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Around SBN: Raiders' GM Begins The Purge

Enough's Enough: Amazin' Avenue Needs Repaving

    There comes a time for every organization, when they have to start over and change there ways. It comes after years of injuries, inadequate trades, second rate signings, terrible draft selections, and blind faith. The franchise, nor there players want to admit it, but it must be done. After years of misfortune, Mets fans are in despair. Their moment has past, the players that once lead them a strike away from a World Series birth are getting old and past there primes. Amazin Avenue needs to be repaved. It's time for change

    Growing up in a household of Met fans, I know all about the hero’s of Mets history. Guys like Mookie Wilson, Sid Fernandez, Garry Carter, and Keith Hernandez are talked about with the highest praise. Those were the good ole days my father says often. Back then it wasn't about getting the biggest contract or hitting the most homeruns, it was about winning. They didn’t care if they were making twenty thousand, or twenty million, the guys were always going to hustle and play the right way.

    The team was stacked from top to bottom, there farm wasn't the laughing stock of baseball. The GM knew how to spend his money wisely, instead of wasting it all on 30 plus players past there primes and players who have no talent. There comes a time for every organization, when they have to start over and change there ways, the time is now for the Mets. 

    I know you don’t want to hear this, but the team stinks, no one is coming to the games, the franchise’s is losing money, and the economy is in the tank. Its time to rebuild. People aren’t going to spend a hundred dollars to buy the newest Mets jerseys, and companies surely aren’t going to buy up luxury boxes to see the team lose. The time has come for a new GM, one with a plan, who will rebuild the franchise from top to bottom. One which takes the Mets out of the free agent market for a few years, and saves them money. While also finding good young talent which will produce in the future.

    Whatever Minaya has been doing the past few years surely hasent worked, and I doubt the plan his Assistant GM who has been advising him since he became the Mets head honcho will be any different. Its about time they bring someone with a winning tradition who can both draft, spend, and develop talent.

    John Abbamondi (Cardinals Assistant Gm), or Gerry Hunsicker (Rays Assistant Vp) would do just that. All it takes is one trade, one trade of stars like Beltran or Santana who could net a big return. If the Orioles could land an all-star center fielder, front of the line rotation starter, and the teams closer for Erik Bedard, theres's little doubt in my mind the Mets could do better with either of the two.

    Just imagine a roster full of homegrown Mets. Players your organization groomed into stars, taking full flight as they lead your team to glory. It may take a few years, but the fruits of one rebuilding project could be worth more than anyone imagined. Just think if you had Pujols and Carpenter, or Longoria and Upton, a few years of sub .500 seasons is worth it right?

    There comes a time for every organization, when they have to start over and change there ways. It comes after years of injuries, inadequate trades, second rate signings, terrible selections, and blind faith to a losing club. Amazin' Avenue is getting old. The time for change is Now

Poll
Should The Mets Rebuild
Yes, they would be better off rebuilding
37 votes
Are you serious? Thill be contending for the championship next year with Wright, Reyes, and Beltran back
36 votes
Undecided
18 votes

91 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost was contributed by a member of the community and was not subject to any vetting or approval process. It does not necessarily reflect the opinions, reasoning skills, or attention to grammar and usage rules held by the editors of this site.

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Umm, in case you didn’t realize, we spent a number of years sub-.500 and coming out of those days are homegrown David Wright and Jose Reyes. We don’t need to do it again in order to win.

ain't had enough...

by BlackOps on Aug 21, 2009 9:38 PM EDT reply actions  

What does "rebuilding" mean?

What you’re saying about the state of the Mets is not exactly news — but you aren’t really explaining why it means they need to give up on 2010 to “rebuild.” Why should a team with one of the highest payrolls in baseball, with a core of superstars signed to multi-year contracts at reasonable rates, playing in a relatively weak division, need to wave a pre-emptive white flag? Rather than intentionally scuppering the next couple of years — peak years for Wright, Reyes, Beltran, and Santana — wouldn’t a well-run organization just do both at once, trying to win now and build for later?

by anonymous on Aug 21, 2009 9:59 PM EDT reply actions  

This

I think we’re somewhere in the middle. We’re not bad enough to need to rebuild (particularly with several prospects less than 2 years away), but as things are, we’re not quite good enough to contend. We can do both, but without proper use of our payroll, we’re just spinning our wheels.

by BobbyV_Incognito on Aug 21, 2009 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree.

Having said that I only think we are in a “dangerous middle ground” if the Wilpon’s want to cut payroll by 20mil like all the goofs in the MSM seem to think they do.

This team wasn’t built to be able to slash the payroll, so if they do they need to make a big trade, such as Beltran.

by Balagast on Aug 22, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

I disagree

We’ve had three superstars and one solid player surrounded by crap for four years, three of which we were in the playoffs and missed by one game twice. If Wright, Reyes, and Beltran are as good as they have been the last few years, we’re automatically contenders. If we sign Holliday, we have the four man group in the majors. Whether or ot we make the playoffs is dependent of the crappy role players we have actually having better years than they should.

