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Nieuwenhuis, Glimmers of Hope, and a Pole..ahem...Poll!

No reflections or attempts at analysis here.  I'm just indulging in some feel-good non-analytical Nieuwenhuis love, one of the few pieces of good news this season and proceeding to convey how good the news of his emergence is.

Star-divide

 

I am stating the obvious, but as I said, this is more an expression of optimism than serious analysis. The emergence of Nieuwenhuis (I'm even excited about being able to spell his name from memory!) is especially great news for the Mets because now they actually have two candidates who stand a good chance of filling both their gaping outfield holes.  Before Nieuwenhuis started looking legit, their outfield was the thinnest part of their system, with only guys like Puello and Marte having long-shot chances of contributing beyond Fernando.  (Brahiam Maldonado is quietly starting to make himself interesting again.  He has a loooong way to go before being legit, but he could be one of those guys who just needed to develop some plate discipline to really turn a corner, and he might be in the process of doing just that.  It is not uncommon for this to take shape relatively late in someone's development, and if he has all the other tools, his poor station on the age-level curve might not be that much of a problem.)

The Mets now can afford to tread water with stopgaps in the corners for a year and see how these guys pan out, and I remain bullish on Fernando Martinez.  (Though there is more hope than thought at the prospect of him staying healthy.)  If N! can play a good center field (and I'm not advocating this, and am aware that it's becoming a tiresome subject) the notion of trading Beltran to get younger and cheaper (should he recover completely) becomes seriously viable.  He has two years remaining on his contract, which, while expensive, is more than fair, so I don't really buy into the idea of his contract rendering him unmovable.  Of course, this would require a extreme high-end outcome for Nieuwenhuis (essentially to be a credible replacement for the best center fielder in baseball) to be an option.  Also, it would be pursuing a long term strategy that is aimed for the years when Wright and Reyes hit their late 20s/early 30s, so the slightest delay would be risky.  So I fully acknowledge that it is far more likely to be the wrong move than the right one.  (Hopefully this will be enough to avert too much criticism for bringing out the Beltran saw!)

Nieuwenhuis strikes out too much, but he walks just enough that a merely moderate decrease in his strikeout totals would be enough to truly mitigate that liability.  His contact rates (another weakness) have exploded to the tune of  an approximate 35 point jump in batting average in about 100 PAs, which is astounding.  And he is in the midst of showcasing power that is downright elite.  He cannot possibly stay this hot (Albert Pujols probably couldn't even in AA) but how much of this is for real will be truly something to closely watch.

So here's hoping for yet another glimmer of hope.  We do have faint lights in all corners (and some bright ones) from the starting rotation (an upside of dominance to effectiveness  from Santana, Mejia, Holt, Pelfrey, and Niese) to the right side of the infield (Davis/Evans--we have some insurance in case Ike can't overcome his splits--Havens, and Tejada--you know what? showing only moderately less power and far more patience than Fernando did at the age of 19 in the same league doesn't scare me one bit from a slick middle infielder--to the left half of the infield--Wright and Reyes are entering their primes, but they still have a long way to go--to the aformentioned outfield, to the bullpen (Rustich and Moviel, and they have upside as starters as well) and even a lottery ticket with Thole, and enough cash to supplement those lights that fizzle out or max out as backups (a strong possibility for Thole particularly).

Does this constitute the makings of a glorious future?  Of course not.  Aside from Mejia, all these guys are good candidates to bust and thinking that all of your prospects from your As to your B- guys become strong major leaguers is laughable.  But the bad luck can't continue forever--outside of Chicago.  I'm confident that a decent portion (read: 2-4) of these guys will become viable major leaguers, and that's grounds for some solace in an organization that is otherwise perpetually on the brink of a truly devastating, franchise-crippling mistake.

And speaking of our prospect odds, here's a poll far y'all

Poll
What is the best approximation of the order--from greatest to least--of our prospects' likelihood of having some success (not necessarily great success) in the majors and not busting? (To avoid the necessity of 1000 permutations, I'm only listing 4 playe
Niese/Mejia/Holt/Fernando
4 votes
Niese/Mejia/Fernando/Holt
10 votes
Mejia/Niese/Holt/Fernando
6 votes
Mejia/Niese/Fernando/Holt
7 votes
Fernando/Niese/Mejia/Holt
15 votes
Fernando/Mejia/Niese/Holt
3 votes
Fernando/Mejia/Holt/Niese
5 votes
None of these are even close
4 votes

54 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost was contributed by a member of the community and was not subject to any vetting or approval process. It does not necessarily reflect the opinions, reasoning skills, or attention to grammar and usage rules held by the editors of this site.

Comment 27 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Hmmm

I think you’re over-estimating the likelihood of Mejia becoming a viable big leaguer. I think he has the potential to be more valuable than anyone in the system, but there’s still a lot that can go wrong with him. He hasn’t really been stretched out, his still at just 89 IP this year, and that’s already 18 more IP than his previous career high. Its great that he’s in Double-A already and putting up pretty peripheral rates and has a K/BB over 2.00, but there’s a long, long way to go before we find out what he can really do over a full season.

