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Carlos Delgado: His Legacy And His Future

Carlos Delgado's contract with the Mets is up after this year and it's very likely that we have seen him take the field for the last time as a Met. He isn't returning in 2009 and I suspect he probably won't be back next season, either. Health-wise he should be ready to play the 2010 season, I just don't expect him to be playing it with the Mets.

The latest reverse-engineered Elias Rankings place Delgado well within the range of Type B status, which means if the Mets offer Delgado arbitration and he signs elsewhere the Mets are awarded a sandwich pick after the first round of next June's amateur draft. Sounds great, except that Delgado could actually accept the Mets' offer of salary arbitration, which would probably be bad. Delgado is making $12 million this season, and while his potential salary award isn't governed by the same rules as players who aren't yet eligible for free agency (i.e. it doesn't really matter what he made in 2009), $6 million probably isn't out of the question and I don't know whether the Mets are willing to risk an arbitration award in that ballpark just for the chance to pick up another draft pick. Then again, if Delgado is even reasonably healthy next year -- say, 400+ plate appearances healthy -- he should be productive enough to earn that $6 million and then some.

Disregarding the draft pick for a moment, the Mets could simply resign Delgado to an old-fashioned incentive-laden deal. There's no merit pay in Major League Baseball, so contracts with playing time bonuses are the only real performance-related clauses teams can rely on to hedge their bets on injury-prone ballplayers. As always, there is no guarantee that any particular player will actually be any good, in which case escalators based on plate appearances or innings pitched can backfire on the team, especially if their manager insists on using unproductive players enough to actually reach those escalator thresholds. Given his recent performances, though, Delgado should be even money to be an average offensive firstbaseman.

Star-divide

If the Mets do sign Delgado for 2010, either straight up for via arbitration, there's always the option of platooning him with Nick Evans, e.g. Platoon arrangements are often posited (especially here) and rarely implemented for a variety of reasons. Primarily, players who have become accustomed to playing every day are rarely receptive to the idea of losing half (or a third, or two-thirds) of their playing time and most managers are reluctant to tell Proven Veterans™ to take a seat against like-handed pitchers. There's a little more juice to a Delgado platoon, though, as the 38-year-old could doubtless use some mandatory time off to rest his aching body parts.

All of this may be pointless conjecture. We saw the Mets let Pedro Martinez walk away at the end of last season because of recurring injury concerns and there's every reason to believe they'll take the same approach with respect to Delgado's impending free agency. Delgado is even older than Martinez and has had a less accomplished tenure with the Mets, so don't look for them to fall over themselves to bring him back.

If Delgado does leave town this offseason he will do so as one of the most productive firstbaseman in franchise history.

Num Player WAR
1 Keith Hernandez 27
2 John Olerud 18.2
3 Dave Magadan 15.9
4 Lee Mazzilli 13
5 John Milner 9.7
6 Carlos Delgado 7.9
7 Ed Kranepool 5.7
8 Rico Brogna 3.3
9 Eddie Murray 3.1
10 Donn Clendenon 3.1

Players must have at least 50 games at firstbase with the Mets to qualify. WAR figures are career totals with the Mets at all positions. Obviously, some of these guys played positions other than firstbase, some quite a bit. Lists like these always serve as a reminder of how good John Olerud was. In about the same number of plate appearances Olerud was more than twice as good as Delgado.

If we cast out Lee Mazzilli and John Milner for being outfielders as much as firstbasemen Delgado slides up fourth on the list. Adjusted for playing time Delgado lands at fourth overall, too:

Num Player WAR/650PA
1 John Olerud 5.86
2 Keith Hernandez 4.76
3 Dave Magadan 4.16
4 Carlos Delgado 2.54
5 Lee Mazzilli 2.42
6 Rico Brogna 2.41
7 John Milner 2.29
8 Donn Clendenon 2.11
9 Eddie Murray 1.57
10 Tim Harkness 1.19

The second column just represents WAR per 650 plate appearances, which is a quick-and-dirty way to get a full seasonal average for each player. If Dave Magadan wasn't already on your list of favorite Mets feel free to add him now. He was very much a poor man's Olerud, drawing lots of walks (though hitting for far less power) and basically going unnoticed by most. Magadan is a story for another day, however. If you're curious, Delgado also has the tenth best single season by WAR among Mets firstbasemen.

Whatever comes of Delgado beyond 2009, he was one of the handful of best firstbasemen the Mets have ever had. He was paid handsomely and was oft-injured; he was probably even injured when we thought he wasn't. I liked him has a person and as a player, I just wish he appeared as the latter a bit more often over the past four seasons.

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Nicely done.

In the name of getting younger and more athletic as was promised to us back in 2004, I lobby for Delgado to be an ex-Met playing as DH in the AL for the rest of his career.

by fxcarden on Sep 17, 2009 9:20 AM EDT via mobile reply actions   0 recs

+1

"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage

by blueandorange4life on Sep 17, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have a feeling

a team knows before offering arbitration whether the player will accept it or not. Maybe not.

by TheBigStapler on Sep 17, 2009 10:08 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I always liked Dave Magadan

I had no idea he’d be this high up though. Also, more confirmation of Keith’s awesomeness.

