Players To Avoid This Offseason
With the Mets' playoff hopes all but erased, it's time to take an early look at 2010. The front office needs to rebound from its awful 2008-2009 offseason. We don't need to continue the recent streak of poor contracts, starting with Luis Castillo and continuing with Oliver Perez. To this end, here are a few players who will be free agents or may be available for trade this upcoming offseason who should be avoided for various reasons. Their 2009 stats and 2010 age are listed:
Bobby Abreu, age 36
.388 wOBA, 3.1 WAR
The Angels' signing of Abreu for $5 million plus incentives this past offseason is already a steal, and he will likely end being worth 3 or 4 times that amount. He will probably command a multi-year deal from some team, but let's hope it isn't the Mets. His plate discipline is still outstanding, but his ISO is a career low. Decreasing power + Citi Field = No thank you. Abreu's defense remains a major source of concern. The advanced metrics say he has been average or slightly above average this season, thanks mostly to his throwing arm. Before this season, he measured up as one of the worst defensive outfielders in baseball. While he probably wasn't as bad in 2008 as UZR said (-25.6 runs, wow), Abreu is likely a -10 defender at a non-premium position going forward.
Jason Bay, age 31
.382 wOBA, 1.2 WAR
Bay was the American League MVP of the first 2 months, posting an OPS of 1.042 and making Red Sox fans forget about Manny Ramirez. He has cooled off dramatically since then and his historically atrocious defense has continued to be terrible. Talks of a contract extension have stalled, and it seems likely that Bay will test the free agent market. With teams more aware of the importance of defense and also weary of signing older players to long-term deals, Bay might not receive the kind of money he thinks he's worth. Theo Epstein is in a tough position in that Bay is a supremely popular player in Boston right now but doesn't project to be worth much more than a 3-year, $33 million offer. However, Epstein has shown a willingness to let go of favorites (see Nomar, Pedro, Manny) so smart money says Bay doesn't return to Boston. Let's hope he doesn't return to the Mets organization, unless it's for a fair deal.
Orlando Hudson, age 32
.351 wOBA, 2.3 WAR
Like Bay, Hudson got off to an outstanding start, hitting .337/.411/.537 in April. This embiggened the Hudson proponents, and despite his not-so-great .278/.344/.399 line since then, the calls to sign him have continued. Sam already debunked the popular "Hudson >>>> Castillo" myth. Unfortunately, I don't think it is enough to stop the inevitable "SIGN O-DOG" discussions come November. It's not worth the effort and if Castillo can put together 2-win seasons from 2010-2011 it should be the least of our worries. There was some brief talk last offseason of Hudson being moved to the outfield. Considering he has never played even 1 inning out there, and his bat isn't exceptional for a corner outfield spot, this isn't a viable option.
Jason Kendall, age 35
.265 wOBA, 0.0 WAR
Next year's catcher situation is murky. Brian Schneider is a free agent and unlikely to be re-signed (although I wouldn't be opposed to it for the right price). The other internal options are either terrible (Omir Santos, Robinson Cancel) or unproven (Josh Thole). Ideally, pairing Thole with a Ramon Castro-type is a passable solution. Kendall does not qualify as a Castro-type. He hasn't posted a wOBA greater than .300 since 2006. After an outstanding defensive season in 2008, during which he threw out 43% of potential basestealers, his defense has suffered in 2009. He's the kind of player who would have value if signed to a minor league deal, but giving him a major league contract would be silly.
Daisuke Matsuzaka, age 29
35 IP, 5.72 FIP, 6.00 tERA
The rumblings have already begun and I hope they do not continue. Matsuzaka recently annoyed the Red Sox organization with some bizarre statements about their forced training regimen. The more likely cause of his injuries is the number of innings he's logged at such a young age and pitching in the World Baseball Classic prior to the season. Whatever the cause, he has not lived up to the hype, posting a tRA+ of 109 and 108 in 2007 and 2008, respectively. He is owed $28 million from 2010-2012, which is actually somewhat reasonable. The catch is the Mets would have to give up players to trade for him and I don't want Omar Minaya negotiating with Epstein. One walk machine (Ollie) is enough - we don't need to trade for another.