If I’m understanding correctly, and you’re asking who has the best chance of being an MLB regular (not necessarily a star, but not with the possibility of flaming out as a backup, as you implied with Thole), I think I’d honestly have to go Niese/Fernando/Holt/Mejia. Niese looks ready to be a regular already, assuming the injury doesn’t take any of his progress away. Fernando’s not far off, and though there’s bust potential still due to concerns ranging from health to pitch selection, any kind of improvement in one of those two departments should make him a viable major league starter in the near future.

Between Mejia and Holt its really close, I just feel Holt could be a contributing reliever in the very near future, while Mejia is going to require a bit more of a delicate touch in how he’s handled moving forward.

Also, though I know he’s not in question here, Havens still deserves some love. I know everyone’s crazy about Ike Davis, but I still temper my expectations with him. I think there’s a better than 50% chance that by next ASB, we’re all calling Havens the better prospect again. I’m worried that Davis is going to have some trouble in Triple-A, while there’s a really good chance that on a promotion, Havens won’t miss a beat, and his BABIP will level off (in a good way). I still think Davis is our first baseman of the future, and having Nick Evans as platoon support is the ideal situation, but there’s a chance he’s still a bit further away than his Double-A batting line suggests, and in the end, I’m still not sure what Davis’ upside is. I don’t think he has the star potential of a lot of the other Top 10 prospects.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Sep 3, 2009 3:35 PM EDT reply actions  

I agree with the non-star potential thing with Davis.

However, before, I was expecting his outcome to be around that of an Adam LaRoche or Lyle Overbay. I think at this point, though, he’s earned something more along the lines of somewhere in the realm of Carlos Pena or Justin Morneau. A good first baseman, but not a superstar.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Sep 3, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Morneau and Pena would be more towards the star side

Although Pena is an awkward example because of his career track. I can’t think of a specific player but I think something along the lines of Adam Laroche, probably better, is a fair expectation.

by Gina on Sep 3, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

A left handed Derrek Lee

Ignoring Lee’s insane 2005 season, I think he could be roughly a LH version of Lee. Really that would be an above average 1B, maybe bordering on star even. Not an all-star, but a guy who I think will hit 25 HR and fit OK somewhere in the middle of the lineup, without being the main guy there.

by acerimusdux on Sep 3, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's fair.

But WAR wise, Morneau and Pena are about the same level as Lee.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Sep 3, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good point

Yeah, aside from Pena’s 6.2 WAR in 2007, he’s pretty much a 3.5 WAR type lately, as is Morneau over the last 4 seasons. That’s about what I meant I guess. I kind of like the Morneau comp, as a big lefty. Davis will probably strike out a bit more (one thing that was more similar to Lee), but overall it looks like you might get about a similar result. Morneau was in pro ball from age 18, so got to AA a year younger, but was .298/.356/.474 at age 22, and .282/.352/.526 at age 23. Davis is at .298/.381/.524 this year, striking out more than Morneau did, but also with more walks and extra base hits. A 3-3.5 WAR would be nice.

by acerimusdux on Sep 3, 2009 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

By the way

If anyone wants me to do this poll one-by-one as Meddler did with the general prospect rankings, I’ll be glad to oblige. Meddler interpreted me correctly. It’s basically a poll on who is least likely to bust and be a somewhat valuable player.

I can’t go with Holt over Mejia yet though. Mejia has not had serious injury concerns and at the age of 19 has better secondary stuff than Holt. His changeup is plus by multiple accounts. I can’t be concerned with a 19-yr.-old not pitching 140 innings, as that’s just maturation. I might be concerned that stamina might have been an issue after only 70 innings, since he really petered out at the end. But he was coming off injury and damned if again he was in AA at age 19.

Nothing can get by him; especially in a small room: Mike Francessa

by GenJackRipper on Sep 3, 2009 3:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Also

Mejia’s upside does contribute to this. He has a serious chance to be a dominant guy. That kind of potential combined with the relative lack of injury concerns (scouts have marveled at the ease of his delivery) to me translates into a very good chance to at least be average.

Nothing can get by him; especially in a small room: Mike Francessa

by GenJackRipper on Sep 3, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fair enough

Like I said, I think its pretty damn close, and I agree with your sentiment that there’s nothing shocking or out of the ordinary about Mejia’s lack of innings depth, its just maturation, as you said. So its a question of balancing these two fairly abstract concepts of true potential and possible attrition. There’s no question in my mind that Mejia could be the best pitcher the Mets have developed internally in a very, very long time. The concern is just more about the disconnect between how long that’s going to take to come true and where we are now. Holt might not have that upside, but I do believe he could be the 2nd or 3rd best reliever on the club by the end of next year, if the Mets chose to go that route (which I am not in favor of).

