Stuck with Wilpons Applesauce - No sale imminent, thrown out at home, Tejada accusations, YES lawsuit
by Joe Budd on Aug 31, 2009 8:10 AM EDT
in Applesauce
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Even when something good happens to this team (10 Ks), there is absolutely nothing to look for next year. Figueroa is 35 and we've seen everything there is to know about him. Games will start getting interesting again as soon as Thole makes an appearance.
Meet the Mets
A small glimmer of hope appeared on the horizon late last week as FoxBusiness.com reported that the Wilpons' financial losses from Bernie Madoff were so severe that they would be forced to sell the Mets. The Wilpons issued a denial.
This year just isn't as much fun for the Phillies without the Mets choking. Sorry guys.
The Mets have had 16 runners thrown out at home this season. The Post blames Razor Shines.
New York will platoon Josh Thole when he is promoted September 6th. The Mets want to keep their minor leaguers down for a while to make up for the lack of depth.
Around the NL East
Over the weekend, Cliff Lee earned his first loss as a Phillie. Philadelphia still took two of three from Atlanta.
The NL Rookie of the Year contest is looking like a battle between two NL East aces.
The Nationals traded second baseman Ronnie Belliard to the Dodgers for two minor leaguers.
Florida optioned pitcher Chris Volstad to triple-A. Volstad failed to get out of the 5th inning in four of his five August starts.
Tim Hudson's long awaited return has been pushed back slightly due to roster concerns surrounding Nate McLouth.
Around MLB
As usual, Mike Hampton is going to have season-ending surgery.
Former MSG network president Bob Gutkowski is suing George Steinbrenner over the YES Network idea.
Luis Gonzalez officially retired last week and became a member of the Diamondbacks' front office.
The LA Times is speculating that Chone Figgins is packing his bags for a free agent payday.
Jake Peavy's latest rehab start was a disaster, knocking him off his return schedule.
Scott Kazmir will make his Angel debut on Wednesday against the Mariners and Felix Hernandez.
Zack Greinke threw a one-hitter.
Miguel Tejada is accused of tipping pitches while on Oakland. There's an interesting Dominican Republic backstory here as well that Tejada is merely the figurehead for.
This is now my favorite story of the day.
Eric Young Jr. is trying to follow his father's footsteps.
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This has probably already been posted somewhere on here
but I haven’t been lurking since Thursday so here it is.
Another Philly writer lamenting about the Mets predicament
geez, get over yourselves. There is no rivalry. It is a stupid media invention to drive ratings. They tried to make one but it failed. The Mets will not be a factor next year or the year after that, especially with Manuel in Minaya still in charge. That is just a nexus of baseball stupidity that is impossible to escape. As far as why Philly fans can’t enjoy this season unless we “collapse” then I don’t know what to say. I guess they aren’t truly baseball fans but simply anti-NY fans.
by aparkermarshall on Aug 31, 2009 9:16 AM EDT reply actions
I can't imagine it ever becoming an important rivalry.
The Mets and Phillies were irrelevant to each other for 45 years. We had major rivalries with the Dodgers and Giants, the Cubs, the Pirates, the Cardinals and the Braves, with the Nosferatu of the Yankees and their faded Boston drop-shadow looming in the background, but the Phillies register on the Mets’ rivalry scale about as much as Les Expos.
Maybe if the teams competed head to head for years… but even then, look at how the Braves have descended so quickly back into the inconsequential haze of their mediocrity. To be rivals means to hate even when one or both teams is terrible (like now). Neither team’s fans really hold up their end — this is not a rivalry that will last.
I disagree with you on the first part.
I personally find it to be not exactly a rivalry per se, but absolutely a hatred and loathing that I have for Philly.
And if we get depth, there’s no reason why we can’t be a factor as soon as next year, especially considering our kick ass core.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
inside look
What a dumb article that was. I know tons of Philadelphia sports fans and I really, really don’t think anyone is upset that the Mets are so far out of the race. The only people who wish the Mets were closer are sportswriters who don’t have a dog in the hunt, so to speak, and want that STORYLINE to write about. The one they’ve been cultivating for the past three seasons, and which isn’t bearing fruit right now.
I’m just glad they’re eight games up right now, and I don’t care who’s in second place.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
"The Mets will not be a factor next year or the year after that"
-10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
No offense
unfortunately its likely true no matter how hard it is to hear
they’ve really messed things up and its gonna take time to fix. I’m ready to settle in a for another long stretch of fail. I’m not being pessimistic here, just realistic. The pieces aren’t in place, and the likelihood of them getting what they need all at once are pretty low.. We dont know how a number of our big name players will respond to surgery. We had 3 years where we should have made playoffs (once we even did!), i think it’ll take a few years to build up for another run like that. I’ll keep hoping i’m wrong, but im prepared to face the possibility im right.