You don't cheer for the Mets. You drink for the Mets.

by Kevin H on Sep 17, 2009 10:28 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Magadan was my favorite player as a kid.

Not sure I had any great reason, but I imagine his lack of speed and power gave me some hope that I could play baseball despite any talent to do so.

by metslaw on Sep 17, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't want to get FireJerryManuel all fired up again, but...
Delgado is even older than Martinez and has had a less accomplished tenure with the Mets

During his tenure Pedro only averaged 121 IP’s per season. Even if you discount 2007, he still only averaged 157 IP’s. Delgado had over 600 PA’s each of his three full seasons and averaged 637. Delagdo was also an 8.1 WAR player during his tenure. While Pedro was a 9.3 WAR player, that is highly skewed because of his 5.9 WAR in 2005. From 2006-2008, Delgado averaged 2.4 WAR and Pedro averaged 1.1 WAR.

Pedro clearly had the best single season and I appreciate the energy he brought to the franchise in 2005. But given the hype surrounding him, his injuries, and his decline after year one, I can’t get behind that statement.

by Reg Dunlop on Sep 17, 2009 11:49 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Well

If you’re equating “playing” with “accomplishment”, then I suppose Delgado’s tenure was more accomplished. Delgado was great for a year and a half, terrible for a year and a half, and injured for a year. I’m certainly not saying Pedro was the best Met ever, but it’s not clear Delgado was any better, and a case can be made that he was a little worse.

by Eric Simon on Sep 17, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not "equating" playing with accomplishment

But actually playing should be a factor in how a players accomplishments should be viewed. Of each of their three full seasons as a Met Delgado was a higher win player than Pedro. Pedro’s best year was way better, but that is an outlier when compared to the rest of his time here.

You can make the “if Pedro hadn’t gotten hurt” argument, but the bottom line is he did get hurt. And because he got hurt he could help the team.

Overall, they each had about 1.5-2 good years, 1-1.5 bad years, and 1injured year. So if their accomplishments are relatively equal, then yes; I will give the benefit of the doubt to the guy who was actually on the field more.

by Reg Dunlop on Sep 17, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No need to split hairs

I say Pedro was more accomplished because of higher WAR; you say Delgado because he played more. I don’t think we’re really that far off.

by Eric Simon on Sep 17, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

It’s a coin flip.

by Reg Dunlop on Sep 17, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Boy and I thought 3rd base was a black hole for the Mets

3 things to take away from this – 1) We let Olerud walk to get Todd Ziele and save $1mm – ridiculous, 2) Mex was about as awesome as we though, 3) the Mets stink at first base. Three (3!!!!) first basemen in 47 years with a WAR/650 over 3. In a position that should be rife with them. We probably have more catchers with that good of a WAR/650.

by rcfriedberg on Sep 17, 2009 11:50 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I love rippin on our ownership

but I dunno if the Olerod/Ziele thing is fair. IIRC Olerud was pretty intent on playing closer to where he grew up

by MetsKnicksRutgers on Sep 17, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I read that this was in fact not true

The Mets (Steve Phillips) essentially assumed that’s what Olerud wanted to do — and yes, to be fair, the media reported it that way. But later, IIRC, Olerud claimed that it wasn’t, in fact, true, and that the Mets hadn’t really bothered to ask him if it was.

by jasondg on Sep 17, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

looks like it was a little of both

they both had 18.75 mil offers, John asked Seattle to up to 20, they did and he signed. No word if he asked the mets to go to 21 or if that would have made a difference.

the conf call after the signing, Olerud said it was about his family. but they all say that..

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/12/08/sports/baseball-you-can-go-home-it-s-seattle-for-olerud.html?scp=1&sq=olerud+seattle&st=nyt

what do you mean IIRC?

by gbaked on Sep 17, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

IIRC

=If I recall correctly

Nothing can get by him; especially in a small room: Mike Francessa

by GenJackRipper on Sep 20, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm behind the platoon idea

I think Delgado might be more inclined to except it at this point given he just missed 5/6 of the season with injuries. A reminder of his own mortality might make him amenable to an incentive contract to still get playing time, and I think he’d be a good mentor for whichever player or players get platooned with him. That said, fxcarden probably has it right and he can probably get a better deal DH’ing for some AL team, but I think the option of bringing him back should at least be considered.

"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage

by blueandorange4life on Sep 17, 2009 12:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i dont think delgado

wants to play here.

He didnt want to sign with us in the first place and he has never given me the impression he liked this city.