Xavier Nady, age 31
.321 wOBA, -0.1 WAR
Along with Hudson and Mark DeRosa, Nady completes the Holy Trinity of overrated players coveted by Mets fans. I think I've pinned down the reasons why:
Hudson
- Wears a double ear-flap helmet, automatically doubling his grission factor.
- Smiles a lot.
- Universally praised for his positive clubhouse presence by the mainstream media. (Note: This isn't a bad thing. If given the choice between 2 identical players, and 1 is a good clubhouse guy and the other a bad one, I'll take the good guy. However, it's an overrated trait and not reason enough to seek a player's services.)
DeRosa
- Is white.
- From New Jersey.
- The Cubs struggles this season were attributed to missing DeRosa's presence.
Nady
- Former Met, still associated with the 2006 season.
- Was traded for Oliver Perez, no one's favorite Met.
- Has a fun name.
2008 was a career year for Nady, both at the plate and in the field. Was it a breakout year and a preview of things to come or a fluke? It's probably somewhere in between and coming off of Tommy John surgery I'm not optimistic enough to think he will be more than a 2 win player at best. Mediocrity from the corner outfield spots has been the Mets trademark for years and adding Nady wouldn't change that.
0 recs |
50 comments
|
Comments
In Bobby Abreu's case
I have to ask “WAR? Huh. What is it good for?!”
Thank you, thank you. I’m here all week.
by deadspy3 on Aug 5, 2009 6:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Clubhouse presence
I read the same thing about Mike Sweeney at LL 3days ago.
by Michkin on Aug 5, 2009 6:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Nice
I included it as a way to extinguish the “You guys only care about stats there’s more to the game!” type comments that pop up here from time to time and usually end up in a pointless 100+ comment thread.
by James Kannengieser on Aug 5, 2009 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Errr why AVOID bay?
I agree with everything except Jason Bay here:
Your topic is players to AVOID….we shouldn’t AVOID Jason Bay, we should see if we can get him since getting him WOULD improve the team.
Your topic makes it clearly sound like these are overrated players who won’t help us as much as they cost….while this is clearly true for the other guys, Bay’s not really that overrated and if he comes at a decent cost (that 3 year 33 Mill contract you mentioned), well i think we should all be for it
Your only complaint about Bay is money,as opposed to the other guys…makes it kind of silly to be on this list, especially as it’s not you paying the contracts of the mets.
Just saying.
by garik16 on Aug 5, 2009 7:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
But
all bad contract money prevents spending on better players. There isn’t an infinite payroll. But point taken, Bay is the best of the bad bunch. He is a butcher in the field, though.
by deadspy3 on Aug 5, 2009 7:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In Bay's defense,
UZR is pretty worthless in left field at Fenway. It’s just too dramatically different than any other left field in baseball. He was below average in Pittsburgh, but not nearly as bad as his UZR at Fenway makes it look.
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Schmidtxc on Aug 5, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That makes sense, intuitively
I’d say that Bay isn’t really a player “to avoid” rather than a player “to avoid paying too much for”.
by JoshNY on Aug 5, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed,
but spending on Bay would probably make Francoeur the most likely outfielder to be pushed out by F!. That in and of itself may justify any contract.
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Schmidtxc on Aug 5, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's why I also looked at +/-, a similar system, before saying he stinks in the field
UZR
2009: -15.3
2008: -18.4
2007: -11.5
+/-
2009: -6
2008: -8
2007: -8
by James Kannengieser on Aug 5, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And TotalZone for good measure
2008: -35 (whoa)
2007: -18
by James Kannengieser on Aug 5, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think his point was Bay will want more than that contract.