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 31, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree too.
I’ll still watch, root, and hope, but realistically we’re not exactly world beaters.
The problem is rather than taking the time to try and fix things correctly
they’ll attempt to scrap together a team with a few cheap band aids and possibly farm emptying trades.
yup
this is why i wish everyone (especially the Mets FO, but thats too much to ask) would avoid the “everything is gonna be ok next year” mentality. Its not, get over it and do what needs to be done to get this team consistently competitive again.
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 31, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Well with a core like we have
it would take extra bad luck+ fail to not be competitive. The problem is there’s no fix we could make in this off-season to make us less susceptible to bad luck, essentially being screwed if one or more of the big four goes down. And with our limited resources more than likely at most we could be as good as we were going into this year with just as many question marks and holes.
competitive, maybe but im not even totally convinced of that... a playoff caliber team no
we could have as many as 4 starting pitchers next year coming off of surgeries, with no idea how this will impact their control, velocity, or longevity through the season. our closer has shown he is vulnerable to lapses in control. Even before injuries this pitching staff only made it through 6 innings on an infrequent basis. Our catchers are terrible, plain and simple, not putting up numbers anywhere near what we’ve gotten out of those spots in past years. Reyes, who depends solely on his speed is coming back from a leg injury which seems likely to re-aggravate given how many times he’s tried to come back and re-tweaked it, beltran will likely lose some mobility as a result of his surgery. We need a power hitting first baseman but the market for those is pretty weak, and the few out there are injury prone (which got us into this mess to start with). On top of this the FO has no idea how to handle our prospects, so the likelihood of having one come up and help the team don’t seem that high to me. Francoeur is putting up good numbers, but if his babip and first pitch contact numbers come back to earth he’s going to look far less appealing even with his good arm in RF. I don’t think we can even say we are likely to be as good as we were coming into this year, we have a similar roster but its a very different team nonetheless. I think this “core” we have is great, don’t get me wrong, but they’ve all lost a step this year, and we dont know which direction they’ll move next year. Since we depend on all of them so heavily, if any of them cant perform at their previous levels its a huge problem for the whole team.
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 31, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Enough with the myth
That Reyes is all about speed. Reyes is an .800+ OPS shortstop who plays the position well and adds about a 1.5 wins with his baserunning. Everything except baserunning makes Jose a 4.5 win player at least.
Nothing can get by him; especially in a small room: Mike Francessa
by GenJackRipper on Aug 31, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
i'm not saying he's all speed
im saying I wouldnt be surprised to see a decrease in his productivity based on his injury, plus a potential increase in injury risk. I’m simply saying we cant assume he will be the same player he was before the injury, thats not to say he’s not still a good player. But he has to be treated as an unknown to some extent.
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 31, 2009 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Thing is...
they COULD easily improve and become contenders as soon as next year…but most likely, they won’t/
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
None taken
Its just a personal opinion I have based upon my history with the franchise. There are some very troubling days ahead for this team considering how much damage Madoff caused to the Wilpons. I don’t know what the exact amounts are but it is still quite substantial. I don’t mind one bit if we go to a lower payroll, I just don’t think Minaya or the Mets front office are intelligent enough to pull it off. They seem like they are openly hostile to advanced statistical analysis and are extremely old school guys. We see the evidence of it on Amazin Avenue every day. Just look at the plan to platoon Josh Thole, pure idiocy.
As for our “rivalry” with the Phillies, its not something that will have legs. We have been horrible the last three years, they have a world series title. Its not much of a rivalry if one team loses all the time. I cant really say anything about the Phillies because they won. Do they have annoying players on their team? Yes they do. Do I hate the Phillies? Yes, but not anymore than I hate the Marlins, Braves and Nationals.
by aparkermarshall on Aug 31, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Horrible for the last 3 years is a little harsh
Simply not good enough, and horrible in September would be more accurate for 07-08. They were only 2 games worse than Philly last year, and you could make a case the ’08 team gets it done with even a slightly below avg. pen as opposed to an abysmal one. The problem is of course, they are getting worse by the year, the “horrible” could be still to come.
Pretty funny
that now their concern is that the sucky minor league teams are shorthanded. Who cares about the major league team that’s shorthanded.
well at least SOMEBODY affiliated with this teams should enjoy the baseball they get to watch
and its sure as hell not going to be with the major league team.
