Crippled Applesauce - Santana to miss start, Francoeur torn thumb, Wagner vetoes trade
by Joe Budd on Aug 25, 2009 8:01 AM EDT
in Applesauce
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So, I asked what would be the weirdest thing that could happen in yesterday's game and I didn't expect a dropped Chase Utley pop-up resulting in a trip around the bases. The Mets lost badly, but I still took some pleasure in that. By the way, I thought Ryan Howard hit a pop-up in the first inning. He is strong.
Meet the Mets
Remember there was a time at the beginning of the season where it looked like Johan Santana was going to miss significant time with injury? Fast forward to now, a time where almost every Met starter in the Opening day lineup is out and Johan (along with Rodriguez, Castillo, and Schneider) has been one of the only guys who had been able to avoid getting hurt. Well, it's down to three now. Santana has been scratched from tonight's start and may have surgery on his elbow.
Content with his season .299 OBP, Jeff Francoeur went out and tore his thumb ligament so that he can rest on his laurels. He is day to day.
Billy Wagner has exercised his no-trade clause and vetoed a trade to Boston. He had asked the Red Sox to decline arbitration so that he would be more valuable on the free agent market.
Metsradamus compares the 2009 season to a horror film.
Around the NL East
Eric Bruntlett will have his jersey in the Hall of Fame after Sunday's unassisted triple play. Eric Bruntlett.
The Nationals lost 7-1 to the Brewers after a catastrophic 6th inning.
Washington's ownership and management are demonstarting an incredible level of openness and accommodation towards the team's fan bloggers. In their defense, the Mets wind up buying and paying the salary of their bloggers.
Nick Johnson's injury is creating a little roster headache for Florida, leaving them a man short on the bench.
Around MLB
Maybe I was too quick to rule the Peavy trade a "snake-eyes". Chicago is saying he could pitch Saturday for the White Sox.
Jered Weaver gets knocked around on Nick Adenhart's birthday.
Ryan Spilborghs hit a walkoff 14th inning grand slam with the Rockies down 4-1. It's starting to look like 2007 again.
Adrian Beltre is still unsure whether he will be wearing a cup in the future, even after he has a swollen right testicle.
Mike Hampton's hitting has been worth .5 WAR alone.
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Rick Peterson...
….maybe knew what he was talking about?
by EastFallowfield on Aug 25, 2009 8:08 AM EDT reply actions
Maybe it's time to get Livan back
to replace Johan
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
So let me get this straight
Per Jerry, Johan hasn’t been throwing in between starts for weeks now? Seriously? We kept running him out there in this lost season when he was hurt to the point that he couldn’t do his throwing between starts?
I want everyone involved in that decision fired who could have stopped it but didn’t. That is beyond dumb.
We've reached threshold on retarded decisions by one team
Gee, our most important surviving player is having back trouble, we have a .0000000000001% chance of making the playoffs, let’s run him out there every five days and see if we can really ruin him.
by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Aug 25, 2009 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Ha!
The ignorance knows no bounds. And you just know that was motivated by ticket sales in some way.
I’m not even a guy that says “FIRE EVERYONE!” at the drop of a hat when something goes wrong. But the recklessness and retarded logic that went behind the decision to keep pitching Johan these past few weeks through injury is insane.
by DannyMetsGeek on Aug 25, 2009 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions
its completly stupid
YOu see the Yankees limiting Joba’s inning and they are in a playoff race
we do no such thing with Johan when we’re in the Bryce Harper Sweepstakes
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Aug 25, 2009 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
is something else going on?
everyone knew he was hurt, even though the team kept it a secret. It is absolute insanity to do something like this. And they have been downplaying every injury it seems. reyes, beltran (last year with church’s concussion, but i think that’s another story). Is it trying to keep fans coming to Citi’s inaugural season? The Wilpons built towards this moment for years, then madoff happens and this season.
Well, enough mindless speculation. whatever the reasoning, this was beyond moronic. santana seems like a guy who likes to touch it out but you have to overrule him.
BTW, I have some Johan Santana-endorsed linament. Some kinda topical heat capsicum based rubdown oil. Worked on my back but better tell johan that ain’t enough.
J.R. Watkins
… would not approve.
by LeiterMilnerFasterStronger on Aug 25, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
that's it!
And I can’t spell “liniment” either.
