It's Time To Sell Pt. 1
by Sam Page on Jul 21, 2009 6:00 AM EDT
in Analysis
74 comments
3.96507%. That's the PECOTA-adjusted probability the Mets make the playoffs, according to Baseball Prospectus. While a few weeks ago the Mets needed to hang on for dear life until the offense got off the DL, they are now in "Ya Gotta Believe!" territory. While miracles happen, and are an important part of Mets history, they are just that-miracles- and can't be considered in any rational decision-making process.
Basically, I'm giving up on this season, probably well after the rest of you. In a year when seemingly every team is competitive, the Mets have managed to drop out of the race with the highest payroll in the National League. That last sentence isn't an invitation to tell me how injuries make Omar blameless, it's a genuine opportunity for this team. The Mets are sellers in the most buyer-heavy market in recent memory.
Not everyone on the Mets, however, is available. Despite what Mike from Mineola says, trading one of Wright or Reyes doesn't make much sense. The Mets should look to trade impending Free Agents for whatever they can. Some people think the Mets should focus on arbitration eligible 20-somethings, like the much-mythologized Xavier Nady. Really, prospects are just as, if not more, valuable to this franchise. While the Mets will look to win next year, getting major league players back at the deadline doesn't necessarily help that cause and may, in fact, hurt it, if say someone like Jeff Francoeur ends up with a starting job next spring. That all being said, here is the short-list of players the Mets could trade, ranked by the priority it should be to trade them:
Contract Status: Owed 400K by the Mets this year, free agent after the season. Had the ability to block trades to 10 specified teams in his original deal with the Tigers, and it's unclear whether he retained that ability when he signed with the Mets. Either way, he'd probably waive it to go to a contender.
Free Agent compensation status: Type B
Value: Sheff has been worth .8 WAR in just 240 PA, a $3.4 million value. With a .380 wOBA, he's been the third most productive hitter on the team behind Wright and 'Tron. He's been expectedly bad in the field (-7.0 UZR), but won't make an embarrassing error out there. His ZiPS rest-of-the-season wOBA projection is .344, which assumes a massive drop in average. I'll take the over on that number, since he's posting a career-high 87.5% contact rate, made possible by very meticulous pitch-selection.
Why He's Ranked Here: Sheffield provides an instant injection of offense into any lineup. Without sounding too much like a salesman, I think I can say Sheffield's super-selective approach at the plate can change the entire pace of a game, especially when the rest of the lineup is sputtering. Due just 400K this season, any team can afford him, and the Mets could just as easily agree to pay the money. For a team trying to stay in the race with an anemic offense (re:Giants) that doesn't care too much about modern notions of defense (re:Giants), Sheffield could step in and bat third or fourth right away. An AL-team with DH troubles like the Mariners could also be a fit, but I'm rooting for a Giants trade.
Verdict: Sell. If the Mets get a good major-league player or a decent package of prospects in return, it far outweighs the likely return of a compensation pick. Granted, I can see a scenario where no one bites, so the Mets can't be too picky.
Contract Status: He's owed $4.9 Million dollars this season, and is a pending free agent.
Free Agent Compensation: Type B
Value: Schneider's bat and glove have graded above-average this year. His .328 wOBA is pretty good for a catcher, and really good for Brian Schneider. While that number won't last, Schneider's offense should make him at least a .5 WAR player down the stretch, with regular playing time. He controls the running game well and Baseball Prospects values his defense at +1 run above average. (Omir Santos is 3 runs below average, for reference).
Why He's Ranked Here: James already talked about why Schneider is a sell-high candidate. Considering the offensive black hole he'd likely replace on an interested team, he'd be well worth any money he's owed. If money's an issue, the Mets would be wise to just eat the remaining $2M or so. Brian's will likely be a type-B free agent after the season (he has "clinched" B already, A is unlikely), which according to a great piece by Sky Kalkman, is worth approximately $2.6M in draft picks. The prospect equivalent is one of John Sickel's C-grade pitchers, which the Mets could probably get in pairs for Schneider. There's also the issue of whether he'd accept arbitration, and honestly I don't want Brian Schneider on the Mets any longer, despite his relative adequacy.
Verdict: Shop. If you get any players considered prospects, sell.
3. Alex Cora
Contract Status: Owed $2M with a possible additional $1M in playing time bonuses (blech). Pending free agent.