And I think the complaint is always about money. If any of these guys were willing to sign for the league min or something then I doubt they would make the list, and the point is when the Mets give out crappy contracts it keeps them from giving contracts to better players since the Wilpons aren’t budget less like the Yankees and refuse to go over the luxury tax threshold.
by Gina on Aug 5, 2009 8:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why not sign Bay
unless you really want to see Pagan(Who i like) in left.Bay is the best on the market and it would be a mistake not to sigh him
by Jadden Hopkins on Aug 5, 2009 7:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I would say Holliday is the best of the market
And because being the best of a crappy market doesn’t make you worth signing. Carlos Silva was the best in his market when he got signed.
by Gina on Aug 5, 2009 8:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah and
And because being the best of a crappy market doesn’t make you worth signing.
This is scary. W/ the current Mets F.O., I am increasingly worried that this will be Omar’s pet project of the offseason, avoiding the other problems with the Mets and signing Holliday (or Bay) to some deal that looks like Vernon Wells’s in 2 years while sticking with Francoeur in RF, some combo of Murphy/Evans at 1B, garbage at catcher, and a Livan Hernandez type (maybe even another year of Livan Hernandez) to go w/ Santana, Pelfrey. Perez and Niese.
by mets81 on Aug 5, 2009 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Don't worry
Omar will be gone at the end of the year.At least i hope
by Jadden Hopkins on Aug 5, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh god
Running through this list I felt as though I could imagine omar signing every one of these guys. I hope I’m proven wrong.
by Pat Andriola on Aug 5, 2009 7:56 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
look at this, pirates GM from a while ago
he may have traded the entire team, but at least he is smart
we should get him and manny acta
http://pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071101&content_id=2290860&vkey=news_pit&fext=.jsp&c_id=pit
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Aug 5, 2009 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
eh, I don't think he'll sign Hudson
unless Castillo’s career is over. If he didnt sign Hudson coming off Castillo’s 2008, he won’t now.
by mets81 on Aug 5, 2009 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everyone but.
I can picture myself squirming in my seat now, trying not to yell obscenities at Kendall. Christ.
by LeiterMilnerFasterStronger on Aug 6, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holliday>>>>>Bay
I don’t care about Boras, he robbed us with Ollie, we may as well negotiate with him for a good player.
About Abreu… call me crazy but I think he would be an excelent leadoff hitter. Even at his age his speed seems the same as ever and his on base skills are legit, i don’t see his wOBA as a fluke at all. His defense is not as bad as 2008 i see him as a -5 or so.
by Clemenx00 on Aug 5, 2009 8:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah,
I agree – and on Defense, put him in Left with a healthy (I’m just going to be dellusional about this until I know otherwise) Carlos Beltran in Center and his Defensive is less an issue (if it is one at all).
by mets81 on Aug 5, 2009 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, but I agree with James here.
If he asks for more thn 2 years obviously would be a bad idea, I’m just saying that if there’s possibility of signing him in the same circumstances than the Angels we should.
This won’t happen obviously, we’re stuck with Francoeur for life.
by Clemenx00 on Aug 5, 2009 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right,
My big problem though, which I neglected to mention above, is that he’ll be a type A free agent. This will probably lead to him being available on a similar deal to the one he signed with the Angels, but I don’t know if I’d give up the draft pick for him.
by mets81 on Aug 5, 2009 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually would really like Francoeur as a bench piece.
He puts the ball in play, and a guy like that could definitely be a useful player. I just don’t like him as a starter. Best case scenario might be Omar spending big on a left fielder (ideally holliday), and F! forcing his way into the lineup over Francoeur.
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Schmidtxc on Aug 5, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
With the way people talk about the Mets,
and by people I mean Francesa (I assume he qualifies as people), Francoeur has a lot of upside and F! didn’t look good at all during his time in the show and seems to be a bust.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
by Evan_S on Aug 5, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is one time I'm glad Minaya is so stubborn...
