Adam Rubin Trying To Have It Both Ways
In the wake of yesterday's press conference/clown show, Omar Minaya has received most of the criticism for his performance, and justifiably so. An overlooked aspect of the day's events was the mini bombshell (for me atleast) that Adam Rubin approached Jeff Wilpon for guidance on how to break into the business of baseball. Rubin predictably downplayed the occurrence, stating:
I asked, How do you go about getting a job in baseball? That’s the extent of it.
Doesn't sound like a big deal? I think it is.
Most journalists wear their objectivity and lack of rooting interest like a badge of honor. "No cheering in the press box" is the famous mantra. I don't believe for 1 second that someone who is interested enough in baseball to make a career of it does not root for or against certain teams/players. Nonetheless, in the name of fair coverage and reporting it's definitely for the best that writers maintain the illusory role of passionless bystander. I don't read the Daily News or Rubin's work religiously, but what I have read is generally well done and superior to the rubbish produced by Bart Hubbuch at the New York Post. It is not Rubin's writing I'm calling into question here - it's his previous contact with Wilpon. Asking for pointers on how to break into the baseball business seems like questionable behavior at best and a minor breach of ethics at worst. Would it be appropriate for a New York Times reporter interviewing Barack Obama to ask for tips on how to enter the world of politics? How about a Wall Street Journal writer asking Warren Buffett how to start a successful financial services firm? No, of course not. Especially if the conversation is kept from the public and not documented in the published work. Such discussion could influence coverage of the subject (either positively or negatively) and give the impression to the public that treatment of the subject is biased.
By asking Wilpon for what amounts to business advice, and continuing to cover the New York Mets for the Daily News, Rubin is saying one thing and doing another. He went on to say:
I don't know how I'm going to cover the team now.
The same statement could have been said after Rubin's inquiries with Jeff Wilpon.
Neil Best at Newsday thinks this is not a big deal at all and says it goes on all the time. His justification is that jobs in the newspaper industry are increasingly scarce and Rubin's actions amount to little more then networking. I am no journalist and have no formal training in journalism outside of an easy-A class in high school, so maybe I am missing something here. However, this sounds hypocritical for a profession full of men and women who pride themselves on their ethics and objectivity. This is not a defense of Omar Minaya, who deserves to be fired for a number of reasons, with yesterday's debacle near the top of that list. My main point is that journalists like Rubin can't have it both ways. Do not claim to be an outside observer without allegiances then go and ask the COO of the organization you cover for career advice.
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Comments
Thank You
I said this yesterday in the game thread. Its not that I dont like Adam Rubin, but what he did was unethical. I would assume he is downplaying it now, his job is at stake, as I am sure the Ombudsman at The Daily News is now launching his own investigation. And if his defense is that everyone in the sports journalism world does it, then it is patently obvious that the majority of the sports journalism world is an open sewer of talentless hacks trying to break into the game. Which is a shame because Rubin did a great job in breaking this story. But now I have to question his motives.
by aparkermarshall on Jul 28, 2009 7:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If that "viewpoint" is true, then a lot of people are going to be investigated and fired.
by MetsGod on Jul 28, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good
Alot of them are terrible.
by aparkermarshall on Jul 28, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think it was unethical in any way
1
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
by Evan_S on Jul 28, 2009 7:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, didn't mean to post that
at least not until later when I can give reasons why. I’m in a bit of a rush right now.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
by Evan_S on Jul 28, 2009 7:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Point taken, but ...
You’re naive in assuming everything is—or even should be—so cut-and-dried when it comes to interactions between a journalist and the subjects he or she covers. Professional baseball is a small world, and every part of it it relates to every other. Players become broadcasters (or even columnists come post-season time; remember Cone in ’88?). GMs become broadcasters (Steve Phillips, Jim Duquette). Newspaper men become GMs (Frank Cashen). Reporters become broadcasters, and so on. Each person is looking out for himself, trying to survive and thrive the best he can.
If there were anything untrue about what Rubin reported, then it would be right to worry. But he simply reported the facts, obviously unskewed by possible career motives. Minaya’s an idiot to suggest that Rubin reported negatively on Bernazard because he wanted his job. No one is so deluded to think his first job in baseball will be as a director of player development.
by RetireNumber17 on Jul 28, 2009 7:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
that's not the point JamesK was making...
he said it himself that it’s not about Rubin’s columns and what he writes….It’s about him going to the Head Honcho and pretty much asking how to find a job in THIS INDUSTRY!!! Doesn’t matter whether it’s for the Mets or not…The Fact remains that he asked for advice and he EVEN ADMITTED IT!
If that isn’t a clear admission of a breach of journalistic ethics, then I don’t know what is.
by MetsGod on Jul 28, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
SPOT ON
A lot of fans seem to have confused the anxiety with the team and Omar’s poor verbiage with the real story.
NO ONE including Wilpon has denied that Rubin approached him for advise. That undermines the GM and can hold the organisation to ransom. I won’t be surprised when it unfolds that Omar had Wilpons permission to after Rubin. Of course it would have been better to go to the editor and do it in private.
by Outside Observer on Jul 28, 2009 8:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think he wanted this to be done public...