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Sep 3, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree that at this point Meija looks to have the higher ceiling

but he’s so far away who knows what will happen, TNSTAAPP comes to mind when I look at Meija where as with Holt I can’t imagine he won’t at least end up in someones bullpen.

by Gina on Sep 3, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fernando first

I have to go with Fernado first. It just seems much easier to project hitting, and a 20 year old who tears up AAA, and has decent tools and a nice swing, is pretty near to a sure thing. Niese looks about ready now, and a pretty safe bet for a pitcher, but there’s just so much that can go wrong with pitching prospects, lose just a bit of velocity, lose a bit of command, and they fall apart. Niese is second for me. Finally, Mejia already seems more polished with better command than Holt. Even if he always struggles to command the curve, he ends up having some use, maybe as a Fernando Nieve type. Holt isn’t really getting it done yet in AA, he seems to have the greatest bust potential.

by acerimusdux on Sep 3, 2009 5:58 PM EDT reply actions  

nicknames

count me out of the ‘first letter+!’ nickname fad for mets prospects

thats as bad as the ‘blank-Rod’ fad of the early 2000’s

by Rob Castellano on Sep 3, 2009 7:05 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

People started that with Nieuwenhuis

because it is just annoying spelling his whole name out every time.

"It's like the old phrase goes.....The balls in your court now Mr.Church, so you take that ball, you dribble it up the court and....................................... get a layup"
- Keith Hernandez

by nrmax88 on Sep 3, 2009 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

I’m sick of the “letter +” nickname. So boring.

"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Sep 3, 2009 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Me three.

It’s lazy and uncreative. The only guy it’s ever really worked for is Curtis Joseph. It’s still not as bad as the initials nickname that’s permeating basketball (KG, AI, etc).

by BobbyV_Incognito on Sep 3, 2009 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, CuJo was a pretty rad nickname.

But that is so rare.

"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Sep 3, 2009 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

With Nieuwenhuis it's different

It’s more of a parody because his name is so damn annoying to spell, as nrmax said. Furthermore, I think the exclamation mark is mainly a Met thing and a Met internet thing to boot.

Would you prefer (shrudder) Captain Kirk?

Nothing can get by him; especially in a small room: Mike Francessa

by GenJackRipper on Sep 4, 2009 6:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Actually...I think I like that.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Sep 4, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

CapN

We’ve taken to calling him CapN at MetsGeek.

Plus, I love Cap Anson. How could you not? 27 seasons of grit!!!!!

by DannyMetsGeek on Sep 4, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

CapN Kirk?

I could sign up for that.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Sep 4, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Make it so

Sorry, that’s Picard.

We could just attenuate this and make him The Negotiator, or TJ Hooker.

Never mind.

by wobatus on Sep 4, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wasn't complaining about Nieuwenhuis, actually

I was just agreeing with the ‘letter+abbreviated last name’ trend making for lousy nicknames. Although CapN Kirk has promise.

by BobbyV_Incognito on Sep 4, 2009 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ike's splits

He is up to .268/.342/.465 in AA against lefties. Hardly awful.

He does still have some k issues. But Ike had a higher walk rate and a lower k rate in single A this year than Captain Kirk. (12.3/23.4% to 9.9/24.5%). His k rate did spike to 29% in AA, although his power also spiked.

Admittedly from Kirk it is coming from a possible cf not 1B, but Ike has had a pretty damn good year.

I happen to agree that havens may end up the better player. He looks better park league and luck adjusted, but I can’t give him higher marks yet than a guy who is doing so well at a higher level. And speaking of splits, Reese is .229/.370/.344 against lefties. So while he walks he may have some power issues there.

I have a suspicion by this time next year Meds will be right, we’ll flip them again, but until then I would go with Ike. Close call.

by wobatus on Sep 4, 2009 12:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Agreed

If I had to grade them both right now, I’d give Davis the slight edge, but I’m wary. Its not the platoon split I’m so much worried about, more his issues with contact in Double-A and curiosity as to where his power caps off. I mean, if they both keep their walk rates at similar levels, but Havens is putting the ball in play at a greater rate and hitting 15-20 homers per year out of second base, and Davis is whiffing a ton and hitting 25-30 homers per year out of first base, one of those players is a borderline superstar and one isn’t.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Sep 4, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed on Ike's splits.

People kept saying, “Well Davis still isn’t that good, and he’ll only be a platoon player, since he can’t hit lefties.” And people such as Meddler consistently said, “Sure, but you can’t say that for certain because of sample sizes”. And wow, look at that.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Sep 4, 2009 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right, now all he has to do is cut the K rate

and the Ike haters will have nothing but crow on their table

Nothing can get by him; especially in a small room: Mike Francessa

by GenJackRipper on Sep 5, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

At least he's improved his walk rate this year too.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Sep 5, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

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