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Aug 22, 2009 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know where you heard that nobody is coming to the games, but at 93.3% of their tickets sold their 4th in the majors.

I don’t have any figures to back this up, but I’d be shocked to hear that the franchise is losing money. They may not make as much as Wilpon would like, but they’re making plenty. It’s also funny that the guys you suggest trading both have full no-trade clauses. The fact that the Mariners traded their farm for Bedard doesn’t mean that every other team in baseball acts as foolishly, regardless of what Fatcessa may lead you to believe.

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Stephen Schmidt on Aug 21, 2009 10:45 PM EDT reply actions  

Sales are suppose to take a big hit next season

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/27/sports/baseball/27tickets.html?_r=1&ref=sports

"To be a leader, you have to make people want to follow you, and nobody wants to follow someone who doesn't know where he is going."Joe Namath

by Civardi on Aug 21, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Most likely.

Between the crappy economy, and the poor showing we’ve had this season, I expect a lot of people will decide not to renew their season tickets, or go fewer games. Have you guys checked StubHub lately? There’s tons of tickets to be had at huge discounts.

by BobbyV_Incognito on Aug 21, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Reyes and Wright is already better than

Longoria and Upton and perhaps Pujols and Carpenter.

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Aug 21, 2009 10:51 PM EDT reply actions  

Carpenter isn't home grown in St. Louis either.

He came up with the Jays, and was signed as a free agent in 2003.

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Stephen Schmidt on Aug 21, 2009 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was gonna add that but was too lazy

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Aug 21, 2009 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Say Pujols and Wainwright

and you have a duo that is probably better than Reyes/Wright. Upton/Longo is not.

by supermets on Aug 21, 2009 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

No

Reyes is about a 5.5 WAR player and wright is about a 6.5 WAR player on average. That’s 12 WAR.
Wainwright is a 3.5 WAR player and Pujols is an 8 WAR player. That’s 11.5 WAR

Reyes and Wright has to be the best young homegrown talent in the Majors.

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Aug 22, 2009 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

A difference of .5 WAR isn't significant, especially given the error bars of UZR and other things

Also, Wainwright is significantly better than 3.5 WAR. ZIPS has him at a 3.35 FIP going forward, which is about 5 WAR per 200 innings.

Still the point stands. Reyes, Beltran, Wright, Santana and Pelfrey are a very good core to build around, and the Mets have enough salary to be able to build a good team around them, even with a “messy” roster. I would advocate trading away K-Rod, who is probably not worth his contract, and would probably fetch a lot in a deal.

Thanks

by vivaelpujols on Aug 22, 2009 6:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

yeah trading BB-Rod would be good

but it won’t happen because the GM who does it will have his head called on by the MSM, and MSM Mets fans.

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Aug 22, 2009 7:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

In all seriousness

How valid was this year’s projected WAR for any of these players. I haven’t the slightest inkling on how some of these well thought out but obscure (to me) stats are generated and applied.

Did projected WAR hit its mark or is this something I have to wait for till the season is complete?

" GIVE ME A BASEBALL GAME, A HOT DOG AND SOMEONE WHO IS NOT SITTING IN FRONT OF ME WITH A COWBOY HAT ON, AND I'M A HAPPY GUY. "

by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Aug 25, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was just looking at these players last few years and took a rough average

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Aug 25, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Also what does "Thill" mean?

just ball busting

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Aug 21, 2009 11:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Damn

After reading the title, I was excited for a thorough takedown of Amazin’ Avenue (the blog).

by James Kannengieser on Aug 22, 2009 2:40 AM EDT reply actions  

Seriously

What a tease.

King of the bling come to lay down the evidence//Not George Bush, L-Millz be da president

by Sam Page on Aug 22, 2009 3:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

I thought the same

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Aug 22, 2009 5:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

that's what I thought too

I’ve heard all of this before

"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage

by blueandorange4life on Aug 22, 2009 8:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Same.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Aug 22, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

I thought some Francouer-tolerator had enough

and was trying to disband the World HQ of Frenchy-hate.

Viva Francouer’s Avenue!

"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it on the scoreboard?"

by hotspur on Aug 22, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I seventh this comment

" GIVE ME A BASEBALL GAME, A HOT DOG AND SOMEONE WHO IS NOT SITTING IN FRONT OF ME WITH A COWBOY HAT ON, AND I'M A HAPPY GUY. "

by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Aug 25, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Rebuilding

I don’t think of it as rebuilding so much as realistically evaluating this team’s chances of winning the WS in 2010.

If you think the team is “one player away”, then yeah, it makes sense to maybe overpay for an older player, or overpay for the best FA on the market, or overpay for that one missing cog.

On the other hand, if you have holes all over your roster (like the Mets do), then I think it’s time to take a step back and try to make smart long term moves this off-season.

It’s like the NFL draft, where some teams draft for need, like they need a RB, and other teams take “the best player available”.

I think the Mets are in the position where instead of reaching for 1-2 big budget “big splash” signings, they need to do better at accumulating boring but solid value players.

Otherwise we keep ending up being paper champions in February, with Omar smiling with “Budget Busting Free Agent Du Jour” holding up a Met jersey at a press conference, then sitting home in October wondering what went wrong.

We desperately need some smart value contracts.

by Mex_17 on Aug 22, 2009 11:33 AM EDT reply actions  

For teams like the Marlins or Pirates, retooling is not an option.

Those teams wouldn’t be able to afford to add top flight talent via free agency, they have to take risks and hope to acquire cost controlled superstars. The Mets have the option of adding top notch talent via free agency, so they really don’t have to take risks by trading their best players for prospects. The team really dosen’t need to panic and move their best players, they are several complimentarypieces away from being very good.

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Stephen Schmidt on Aug 22, 2009 1:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Question

Who is the “front of the line rotation starter” the O’s got in that deal?

The trade was

Erik Bedard for for Chris Tillman (minors), Tony Butler (minors), Adam Jones, Kameron Mickolio and George Sherrill.

"Solo homers usually come with no one on base." -Ralph Kiner

by metsguy234 on Aug 22, 2009 1:07 PM EDT reply actions  

Tillman

He’s only made five starts in the bigs but he does project as a frontline SP. He’s 21 and has been successful at every level of the minors. He’ still a couple of years from his ceiling but he should be a fine pitcher.

by Zwill on Aug 22, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

As well as that trade has worked out for the O's,

it seems that just as often the buyers in those types of deals end up with nothing to show for the trade. It’s always a gamble.

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Stephen Schmidt on Aug 22, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

What are you talking about?

Amazin’ Avenue has had a great year. The veterans have been as good as ever. Also, I hate to seem cocky, but I think I’m in the running for Rookie of the Year. There are a lot of good, young posters here though.

"I was so frustrated [Saturday], I [could have said] anything," ~Oliver Perez

by Lance Johnson on Aug 22, 2009 8:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Rookie of the Year?

My money’s on centerpede1o1. Not the most prolific poster, but he made quite an impact.

by BobbyV_Incognito on Aug 22, 2009 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

D'oh

I could have at least spelled his name right.

by BobbyV_Incognito on Aug 22, 2009 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually

I think that was fairly appropriate :D

"I was so frustrated [Saturday], I [could have said] anything," ~Oliver Perez

by Lance Johnson on Aug 22, 2009 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ha

I read some of the comments of his. Was the JJ what a putz the last thing he commented, or is there more?

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Aug 23, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think he just stopped posting.

There’s been tons of guys like that this season. They register, make a couple of FanPosts/FanShots, and disappear into the ether. I blame it on the SBN agreement with Yahoo.

by BobbyV_Incognito on Aug 23, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just wish there was a waiting period of more than 24 hours before you could publish FanPosts or FanShots after joining.

24 hours is fine for comments, I wouldn’t change that. It would certainly cut back on the number of angry vents we see. We don’t have it as bad as some though, Bucs Dugout was getting tons of them around the deadline.

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Stephen Schmidt on Aug 23, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

hard to tell the difference, from the outside

There really ought to be some kind of external exposure for the moderation decisions, or a permanent open thread or something — admins can see who’s banned, but no one else can.

by anonymous on Aug 26, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Does Lou get Comeback Poster of the year?

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Aug 22, 2009 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who gets MVP?

Cy Young? Manager of the Year?

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Aug 23, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

I humbly nominate myself for

the Heart and Hustle Award.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Aug 23, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think we all get the Grission Award

for putting up with this BS

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Aug 23, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

We've got my vote!

" GIVE ME A BASEBALL GAME, A HOT DOG AND SOMEONE WHO IS NOT SITTING IN FRONT OF ME WITH A COWBOY HAT ON, AND I'M A HAPPY GUY. "

by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Aug 26, 2009 7:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

David Ecktein was the original winner

and Craig Biggio won it twice. Are you sure it’s not a joke, put up by FJM?

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Aug 23, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd think it was a joke

but if it were, Grady Sizemore’s too talented to win it.

by BobbyV_Incognito on Aug 23, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

its not

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Aug 24, 2009 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

If we were really going to rebuild

it would start with trading Reyes and Wright. They, Santana and maybe Beltran are the only players we could deal for the kind of direction-changing flotilla of prospects (4-for-1 or 5-for-1 deals) you’re talking about.

I’m too emotionally involved with Reyes and Wright to do that, plus NY fans have the patience of a gnat and the team can’t really get away with building from the ground up and taking 4 years to be completely sound.

You can’t have an insurance fire when you’re not insured. We’re better off keeping the core and spending our way out of it. If the scouts and the GM make good enough assessments, we are probably not that far away from being a playoff contender, seeing as .540 makes you a September contender.

by Kepler on Aug 24, 2009 11:54 PM EDT reply actions  

Oh man!

I loved your first sentence. Simply because of the response it “should” have generated. Can you imagine? Wright and Reyes, the peanut butter and jelly of the Mets leaving? It would be a great sports story.

" THE METS 2009 SEASON HAS BEEN ONE BIG CAKE FART."

by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Aug 26, 2009 8:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

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