Free Agent Compensation: None
Value: Well the sell-high ship sailed, as Cora's .291 wOBA is probably just about he's true talent level. He's been a horrible defensive SS (-5.0 UZR), and has a -0.2 WAR. Still, he's grissiony and has a reputation as a "professional hitter" and "sure-handed defender". Shortstop is another one of those positions where teams field giant offensive black holes, so Cora could feasibly start, at least part-time, on a contender.
Why He's Ranked Here: While certainly not as valuable as some other trade candidates, Cora's poor play makes him totally frivolous on this roster and his contract a waste. If the Mets can somehow sell Cora as DeRosa-lite and get anything useful for him, it'll be a total coup. I don't think he needs to stay around to talk to Jose Reyes about being a good player. I assume by now Jose's taught him all he can.
Verdict: Sell. Sell. Sell.
Contract Status: Owed $1.6125M over the course of the season and is arbitration eligible next season.
Free Agent Compensation: Type B currently, but not yet eligible to file.
Value: Fighting off LOOGY status, Feliciano rebounded from a sub-par 2008 with a strong first-half in 2009. While 3.55 tRA is the best of his Met-career, his ERA is even shinier and would make a good sell-high. For the contending team with the shaky bullpen, he's left-handed and a set-up man, something even the Red Sox could use.
Why He's Ranked Here: The second-best player in terms of pure value behind Sheffield, Feliciano is a tough case, because he's still under team control next year. Relievers are fungible, and if the Mets got a good return for Pedro, they could replace his production with some savy moves this offseason. Sadly, I don't really trust the Mets to do that. Feliciano figures to get a raise in arbitration this year, but that's not a big deal, especially knocking on the door of Type-A status.
Verdict: Shop. If a package involving a good prospect turns up, strongly consider it.
Contract Status: $1M base with up to $1M in additional unspecified bonuses. Pending free agent.
Free Agent Compensation: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Value: He's worthless. Despite a tRA approaching 6, he's managed to lower his ERA under 5 again, thanks to the Nats. He's not going to keep this act up, especially with the current state of the Mets' defense. Just getting him off the team and replacing him with a Brandon Knight-type is an instant improvement.
Why He's Ranked Here: Decent ERA+meaningless "inning-eater" label=every year someone bites. In other news, Nelson Figueroa re-accepted a minor-league deal because he's a Mets fan, and has posted a 3.43 tRA in AAA.
Verdict: Abandon ship!
These fellows are the most talked about names, but I'll be ranking 6-10 soon. Part 2 will include players who are much less likely to be traded, but are interesting possibilities nonetheless.
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Comments
I know he's a perennial AAAA player...
… but my respect for Figgy just keeps on growing. You can tell he’s a Met fan, he’s had to put up with so many questionable roster moves.
by deadspy3 on Jul 21, 2009 7:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sheffield said if he is traded he will retire........
FC
" Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. "
by fxcarden@yahoo.com on Jul 21, 2009 9:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That's sort of cool, if true
I mean, why wouldn’t he want to go DH for a contending team?
It adds some credence to his enthusiasm about playing for his uncle’s team.
by theflicker on Jul 21, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They were talking about it on one of the SNY shows.......
….for whatever that’s worth…….
FC
" Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. "
by fxcarden@yahoo.com on Jul 21, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok, pet peeve of mine:
Can you stop using all the super-ellipses in your comments?
Your comments will mean the same thing without them, and they will read better.
We've got ourselves a ball club, the Mets of New York town!
by kingcritical on Jul 21, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And you don't remind us of Cerronepede.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 21, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
-1
Pet peeve of mine – grammar police on blogs. We’re talking baseball not grammar and punctuation…
by JDizzzy on Jul 21, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pet peeve of mine:
People who think when you ask for complete sentences you’re being the “grammar police.” Illiteracy and stupidity shouldn’t get a free pass.
by anonymous on Jul 21, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
stupidity and illiteracy?
Get off your high horse. He threw some extra periods in. Big fucking deal. Or, to annoy y’all, BFD!!!!!
by wobatus on Jul 21, 2009 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we've got standards here.
Please adhere to them.
We've got ourselves a ball club, the Mets of New York town!
by kingcritical on Jul 21, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow
From now on I will ONLY use caps for emphasis and paste whole URL’s. This has to be the most pedantic blog on SN, hands down. Sheesh.
You know, people generally will get the house style without dictation, and if they don’t will drift away anyway, or at least be ignored. Not your general attitude, so apologies for being harsh, but condescension permeates the site. From how to think about baseball to how to write a brief post. And the thing is I agree with most of it, as a personal preference.
by wobatus on Jul 22, 2009 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You got it.
