Minaya credited Ricco with proposing the Francoeur-for-Ryan Church swap that was swiftly executed a month ago..
almost 3 years ago
MetsGod
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Wow...
…If that’s true, then it’s not good news for Anti-Frenchy people here. ’Cause it pretty much guarantees that Frenchy remains a Met for now and most likely the foreseeable future.
I don’t mind, personally, since I’m a Frenchy supporter but I feel like IF(big IF) Riccio can find someone better(whom the mets are ABLE to get), he’ll do it. But I just have a feeling that Francouer will be our RF’er for the next 3-4 years….Be afraid. Be very afraid.
That's our next Mets GM right there.
I hear Yuniesky Betancourt’s available. Let’s trade Reyes for him.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
Can we please hire someone from this board as the Mets GM?
hell…even I can do a better job as GM(despite my Frenchy fandom) with this team.
I’d fire Manuel, hire Backman, and tell Razor Shines to go on a diet.
I feel like what the mets really need is a President of Baseball Operations or something, those are the right words
So the gm isn’t basically all powerful, or so the gm can have more of a focus on the putting a team together part.
Could you also ask Razor to undergo a mental health evaluation?
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!
Didn't Omar credit Ricco with this idea from the beginning?
I coulda sworn reading maybe Lennon or some other beat writer who brought that out not too long after the trade.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Aug 11, 2009 12:25 PM EDT reply actions
He credited him with suggesting frenchy
I’m not sure it was ever known who’s idea it was to swap Church for Frenchy.
Gotcha both
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Aug 11, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
That trade was not a bad one
Church was a bench player on a good team at least Frenchy can start on almost any team
No.
No no no no no. Just no.
Church>Francoeur. Name another team that would/should have Francoeur starting.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
Buffalo Bisons?
Maybe he meant Francoeur could start on almost any college team?
Brewers Rays Mariners Jays
I don’t think those teams would take him but they could all use him.It’s not like this is the worst possible trade that Omar could have made
by Jadden Hopkins on Aug 11, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
He wouldn't really be starting for most of those teams
He’d be a 4th outfielder forced into starting because of injuries. Which would make him a bench player on a good team.
But so does Francoeur
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Aug 11, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously.
Pretty sure Francouer’s about below replacement even as a hitter alone.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
Yeah
Batting: -14.6 runs
and because he’s good at fielding: -1 run
somehow his replacement is 14.6. WAR: -.6.
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Aug 11, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Rays, really?
Crawford, LF/ Upton, CF / Gross (.352 wOBA) or Kapler, RF (.330 wOBA) = Not to mention how good they are defending
Frenchy .289 wOBA
you can keep repeating the same lines about Francoeur
it doesn’t make them true. he still sucks.
This is laughable.
The Rays RF platoon situation is actually very strong. Gabe Gross: .746 OPS vs Righties and Gabe Kapler .957 OPS vs Lefties. I think they’ll take that platoon over Francoeur’s .683, not to mention the $1mil less they are paying both of them combined.
Sorry.
I should have read further down the reply thread…looks like you all have this covered.
oh, for chrissake.
This is completely false. Church is a significantly more valuable player than Francoeur by any metric other than media affection.
These are the stats of both players since that deal went down
Francouer
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7594
Church
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7415
Thus far I think we did get the better end of the deal. There’s still a ways to go to really judge it but I don’t think Atlanta can really run around proclaiming they are even close to clear cut winners in that deal. It’s not even marjinal.
I would also say that Church probably has better protection in that Atlanta lineup as well.
you posted links, but did you actually look at the stats?
Church OPS as a Brave: .844
Francoeur OPS as a Met: .770
You're looking at the wrong stats pal
RsBI – Jeff has 19, Church has 9. Combine that with runs scored then Jeff has 29 RaRsBI and Church has 21 RaRsBI. Last time I checked to point of baseball is to win not walk and to win you have to score more runs. If 1 win is equal to 10 runs as you guys say, Jeff has been worth nearly 1 win more than Church or worth more than 4.5 Million dollars. Add the latter with the fact that Frenchy knows how to stay healthy and has a rocket arm and I think you see who won this trade. Touchdown Mets!