Well this is absolutely par for the course
Season ticket holders should get a partial refund OR some type of compensation OR a discount on next seasons tickets. Bad enough they’ve had to endure the current lineup for months, and now no Johan? I guess there was no; “Buyer beware clause” on the back of those season tickets.
“NICKELBACK!” Has there ever been such a lousy season? (Other than ’62).
" GIVE ME A BASEBALL GAME, A HOT DOG AND SOMEONE WHO IS NOT SITTING IN FRONT OF ME WITH A COWBOY HAT ON, AND I'M A HAPPY GUY. "
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Aug 25, 2009 8:45 AM EDT reply actions
this is really sad
but at least we can keep billy
Self-proclaimed president of the Pat White and Brian Hartline fan club.
but u know wat, this prooves that met fans are the greatest fans ever
we’ve had to endure this shit for years, yet we come out in full force every season anyway!
Self-proclaimed president of the Pat White and Brian Hartline fan club.
We're...
either the greatest or dumbest. But definitely masochists.
by DannyMetsGeek on Aug 25, 2009 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions
There's Some Fans in Chicago...
….who might point out that they’ve had it worse.
by EastFallowfield on Aug 25, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
What concerns me about Wagner
is that he seems to be close to Fred Wilpon, as he was “just coming back for Fred.” They couldn’t possibly not offer him arbitration as a personal favor, right?
+1
That’s how it will be framed. But really, the Wilpons won’t want to pay the freight for two additional early round draft picks. So they’ll win both ways.
And we’ll lose every way, as per usual.
by DannyMetsGeek on Aug 25, 2009 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions
do we ever win?
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Aug 25, 2009 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
It's too bad the Wilpons own 100%
if there were minority stakeholders, they could rise up against such obvious negligence.
Maybe the City or the construction bond-holders can file a suit. At this point, it’s got to be approaching the line that separates mere foolishness from actual incompetence.
Maybe they are trying to devalue the team for some financial trickery like in the Hudsucker Proxy.
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it on the scoreboard?"
some financial trickery like in the Hudsucker Proxy
Who’s the idiot they get to drive the company into the ground? Oh, wait…
by WhyBillsWhy on Aug 25, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed that's my concern
It seems like if he vetoed the trade because he couldn’t get a guarantee from the Red Sox then he must not be expecting us to offer arbitration.
i'm afraid they'll just give wags to the red sox now
i’m sure taking $3.5 million off the price tag of this crap season will look good to the FO.
by englishgrey on Aug 25, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
We can't
Apparently Wagner’s NTC doesn’t allow for us to just hand over his rights either. Otherwise that is probably what would have happened to save $$$
by DannyMetsGeek on Aug 25, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
ah, good to know
so now i can worry about the FO not offering arbitration to wagner come season’s end.
by englishgrey on Aug 25, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah about that...
“They’re not going to pay $8 million to have me set up Frankie and they know that I wouldn’t be satisfied,” Wagner said. “They’ve expressed to me that they want what’s best for me and they would like to help me out. They have a closer. They’d like to help me reach that goal. We just have to see if that comes to pass.”
Looks like they have made Billy a promise.
by DannyMetsGeek on Aug 25, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
hopefully
he just means that the mets have told him they won’t pick up his option.
if he can finish out the season strong, i don’t think his type-A status will really hamper his attractiveness to teams that need a closer. he’s not juan cruz.
by englishgrey on Aug 25, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
True
Let’s hope it’s that. Billy seems savvy enough to understand that it’s logical for us to offer him arbitration.
by DannyMetsGeek on Aug 25, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
WHO CARES
This organization needs to stop caring about what everyone thinks of them and just do what’s best for them!! It’s a business, and while it’s a shame that Wagner will be a less attractive free agent if offered arb, it’s a freaking business! A 38 year old relief pitcher’s feelings cannot be considered when making this decision.
If they really dont offer him arbitration as a personal favor, it might just be the last thing that happens before I jump ship forever.
Check out my Mets blog: http://metsmosh.blogspot.com/
Part of the Shore Sports Report blog network, Fox Sports Radio 1310 New Jersey
Exactly
It’s totally absurd. This organization is a mess and now they’re going to guarantee they get NOTHING for Wagner. It’s total BS.
by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Aug 25, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
The Braves did take Glavine back when he was a type A.
If a teams first round pick is protected I can see them picking up Billy.
How many teams with protected first rounders
Are going to be in a position where it makes sense to invest as much as Billy will likely ask for and need a closer?
