the world, but he’s always killed lefties, and when his exposure has been limited against righties, been a very effective pitcher. Its not that finding warm bodies to put on the mound of an inning at a time is difficult, but they can be difficult to predict, and a guy like Feliciano is a welcome exception to that rule. You just have to make sure he’s no better than the third and preferably fourth best reliever you carry.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Meddler on Jul 20, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have a hard time believing

Anyone would want Castillo. What contender needs a 2b that’s not even one of the top 20 2b in the major leagues and also earns 6 mil a year for the next 2 years? If the Mets agreed to pay about 50 to 70% of his salary, maybe they’d have a chance.

by David G on Jul 20, 2009 6:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The Giants, maybe Minnesota

by twon8 on Jul 21, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cubs?

by Ohpityme on Jul 25, 2009 6:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hmm I agree with you.
However you kinda imply that if Reyes, Beltran etc were healthy there would be a clear decision to make, I hope that isn’t regarding trading them.
Because the Mets sucking has nothing to do with Reyes/Beltran/Wright etc it has to do with the crap surrounding them.
I’d definately shut down Santana and trade the veterans who aren’t the core but I wouldn’t bring up Holt/Niese to get shelled by playing with a crappy defense(& Offense)and have their game pulled apart and destroyed for the sake of bringing them up a season early…although I doubt Holt should play in MLB next season.
Omar/Manuel should be fired anyway.
Sign JP Riccardi(If he leaves Toronto)and Manny Acta.

by Ohpityme on Jul 25, 2009 6:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I believe it would be easier to determine a specific course of action had the team been

wholly healthy. I think there would be a choice to make in who among the core players to trade but since most of the core was injured, there isn’t a clear path to take other than cutting the dead weight. Aside from 1st base and a starting pitcher there really is no flexibility to change this roster.

I really feel like Santana has a physical issue, maybe its just fatigue but he needs a break. Shut him down now!

by Major on Jul 26, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs