Jay Feely Applesauce - Olerud's HOF case, Met managers, Chapman a Red
by Joe Budd on Jan 11, 2010 9:04 AM EST
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Bring on the Chargers. Oh yeah, and there's some baseball stuff too. A lot in fact.
Meet the Mets
A lot of scattered Met stories, so I'll start with the ones about our shiny new toy. Patrick Flood is coming around on the idea of Jason Bay in left field. While the Onion throws some cold water on our enthusiasm.
Will Davidian takes on what's left to do this offseason for Omar.
David Wright admits that he was rarely comfortable in the batter's box last season, but offers no excuses.
Toby Hyde takes a look at BABIP across the professional baseball landscape.
Jack Moore goes one further than James and says that John Olerud IS worthy of the Hall of Fame.
Gary, Keith, and Ron have selected East Harlem's The Nourishing Kitchen as this year's charity of choice.
The Mets have re-signed Andy Green. I really hope that this story never becomes relevant.
Metsradamus highlights some of the Met managers featured in Evaluating Baseball Managers.
Around the NL East
The Marlins are back to playing in plain old Dolphin Stadium.
Washington is showing interest in bringing in super defensive outfielder Randy Winn.
It has been a while since I've actually paid attention to hating the Braves. This song is actually not terrible and made me smile a bit about how great that rivalry was.
Around MLB
Aroldis Chapman has moved from Communist Cuba to the Reds. Go figure. The most important thing about this, though, is that it makes Scott Boras look bad.
A World Series and a marriage in one year. Not bad, Jeter.
The Pirates are close to signing Ryan Church. Poor Ryan.
The Yankees are taking a long look at Jerry Hairston. That would be a pretty savvy pickup.
Now that Vladimir is off the market, what does that mean for Jermaine Dye's free agency?
The Cubs are talking with San Diego about acquiring Heath Bell. Carlos Marmol would again be relegated to setup duty.
Contract negotiations between Felix Hernandez and Seattle are picking up.
San Francisco continues to pick up old veterans. This time Aubrey Huff.
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That Jeter story is pretty thinly sourced
It’s probably Doug Jeter of Mineola.
There’s still hope, single guys…
freakin' Jeter
As the Tiger Woods scandal was breaking, I was cursing Jeter for having never gotten married, and thus never having had a chance for a gigantic cheating scandal.
And yes, my irrational hatred for Captain The Face of Baseball knows no bounds….
Somehow, a chain of events unfolded that put Steve Phillips in a professional broadcast booth Sunday night so he could rip Carlos Beltran. Try to explain that in any other terms.
by Greenpoint Ian on Jan 11, 2010 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
We're all hoping he pulls a Tiger
Mostly so I can be there to comfort Minka afterward, but I’d like to see everyone hate Jeter for a change too.
The Mets lobby Omar for a plan, and his plan, he likes his plan. The problem is that he didn't write his plan down 'cause that makes it paperwork, and that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?
The only criticism of Minka one can have
is her choice of boyfriends.
The Mets lobby Omar for a plan, and his plan, he likes his plan. The problem is that he didn't write his plan down 'cause that makes it paperwork, and that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?
by Evan_S on Jan 11, 2010 8:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
In real life
Or in Friday Night Lights?
"You know I am only teasing. I love you gals out there -- always have." - Keith Hernandez
Minka Kelly is super hot
also, has any stadium or even any building ever undergone more name changes than Dolphins/Pro Player/Dolphins/Joe Robbie/Dolphins/Land Shark/Dolphins Stadium?
2009 Did Not Happen
That reminds of Steinbrenner's rant on Seinfeld
You know as painful as it is I had to let a few people go over the years. Yogi Berra, Lou Piniella, Bucky Dent, Billy Martin, Dallas Green, Dick Houser, Bill Virdon, Billy Martin, Stump Merrill, Billy Martin, Bob Lemon, Billy Martin, Gene Michael, Buck Showalter.
The Mets lobby Omar for a plan, and his plan, he likes his plan. The problem is that he didn't write his plan down 'cause that makes it paperwork, and that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?
Jermaine Dye is going to be a met isn't he
I feel like the planets are aligning towards it =/
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
The Onion
This doesn’t have to do with the Mets as much as grission…but it’s pretty spot on: http://www.theonion.com/content/news/everyone_at_hospital_already_hates
by pricedoutoftheciti on Jan 11, 2010 10:08 AM EST reply actions
I died at this part
As of press time, Welker had not made a single friend at Massachusetts General. Although the wideout’s attitude has been celebrated by sportswriters and fans alike as scrappy and overachieving, hospital personnel have described him as “exhausting,” “intolerable,” and “the most infuriating little cocksucker ever to walk God’s green earth.”
but I think we baseball fans know players with real grission wouldn’t have even told his team about the torn acl/mcl. He’d be out there still competing.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Olerud for Hall of Fame??????
The real problem I have with that, is that it has nothing to do with the fact he left the Mets…
On the contrary, his contributions were appreciated, but it was time to move on. Okay,
comparing Olerud to Dawson is ridiculous…Why? Because Dawson was one of the two-or-three best players in his era, while Olerud was a very good player in his era….
there are dozens of players similar to Olerud that played from the early to mid nineties
until very recently……Dawson (1) MVP, 2 runner up-MVPS.. .8 gold gloves and 8 All Star
selections, while Olerud had some good years and honors —-in no way is he or should
he be considered to HoF enshrinement.