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 31, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Brooklyn are first in their division with a 43-25 record
See a Met pennant race! KeySpan Park. 6 games left before the playoffs. Only 1.5 games ahead of their rivals, the Staten Island Yankees.
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Aug 31, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
thats something to get excited about at least
lets go Cyclones
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 31, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I want WFAN coverage
Or SNY
more interesting than the Mets
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Aug 31, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Brooklyn ain't interesting
It’s all ringers and guys way behind on the age/level curve on whom the FO has given up. The closest thing to a prospect this year in Brooklyn is Valdespin.
Nothing can get by him; especially in a small room: Mike Francessa
by GenJackRipper on Aug 31, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
The line of thinking probably is, if they call up Thole
early by 5 days, it’ll cause of domino effect meaning they’ll have to shuffle every roster calling up a catcher from A+ to AA, A to A+, RK to A, etc. So, I agree that 5 extra days of Thole platooning rather than playing in the minors is not worth the pain in the ass of moving 5+ players around. However, I don’t excuse the Mets for having this problem in the first place, a normal team would have a journeyman catcher that can be moved to AA with causing such a disturbance.
yeah, the FO sucks
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Aug 31, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
he's the only player we have with lightning powers
by KeithsMoustache on Aug 31, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I would buy an Omir Santos jersey
if he killed Chase Utley and Jimmy Rollins with his lightning powers.
You mean like Omir Santos?
Nothing can get by him; especially in a small room: Mike Francessa
by GenJackRipper on Aug 31, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
From the Post article about Razor:
Carlos Beltran took another step in his comeback bid Saturday in Port St. Lucie by running the bases for the first time since going on the disabled list June 22 with a bone bruise in his right knee.
Beltran still has a significant hurdle to clear sometime in the next week — an MRI exam. That exam must show the Mets that the bone bruise has decreased significantly before they will allow him to play the final month of the season.
On the plus side, team officials say Beltran ran the bases without pain over the weekend.
Oh god, why? What possible reason is there to push Beltran to get back for a meaningless month of games?
to sell tickets that is my only guess
"Let's go to first base, and then just go straight through the other ones. After that, we can go to the pitchers mound. I have no idea what that means, but it sounds hot."
by Mo Vaugh's fitness trainer on Aug 31, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
he should play for th Cyclones
in their playoff push
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Aug 31, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Even if they want to follow through
on this misguided comeback plan, shouldn’t the MRI have been done before he did any running?
Been thinking about
our position players coming back and how everyone here is so upset about it.
For the most part I agree… They should not rush anything.
However it may be counter-productive for them to not play if they are ready.
baseball players are headcases for the most part, and it would prob do both beltran and wright some good to prove to themselves they can still play before the long off season.
I'd rather their first competition be when it matters again.
If anything’s more dispiriting than being injured, it’s playing on a team in front of fans being broadcast by announcers being fed by hot dog vendors who will pass toll collectors on the way home to wives ALL of whom wish they were somewhere… anywhere… else.
i would think
being healthy enough to play, but not… even though your team is struggling to win games and field a competitive team would kill a ballplayer.
Feature Article on CNNSI.com
about the Mets. Not too groundbreaking, just reviewing that they are a team of stars and scrubs: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/tim_marchman/08/30/mets.cubs/index.html?eref=T1
read that this morning
it was so venomous towards players that really aren’t part of the overall problems. he cites castillo as being terrible in the same breath as saying he gets on base at a .400 clip? he picks on murphy and francouer for no real reason.
the heart of the problems lie with ownership and omar…why pick on players who are just doing their job, and in the case of castillo doing their job better than expected.
"he picks on murphy and francoeur for no real reason"
Francoeur is bad at baseball. Murphy has had a terrible season.
by JoshNY on Aug 31, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
well my point was
that its not the players faults that they’re put in the positions they were put in. the blame should fall on the front office. these are not players who are living down to expectations, they’re players that are either doing better than we thought or doing pretty much what they usually do.
"Barely useful even when getting on base more than 40 percent of the time..."
… doesn’t mean that OBP is useless. It means that DESPITE the OBP, he’s barely worth running out there at second.
Considering the defensive regression, declining speed, loss of what little power he had, and nagging injuries… Marchman’s sorta right. (1.6 WAR on the year… a decent-sized chunk of which comes from the position he plays.)
by LeiterMilnerFasterStronger on Aug 31, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Barely useful
is the highest compliment any player on the 2009 Mets circa late August can receive. There is no player on this team who is above average except Pelfrey.