…’cause it would better expose Rubin for the fat-faced dillhole he is.
uhh…no offense to fat-faced dillholes everywhere else, though.. ;p
by MetsGod on Jul 28, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m a journalist, and I can safely attest that what constitutes an ethical violation sometimes languishes in a subjective limbo. There’s no legal definition, so it’s up to reporters and editors to draw the lines.
In this case, I believe you’re absolutely right. The statement, “I don’t know how I’m going to cover the team now” should have crossed Rubin’s mind before this blew up, not after.
It was a poor decision for Minaya to call Rubin out at the presser, but it was ever poorer judgment for Rubin to solicit the advice in the first place. His defense of “networking” would make more sense if he asked for advice about moving up in the same field, not transitioning to another one.
Rubin’s desire to find a new job isn’t in itself unethical, but the way in which he went about it most certainly was.
by TheLetter2 on Jul 28, 2009 8:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thank you for the perspective
The laws of journalism constitute a grey area so I appreciate some feedback from someone who is trained in the field (I’m assuming you are, based on your opening line).
by James Kannengieser on Jul 28, 2009 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No problem. That’s the tricky thing with ethics; they’re not clearly codified anywhere. The rules can change from newsroom to newsroom. I think the commenters below make an excellent point — sports journalism in general is in bed with the entities it covers, and that makes for awfully murky situations. When something like this happens, everyone can feel like the victim, and they may all have a valid point.
by TheLetter2 on Jul 28, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure these halcyon days of strict ethics ever existed
And I don’t think this is anything restricted to sports journalism. George Stephanopoulis, for example. People go back and forth between covering politics and being in politics all the time, and I don’t think anything gets more serious on the ethics scale than political coverage.
by SupT on Jul 28, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
which halcyon days?
I think you’re right that we need to avoid oversimplifying the issues here, since everyone involved in this situation looks at least a little in the wrong. James’s original post did seem a bit naively black-and-white about some of the ethical questions, but what did TheLetter2 say that seemed like this to you?
by anonymous on Jul 28, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just that people are getting in a lather over the downfall of journalism in recent times
When I’m pretty sure it’s always been just as dirty as everything else. I think it’s human nature.
Just for one example, and I can’t prove it obviously, but I’m pretty sure before the internet there was a hell of a lot more plagiarizing and making up sources, etc going on.
Hey, THESE might be the halcyon days of journalistic ethics!
by SupT on Jul 28, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, this is the point
Thanks for posting. I’m going to repeat for emphasis, as I think this is the crux of the matter here:
sports journalism in general is in bed with the entities it covers, and that makes for awfully murky situations
It’s probably true that career-advice conversations like the Rubin-Wilpon exchanges are all too common in sports journalism and this is probably one reason why we’re not seeing much surprise from the other sportswriters covering this story (apart from Wallace Matthews, who shockingly came out on the exact right side of this issue by remembering that Rubin’s position is a bit dubious even while vilifying Omar). And if we take the Buffett comparison to heart, maybe it indicates not that Rubin is on firm ground but that business journalism is also a little dicey at times, precisely because of the uncomfortable intimacy of reporters with their subjects and the mobility of the same people between the roles of the reporter and of the story being covered.
Rubin is not completely in the right here. But Minaya still seems to be completely in the wrong.
by anonymous on Jul 28, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can someone explain WHY it was unethical?
I keep reading that Rubin was unethical or that there was a conflict of interest. I would be interested to read why.
If Rubin wanted to transition to a front office position, how else would he go about doing it? And why the heck would he ask Jeff Wilpon for advice about moving up in the newspaper industry? That just doesn’t make sense.
by SQUAD on Jul 28, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is a perceived conflict of interest
becuase Rubin inquired about a front office job. He then writes an article that he knows full well can get a person working in a front office fired.
I am not saying that there was a real conflict of interest. Only Rubin knows his true intentions for pursuing this story. But there is at least the perception due to Rubin’s previously expressed interests. Omar also obviously had this perception at least initially which is why he (wrongly IMO) brought it up at the press conference.
by blains2000 on Jul 28, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's only unethical if he used his position to get someone fired,
which he didn’t. It doesn’t seem that he fabricated anything, he reported what happened as he is supposed to. There is nothing wrong with inquiring about another job, regardless of what your position is. If you can point to an example to where it compromised is journalistic standards, the yes he was wrong. Rubin did nothing wrong or unethical and this is being blown out proportion.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
by Evan_S on Jul 28, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe I shouldn't have answered the unethical question
I don’t think it was necessarily unethical but I can see why people would have a problem with it due to conflict of interest
Rubin definitely did use his position to get someone fired. He (and everyone else) knew these articles on Bernazard would lead to his firing. Was it the right thing to do? Hell yeah! It looks on all accounts that these allegations were true and that Bernazard had it coming. But due to Rubin inquiring about a job in the front office / minor leagues I don’t think it is unfair to at least ask the question, “What is Rubin’s motive here? Why is he the one writing these articles?” This is what I think Omar poorly articulated.
by blains2000 on Jul 28, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Completely Disagree With You, And You Ignore A Major Fact
While I appreciate reading a different side to this latest Mets drama, I believe the basis for your argument is somewhat slanted.