One period (not a dot) at the end of a sentence from now on.
FC
" Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. "
by fxcarden@yahoo.com on Jul 21, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks!
We've got ourselves a ball club, the Mets of New York town!
by kingcritical on Jul 21, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
great piece, Sam.
Somehow I doubt any of this will happen, unfortunately.
We've got ourselves a ball club, the Mets of New York town!
by kingcritical on Jul 21, 2009 9:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah, ditto
great read.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jul 21, 2009 9:59 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
You're not getting anyone
for Alex Cora or Brian Schneider, come on now. What contending team wants a .230 hitting catcher or a .240 hitting middle infielder with limited range? Look what they got for Castro, and you expect to get something for Schneider?
by David G on Jul 21, 2009 11:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
breaking news:
Batting average is not the best way of evaluating players.
by anonymous on Jul 21, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you
Way to enlighten me! How about I look at their sucky career slg. pcts. and OBPs? Does that work better for you.? You’re a moron if you think they get anyone of value for Schneider, Cora or even Livan. Just give it a rest, these are below avg. major leaguers we are talking about. People are getting all excited over Schneider’s couple of homers because no one else can hit any on this team. He still blows, you’ve all just lowered the bar.
by David G on Jul 21, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about you make a better argument rather than calling names?
This post — and several other recent discussions here — cite numerous facts in constructing an argument that Schneider, Livan, and Cora have trade value for contending teams right now. Remember, league-average production and even “veteran” status matter to some GMs of some contenders. And Schneider, at least, is league-average, not below. Livan and Cora are probably somewhat below-average, but when you’re looking for a 25th man or a 5th starter to take to the playoffs, either one is still a potential upgrade for some team.
by anonymous on Jul 21, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I haven't seen any valid information that shows trading for Cora is a good move.
He’s injured and has not hit since he’s been injured. He is not a league average player at this point.
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but Jerry abuses the privilege.
by AnthonyR on Jul 21, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would think that people in the trade market would want to pick up player's with plus skills.
A guy like “Oil Spill” Valdez has more value than Cora because he brings an above-average glove. Cora brings a banged-up below-average performance in every area.
I don’t see anyone giving up a player when the can probably get a more valuable player for the stretch run for Cash.
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but Jerry abuses the privilege.
by AnthonyR on Jul 21, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think that's the point though
For the sake of this debate, you can divide value into two essential categories: utility and commodity. The utility value is what the player, in this case Alex Cora, would be worth to your team. The commodity value is the highest possible market return you can get. Since we don’t actually know who does and doesn’t perceive Alex Cora in this way or that, we can’t accurately determine the market. Thus, the only meaningful point we can make is that if Cora’s commodity value is greater than his utility value, he should be traded. We can argue all we want about what he is or he isn’t worth to the market, but we’d just be rehashing lots of “gut instinct” arguments and speculation patterns we learned from the John Heymans and Ken Rosenthals of the world.
The question worth asking here isn’t whether Alex Cora should or shouldn’t be traded, its what kind of return would it be worth trading him for. If that’s not attainable, fine, keep him. If it is, it should absolutely be explored. In this case, any kind of mildly interesting prospect is probably a nice return for Cora, whose utility value really isn’t any greater than any the players who would replace him on the roster anyway.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Meddler on Jul 21, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
The point is, who is giving up ANYTHING for an injured, sub-replacement level player?
You could trade him for nothing at this point and it wouldn’t have too grand of an effect on this team. I may be wrong, but I don’t see how anyone would give up anything for him.
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but Jerry abuses the privilege.
by AnthonyR on Jul 21, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he could still bring a B or B- prospect
Utility infielders, like LOOGYs, have disproportionate perceived value at the trade deadline. You might be right that there are no takers, but I think we can all agree that Omar should be shopping him around just in case.
by anonymous on Jul 21, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we could get that, I would deal him in a heartbeat.
Rationally speaking, I don’t see anyone giving that up when they can get a Lugo or Berroa type player for nothing.
We shall see.
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but Jerry abuses the privilege.
by AnthonyR on Jul 21, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
only an idiot
would trade a B or B- prospect for Cora. But some GMs may be idiots. Castro only got a C prospect, if that.
Schneider may have some value.
And yes, absolutely, might as well shop Cora, Livan, etc.
by wobatus on Jul 22, 2009 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rec'd
Here’s some teams that could use a player like Alex Cora:
Giants — Uribe and Renteria are manning their middle IF positions. Cora’s left handed bat and patient approach is an ideal compliment to their in-house tandem.