Nothing can get by him; especially in a small room: Mike Francessa
by GenJackRipper on Aug 31, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Joe that denial of problems for the Wilpons came from December
The stories about financial problems come from this week. Things can change greatly in 8 months.
Jerry and Omar assclowns for life
by Ghost of seven in a row on Aug 31, 2009 3:37 PM EDT reply actions
You're right
Result of a blind google search. I knew I read something somewhere. Here’s the latest denial.
Thanks Joe
Jerry and Omar assclowns for life
by Ghost of seven in a row on Aug 31, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
If nothing else
At least we didn’t just re-up Dayton Moore through 2014. I can’t imagine what in the hell spurred that decision from KC.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Aug 31, 2009 5:22 PM EDT reply actions
The Kansas City Royals
The only team more poorly run than the Mets in all of Baseball. (Pirates are iffy.)
Nothing can get by him; especially in a small room: Mike Francessa
by GenJackRipper on Aug 31, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think the Pirates are iffy
I think they’re decidedly run better than us. By a pretty decent margin, their owner at least hired a competent gm and lets him do his job without interference. I’d say considering how awful they were their current front office has done wonders with the talent its been able to acquire.
They have L-Millz, we don't
Game, set., match.
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but Jerry abuses the privilege.
For the fire sale they had
they could have gotten decidedly better talent. They practically gave away Nate McClouth. And they’ve been pretty terrible for a long time. Their system, even after housecleaning, is promising, though unspectacular. Fairly similar to ours. Maybe slightly better.
The funny thing about Littlefield is that everything you hear about how poorly he ran the Pirates reminds me of what Omar does: i.e. not investing in the draft and focusing on safe polished college players.
Nothing can get by him; especially in a small room: Mike Francessa
by GenJackRipper on Sep 1, 2009 5:54 AM EDT up reply actions
I disagree
Beyond the Boxscore did an analyze of their trades and came up with them at worse breaking even. I think it just looks like they didn’t get as much back because they sold high/bought low on a lot of guys, like Sanchez & McClouth/ L-Millz and Clement.
Also as far as McClouth trade I think a lot of people really underestimate the value of cheap league average players/overestimate McClouths value. Gorky Hernandez, at worst I think, is projected end up being a defensive outfielder like Chavez, and I believe Chavez rates out as a slightly above average major league centerfielder, who will be under control for multiple years, plus they got Morton who will likely a borderline average pitcher, under team control for multiple years, and Jeff Locke who I know absolutely nothing about. So far McClouths absolute best year was last year where he totaled 3.6 WAR. If Hernandez ends up as nothing more than a major league average centerfielder he would be about 2.0 WAR and Morton sticks as a solid back of the rotation guy, even if he’s still below average he’ll end up being worth 1.5 WAR then they’ll essentially be breaking even in terms of McClouths value while saving a lot of money. Not to mention since they likely aren’t going to be competing anytime soon McClouth’s value in the near future would be wasted for them.
They didn’t get a lot of top prospects but they managed to acquire a lot of cheap relatively high floor players expected to be league average + some higher risk/higher reward players in L-Millz and Clement and prospects like Alderson and Hernandez
There seems to be a spectacula idiot working for the Boston Globe
who says Ichiro is in the Koufax, Pedro Pucket category.
I’m trying to think of a category that could possibly include Ichiro, Pucket, Pedro, and Koufax, baseball-related or not. They don’t have WMDs, for starters. (Unless you count Koufax’s curve).
Nothing can get by him; especially in a small room: Mike Francessa
Haha
I randomly came across that clip on YouTube last night.
by James Kannengieser on Aug 31, 2009 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions
shorter careers
highlighted by a couple years that were so great they dont need the long-term careers numbers to get into the hall.
That’s it. Was funny to read nonetheless.
by TheBigStapler on Sep 1, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
i still say
that the madoff fraud has a better chance of sending wilpon to jail then to bankruptcy court. the longer he was involved with madoff, the more likely he was to cash some of those fake ‘15%’ returns out and also more likely for him to have known at some poin that the whole thing was fraudulent. hence, all the numbers thrown around are purely speculative, though that doesnt mean that wilpon isnt sweating it.
Lets hope that when gut check time comes again the Mets will pass it with flying colors.
yea
you’d have to prove that he was willfully continuing in his part of the whole scheme, not just that he may have suspected that Madoff might not be 100% Kosher. Wilpon has been in this business long enough to know how to keep his hands clean
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage
by blueandorange4life on Sep 1, 2009 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
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