Bubblewrap....lots of bubblewrap
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Aug 11, 2009 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Rocket arm?
Or laser, rocket arm?
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Aug 11, 2009 7:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
haha
Peyton Manning for right fielder!
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 11, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Can he pitch?
He’d Certainly be better than Sean F’n Green….
You also forgot to mention
that Church is a part time player and Frenchy plays everyday.So the OPS doesn’t really count
by Jadden Hopkins on Aug 11, 2009 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions
this is what i never understood about the anger behind this trade
we’re so mad about which one is better, but we should be mad that we would want either one starting for us. They’re capable 4th outfielders but nothing more.
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 11, 2009 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions
But he was better...
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Aug 11, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah,
i like Church better, but i really cant find myself worked up over this trade like everyone else
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 11, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions
For me it's the thought process behind the trade
(or lack thereof)
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Aug 11, 2009 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed but we're not arguing whether their thought process was right or wrong
but whether the trade was good in retrospect, which is kinda pointless. I think the discussion should be more about the lack of thought process and less about which player happens to be slightly hotter at the moment.
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 11, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
true
just trying to move it back to reasonable discourse. I’d love this to drift back to the conversation about Ricco vs Omar, since I’m honestly somewhat ignorant of Ricco’s past activities with the Mets, and wouldn’t mind learning more. (aside from his very clear stance on the church/frenchy trade).
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 11, 2009 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Well obviously it's not trading an all-star for crap
But trading down, even if it’s only slightly down, is still dumb, and it’s the smaller less obvious deals, or the lack of them, that consistently hurt this club.
Well Church in a platoon is a lot better than Frenchy in a platoon
Neither should play everyday but between the two Church is better.
I disagree
But that’s okay. I’m a Frenchy fan so I’m just a little eensy-weensy BIASED… :)
Well why do you disagree?
Church has mashed righties most of his career, where as Frenchy has been equally bad from both sides of the plate.
I know that.
But if you read my post, it was a bit tongue-in-cheek. :)
I'm not saying we won the trade
I’m just saying it’s not fair to use OPS when comparing the two
by Jadden Hopkins on Aug 11, 2009 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd disagree with that.
Church has been a part timer, Francoeur hasn’t, so using stats that measure frequencies are the only ones that should be looked at. Hits, Walk, K, and HR totals aren’t as important as the frequency in which they occur
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Aug 11, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
IT DOESN'T COUNT BECAUSE FRANCOUER'S LOSING OMG OMG
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
And he SUX OMG!!
AND HE TYPES IN CAPS, TOO!!
OMG!!
Oh wait….I type in Caps!
OMG OMG OMG!!!! I TYPE IN CAPS!!! * starts dancing around and windmilling his hands like Razor Shines on 3rd base *
BOO-YAH!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Oh, man, this comment is hilarious.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
I really really really don't get it
Ryan Church SUCKS.. he wasn’t hitting for the Mets, he couldn’t stay on the field, he made one of the most notable mistakes in a year that has been a comedy of errors, he’s almost 31, he’s a jew hater (doesn’t work well when you play in Queens see: Jewish task Force.) Francoeur is a) much younger b) MUCH more talented c) Is still fixable with a competent hitting coach (see: Jayson Werth and just about every other Philly outfielder) d) has done more in a month than Church did all season. Dude is 25 years old, that’s nothing.. I honestly don’t understand why all of you are PMSing about this trade. We need a moneyball GM, and thats exactly what Ricco could bring.. it’s a no brainer in my opinion.
President of the Ramses Barden Fan Club
I agree One Hundred Percent.
A “no-brainer” is EXACTLY how I’d describe your entire argument.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Aug 11, 2009 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
give me an example of how
a 31 year old who can’t stay healthy is more valuable to the future of the mets than a 25 year old? I hate Omar as much as any other and i’ve been calling for his head since the last week of ‘07.. but they made a shrewd move in this case. Even if Francoeur is just a platoon player next year or a 4th outfielder.. then he’s a pretty good platoon player/4th outfielder.