Mariners — Lopez starts at the keystone, but is a bad defender (-5.8 and -3.7 in the last two seasons). Cora’s career UZR/150 at 2B is +3. The Mariners have been winning with defense all year and Jack Z is always looking to upgrade. I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention that their lineup is too right-handed, so Cora (and Schneider) would provide the M’s some platoon flexibility.
Twins — Matt Tolbert, Alexi Casilla and Nick Punto have combined for -2.0 WAR at the MI positions. Cora, a replacement level SS and slightly above at 2B, would improve upon the nonsense that currently exists.
White Sox — Kenny and Ozzie love them some veterans and Alex’s brother Joey is on the staff. Jayson Nix has stabilized 2B since being recalled, but I doubt that’d keep them from adding a left-handed/“sure-handed” compliment.
by All Shook Down on Jul 21, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
what
will they trade for Cora? Renteria has slumped but still has a positive WAR this year, unlike the injured Cora, and is 2 years removed from a 4+ WAR. Lopez isn’t great but has shown flashes and has upside. Plus he also has a positive WAR. Why would these teams give the Mets anything for Cora?
Look at the reverse. if these teams had Cora, would you be clamoring for the Mets to trade Bobby Parnell for him? Or Stokes?
by wobatus on Jul 22, 2009 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cora for Burriss?
cash?
King of the bling come to lay down the evidence//Not George Bush, L-Millz be da president
by Sam Page on Jul 22, 2009 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Time to eat crow
Renteria just took a cortisone shot for his elbow. hellow Frandsen, burris, Lewis or cash for Cora.
by wobatus on Jul 22, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My point is that Renteria and Uribe are low-BB rate right handed hitters
Where Cora is just the opposite. Even if it’s just a ‘low-level minor leaguer’ (credit: Met Cerrone) traded in return, that’s a lot better value to the organization than what Cora’s currently providing. He could also be used to sweeten a package.
To Giants: Gary Sheffield (or Jeff Francoeur) and Alex Cora
To Mets: Fred Lewis and Kevin Frandsen
That’s not out of the realm of possibilities.
by All Shook Down on Jul 22, 2009 6:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lewis and Frandsen
More back-ups. Although I guess I’d take them. Thye Giants might not like cora for the very reason they seem to love low walk rate guys. Pace Benji and sandoval, but I’ll take Sandoval’s low walk rate thanks.
by wobatus on Jul 22, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lewis != Frandsen
“back-up” is just a label. Lewis was a 2.5 WAR LF last year
King of the bling come to lay down the evidence//Not George Bush, L-Millz be da president
by Sam Page on Jul 22, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
and he is .4 this year. And last year he was a bit flukishly high babip at .367. He is 28 and never had a WAR above 1 in any other year. Murphy last year was .9 WAR in 150 PA, Lewis 2.5 in 521.
Albeit at least Lewis can play left field somewhat.
Frandsen is -.3 WAR in a tiny sample. Yeah, he was an ok minor leaguer. not sure he plays short all that well, and we seem to have an immoveable object at second.
by wobatus on Jul 22, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Frandsen
.844 MiLB OPS. Yes, he’s 27 and he’s better than Jonathan Malo, Angel Berroa, Argenis Reyes, etc.
by All Shook Down on Jul 22, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
point taken
But he really isn’t that good a fielder at short. But yes, he’s better than those guys, although maybe not too much better than Cora and we don’t know that they’d trade these guys for Cora anyway. I still think it is shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic, although I’m even in favor of that. Anything to take one’s mind off the sinking feeling.
Me? I’d just hand the job to Tejada. He’d likely hit terribly but i don’t think it would ruin his development, although i suppose it starts the financial clock on him too early.
by wobatus on Jul 22, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmm
Cora, trade him or keep him? How about dump him? I like Cora, but a guy like Cora, if he wasn’t damaged goods, has high utility to teams like the Mets, or like the Mets should be, an injury-racked team looking for productive fill-ins.
by wobatus on Jul 21, 2009 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
meant to add
but he has little commodity value. If he isn’t being productive for the Mets, few other teams in similar starits would want him or be willing to give anything for him. Point is he has little value in either sense. A waste of a spot.
by wobatus on Jul 21, 2009 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay
sorry about the moron comment, but cite me a contending team that Cora, Schneider or Livan make better? I’d argue that any team you mention has a guy on their roster or in the minors that will play better than any of those 3. The idea that we could receive anything of value for any of these clowns is laughable to me.
by David G on Jul 21, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are teams out there that would benefit from Schneider
About receiving anything of value BtB link:
For a Type B draft picks, a young Grade C pitcher or a combination of multiple Grade C hitters and older Grade C pitchers is appropriate.The short answer is that while free agent compensation picks aren’t worth giving away, a package of decent prospects will almost always be more valuable.