He loves F!, and I think he’d be willing to go out on a limb to see him succeed (just so Omar looks etter for keeping him). I’m one of those people who likes Francoeur’s upside, but with an approach as poor as his he’ll never see enough good pitches to realize it. He really needs to spend some time out of a big league lineup to work on it.
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Schmidtxc on Aug 5, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank god
I’m sick of all the unjustified Nady love from Mets fans, especially the ones who act like he would have won us the World Series in 06. He was nothing special here. Decent hitter I suppose, but slower than dirt and atrocious in the field, and absolutely horrendous with RISP. The only players I’ve seen hit into more double plays with the bases loaded are 6-4-3 Tatis and 643 year old Julio Franco.
by Steeeve on Aug 5, 2009 9:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This gives me a sad
I would take X back on the team for purely sentimental reasons. This is one of a handful of reasons I am not GM.
by Kepler on Aug 5, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Other + qualities of DeRosa
I heard he is a good listener and has a perfect attendance record
by cuseindahuse on Aug 5, 2009 10:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He also has lights out at 12 on road trips
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Aug 5, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Jesus is his BFF
Is there a guy more grissiony than Jesus? I think not.
by Steeeve on Aug 5, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The guy who grissioned his way through the sea without getting wet
by Michkin on Aug 5, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Mets could use someone to die for their sins.
by Kepler on Aug 5, 2009 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jesus should lobby Omar for an organizational position.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Aug 5, 2009 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about VP of player development?
Adam Rubin would leave him alone. Everybody know you don’t fuck with the Jesus.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Aug 6, 2009 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If smiling made someone liked by baseball fans
Jose Reyes would be the most popular player in baseball.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Aug 5, 2009 11:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hudson is still better than Castillo
And will be going forward. Castillo has been good, but he is an injury-prone one dimensional OBP player that provides little else, and I would not expect this same production from him next year, and especially not the final year of his contract when he’ll be like 35. His sbs are done this year, too.
by David G on Aug 6, 2009 3:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hudson could be better going foward
And still be crappy. Not to mention if Castillo’s one-dimensional what is Hudson? A dimension and a half?
by Gina on Aug 6, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You need to look at the other 2b out there
Come on, you say Hudson is crappy? Really? Maybe he’s crappy for a 1B or outfielder, he’s not crappy when matched up against the following players in the NL who’ve started at 2b this year: Kaz Matsui, David Eckstein, Freddy Sanchez, Felipe Lopez, Skip Schumacher, Clint Barmes, Mike Fontenot, Brandon Phillips, Anderson Hernandez, Kelly Johnson, Craig Counsell and Luis Castillo. Hudson’s OPS is higher than every single one of these guys. When you have the third best OPS in the National league for 2b, that’s not crappy. Uggla is 2nd highest, but his fielding is obviously atrocious, I’d put Hudson ahead of him.
So basically, when factoring in D and over talent, Brandon Phillips and Utley are better than him, and you could maybe make a case for Weeks if he was healthy. Hudson’s a top tier 2b in the NL, there’s no other way around it.
by David G on Aug 6, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You forgot to mention how much grission Hudson has
Castillo is anti-grission. That’s the most important thing.
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Schmidtxc on Aug 6, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, on Castillo's WAR
do you subtract 1 for the dropped catch vs. Yanks?
by David G on Aug 6, 2009 3:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
WPA would be better for that.
But that’s not an indicator going forward, like WAR is.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Aug 6, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Couldn't agree more
Please NO JASON BAY.
The only one I would fail to agree with is Bobby Abreu I think if he signs a 1 year $5 mil contract again it might be worth signing him and losing a first rounder….might I said…his D is sure to be worse in Citi Field.
He wouldn’t be my first choice:
Alex Rios, Matt Holliday, Nick Swisher, Mike Cameron all interest me with regards to filling an OF spot.
I will seriously be upset if they sign: Jason Bay or Orlando Hudson.
by Ohpityme on Aug 8, 2009 5:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

by 


















