Brooklyn Beltran Applesauce - Citi dimensions not going anywhere, Met triple plays, Mariano for Cy

by Joe Budd on Sep 3, 2009 7:47 AM EDT in Applesauce

While I didn't want Brian Stokes to suffer any more loss of self esteem, I couldn't help but think of next year's high draft pick. I hate it when my long term realism starts getting in the way of my immediate fanhood.

Meet the Mets

The Mets are apparently standing pat on Citi Field's dimensions. This will have zero effect on the team's future.

Despite not feeling 100%, Carlos Beltran impressed Mike Silva in Brooklyn last night. Again, this makes no sense.

Keith Law says Josh Thole is one of a few call ups to keep your eyes on.

The Daily Stache declares the Jeff Francoeur acquisition the best moment of the season.

Buffalo has had a rough season, but unlike the Mets, they had a triple play in their favor. The Bisons also named Nelson Figueroa their most valuable pitcher.

BlueAndOrange.net argues that handing Daniel Murphy the starting left fielder's job has been bad for his development comparing his progress to Nick Evans'.

Johan Santana has been nominated for baseball's good guy award the Roberto Clemente Award. It makes up for the Cy Young he was robbed of last year.

Around the NL East

Brad Penny made his first Giant start last night and shut down the Phillies for 8 innings, leading to a 4-0 San Francisco victory.

I didn't notice this yesterday, but Cole Hamels picked up his first career stolen base.

Brett Myers will likely rejoin Philadelphia this weekend against Houston after pitching a scoreless eighth inning.

Hanley Ramirez and Dan Uggla exchanged some loud words with each other in the Marlins clubhouse, but still managed to pick up a win against Atlanta.

The Nationals continue to lose games and pitchers. This time Craig Stammen. Washington, however, picked up two solid arms from the Dodgers for Ronnie Belliard.

Around MLB

John Harper says that Zack Greinke hasn't had a lights-out enough season to run past Mariano Rivera for the Cy Young.

The Jake Peavy saga just keeps changing its tune. It now looks like he's done for the season.

Adrian Beltre has decided in favor of a cup.

Violating the no-politics rule, here's a story about Curt Schilling eyeing Ted Kennedy's Senate seat.

Finally, one of my favorite fails of all time.

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Comments

"It makes up for the Cy Young he was robbed of last year."

homer much?

by viktor06 on Sep 3, 2009 9:32 AM EDT reply actions

Yes.

Guilty. I root for the team that I blog for.

by Joe Budd on Sep 3, 2009 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

It feels like people have just been waiting for a year when they can slip mariano a cy young

And Jeter an MVP for that matter. Like it’s a lifetime achievement award.

(which after RTFA, Harper comes right out and says as much)

by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Sep 3, 2009 9:40 AM EDT reply actions

+1

that article is assanin and if greinke (and mauer for that matter) doesn’t win, the system failed.

by Rob Castellano on Sep 3, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions

And Girardi for Manager of the Year

And I’m sure there’s some rookie middle of the reliever that they can hand the ROTY award to.

I had an argument with a friend of mine who is a Yankees fan, and of course he was spewing the Teixeira for MVP propaganda. Naturally he had to pull out a variant of the “they could have finished third without him” argument against Mauer. Well, the Yankees could have finished first without Teixeira (see Anaheim, Los Angeles Angels of).

And the fact that Harper brought up Greinke’s win total reveals what a farce of a column that is. While I would argue that if any modern closer deserves the Cy Young it’s Mo, the award should go to Greinke.

by dcmetsfan on Sep 3, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions

can anyone post the stats of

mo vs. greinke?

by gbaked on Sep 3, 2009 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions

Here ya go

Greinke: 27 GS, 190.3 IP, 2.32 ERA, 1.08 WHIP, .311 BABIP, 40 BB, 202 K, FIP: 2.76, VORP: 69.5, WAR: 7.6

Rivera: 55 G, 55.7 IP, 1.78 ERA, 0.90 WHIP, .252 BABIP, 38 saves/39 opps, 9 BB, 61 K, FIP: 2.78, VORP: 25.0, WAR: 1.8

by dcmetsfan on Sep 3, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions

For some perspective

In the year Willie Hernandez won the Cy Young as a reliever (1984), he threw 140 innings in 80 games, and his numbers were otherwise like Rivera’s.

by dcmetsfan on Sep 3, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions

So let's get this straight

Greinke has:
- a nearly identical FIP to Mo
- a better tRA
- a worse ERA, but will end up pitching about 150 more IP thus having significantly more value

Why would this even be up for discussion? If anything Felix Hernandez has the 2nd best case for Cy.

by James Kannengieser on Sep 3, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions

ZOMG?!