You’d have to endure Omir for the rest of the season and God help us with a backup catcher.
by Michkin on Jul 21, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe we could bring back Mike DiFelice?
Sandy Alomar Jr.?
by JoshNY on Jul 21, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Schneider
might get something. Nothing to get excited about. You have to package a guy like him. Like add ryan Church and you get a Milledge back.
by wobatus on Jul 22, 2009 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heyyyyy, wait a minute...
You just gave me a…d’oh!
by BobbyV_Incognito on Jul 22, 2009 7:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Mets
are the team that takes the 2 roster fillers for the “problem” child with upside. That’s the sad thing. Although that trade could have turned out well. I really liked Church and Schneider is a serviceable player. Thus far, both sides have kind of busted on that one.
by wobatus on Jul 22, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right, but that doesn't mean GMs think that way.
Anonymous is saying that these guys have value, not because they’re good, but because they’re playing above their heads and have “grission” or “leadership”.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 21, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So
you’re saying you think they suck but someone else is dumb enough to think they don’t suck to give you someone better.
by wobatus on Jul 21, 2009 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oddly enough
this sounds about right to me. We see Cora as this below-average everyday player. But remember that NY Times article from a few weeks back? All sorts of talk about how he is a gritty guy who takes long at-bats and leads in the clubhouse? I can see how some other GM would see value in that on their bench. I suppose we don’t necessarily end up with something better in return, but maybe we get something with the potential to be better and, frankly, that’s ok by me.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jul 21, 2009 11:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Cora is fine
to sub for a guy with a hangnail out for a week, or for a team that has offesne at most every other position. As a regular on ahobbled club he is awful and I’d rather bring up tejada early. But yes, maybe someone wants him. Most teams would wait for a guy like that off waivers, not give up something worthwhile.
by wobatus on Jul 22, 2009 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't actually think any of these guys completely suck.
Though I do think their perceived value on the trade market is probably higher than their real value, I think all the players we’re talking about here have some value to a good baseball club. Like we’ve been saying about Ryan Church, for one other example, the last few days: league-average performance (or even slightly below) has value. Contending teams don’t always (indeed, usually don’t) have better-than-replacement-level talent at every spot, much less from their utility infielders and fifth starters, and as was said above, a guy like Cora or Schneider might actually add something like a win, or half a win, to e.g. the Twins or the Rays over the rest of this season. They might actually make some sense as rentals, even discounting anything about perceived veteran grit and character.
by anonymous on Jul 21, 2009 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
We are not getting any real value even if someone wanted Cora or Schneider or whoever. I would like to win a couple of games from here on out so why trade? Also, If the Mets were willing to eat Castillo’s contract (which is the only way he is tradeable) they would have done it last offseason and signed Hudson.
Parnell may have some value but given his age he might be worth keeping and crossing your fingers.
by JDizzzy on Jul 21, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the only moveable pieces are Schneider and Feliciano.
I don’t see Shef going anywhere or much of a market for Cora or Livan.
If Schneider is to be a Type B, are we really getting better value than that back in a trade for a 2 month rental? Possible, but I don’t see it.
Our main piece is Feliciano. If we can find someone desperate for bullpen help, it could be worth it.
I still maintain that if we are “sellers”, our best piece is Mike Pelfrey. I put him out there and see if someone is desperate enough to give you a haul for him. If we pick up his salary this year and Texas wants to give us Justin Smoak to be able to compete this year, I’d do it.
I’m not saying trade him just for the sake of trading him, but he has very good value so I would at least put it out there and see if someone blows us away.
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but Jerry abuses the privilege.
by AnthonyR on Jul 21, 2009 12:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
They wouldn't give us a player like Smoak for Pelfrey
in my opinion. Pelfrey has had two years to prove he is an average starter. This is better than the back end of their rotation but not something they’d be willing to give up Smoak for.
by andy.ss80 on Jul 21, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not saying they would
But silly things sometimes happen at the trade deadline with GM’s who see an opportunity to win now.
We should be actively seeking out those opportunities.