Lets forget if what Adam reported was true or not. Your post was intended to point out an alleged impropriety or conflict where Adam was concerned, and that it really is a bigger deal than some make it out to be. In another industry and in another time, that might be true, but welcome to the information age.
The Mets cannot point fingers at journalists who inquire about career choices. The Mets are the majority owners of SNY and one of their top rated shows is Daily News Live where Adam is a semi regular as is a dozen other Daily News journalists.
That’s an important fact because the Mets created a gray area where they elected to say, the heck with conflicts of interest, we need to fill our programming schedule, and hired all these journalists, and pay all these journalists to appear on their network.
Everyone knows where the newspaper business is going, and the lines of objectivity have been so blurred, especially in the case of the Mets who did most of the blurring.
Ask Jeff and Omar if they knew of any other journalist who asked for career advice and you’ll hear a dozen other familiar names. How do you think Anthony DiComo and Marty Noble got their gigs on Mets.com?
Was it objective of them to take money from the team they cover on a daily basis?
I won’t even mention other SNY regulars like David Lennon, Jon Heyman, Mark Klapisch, etc. Almost everyone except Bart Hubbuch, whom you referred to.
This is a new world and the rules have been changed. There nothing wrong with a beat writer saying, “So, how does somebody get a job in this place?”
The Mets created this situation, so it’s pretty bad when they call somebody out from the front door, while they request resumes from them through the back door.
by Joe D. on Jul 28, 2009 8:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I kind of
agree with this. There’s a whole grey area mess now, which probably started with Mets.com, but definitely intesified with SNY.tv – there’s people being paid by the Mets to ‘objectively’ critique the Mets from a position of earned neutrality, i.e. from a newspaper or blog or whatever.
Furthermore, the Rubin thing seems very minor to me. OK, so from one point of view he was asking about moving to another field, i.e. from journalism to player development, but from another point of view he was testing the water for a move within the general world of the Mets, which as I said above, is now multifaceted and full of grey areas. Loads of people tap up clients or contractors for jobs and people think nothing of it, but I suppose because it’s journalism, there are rather quaint expectations of probity.
I think that Rubin came out of it looking like he’d been caught doing something slightly naughty, which is fair enough, and Omar emerged looking both vindictive and stupid.
by deadspy3 on Jul 28, 2009 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty much agree
I don’t work in journalism, so I can’t comment on what is “acceptable” and what is not. But when you have team-owned networks like SNY and YES, when you have ESPN in bed with the leagues it covers, when you have former GMs like Steve Phillips in the broadcast booth and former broadcasters like Buck Martinez who wind up managing teams, and when you have active players occasionally working as broadcasters during the post season, I think the reality is that the line is a lot blurrier than it used to be, and maybe should be.
I will say this much, though: despite being owned by the Mets, SNY has not been afraid to take the gloves off when criticizing the team, including this fiasco, so at least the Mets are doing something right.
by dontstopbelieving on Jul 28, 2009 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll go along with the "blurred lines" thing
as long as the high and mighty journalists who take part in it give their journalistic ethics and morals discussions a rest. See Robothal vs. Morris (the Ibanez thing).
Murray Chass somewhat agrees with me. Not sure if that’s a good sign or bad sign.
by James Kannengieser on Jul 28, 2009 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it means you are a bitter, 70-year-old man.
You probably want those damn kids with their fancy statistical numbers to get off your lawn.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jul 28, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
High and mighty yes, ethics and morals no
I think the lofty standards you refer to have come crashing down in the last few years. It’s a sad reality. I used to trust much of what I read from journalists, but now I rarely do. It stinks that every time we read something these days, we have to have it in the back of our minds whether there’s some hidden agenda. I think there is a pretense of ethics and morals today in journalism, but it’s just that, a pretense.
by Joe D. on Jul 28, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kind of agree, Kind of disagree Joe
It is worthwhile to raise the point that “The Mets” is a corporate entity that includes both baseball and journalistic operations. By definition that blurs whatever line separates them. I can definitely see that, though I would caveat it by saying that, if anything, the line between journalism and sports is more distinct now than it ever has been precisely because of the age we live in. It wasn’t that long ago when there was little if any real journalism in sports (especially baseball) as much as there were publicists that followed the teams. Now, there are better journalists and more of them. Presumably that helps with policing and keeping standards high — and historically, we have to say this has worked fairly well. Nevertheless, overlapping corporate interests make sports coverage a pretty gray area. (Consider the recent dust up over ESPN’s non-coverage of the civil suit aimed at Ben Roethlisberger, and the fairly obvious appearance of conflicted interests on the part of ESPN. The worldwide leader failed to follow the script that it had pretty much written on reporting the subject.)