WTF? U R lulz. Grinke no have WInZZZZ! If he wuz any gud he wud pitch gr8 and have the WiNZZZZzzZ!

"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Sep 3, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions

spoken like a true asshole

by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Sep 3, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions

Oh, crap, I forgot the sig line:

YANKEES RULE!!!!!! 26 TIME WORLD CHAMPIONS FOREVER – GOT RINGZ? LOL BOSTON SUX/“THAAAA YANKEES WIN THAAAA YANKEES WIN!” – GREATEST BROADCASTER OF ALL TIME JOHN STERLING

"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Sep 3, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions

sorry

Not convincing enough. Needs animated .gifs of bikini girls with Yankees hats, and some kind of “YANKEE STADIUM – 1922-2008 – THA HOUSE THAT RUTH BUILT” statement.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Sep 3, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions

Yeah

I guess my heart’s not really in it. Hard to duplicate that kind of inanity.

"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Sep 3, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions

brilliance

Some of the “better” message board sigs approach accidental brilliance, sort of “outsider art.” Like those paintings that elephants make, holding the brush in their trunks.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Sep 3, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions

zacky

If Greinke were truly a great pitcher, he would will his lineup not to stink like feet, and his bullpen to be perfect. He’s not a magical, glistening Yankeebeast yet.

(if anything it’s to Greinke’s credit that he’s pitched so well and kept his ish together while on such a crappy team)

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Sep 3, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions

The best part about bringing up the win column

That season, Rivera had 43 saves and a career-low 1.38 ERA, yet finished a distant second in the voting to Bartolo Colon, who went 21-8 for the Angels but had a relatively high 3.48 ERA and gave up 26 home runs, benefiting greatly from good run support.

…

especially in the case of Greinke, who has by the far the best overall numbers, including a league-leading 2.32 ERA, but only 13 wins for the last-place Royals.

…so, if Rivera loses to a guy with a lot of wins, it’s because that guy got a lot of run support, but if he were to lose to Greinke, that would be bad because Greinke doesn’t have enough wins? It just drives me nuts how people can get that wins aren’t really a good measure of a pitcher’s worth, but still keep citing them, even one paragraph later.

Brewers Baseball and other assorted nonsense (mostly the assorted nonsense) at my blog, What's a Tararrel?

by Lefti on Sep 3, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions

so this will be the third year when Joe Mauer has been robbed of his rightful MVP award?

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Sep 3, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions

There was an interesting artcile on Baseball Prospectus

that tried to simulate the MVP voting. Teixeira came out on top but they mentioned how there has been an anti-Yankee bias in the past couple of decades.

by TheBigStapler on Sep 3, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions

The Twins making a run

might be enough to make even the BWAA sse the obvious.

by Mount17 on Sep 3, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions

Mauer update

still leading the AL in BA, OBP, SLG

by JoshNY on Sep 3, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions

It's an interesting debate

Should relievers be considered for Cy Young awards? They don’t pitch enough innings to be as valuable as starters in terms of wins but that doesn’t necessarily mean they aren’t the best pitchers throughout any full season.

by TheBigStapler on Sep 3, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions

I don't think you can ever say "this group of people should never win this award"

but I think there has to be a true opening, as in nobody out there having a year like Grienke, for a reliever to win the Cy. Since relievers are inherently less valuable than starters, you’d have to have an unreal year from the former and no one that stands out from the latter.

by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Sep 3, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions

I agree

I was trying to find an example where that would fit. in 2003, Eric Gagne won the NL Cy Young with 4.5 WAR, which is absurdly high for a reliever but still not as valuable overall as Mark Prior’s magnificent 7.6 WAR.

by TheBigStapler on Sep 3, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions

The last before him was Dennis Eckersley in 1992 for the AL but Clemens had a more valuable year, if you ask me.

by TheBigStapler on Sep 3, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions

to be fair

Rivera almost definitely should have won it in 2005 (or at least finished ahead of Colon), and last year he had one of the best seasons ever by a relief pitcher, but it was overshadowed by Frankies SAVEZ, plus Cliff Lee really did deserve it.