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but Jerry abuses the privilege.
by AnthonyR on Jul 21, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you'd never get Smoak
But maybe a Chris Davis, or max ramirez, someone with whom they are disillusioned.
by wobatus on Jul 22, 2009 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
huh
Pelfrey has had two years to prove he is an average starter.
and he’s proven it right? I’m not for trading him, but I think Pelfrey is as good as any Texas starter.
King of the bling come to lay down the evidence//Not George Bush, L-Millz be da president
by Sam Page on Jul 21, 2009 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
better
But he han’t had results like it this year. feldman has had better results. His fip is worse, though. But his tra+ is better. Nolan has them doing it with smoke and mirrors.
Pelf has been a real puzzle this year. In a way he seems even worse than his era, and hard to belive his FIP is 4.19, which, if the Mets were a healthy team, might actually be enough to make him a number 3 or so, if not the number 2 slot he is by default. He does show flashes.
by wobatus on Jul 22, 2009 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well yes, I'm just sick of debating the Texas pitching staff
King of the bling come to lay down the evidence//Not George Bush, L-Millz be da president
by Sam Page on Jul 22, 2009 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
I missed the debate. In was agreeing with you that he is as good as any Texas starter, and better, although to be fair he has an easier slate and home park. And i think Holland will be better, but hasn’t been yet. Feliz too. But Texas should want a guy like Pelfrey. Not for Smoak though. And they haven’t grown sick of Davis enough yet either maybe. Maybe for Max Ramirez and Matt Harrison if healthy. of course that would just further decimate the mets staff.
by wobatus on Jul 22, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Max Ramirez has been terrible this year
No one knows why, but I don’t think he’s anyone catcher or 1B of the future for now.
King of the bling come to lay down the evidence//Not George Bush, L-Millz be da president
by Sam Page on Jul 22, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Max Ramirez
I hear he had an injured wrist. This year is completely out of line with his career to date. I was just thinking that’s the kind of guy you’d get in return, in a package. Not Smoak. Maybe Harrison and Teagarden.
Not that i am advocating dealing Pelfrey now. His value is at a low ebb. At least I hope so.
by wobatus on Jul 22, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Injured wrist
His minor league wOBAs:
2006, 21 in A ball: .404 and .416.
2007 in A+ .417 and .411.
2008 in AA .474.
2009 AAA .293.
He does strikeout a lot and while he isn’t old at 24 he needs to step up, and he isn’t a great defender. But i imagine this year is more likely the fluke or injury than the rest of his career.
by wobatus on Jul 22, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d be tempted actually scratch that I would definately be interested by a Davis or Teagarden for Pelfrey deal…not so much Ramirez.
Harrison AND Teagarden would be MASSIVE I’d do that in a heart beat.
by Ohpityme on Jul 25, 2009 7:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never said he wasn't as good.
I said he was better than some. My point was he is not going to give us Smoak in return.
by andy.ss80 on Jul 22, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree on four
I don’t think there’s need to deal Feliciano. Sure, he’s fairly replaceable, maybe even with in house candidates in the not-too-distant future. But he’s also reliable, which is very difficult to find in relief pitching. When his exposure is limited he’s a very useful pitcher, and I just don’t see what return would justify trading him. If someone’s willing to buy into him as a true “setup man” then fine, consider it, but I think that’s a tougher mirage to convince another GM of than you’re hoping. He still has pretty much the same type of platoon splits that he’s always had, the big difference is that this year 60% of his BF have been lefties, up from 50% last year. That might be enough to fool, say, Omar Minaya, but unfortunately that’s the one GM the Mets can’t do business with rip off.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Meddler on Jul 21, 2009 12:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Please don't reference Sheff or Cora to the Giants
I don’t think more than two position players under the age of 30 would be allowed on the field at the same time.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Jul 22, 2009 2:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I would be sad if we traded Feliciano
I’ve been a fan of his since 2003. Still, if they can get something decent for him it might not be a terrible idea. Plus, if his transaction history is any indication, he’ll end up back with the Mets before too long anyway
by cjmulrain on Jul 22, 2009 12:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Feliciano is one of the guys on this list that should be shopped, but not traded unless we get a good deal.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 22, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Am i just dellusional in thinking Castillo can be traded without eating any of his contract.
I’d exploit the Cubs and hopefully get him for Fotenot straight up.
I’d keep Felicicano but the rest can go for something of value.
I am actually kind of pleased that Sheffield wants to stay with the Mets and wouldn’t even be adverse to keeping him for next year at minimum just to PH.
Who’d have thought when the Mets signed him he would contribute as much as he has and be one of the better hitters on the team?
by Ohpityme on Jul 25, 2009 7:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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