Now, I think Rubin is trying to have it both ways — though perhaps for slightly differently reasons than James specifies. My problem with Rubin is that you don’t get to act like some indignant Southern belle — “Well, mah heavens! I have just nevuh been so insulted in all mah laf!” — after participating in a palace coup. For my money, there are really no victims in this saga. For Rubin’s part, he engaged in journalism at its most ruthless. Experienced journalists can be expected to understand that sources leak information for their own purposes and as part of their own agenda. Further, they are expected to account for this in reporting. Rubin’s sources clearly wanted Bernazard gone, and Rubin is really the only journalist that really pushed these stories without balance or perspective. That doesn’t make him wrong, or even per se unethical. But I’m not naive enough to believe that Rubin wasn’t entirely aware that he was engaged in a palace coup — especially since other journalists undoubtedly with access to the same sources didn’t jump on the story. As I mentioned in the comments yesterday, Omar’s outburst was a desperate act from a man forced to walk the plank by ownership and push his boy over first.
Rubin can say, “this is a red herring Omar.” (And he basically did.) He can say, “this is a cheap shot Omar”. (He did.) But, I don’t buy the dogged journalist just trying to do his job routine. This was palace politics pure and simple. Rubin’s pissed because Omar went scorched earth on him.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
by dcrockett17 on Jul 28, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
what?
Even if you’re right that Rubin did no legwork or reporting besides just picking up leaks that other reporters wouldn’t touch — an assertion which seems really dubious to me — even if you’re right, that would still make Rubin, as Gary Cohen said last night, the guy who reported the story, not part of the story itself. Why would Omar be justified in involving him in the story he reported?
by anonymous on Jul 28, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not a justification of any sort
My point is that there are no victims here story aside from the folks on the receiving ends of Bernazard’s rants.
What Omar did was tacky, desperate, and schoolyard. There’s no justifying it. I certainly don’t care to try.
But the Bernazard-is-a-jerk stories are not new. They go back at least a couple years. That’s common knowledge. Gary, Ron, and Keith made the point yesterday that Bernazard made enemies up and down the organization over several years. Ken Rosenthal shared his own Tony Bernazard behaving badly story today as well. People wanted the guy fired, and relayed their stories to Rubin who wrote a series of stories that directly challenge Bernazard’s fitness for his position. I’m not saying he flipped a switch and got Bernazard fired. I’m not saying that Bernazard didn’t deserve to be fired. What I am saying is, let’s be grownups here. Even a totally justified hit piece is still a hit piece.
In the aftermath of that you don’t get to say that the journalist isn’t part of the story.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
by dcrockett17 on Jul 28, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry Bob
In my haste I called Klapisch, Mark instead of Bob.
by Joe D. on Jul 28, 2009 8:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i was a journalism major in college
but that was mostly because the classes was easier and the trim prettier than most of the other majors. and all it really taught was me was being a journalist for a living sounds miserable. so anyway, here’s my expert opinion:
i dont think rubin crossed any ethical boundries, or even supped on any questionable ethical soup. what rubin thought omar was implying was defintitley unethical, that rubin would write stories to purposely get bernezard fired so that he could get hired in his place. of course it is also a teerarded plan of the highest order that would never work, but just talking to wilpon about how to break into a baseball team’s FO? nah. and stuff like that does happen all the time in other fields. My friend used to work for tony snow at fox news until snow took a job working directly for Bush. and if you work for the wall street journal, you bet your butt you absolutley ask buffett or other successful businessmen about how to get into the business theyre in. thats just being a good reporter.
it may sound shady or look to be the precipice of the metaphorical slippery slope, but to me this is harmless. even if he did change the way he wrote about the mets to help him land a job, thats not even that bad. purposely writing stories to get someone fired so that there is an opening in an organization that he may potentially fill? yes, very unethical. and stupid. but merely trying to get a different job in a field on which you reported? i dont see the big deal.
Lets hope that when gut check time comes again the Mets will pass it with flying colors.
by kendynamo on Jul 28, 2009 9:52 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
too wordy?
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Schmidtxc on Jul 28, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we all know how much MetsGod hates words.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 28, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and numbers.
So what does that leave…just symbols.
&$^%@???!?
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 28, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't disagree that a good reporter should ask about getting into the business
but I think it’s more appropriate if done in the context of planning a story or feature about the topic, rather than for his own personal knowledge/gain. As far as I know, Rubin didn’t write anything about “how to get a job in baseball.”
This is making my head hurt I just want to watch baseball and drink beer.
by James Kannengieser on Jul 28, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In my opinion
You haven’t given a good reason as to why it was inappropriate to ask for career advice. If Rubin wants to change careers, that is his prerogative. And when one wants to change careers you reach out to those you know in the field.
by SQUAD on Jul 28, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it risks creating the feeling of a bias
His job is supposedly to be an objective outside reporter of the team. When you seek out advice from the COO of that team I think there’s a conflict of interest, or atleast the perception of a conflict of interest. I couldn’t care less about extreme journalistic standards to be honest – but most in the MSM do, and hang their hats on it as a way to hold themselves up as models of ethics.