And Jeter would have been my choice for MVP in 2006, although Mauer had a legitimate case too. Morneau, on the other hand, not so much.

by cjmulrain on Sep 3, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions

Mo winning it

would not be a crime. He is having a great season, and as you stated… he has deserved it in years past. And as much as I hate to say it, he probably should retire with at least 1 CY Young to his name.

It would be much worse for Tex (who, to be fair, is also having an awesome season and would look so good in a mets uniform) to win over Mauer. Much, much worse.

by gbaked on Sep 3, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions

No homer

But Santana deserved it on 2005. Another Cy robbed because of the WINZZZZ. But yeah, Bartolo didn’t deserved that Cy Young in any event.

by Clemenx00 on Sep 3, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions

cy

Lincecum winning last year over Santana was, at the very least, defensible. I kind of leaned toward Santana but wasn’t outraged when Lincecum won. Colon taking the award over Santana in 2005 was downright criminal, as bad or worse than if Webb had won the award in 2008.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Sep 3, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions

I meant Cy Youngs in general being decided by wins, sorry.

I’m a Lincecum fan, his Cy was as fair as it is! Though luck for Santana last year but Tim is a beast.

by Clemenx00 on Sep 3, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions

Jetes

I just looked at Jeter’s 1999 season. Holy crap. If Pedro couldn’t have won it (and he probably should have), Jeter should have gotten the award.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Sep 3, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions

Pedro definitely should have won in '99

and I’m no Ivan Rodriguez fan, but you can definitely make a case for him that year. He put up a .914 OPS as a catcher, and was generally regarded as the best defensive catcher in the league. Jetes put up a .989 as a SS, but you have to remember that was the same season Garciaparra hit .357 and had a 1.022 OPS and ARod had a .943 OPS…catcher was definitely more of a premium position in ’99 than SS, maybe even moreso than it is today.

by cjmulrain on Sep 3, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions

Beltran report

I missed his first at bat but it was an rbi single. Next he walked handily then was picked off at first. He gave a “Huh? You’re serious?” look to the ump and retreated very slowly. Third AB he hit it hard but the liner was caught on the RF track. Last AB he took two strikes, watched another close pitch, then whiffed, making some 19 yo pitcher happy. He didn’t play the outfield and spent much of the game on the top step with the kiddies, though he talked a lot to management and I never actually saw him talking to a ’clone.

by Pack Bringley on Sep 3, 2009 9:47 AM EDT reply actions

Adam Rubin lobby for

Cit Field dimensions to stay the same

Gangsta

by Jadden Hopkins on Sep 3, 2009 9:52 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs

Damn...you beat me to it.

Stupid Work!

by blains2000 on Sep 3, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions

you should totally quit

by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Sep 3, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions

No way

being unemployed has actually reduced the amount of time I spend on AA.

"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Sep 3, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions

Yeah man

Everyone knows blogging exists only to distract from actual work.

by dcmetsfan on Sep 3, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions

the "lobby" meme

I hate to nitpick, but isn’t it supposed to be “has lobby”?

by JoshNY on Sep 3, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions

Well, you know,

I mean, Adam has lobby, you know what I’m sayin’?

by blains2000 on Sep 3, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions

beltran

i know you all hate that he is playing but I really think there is something to the head trip.

They should treat him with extreme kid gloves… and not play everyday when he comes back. But if he can, and the doctors (sigh) say he is healthy then he should play. It will ease his mind over the winter.