You know the commercial he has for the mets. Where he talks about how NY is not his home? I am not saying he is a bad guy or hates the city or anything… but I just always gotten the feeling he didnt like living/playing here.

by gbaked on Sep 17, 2009 1:38 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I know what you're saying

but I actually feel differently. I think he has embraced the city, including its considerable Puerto Rican contingency, and he has been very active in the local community.

As I recall, he didn’t want to come to the Mets initially because of the way Tony Bernazard emphasized their mutual Hispanic heritage instead of talking about why his signing here would make sense from a baseball standpoint.

by Eric Simon on Sep 17, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

delgado strikes me as the kind of guy

that would be active in any community he is in. Regardless of where he plays or if he likes the city.

the point I was trying to make was offering him Arbitration may be the way to go. Because I never got the impression he would want to stay here if given the choice. He should be able to get 6mil somewhere next year…

question – if he is a B FA and signs elsewhere, does the team that signs him give up a pick? I would assume no… but whenever I assume I end up looking like an ass.

by gbaked on Sep 17, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nope

The Mets get a sandwich pick from no one in particular. The signing team doesn’t give up any picks.

by Eric Simon on Sep 17, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that

and because Bernazard would address him in “street Spanish,” and Delgado, who fashions himself an intellectual, took offense.

by jasondg on Sep 17, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Um...I dont think so.

Seems to me anyone not named Billy Wagner who has a camera shoved on their face might come off as intelectual. I witnessed an exchange in spanish between Carlos and Manny Acta and it was pretty ghetto.

by fxcarden on Sep 17, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's tricky

there’s no Teixeira in this free agent class. Every available replacement has his question marks. I’d rather not have to spend too much this offseason on a free agent.

I think if Delgado accepted arbitration at $6MM or less, that would be more than acceptable. The risk reward is worth it because we at least have some internal options in case of a disaster.

Plus, I like the guy and that counts for something.

by TheBigStapler on Sep 17, 2009 2:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It isn't all that tricky if...

we spend the dollars on pitching and trade for say, Adrian Gonzalez. I only bring him up because the fat guy on WFAN is convinced he can be had….question is, at what price ?.

by fxcarden on Sep 17, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

speaking of fat guys

there’s a fat guy in milwaukee that apparently can be had. Any takers?

by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Sep 17, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I'll take him, too.

In fact, probably over Gonzalez. I want to see him and Reyes coreograph a walkoff routine. That oughta keep the media busy for years.

by fxcarden on Sep 17, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If the Cain for Fielder rumors have any credibility

then we’re talking about giving up at least Pelfrey plus another top prospect. I don’t think we could afford to trade pitching right now.

by TheBigStapler on Sep 17, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have major issues

with fat athletes.

The probability that they just fall off the table and become awful at some point is… well.. huge.

by gbaked on Sep 17, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

In fact I think you are stretching the definition of athlete with Prince. Not an athlete. A Moo Vaughn in the making. Hell of a ballplayer, mind, but for how long until his knees collapse?

by deadspy3 on Sep 17, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

problems with signing delgado

1.) his range – it was always bad, and a year after hip surgery, i will be worse. everyone who had that surgery has seen their range decrease, at least in the year after. look at mike lowell.

2.) being able to shoot ol’ yeller – if he does suck, do you trust ANYONE to pull the plug on him? or to platoon him, ever?

that being said, he represents likely our best option.

though if not him, i’d rather give murphy another go, platooned with evans, and see if he can’t do a better job. if he fails again, see if chris carter can approximate league average.

there are no real enticing 1b options out there, except maybe MAH BOY conor jackson. nick johnson isn’t good enough to justify his injury-riskiness. branyan? meeeeeeeeh.

i know murphy looks like shit this year, but there were plenty of objective, intelligent people who thought he could hit.

but yes, first choice would likely be delgado.

by firejerrymanuel on Sep 17, 2009 3:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think Ike Davis

is already a better option than Delgado. Then upgrade the leftfield position via free agency.

by David G on Sep 17, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ike davis

better than delgado right now?

craziness.

why don’t we let him hit his way into the line-up, instead of bestowing it upon him after a good season where he finished at aa.

worst comes to worst he plays RF with delgado at first while frenchy cries about being an everyday player

by firejerrymanuel on Sep 17, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's able

to walk without a cane, so yes, he’s better than Delgado RIGHT NOW. Your words, not mine. Plus, Delgado has zero range at first, and will probably be even worse than that next year. Combine that with the fact that Castillo’s range will diminish again certainly, and you’d have a right side of the infield that’s a sieve next year. Send Delgado out to sea, just as the eskimos do with their elders.

by David G on Sep 17, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I actually like Ike

I’d see if we can get lucky and bring him to the bigs post-All Star 2011.

Nothing can get by him; especially in a small room: Mike Francessa

by GenJackRipper on Sep 20, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Indeed

Look at that short stroke. He’s a future #3 hitter. Mark my words.

In all seriousness, why the hell did he stop walking?

Nothing can get by him; especially in a small room: Mike Francessa

by GenJackRipper on Sep 20, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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