Again, this isn’t a major problem, but I think a problem nonetheless. I was also sick of reading the “OMAR IS THE DEVIL RUBIN IS A VICTIM” shit everywhere this morning so I provided a different perspective.
by James Kannengieser on Jul 28, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It certainly seems intuitive
That there would be bias but Rubin has kept it out of his writing as far as we can tell and has, in fact, been very critical of the organization in his writing. I don’t think it requires a lot of speculation to say if he wanted a job specifically with the Mets, he wouldn’t have attacked the front office like he has.
by TheBigStapler on Jul 28, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just because he has been critical doesn't mean there is no bias
by James Kannengieser on Jul 28, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus
maybe he is critical because he didn’t get a job. I am not saying that is Rubin’s motivation, just pointing out how it could be a conflict of interest or could bias his reporting.
by blains2000 on Jul 28, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly
I don’t see the conflict of interest. It only becomes a conflict of interest if Rubin had allowed it to become a conflict of interest. He obviously didn’t since he has published a scathing piece on Omar and broke the Bernazard story.
What Omar did was messed up. He was trying to make the story about Rubin when the story was about Bernazard being fired, and, to an extent, how dopey he looks for not doing anything about it until the story broke. Whether or not Rubin inquired about a job or merely asked for some advice is irrelevant to why the press conference was called. It was a pretty dirty move if you ask me.
Also, I think you’re take on this is influenced by your own bias against the MSM and their trumpeting of their code of ethics. IMO, whether or not the MSM generally adheres to their mythical code is irrelevant here because I don’t think what Rubin did was unethical.
by SQUAD on Jul 28, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Show me in the piece where I defend what Omar did
Show me in the piece where I say it wasn’t a dirty move by Omar.
I have no problem with people disagreeing with anything I write, especially something like this, but don’t straw man me.
by James Kannengieser on Jul 28, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not "straw manning" you
I am simply responding to this: “I was also sick of reading the "OMAR IS THE DEVIL RUBIN IS A VICTIM" shit everywhere this morning so I provided a different perspective.” Sometimes the popular take on things is just right and not the product of group think. I was pointing out why I think the general consensus is correct here.
I was also responding to this: “I couldn’t care less about extreme journalistic standards to be honest – but most in the MSM do, and hang their hats on it as a way to hold themselves up as models of ethics.” and the other variations on that theme in your initial post and in the responses.
by SQUAD on Jul 28, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can we all agree...
that Wallace Mathews is the devil?
by Joe D. on Jul 28, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah it could create a little bias
but i think it pales in comparison to all the other opportunity for bias to creep in when a beat reporter covers a team. reporters write favorable stories about players to stay on their good side so they’ll give them good quotes. thats way worse, in my opinion, and it acknowledged to happen all the time. plenty of other things like that go one with beat writers, of all varieties.
but i also think youre right in that all of rubin’s colleagues are flipping out way too hard. but if theres one thing journalists LOVE to write about, its themselves. and when they do, unsuprisingly everyone usually finds it lame and sucky except the journalists themselves (eg Wire Season 5). So yeah, i agree that the tabloids need to stop making a martyr out of rubin.
and i also agree that beer and watching an actual game is way better than sitting at work talking about FO press conferences and journalism ethics. i wish it were thursday and so i could leave early and go see tool in fairfax.
Lets hope that when gut check time comes again the Mets will pass it with flying colors.
by kendynamo on Jul 28, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That sounds awesome.
Any other good bands playing?
by SQUAD on Jul 28, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
from what i can tell its just them
im pretty pumped. looks like theyre just playing a limited number of small venues for a couple months this year. coming to jersey city aug 1 (according to their website). i havnet seen them since ozzfest 98.
Lets hope that when gut check time comes again the Mets will pass it with flying colors.
by kendynamo on Jul 28, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually a guess a group called Tweak Bird is opening
dont know anything about it but all the tour reviews i just spent the last hour readings sound good. heres the set list btw.
Jambi – Stinkfist – 46&2 – Schism – Lost Keys – Rosetta Stoned – Flood – Aenema – Lateralus – Vicarious
yeah im defintitley going to be reading about tool for the next 2 days.
Lets hope that when gut check time comes again the Mets will pass it with flying colors.
by kendynamo on Jul 28, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How do you know it WASN'T a purely journalistic question?
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 28, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't
but I suppose he might have mentioned it yesterday. He stated an interest to work in a front office or for a team or whatnot, so I’m going to assume it wasn’t journalistic in nature.
by James Kannengieser on Jul 28, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um.
Rubin’s been covering the team for years, in the clubhouse, in the offices, and via the minor-league affiliates.
He KNOWS how to get a job in a major-league organization.
by LeiterMilnerFasterStronger on Jul 28, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I mean, a journalistic question
to be used as a quote in an article.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Jul 28, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I only saw a very small part of the press conference they showed on sports center
But it sounded like what Minaya was trying to say wasn’t that bad he was just having issues finding the words to say it. It sounded more like when he FIRST heard the story he was suspect because of Rubins interest and that’s why they wanted to investigate on their own, not that he was saying Rubin concocted the whole story.
by Gina on Jul 28, 2009 10:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That was my impression also
In fact John Heyman earlier mentioned that all the Bernazard stories seemed to be coming from one writer, Rubin. In typical writer “speak” he left it as a vauge inference. And Heyman seems to have forgotten he wrote that or what his motivation was.
But now Omar has turned the NY press against him.
by blains2000 on Jul 28, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That may be the case
but why say that? It doesn’t have anything to do with why they called the press conference. Even if that was what he meant, it is still a subtle smear job of Rubin.
by SQUAD on Jul 28, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I assumed it was an explanation as for why they
didnt act immediately.
by Gina on Jul 28, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If that was the reason
Omar had an opportunity to clarify that at the second press conference, and didn’t. And then it definitely didn’t seem to be something that he wanted to say but just couldn’t articulate.
by Mount17 on Jul 28, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The fact of the matter is...
There’s no way Omar gets out of dodge without first degree burns over 70% of his body.
by Joe D. on Jul 28, 2009 11:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It's a bit unfair
Objectivity is crucial to the health of journalism but calling Rubin’s integrity into question over his tactful, general inquiries about a field is extreme, unrealistic, and unfair.
I’ve written some published articles in the past so I have some thoughts on the matter though, I admit, I’m far from being experienced in the field. It is not easy being a print journalist. There are so few writing jobs and those few that exist pay very poorly for the workload. Writers, too, are regular people with expenses and they must be able to explore opportunities for their financial wellbeing.
It is completely possible to do this without sacrificing credibility as long as the entrepenuerial journalist does not exhibit his goals in his writing. Had Rubin done what Minaya implied and written articles about Bernazard with the intention of taking his job, that would have been wrong. That’s not what happened, though.
by TheBigStapler on Jul 28, 2009 11:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
But Wilpon said that Rubin actually came to him for career advice.
And I doubt that the “advice” was how to be a beat writer….
Rubin should be reprimanded(at least)/fired(at best) not for doing this but for GETTING CAUGHT.
by MetsGod on Jul 28, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
one more thing....
…LIFE isn’t fair, Stapler. Whether it’s unfair to attack Rubin or not, that’s how things are when you’re EXPECTED to demonstrate the ethics that you have sworn to when you got the journalist job to begin with.
by MetsGod on Jul 28, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
demonstrate the ethics that you have sworn to when you got the journalist job
uh, dude, there is no oath you take when you get a job writing about sports. its not like getting sworn in as president. theres no hypocratic oath for journalist. they just give you a desk and a deadline.
and even if there was an oath, doing what rubin did would not be forbiddin by it.
Lets hope that when gut check time comes again the Mets will pass it with flying colors.
by kendynamo on Jul 28, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair...
… there’s no oath, per se. But there is a received code of ethics.
As TheLetter pointed out, said code may vary from job to job, but, generally speaking, approaching the people you’re covering about employment (Rubin’s worked covering a major-league team inside and out for five years; I would bet a testicle that this wasn’t a journalistic question) is a gray-to-black area— it’s off-limits, ethically. Whether or not it creates an actual conflict-of-interest is immaterial— what matters is that it creates an apparentconflict-of-interest. The press relies on some level of trust in its (relative) impartiality; when one of them may or may not be angling for a job with someone he is covering, it erodes that trust. (Again, that it’s all too common these days doesn’t make it any more ethical, in the same way— to a much-lesser degree, of course— that an increase in politician graft means bribery shouldn’t be illegal.)
by LeiterMilnerFasterStronger on Jul 28, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why is it off limits, ethically?
if rubin tried to exchange positive press for favors, yes, thats over the line. but just inquiering with wilpon because his has access, where is the conflict of interest? just because there is the possibility that rubin would act unethically? in that case than none of the reporters should accept the free buffett in the press booth either, because that could create the appearance of bias too.
trading favors, yes, not cool. using your business contacts to try and get your foot in the door? like i said, thats just networking to me.
Lets hope that when gut check time comes again the Mets will pass it with flying colors.
by kendynamo on Jul 28, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm with you, ken
networking is paramount in finding new or better employment in my business and, hey, if I’m adam rubin (I’m not), why wouldn’t I throw that flag up to someone like Jeff Wilpon? it at least let’s him know you’re interested in something and maybe it turns into a job.
i’d have an issue if there were some quid pro quo going on back here, or if Rubin began writing horrifically negative articles after being turned down for a job, but we have yet to see any evidence of these things.
I have plenty of issues with this situation, but not this aspect of it.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jul 28, 2009 4:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Omar called it out at the wrong time. Ok shame on him. But I never liked Rubin to begin with , and personnally I don’t care about all the hype this story is getting. But I’m sure that it will be lingering around for awhile , especially if the Mets start another extended losing streak.
by Jersey Mike on Jul 28, 2009 11:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
So it’s ok for Minaya to railroad Rubin because you didn’t like Rubin? Now THAT’S ethical.
by SQUAD on Jul 28, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it okay to go directly to the COO and ask about getting a job...
…when you’re supposed to be doing your OWN job in the interim?
Ethics? Rubin asks “Is that a new kind of twinkie I can eat?”
by MetsGod on Jul 28, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He can still do is own job while asking the question.
As long as he makes deadline. Not to mention it takes about 2.3 seconds to ask “How do you get into this business.” and the answer is probably 5 minutes long.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
by Evan_S on Jul 28, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, i think thats pretty much ok
i believe most people refer to that as networking.
Lets hope that when gut check time comes again the Mets will pass it with flying colors.
by kendynamo on Jul 28, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I refer to that as sneaky but whatever..
by MetsGod on Jul 28, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
do you mind me asking what you do for a living?
i cant think of any profession where stuff like this doesnt happen.
Lets hope that when gut check time comes again the Mets will pass it with flying colors.
by kendynamo on Jul 28, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I find it pretty far fetched
that Rubin’s motivation for writing the story had anything to do with him having interest in getting a job with the Mets. That doesn’t make any sense. I find it a lot less far fetched that Omar might have dropped Rubin’s name in the press conference as retribution for getting his buddy fired.
You don't cheer for the Mets. You drink for the Mets.
by Kevin H on Jul 28, 2009 12:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree...somewhat.
I don’t believe he had any interest in Tony’s job or any job with the Mets but he didn’t deny that he went and spoke with Wilpon about career advice when his job as a journalist for the Mets should’ve been asking questions regarding the Mets and ONLY the Mets.
by MetsGod on Jul 28, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree but
If you go back and look at a lot of the stories Rubin turned in on Tony B. he would always slip in adjectives that made it seem as if Tony B. was maniacal. These were not direct quotes from sources, but words he was choosing to use. Maybe that’s the vibe he got from his sources, but that’s why you have to be careful not to be too sensational when writing, it can come back to haunt you.
But, the Mets did fire him, so there really had to be something there, it wasn’t some huge exaggeration, obviously.
by David G on Jul 28, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't this be a more appropriate accusation
If Rubin had written false stories? It seems to me that there must have been some truth to the accusations. If Bernazard hadn’t actually done anything, would the Wilpons (questionable past personnel decisions aside) have axed him just on the say so of one Daily News reporter? I think this may be one of those rare times where things are what they seem, and Omar tried to smear Rubin as vengeance for being forced to fire Bernazard. That being said, I think Rubin should probably have realized that asking the front office he covered for advice might be seen as unethical even if it actually isn’t (and I’m not saying anything either way on that one), and shouldn’t be so surprised or act so hurt and offended. And whether or not I agree with the rest of this, I do agree with James that I am tired of seeing all these other journalists martyring one of there own
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage
by blueandorange4life on Jul 28, 2009 12:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Rubin had every right to be surprised, hurt, and offended
What Minaya accused him of was a major, hyper-serious breach of ethics, a potential firing offense, not just a breach of decorum. Even if the guy had had slightly inappropriate career-advice conversations with the Wilpons, Minaya’s accusation was completely on another level, and (assuming he wasn’t actually using his column to “lobby” for a job for himself!) his reaction of shock seems appropriate and genuine. If you accuse your doctor of deliberately killing his last patient, he’s still got a perfect right to be shocked — even if he once recently forgot to wash his hands.
by anonymous on Jul 28, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see what you're saying
I still think he’s being a bit too emotional about it. Saying that he couldn’t cover the team anymore while Omar is GM, even after Jeff Wilpon defended his actions (or seemed to anyway), just feels like a bit much.
Minaya definitely was much more out of line, but Rubin is making, well, not a mountain out of a mole hill, but an Everest out of a smaller mountain I guess.
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage
by blueandorange4life on Jul 28, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, I mean, at this point
it’d be tough to argue Rubin can avoid a perceived conflict after Omar pulled that shit at the press conf.
by jasondg on Jul 28, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rubin had reason, yes.
But there’s a reason why “professionalism” is a valued characteristic— it’s difficult, and often means eschewing the natural, “human” reaction. The journalist avoids making himself the story at virtually all costs— even when your ethics are called into question by someone in the story.
Omar acted unprofessionally. When he launched into an active defense of his actions in that forum, so, too, did Rubin.
by LeiterMilnerFasterStronger on Jul 28, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Minaya and Wilpon both offer contradictory accounts of the nature of Rubins query
I don’t think you can take much of it at face value. Although Wipon’s, GK&R’s and Rubin’s account seem much closer.
Rubin wasn’t asking for a job. He was asking “How does one get a job doing that”. It was more exploratory and seems to fit within the bounds of his job. I don’t think there is a conflict of interest here.
If anything, Minaya should have woken up this moring to a pink slip from Wilpon for such a horrific display.
by Chickendirt on Jul 28, 2009 1:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Rashomon factor
If Minaya’s account is true[st], then it taints Wilpon as badly or worse than Rubin: if Rubin was putting him into an unethical conflict of interest, Wilpon should have done something immediately about restricting R’s credentials/access to the team. The whole span between question and “mini-bombshell” is evidence against Fred Wilpon acting as the proverbial “good man who says nothing” while Rubin is covering his club and appearing on his TV station.
Of course, everyone’s account makes them sound most innocent… surprise, surprise.
phliadelphoe ite domum!
by Doc Manhattan on Jul 28, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ooooooooooooooooooooo poor adam rubin
by Jersey Mike on Jul 28, 2009 2:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm not a big fan of Rubin.
I think he tends to follow the trend of NY media and focus too much on instigating controversy. I never really liked that he was writing for Baseball America…I thought he tended to focus too much attention to prospects in Binghamton and Brooklyn, while it was rare to see much analysis on a player outside of easy driving distance. He had responsibilities with the Mets, and I believe those responsibilities kept him from covering the minors very well.
That said, I really don’t take issue with Rubin asking how to get “in” to a career in baseball. I really believe that most reporters making any attempt to cover the minors would love the opportunity to work for an organization instead of covering them. If he kept his questions general and wasn’t specifically looking for a job with the Mets, I really can’t see too many comprimising issues with that conversation.
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Schmidtxc on Jul 28, 2009 2:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well I have a question regarding adam...
If he wanted to find out how to get into the “Baseball” business, why didn’t he just go to Human Resources of the Mets or some other organization and find out there?
Why go all the way to the top to ask the top dog?? Seems awfully fishy to me….
by MetsGod on Jul 28, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because he has access?
I guess if you have access to Jeffy, why would you settle for asking what a mid-level HR person thinks it takes to break into baseball.
Not saying it’s right or wrong (although I don’t particularly see any huge issue about it), but why not go to the top if you have the ability to do so?
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jul 28, 2009 3:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I'd argue that it is less "fishy" to ask Wilpon.
Going to the HR department would indicate more of an interest in a job with the Mets, I’d hardly think the type of position Rubin would be qualified for (if any) would be one that Wilpon hired directly.
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Schmidtxc on Jul 28, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Less "fishy?"
Dunno. Depends on what you mean.
Less traceable than making a phone call, appointment, or resume drop? Yes.
by LeiterMilnerFasterStronger on Jul 28, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Less fishy because
“If I wanted to work in baseball in a few years, how would I go about, say, getting a job working in the minor leagues?” is entirely different from “I want a job in this organization,” which is the only reason you’d talk to HR.
by SupT on Jul 28, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody is clean here
But Omar definitely came out looking the dirtiest. He was vengeful, spiteful, petty and conniving. I don’t think that’s up for debate. Wilpon knew he was out of line, which is why that second press conference was hastily called. Omar’s accusations only had weight if Rubin’s story didn’t check out. It did, and that’s why he had zero business bringing it up.
You can debate forever the gray area that Rubin crossed and not get a satisfactory answer. He may have gone past a point of no return (Rubin crossing the Rubicon if you will- check out that wordplay, Daily News! I can write headlines! How can I get a job?). I digress. Rubin has the full support of his paper and his job is not in danger. Can’t really say the same about Omar, can we? Although that guaranteed contract sure helps.
by David G on Jul 28, 2009 4:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Omar could have helped himself by producing a point to his comments.
Had Omar made the point of mentioning Rubin’s lobbying for a job in the past as a reason the Mets took longer than usual with their investigation, I’m sure Rubin himself would still be insulted. I doubt, however, that the media uproar would be the same as it has been. To hint that Rubin wrote the story (which by all indications was accurate) to steal Tony’s job is ridiculous. I’d assume a guy with no background in baseball would start in a much lower position. If Omar had a point to make with his comments, he really needed to make them clear.
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Schmidtxc on Jul 28, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Omar should have left it be when he answered the questions about Tony Bum. But he didnt and it sure has made for convo hasnt it.
by Jersey Mike on Jul 28, 2009 4:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not a conflict of interest if ...
If Rubin asked merely in general terms how to break into the business, then I don’t see a conflict of interest. Nor do I see one even if he asked if it were possible to work one day in the Mets’ front office.
If he actually “lobbies” for a job, which involves pressure and persuasion, then I see a potential conflict of interest. However, if he resorted to pressure and persuasion, why didn’t Omar and Jeff report any inappropriate behavior to the editors of the Daily News? Why didn’t they warn Rubin about it?
IMO, they didn’t do this because what Rubin did really wasn’t improper. And they knew it. Omar just pulled it out at the press conference to insinuate Rubin had an ulterior motive for writing what were embarrassing stories for him. He used it for character assassination.
Jeff Wilpon has just come out in the last hour or so to personally apologize to Rubin. He said Omar had made a mistake and embarrassed the organization and Omar will be calling Rubin personally to apologize himself. Wilpon said that what Rubin did was not improper and that he is asked similar questions by others all the time. So I think that says it all about Rubin’s actions in the past regarding his career. There was nothing improper there.
by caseyB on Jul 28, 2009 6:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Journalists
Have off the record discussions all the time, discussing all manner of things. I personally don’t see the problem with this. If a journalist were friends with a player on the Mets, no one would criticize him for that. He would only be criticized if this friendship was appearing to affect his work and affecting his objectivity. Likewise, going to someone you have known for a number of years (whether the acquaintance was made through covering the Mets is immaterial) and asking them for career advice off the record is fine. Just like the friendship, it only becomes unethical or a conflict of interest when it begins to affect your objectivity. In this case, it does not appear to have affected Rubin’s objectivity. So, IMO, there is no issue here.
by hocke26 on Jul 28, 2009 11:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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