If he is not ready then he shouldn’t, but he should not shut it down for no reason.

of course, the only problem with all this is relying on the mets medical staff and for Jerry/omar to handle this properly. Which is very unlikely.

by gbaked on Sep 3, 2009 9:58 AM EDT reply actions

a ha

that’s where all the forboding was coming from, couldn’t put my finger on it. Damn medical staff

"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage

by blueandorange4life on Sep 3, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions

Eh I think there are some injuries that that makes sense for

But I think when you’re talking about a mid 30 year old centerfielder with knee problems bad enough that some had recommended micro fracture I think adding more wear and tear, in meaningless games is one of the times where easing his mind isn’t as important. Even if he’s not going to injure it worse if there’s already that much damage then we don’t want to add to the stress or have him injure something else overcompensating.

by Gina on Sep 3, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions

Nitpicking, but he'll only be 33 in 2010.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Sep 3, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions

Not mid 30s

But I’d say 33 is pretty old, especially for a center fielder with knee problems, and a previous history of leg injuries.

by Gina on Sep 3, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions

33 - 37 is mid 30's IMHO.. so you ok...

I hear ya, and it would not bother me 1 bit if he shut it down for the year. I just understand his argument.

Thats why I would say it would have to be given the ok by the medical staff. Thus the rub of not trusting our medical staff.

In the end, it is prob for the best for him to shut it down… but if I were him, I would be trying to come back as well. If I were the MGMT of the mets, I would want him to play in a few games but only if the dr.s say it was cool. If I was the mets medical staff I would be preoccupied trying to figure out how to walk and talk at the same time.

by gbaked on Sep 3, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions

If I were MGMT, I would play electric feel

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Sep 3, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions

John Haper once again proves something beyond a shadow of a doubt.

He is a sublime, epic, and phenomenal idiot.

Nothing can get by him; especially in a small room: Mike Francessa

by GenJackRipper on Sep 3, 2009 10:55 AM EDT reply actions

I don't get

how he can say noone is having a lights out year. Greinke has a 2.32 ERA in the AL! I know ERA is primitive, but shouldn’t that be blowing the mind of a dolt like Harper?

by dtro on Sep 3, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions

I think Harpers brain tops out

at counting stats.

by Gina on Sep 3, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions

Harper vs. Madden

Who is worse?

by James Kannengieser on Sep 3, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions

We should have a bracket-style worst baseball writer tournament.

by TheBigStapler on Sep 3, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Oh and that Daily Stache thing

was pretty dumb.

by dtro on Sep 3, 2009 11:23 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs

Dimensions

I know this is more of a debate for the offseason, but I would like to see them lower the fences and bring in right center a bit. I’m all for a pitcher’s park, but those two features are a bit ridiculous. An Endy-type catch is one of the most exiting plays in the game and they’ve taken that away, and a righty (i.e. Wright) should be able to have at least a chance at hitting one oppo. Also, Omar and Jerry want to keep things the same, so they should probably do the opposite.

by Mount17 on Sep 3, 2009 11:47 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs

We should send them

that Seinfeld episode where George does the opposite of everything he thinks.

by blains2000 on Sep 3, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions

+1

by cjmulrain on Sep 3, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions

rec'd

because the last sentence should really be how the mets make any decisions… to bad they’re the ones who make most of the mets baseball related decisions.

by Gina on Sep 3, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions

The extra high wall in front of the apple

is pretty silly. It’s hard enough to get it out there to straight away center, do they really need that extra high part? Move the apple back a little if you need to. I’d also add padding to right center, and bring right center in since that is Wright’s power zone. Someone, namely Beltran, could get hurt out there on the chain fence.

by David G on Sep 3, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions

Or better yet

lower the wall, leave the apple and let it get banged up like a REAL home run apple.

by TheBigStapler on Sep 3, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions

The Daily Stache article...wow:

“It was a series in which most people thought the Mets had no chance of even competing in because of the contrast in styles of play, The Red Sox play hard and the right way, the Mets play the complete opposite.”

That’s funny, I thought the reason the Mets had no chance was because the Red Sox are a really good team, and the Mets aren’t. I didn’t realize it was because the Mets play the game soft and the wrong way. Interesting.

by cjmulrain on Sep 3, 2009 12:24 PM EDT reply actions

Curse such times we live in!

by TheBigStapler on Sep 3, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions

eh

it was awesome, regardless of the player. People still talk about Dave Mlicki’s masterpiece against the Yankees in ’97, and that was just as meaningless in the long run.

by cjmulrain on Sep 3, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions