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They gave up an awful lot to get him.
My initial reaction is that I’m glad Philly did this one. I can’t see them having the money to make any big moves this offseason now, and most of what they gave up is ready to play in the majors right now.
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Jul 29, 2009 2:07 PM EDT reply actions
They did give up alot to get him
Thankfully they did not get Roy Halladay.
Lopez wants it away, and it's hit deep to left center, Andruw Jones on the run, this one has a chance... home run!!, Mike Piazza!, and the Mets lead 3 to 2!!
-Howie Rose
Gary Thorne=Simply the Best!
by The American Mr.Hockey on Jul 29, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Not that much.
I personally don’t like Donald or Carrasco that much any more, especially Donald. Marson should be a solid catcher, but nothing amazing.
The best guy is Knapp who is really young still, but has a ton of upside and a great pitchers build.
To think they made the trade without giving up any of Drabek, Brown or Taylor is amazing IMO.
Yeah the Knapp kid could become a pretty good pitcher.
Lopez wants it away, and it's hit deep to left center, Andruw Jones on the run, this one has a chance... home run!!, Mike Piazza!, and the Mets lead 3 to 2!!
-Howie Rose
Gary Thorne=Simply the Best!
by The American Mr.Hockey on Jul 29, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Carrasco is the Phillies Jon Niese.
Decent peripherals in AAA, 22 yrs old, less than stellar ERA and W/L, many fans have given up on him. He still should be a decent ML starter, and Knapp has top flight stuff. They probably managed to get Donald and Marson at their lowest value, and I think both will be ML players even if they aren’t stars.
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Jul 29, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
They are very different.
Carrasco has amazing stuff, but the pitching brains of Ollie P. Niese just needed to add another pitch, which he did, and has now been successful.
The pitching brains of Ollie P thing is pretty unfair to Carrasco.
He’s a 22 year old kid still learning to pitch.
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Jul 29, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
have you watched carrasco pitch?
his stuff is NOT “amazing”…he throws a 89-91mph fastball with moderate command, a slurvy, inconsistent curve and a very good changeup…not bad but by no means is that amazing
by Rob Castellano on Jul 29, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I have seen him pitch
several times this year, I live near allentown. I’m not a scout, but I’d say he has pretty impressive stuff and definitely hit higher than that on the gun pretty regularly.
His stuff is good, not that impressive, honestly.
Changeup is the only real plus pitch.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
I would imagine the Cleveland is cleaning house
Ryan Garko, Cliff Lee, and Victor Martinez is probably next.
Lopez wants it away, and it's hit deep to left center, Andruw Jones on the run, this one has a chance... home run!!, Mike Piazza!, and the Mets lead 3 to 2!!
-Howie Rose
Gary Thorne=Simply the Best!
by The American Mr.Hockey on Jul 29, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
They did 2 days ago...
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Jul 29, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Mr. Hockey made that point
so I had to assume it wasn’t sarcasm.
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Jul 29, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Who needs Cliff Lee when you can have Jermaine Dye!
He did win a World Series, right? What have Cliff Lee or Ben Francisco won?
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but Jerry abuses the privilege.
I don't think they gave up very much....
Carrasco is a very good prospect who has pitched much better then his traditionals show in AAA. He is a nice prospect. Knapp has a great arm, and could end up pretty good, but he is real young and there is a long way to go until that happens, if ever. Marson and Donald are meh prospects to me, and not really anything to write home about. I thought Amaro made a great deal here, and my first impression is Shapiro got bent down on this one. Cliff Lee is an awesome pitcher, in fact since the beginning of 2008, he has been just as good as Roy Halladay, at half the cost. I think this is an awesome move for Philly.
"It's like the old phrase goes.....The balls in your court now Mr.Church, so you take that ball, you dribble it up the court and....................................... get a layup"
- Keith Hernandez
or even Happ
who is currently pitching in the Bigs.
this seems like a pretty good deal for the phillies, they gave up: 1) a AAA pitcher who couldnt stick in their rotation this year; 2) a A pitcher, 3) a shortstop who is likely blocked because they will have to continue to employ Rollins (and whose bat doesnt really play at 3B) and 4) a catcher who couldnt beat out Carlos Ruiz for playing time.
Now I think these are 4 legit prospects, but cleveland missed the boat by not getting at least 1 of Brown, Drabek and Happ.
no, it's not a lot
Marson is a high contact guy who pounds the ball into the ground way too much; plus, CLE has Carlos Santana, who’s way better, blocking him.
Donald should be a serviceable regular, but nothing special.
Knapp is a low-minors pitching prospect with a high ceiling and some arm troubles.
Carrasco is just totally meh, in my opinion.
They didnt give up any 'A- or B+'prospect
Great deal for Phillies, managed to keep Brown, Drabek, Taylor
All of those guys are quality prospects (B,B-) but neither of them is of the Fmart or Mejia caliber in my opinion
Catchers, shortstops, and strikeout pitchers
are much harder to find then corner outfield prospects. I think that Taylor and Brown are solid prospects, but their numbers are less impressive coming from a corner outfiled spot.