Schneider
He didn’t manage to avoid getting hurt…didn’t he start the season on the DL for a really long time?
Sorry, all I have is nit-picking. The team has driven me into alcoholism and obsessive-compulsive disorder.
by pologroundling on Aug 25, 2009 10:52 AM EDT reply actions
Come on out to Citi Field to see
Luis Castillo!
by James Kannengieser on Aug 25, 2009 11:03 AM EDT reply actions
And Anderson Hernandez!
He’s the only guy in the starting line up who was on the 2006 team! The Mets should advertise that.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
haha
i’m laughing, but i want to cry. that is so sad.
by englishgrey on Aug 25, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
It's the one thing
Omar can point to. His wOBA is actually now higher than Hudson’s. His fielding, of course, is a different story, but Hudson hasn’t been very good himself.
Not usually pessimistic
But I don’t see a scenario where this team significantly improves in the next couple of seasons. Outside of Santana and Pelfrey, where is the pitching? And of course the former is now an injury concern and the latter is still a bit iffy. Ollie is a mess and Maine is probably done. We might get something out of Niese, but who knows about him. The free agent market this season isn’t great, and even then there’s no guarantee we’d grab someone. We’re not likely to pull off a trade, so we’re left with a circumspect at best staff for the foreseeable future.
Even if the big three come back healthy and productive and somehow we grab some other offensive firepower, I don’t think the Mets are going to be seriously in the hunt for a word title anytime soon.
The Big Three
A healthy and productive Big Three alone make us legitimate title contenders. Reyes, Beltran and Wright are about 20 win players combined when they are right. Throw a healthy Santana on top of that and it’s hard to win less then 85-90 games when four players can combine to be that valuable. I definitely agree that we need one more stick in there to supplement those guys. And we have a lot of holes.
But our superstars cover up those holes when they are healthy and productive.
My biggest fear is that Reyes and Beltran will not be healthy and productive, making my argument moot.
by DannyMetsGeek on Aug 25, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Niese
I think we know a lot about him, and presumably his hammy heals fine. Hopefully mejia can take a starters load eventually and Holt can get straightened out. But i suppose that is still a buncha youngsters.
Redding/Hernandez/Garcia was about the worst possible back-end plan going.
Mejia
We can only take him up to about 120 innings next year. Maybe 130. I don’t think he’s a viable option until 2011 because of that. We were just working off a really small base of innings in 2008.
by DannyMetsGeek on Aug 25, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I think the problem is
You have Santana, and then a combination of question marks mid/backend of the rotation guys. Which isn’t really something we want to go into the season with hoping to contend is it?
There's really no scenario
Where we go into the season less top heavy and susceptible to bad luck then we were going into this season.
I hope Bruntlett's Hall of Fame display
notes that he was responsible for the two runners on and includes Charlie’s comment on the inning:
“picked a good time to catch one, didn’t he?”
That’s good stuff.
Well, there's always next year.
Eh, who am I kidding? There’s always the 2012 season. Wright and Reyes will still be in their prime.
Somehow, a chain of events unfolded that put Steve Phillips in a professional broadcast booth Sunday night so he could rip Carlos Beltran. Try to explain that in any other terms.
by Greenpoint Ian on Aug 25, 2009 11:30 AM EDT reply actions
i wonder if jose reyes will even be on the team then
i feel like the media will pressure the mets into letting him walk as a free agent
by englishgrey on Aug 25, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
if so
This team deserves the title drought it will get. Any team that lets the local sports media dictate their decisions is pathetic, and if Wilpon does that, he’ll die without seeing another title.
Remember Boston trading Nomar at the trade deadline in 2004? That took balls, and shows how good of an organization the Red Sox are. The Mets are abject amateurs.
Somehow, a chain of events unfolded that put Steve Phillips in a professional broadcast booth Sunday night so he could rip Carlos Beltran. Try to explain that in any other terms.
by Greenpoint Ian on Aug 25, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Frenchy's injury could turn out to be a fantastic thing
It might be the thing that forces him to learn some pitch recognition:
“He hopes to do as Cora did, wear a protective ring on his thumb when he bats and deal with the pain whenever he swings — swings and misses hurt more than contact.”
Just heard on WFAN..
John Heyman reports that Wagner is behind closed door with Mets’ front office who are trying to convince him to go to Boston.
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