President of the Ramses Barden Fan Club
by Hoyadestroya85 on Aug 11, 2009 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
The thing is he's not
a pretty good platoon/4th outfielder, and definitely not any better of a platoon 4th outfielder than Church.
define "pretty good"
For values of “pretty good” other than “sub-replacement-level,” your statement is false.
Because the 31 year old who can't stay healthy
Is a lot better than the 25 year old? Frenchy has been in the majors what 5 years? And has consistently been getting worse since his debut.
Neither has this guy...
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Aug 11, 2009 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I bet that would sell tickets...
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Aug 11, 2009 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Would you buy one to witness the gruesome Carnage?
I’d rather watch a UFC fight between Omar Minaya and Brock Lesnar, actually.
At this point I'd welcome any event at citifield
which was more interesting than the team we’re running out there every night.
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Aug 11, 2009 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm guessing its not a situation that comes up often
but if anyone can do it the mets can
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 11, 2009 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions
That could happen.
The season is still young enough, unlike our own “CORE” players.
I'd would certainly be a better way to send guys to the DL than falling down the dugout steps
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Aug 11, 2009 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Thing is, that's not true.
If you actually looked at statistics instead of blindly spewing ill concieved WFAN talking points from your mouth, you’d know that.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
Francoeur is the Anti-christ of a moneyball approach.
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Aug 11, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow I didnt even see the moneyball reference
I’m a little offended that he could write that and then say we need a moneyball gm.
well, we did buy low on him.
The problem is, we didn’t buy as low as his actual value.
But isn't it usually trading for undervalued players
We traded an undervalued player for an overvalued one. It’s like the anti-money ball trade.
the fact
that we were able to get a legitimate major league quality player for Church made me absolutely ecstatic.. the guy has had his moments, but he hasn’t been good. Francouer is the better player with the higher ceiling.
President of the Ramses Barden Fan Club
by Hoyadestroya85 on Aug 11, 2009 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
What player was that?
You really aren’t saying Frenchy is a legitimate ML caliber player, are you?
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Aug 11, 2009 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Who's be counted on as a starter,
and was traded for a starter.
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Aug 11, 2009 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions
im not arguing that church isnt better
i’m arguing that neither would be my first choice for a starting corner outfielder. I’m in the Church is better camp as well, but ultimately this trade neither fixed nor caused a problem that didn’t already exist. We’ve made plenty of bad trades before and this is far from the worst, but everyone is treating it like it was the onset of armageddon.
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 11, 2009 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the problem is
When our team is healthy we’re always good enough to win 88-92 games because of our stars but our supporting cast holds us back from doing any better. The fact that the front office consistently makes the wrong decision when it comes to small moves like this means that there’s no real reason to expect them to suddenly surround our stars with the type of supporting cast necessary to ever be good enough to actually win anything, unless we just get really lucky. And since the chances of the Wilpons opening up the pocket book to bring in another star, as long as the front office consistently makes these small bad moves we’re going to stay just good enough to never win anything, and likely waste in incredible core of talent.
*No, no, he's totally a starting outfielder...
for the Bisons.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
i understand that Francoeur isn't the future
but there is no argument that he belongs in the big leagues in some capacity whether it is situational or a full blown starter, but a bunch of you are acting like this is Kazmir for Zambrano or Ryan for Fregosi.. it’s a fairly even trade but you can’t in your right mind argue that it’s a bad trade.. it might not be a good trade but who knows, it might turn out being brilliant..
President of the Ramses Barden Fan Club
by Hoyadestroya85 on Aug 11, 2009 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions
or it could be just eh..
the fact is that it happened and we didn’t lose much.
President of the Ramses Barden Fan Club
by Hoyadestroya85 on Aug 11, 2009 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I actually disagree with that assessment.
Frenchy is only 25 years old and he can still salvage his career at this point. Whether it’s with us or on some other team remains to be seen.
But man…I am rooting very hard for this guy to get it together….
Um you kind of just described frenchy
He was good for a year, and has been awful for 4 straight years. He had his moment and hasn’t been good.
He was further from good though...
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/francje02.shtml
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Aug 11, 2009 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions
In fact frenchy wasnt even that good in the minors
So were did the idea come that he has some high ceiling?
Maybe he was referring to his house?
I mean with the Money Frenchy is making, his house must have HIGH CEILINGS after all.
Okay, let's see:
Overblown accusation of anti-Semitism: Check.
Fixation on a single play you happened to be watching rather than aggregate data: Check.
Unverifiable assertions about “talent”: Check.
Casually tossed-in misogyny: Check.
Total absence of any supporting evidence: Check.
Misunderstanding of the meaning of Moneyball: Check.
I think I have a Scotty bingo!
(PS: Anyone want to make up AA/WFAN-caller Scotty Bingo cards, so we can keep score at home?)
i read moneyball
and i know exactly what it means.. sabermetrics to try to build a team that is successful but cheap, evening playing field for a team without unlimited cash. Jeff Francoeur does not make sense from a moneyball perspective but the mets will never have to be a strict moneyball team like the A’s because butts will be in the seats therefore they will generate revenue. Upgrade the scouting department, and hire Ricco.. that’s what i’m saying
President of the Ramses Barden Fan Club
by Hoyadestroya85 on Aug 11, 2009 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Cheap doesn't really matter in this case, as neither team took on additional money.
Fact is, the move made no sense from a baseball point of view except for getting younger. That’s the only possible justification for the move.
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Aug 11, 2009 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't really want to get involved in this convo but fyi
moneyball wasn’t about “sabermetrics to try to build a team that is successful but cheap.” It was about Billy Beane using the resources at hand and trying to build a good team by using undervalued talent. OBP was undervalued as were college players at the time, so Beane invested his limited resources in that. However, since the book, OBP is property valued as is college players if not overvalued so in the past couple of years Beane has been trying to build a team with defense and drafting many more HS players. Beane doesn’t care about sabermetrics, he cares about how he market values a commodity and how he can find undervalued talent.
No, dude, you don't.
You don’t seem to understand almost everything about the Mets front office. Scouting department is not our problem. Our minor league system is above average.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
Also werth has always smashed lefties
there wasn’t any fixing involved, his at bats against righties were just limited.
He also wasn't a full time player,
and played much better defense.
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Aug 11, 2009 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
that’s actually a really good comp
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Aug 11, 2009 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, Jason Werth sounds just like...
A WORLD SERIES CHAMPION.
Something Church will never be.
wow, this is trollish
We've got ourselves a ball club, the Mets of New York town!
by kingcritical on Aug 11, 2009 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions
yes, flagged
I think MetsGod’s idea of having fun and joking around is pretty much indistinguishable from drive-by trolling at this point.
I apologize for that Trolling crap I put.
It really has no place in this community.
I let my Joking devolve into something stupid. Sorry if I offended anyone here.
The Moderators didn't.
And I don’t want to get banned so I’ll knock it off as far as “praising the evil Philly empire” and bashing Church…
Sorry, Squiddy.
I messed up, man. I was trying too hard to be funny and ended up being just like those Trolls out there.
That’s not what I am. I want to be a productive member of this community.
I know you try.
:)
In all seriousness, I know you’re not meanspirited about almost all of this, so it’s all good.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
Well I got a warning so.
It’s Strike 2 now. One more and I’m out for good(or I’ll have to come back as another poster which I don’t want to ’cause the name MetsGod is COOL.)
okay...that's another good one.
but I wonder, though.
Say I come back under that name. Will I get banned again ’cause the Moderator would know who I was?
They probably would know either way
I’m pretty sure that SB-Nation blog administrators are able to check IP address.
"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"
Welcome to FrancouerAvenue, formerly known as AmazinAvenue.
I was worried we were going to go 24 hours without a Francouer post.
Luckily, we have a chance to discuss something new and interesting, such as how Francouer has a low OBP, and how Church is better than Francouer.
Never gets old.
Tune in Wednesday for a lively discussion of “Francouer’s WAR sucks.” And remember Thursday is always “Francouer’s UZR Sucks Day”.
All Francouer, all the time.
why don't you leave, then?
ain't had enough...
by BlackOps on Aug 11, 2009 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Seriously...
C’mon, man. Stop poo-poo-ing this thread. It’s the first ever Fanshot of MINE that actually made the “Front Pages” of Amazinavenue.com
Thanks to the Moderators who chose to put it there. I’ve come a long way from the days of having the community guidelines link shoved in my face.
Thank god that doesn’t happen anymore. :)
If only Frenchy learned his lessons too, he would be
a superstar average instead of below average :)
Since it is apparent that you still have not read them,
please take a few minutes:
Community Guidelines. Comment guidelines.
We've got ourselves a ball club, the Mets of New York town!
by kingcritical on Aug 11, 2009 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Also I apologize for the overexaggerated reactions
Like posting a pic of Charlie Brown doing his signature “Augh” moment. I thought it to be amusing but I guess that was just a bit over the top.
A simple AAARRRGHH! from me would’ve sufficed.
Sorry about that.
By the way
I’m still not reading them.
Just so you know.
I kinda agree with Mex here. The original point of this thread seemed to be to discuss the pros and cons of Ricco
not of francoeur and church…or at least i thought so, it has just descended into Frenchy-madness like every conversation that involves the word stats does. I’m sure Ricco has done other things in his Mets tenure aside from help brainstorm one trade. The discussion has just derailed. We all know where the battle lines are drawn on this trade already.
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 11, 2009 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly though,
what do we know about Ricco besides that he brought up Francoeur as an option?
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Aug 11, 2009 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions
We need more information on this guy..
C’mon, Gina. You should do some investigative work on Riccio-Suave. You’d probably do a better job at it then – dare I say it? – ADAM RUBIN! (Omfg!! lol)
thats my problem with this thread
we dont know anything about the guy, so we all revert back to the same arguments we’ve made a thousand times before. It feels like its turned into space filler instead of informative dialogue.
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 11, 2009 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Which really stinks 'cause it's my first fanshot that made it to prime time...
And it ends up devolving into WHINE-Time. :(
it was a good concept but the mention of francoeur or church
immediately sends everyone into a frenzy. I was hoping somebody could shed some light on Ricco
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 11, 2009 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, I agree
There’s certainly a strong YHBT. YHL. HAND. stench coming off this thread at this point. And we regulars should all probably have a little more restraint with the Scotties who keep showing up, oblivious to evidence, and shouting “Frenchy wuz an upgrade!!!” one more time. But Christ, it annoys me how blinkered these people are.
yeah i think we have to start pretending those comments don't happen and just discuss around them
because they’re spreading like wildfire to every conversation about anything.
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 11, 2009 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I was advocating elsewhere for more flagging
But I’m not sure it’d really be fair to define “trolling” as airing the same idiotic opinion again and again, when the poster seems to honestly believe it, in pure moronic good faith.
yeah i think if its just stating the same argument over and over again
its not really flag-worthy, but blatantly antagonistic statments probably need to be flagged a bit more
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 11, 2009 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Frenchy was an upgrade
He doesn’t miss 3rd base. Yuk! Yuk! Yuk!
I had to look up all those acronyms.
I am not entirely clear on internets dialogue sometimes.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Aug 11, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
President of the Ramses Barden Fan Club
by Hoyadestroya85 on Aug 11, 2009 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
How about you actually contribute, then?
Make an actually useful post, put up a FanPost giving good facts on a different topic. And like BlackOps says, you can just go, you know, instead of being a troll.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
So, here is some info about John Ricco
Background:
John Ricco has been with the Mets organization since April 2004. Prior to that he spent 12 years in the Office of the Commissioner and worked there in a number of different capacities. He spent the bulk of his tenure there as the Director of Contract and Salary Administration, essentially managing the Labor Relations department. At that position he also worked with Major League GMs, ensuring their compliance with the Collective Bargaining Agreement.
Team
Together with his two headed stat team of Ben Baumer and Adam Fisher, Ricco has formed one of the more successful departments within the Mets front office. Yes some bad contracts have been doled out on his watch, yet it has been well documented that Omar is known to go against his advisers, such as in this Post article from 2007. From what I’ve read about Baumer, I doubt ANY stat projection he handed Ricco was a green light to give Oliver Perez $36 million over 3 years.
Omar decision making
A lot of times it goes against Omar 3-1 and he still goes his way," says Ricco, who is the voice of the team’s statistical experts, Ben Baumer and Adam Fisher, who is also coordinator of amateur scouting.
Thanks Michkin
this is what i was hoping for in this thread.
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 11, 2009 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions
sounds like it'll be hard to determine what Ricco did or didn't approve of
since Omar overrides his advisors (which defeats the purpose of these advisors if you ask me).
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 11, 2009 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Now this is very informative.
‘Cause if it’s true that Omar went against the LOGICAL Decisions of his advisers constantly, then maybe Riccio wouldn’t be such a bad replacement after all(even though he did help to bring Frenchy here for Church).
Nice find, Michkin. :)
here's a quote from Ricco (2007)
“When we were at the winter meetings, when you meet team to team, I looked at our group,” Ricco recalls, “it’s an odd-looking group but we have pretty much have all the bases covered. I feel we match up front-office-wise as well as anybody.”
I feel like the offseason leading up to 2007 had a lot of questionable moves.. not sure i like that he was supportive of the front office during this period
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 11, 2009 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions
If you were employed under a boss you thought was making stupid decisions,
would you call him out and risk getting Fired?
I’m sure Riccio was well-aware how stupid Minaya was as the GM but didn’t dare say anything considering that the Wilpons hired him and could just as easily kick Riccio to the curb.
yeah but it doesnt seem like a guarded comment
like “i think this front office will put together a competitive team” saying they match up as well as anyone sounds like the sort of thing someone would say if they believed it. could be reading too much into it, i just hope i’m wrong.
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 11, 2009 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it's less related to the fear of getting fired and more to do with respecting hierarchy
After all 4 expressed their opinions, in the end of the day, the GM is responsible for making the decisions. Even if someone doesn’t agree, it was the GM final decision. One might not agree, but one is going to respect others views. Those articles indicate they don’t have a problem saying whatever they think in their meetings.
Omar would strike me as a good guy to have in Bernazard's role...
I don’t think I’d be against a little reshuffling.
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Aug 11, 2009 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with that 100 percent
he’s not charismatic enough to be the head of a front office nor does he seem to have enough business savvy. I think a general manager in any sport is best off being someone who can rally people. Matt Millen is a perfect example of a guy who knows his sport, played the sport etc. but was an absolutely incompetent general manager. Omar has a good eye for talent, that’s what he does well but his people skills are just horrific. Ricco seems like he’s more than qualified to run the business end of the organization and even if he doesn’t evaluate talent well.. he can put people around him who do.
President of the Ramses Barden Fan Club
by Hoyadestroya85 on Aug 11, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions
No Francoeur, Please
This is my first post on Amazin Avenue. Want to thank the folks running this great site, and all the posters who put up all kinds of interesting opinions and info.
Francouer has no business as a starting corner OF on a contending team. Not with his unimpressive power and dreadful OBP. Given how badly he hit in Atlanta in almost 1000 PAs in 2008 and 2009, if the Mets believe he has turned some kind of corner they’re going to be gambling on making a correct decision based on something like his most recent 60 games versus those 1000 miserable PAs.
Particularly since it looks like the budget is going to be tight for the next several years, spending several millions signing a guy like Frenchy whose UPSIDE is mediocrity, and whose downside is nightmarish, would be a blunder.
The 2010 Mets are going to need a lot of breaks in order to get into the playoffs. I’d much rather spend that money elsewhere and take a chance on Fernando putting it together. If he does, then you’ve gambled correctly. If he doesn’t, then the PAs you give him in 2010 may pay off towards better performance in 2011, when the Mets are more likely (given the good talent currently in AA in lower) to have a real shot at the playoffs.
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