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Jul 29, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Knapp>Guerra
Carrasco>Mulvey
Marson or Donald>Humber
Gomez> Donald or Marson
Santana >>>>>>>>>>> Lee
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Jul 29, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Santana > Lee?
All things considered, we bought one year of him and the right to sign him for free agent price (not below)
Lee has had great numbers for 1and 1/2 seasons now and is under control for this year and next year well below market price
I’d say Lee might have higher value than Johan had
Johan may have cost more money,
but he cost less in prospects and is the far superior pitcher.
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Jul 29, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
"is the far superior pitcher."
anything to back that up? The stats for the last two seasons disagree
Lee had a career year last season, by far the best of his career.
Johan had as good a year for the Mets last season. Johan’s season was right in line with his career norms, and it’s hard to call it a fluke. He’s traditionally a 2nd half pitcher, and isn’t far off of his career norms this season. Lee this season has been nothing special. He gives up more than a hit per inning, and K’s 6.7 per 9. The two pitchers had 1 season in which they were comparable, and the rest of their career to prove they aren’t.
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Jul 29, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Mark Shapiro still overrated
King of the bling come to lay down the evidence//Not George Bush, L-Millz be da president
The guy makes out well in nearly every trade he makes.
It’s hard to to blame him for not being able to have a respectable payroll, when he has to move those players he always gets useful pieces in return.
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Jul 29, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
useful isn't good enough
how do you give up the reigning cy young, who is a lefty with 2 more very cheap years under contract and not get any of the phillies top 3 prospects? no excuse, shapiro blew it
by Rob Castellano on Jul 29, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Does the CY Young really matter?
He had a career year last season, but does that make him a truly elite pitcher? Jarrod Washburn is putting up far better numbers than Lee right now. Lee is a good pitcher, but take last season out of the equation and his career numbers look fairly average.
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Jul 29, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
asfdgfhgjhk
Jarrod Washburn is putting up far better numbers than Lee right now.
King of the bling come to lay down the evidence//Not George Bush, L-Millz be da president
by Sam Page on Jul 29, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
+100
if we didn’t rip off the twins for santana i’d be really pissed right now. but if you figure we were really only trading for the right to negotiate with santana, this could be even worse considering they’ve got lee for 2 years.
by Rob Castellano on Jul 29, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
well, that's only because of Santana's no-trade and his demands
He was under contract for a season; Lee is under contract for the rest of this + next year.
Hate to do it
but this FanShot could use some work. We all know Lee was actually traded, but maybe a link would help? Or some more information about the trade? Which players changed teams?
by James Kannengieser on Jul 29, 2009 3:04 PM EDT reply actions
yeah, this is a terrible post
At least give us a link and the details of the trade.
Find your own links
I broke the story first.
Lopez wants it away, and it's hit deep to left center, Andruw Jones on the run, this one has a chance... home run!!, Mike Piazza!, and the Mets lead 3 to 2!!
-Howie Rose
Gary Thorne=Simply the Best!
by The American Mr.Hockey on Jul 29, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
This isn't a race, there are no prizes for "breaking" a story first
Quality is more important than speed.
by James Kannengieser on Jul 29, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Who did you get the scoop from? The Phillies FO, the Indians FO, or an agent?
King of the bling come to lay down the evidence//Not George Bush, L-Millz be da president
by Sam Page on Jul 29, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Im never on Pinstripe Alley
Lopez wants it away, and it's hit deep to left center, Andruw Jones on the run, this one has a chance... home run!!, Mike Piazza!, and the Mets lead 3 to 2!!
-Howie Rose
Gary Thorne=Simply the Best!
by The American Mr.Hockey on Jul 29, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions
You sure???
http://www.pinstripealley.com/2009/6/5/900324/yankee-fans-i-need-your-approval-i
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Jul 29, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Ive answered for that post exactly 1,000,000 times
A user here said to go bother Yankee fans, so I did.
Lopez wants it away, and it's hit deep to left center, Andruw Jones on the run, this one has a chance... home run!!, Mike Piazza!, and the Mets lead 3 to 2!!
-Howie Rose
Gary Thorne=Simply the Best!
by The American Mr.Hockey on Jul 29, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Can you prove this?
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
look for the comment
its here somewhere.
Lopez wants it away, and it's hit deep to left center, Andruw Jones on the run, this one has a chance... home run!!, Mike Piazza!, and the Mets lead 3 to 2!!
-Howie Rose
Gary Thorne=Simply the Best!
by The American Mr.Hockey on Jul 29, 2009 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions
You are giving all hockey fans
a bad name.
You broke the story first? Seriously? For real for real? Does Buster Olney like hockey?
"It's like the old phrase goes.....The balls in your court now Mr.Church, so you take that ball, you dribble it up the court and....................................... get a layup"
- Keith Hernandez
You did post it...
I have no doubt that you’re a Mets fan, but what self respecting community could just drop something like that?
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Jul 29, 2009 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Broke the story first?
You? American Mr. Hockey was the FIRST to realize this?
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
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