Didn't we go over how the award thing is bullshit.
Dawson is probably the least deserving MVP of all time, there were at least 6 or 7 guys who were much better in 87 and a ton more who were just better. They make mistakes all the time when voting for award, Rollin’s MVP, Howard’s MVP, Jeter’s gold gloves, Wright’s gold gloves, Palmiero’s gold glove when he only played 20 something games at first base, and about a million more. And there were few great players during Dawson’s era which makes him standout more. He’s a borderline Hall of Famer, but he’s not an all time great player.
The Mets lobby Omar for a plan, and his plan, he likes his plan. The problem is that he didn't write his plan down 'cause that makes it paperwork, and that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?
Yes.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 11, 2010 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
Personally, Tony Gwynn.
How you can bat .370, and have an OBP of .447 (That’s almost .500, meaning every other at-bat, he was on base!), and receive so few votes boggles the mind. He didn’t have the power numbers, but his stats combined add up to a whopping 8.1 WAR for the season, as opposed to Dawson’s 2.7- admittedly, though that 2.7 number looks very suspicious.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 11, 2010 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
Tony Gwynn was a better baseball player than Dawson, but in 1987 T. Gwynn had
7 home runs and 54 rbi…compared to…49 home runs and 137 rbi….significantly different players….370 ba v .287 ba……..
That’s only ……one (1) player…..Evan_S said 6-7 players…..so the argument goes on….on base versus power……I always liked T. Gwynn and by 1990 there were rumblings about the Mets getting him via a trade or fa, but he was a Padre for life……………….
RsBI is a useless stat in player evaluation
it is entirely dependent on the players who bat in front of you.
The Mets lobby Omar for a plan, and his plan, he likes his plan. The problem is that he didn't write his plan down 'cause that makes it paperwork, and that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?
by Evan_S on Jan 11, 2010 6:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You know, I'm really tired of you writing this
I wish people would just read this piece of information once and understand and move along. It feels like a broken record at this point. Hats off to you for being consistent about it, Evan.
If there's ever a riot at Citi Field and Oliver Perez was the starter, I started the riot.
That logic doesn't follow.
Primarily, RBIs are dependent on people getting ahead of you on base. How is it indicative of a player if the people batting in front of him in the line-up aren’t proficient on getting on base? Two guys can both hit .300 with 25 home runs. One will have 70 RBI, and the other will have 90 RBI. Is the guy with 75 RBI in anyway more talented?
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 12, 2010 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
Raines, Strawberry, Jack Clark, Tony Gwynn
Andre Dawson- .378 wOBA
Tim Raines- .419 wOBA
Darryl Strawberry- .415 wOBA
Tony Gwynn- .419 wOBA
Jack Clark- .443 wOBA
Eric Davis- .433 wOBA
Dale Murphy- .415 wOBA
Pedro Guerrero-. 402 wOBA
Those are just the guys whose wOBA were over .400. Schmidt was .394, Will Clark and Tim Wallach were both higher than Dawson as well. When you factor in defense, Dawson had a bad year so a guy like Ozzie Smith become much more valuable (7.1 WAR for Smith to 2.7 for Dawson). Even Vince Coleman was worth more that season, 3.2 to 2.7.
I went with wOBA, because Dawson’s value that year came offensively, he was a below averag right fielder that year.
The Mets lobby Omar for a plan, and his plan, he likes his plan. The problem is that he didn't write his plan down 'cause that makes it paperwork, and that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?
look at the power numbers homer runs and rbi that's why he was selected as MVP
plus he played on the last place CUBS…enough said…
Just because that's what was looked at doesn't mean they were correct.
He wasn’t as good, in 1987, as at least the 12 players I named there and probably a whole bunch more. Just because he was elected MVP doesn’t mean he should have been, so how can we use that to defend someone’s Hall of Fame case? If Yuniesky Betancourt wins the next 10 MVPs, while maintaining similar production as the last few seasons, does that make him the best player in baseball?
The Mets lobby Omar for a plan, and his plan, he likes his plan. The problem is that he didn't write his plan down 'cause that makes it paperwork, and that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?
Oh, so now we can judge them for being wrong...how about if (we're)
wrong now and correct back then. No one ever struck 200 times in one year for 100 plus
years and now ten players challange that mark…..and plus why we just don’t move fences back about 50 feet at Citifield and other parks…plus raise the mound back to the 1960’s level…
As I said below
The newer stats adjust for these changes in era.
The Mets lobby Omar for a plan, and his plan, he likes his plan. The problem is that he didn't write his plan down 'cause that makes it paperwork, and that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?
Yet Eric Davis was an 8 win player
and Dawson only 2.7
The Mets lobby Omar for a plan, and his plan, he likes his plan. The problem is that he didn't write his plan down 'cause that makes it paperwork, and that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?
Except that no
Dawson was not actually one of the two or three best players of his era. Using a popular criticism of Bert Blyleven, Dawson generally even the best player on his own team. Based on baseballprojection.com WAR:
1977: Gary Carter
1978: Carter, Ellis Valentine
1979: Carter, Larry Parrish
1980-81: Dawson
1982: Carter
1983: Carter
1984: Carter, Tim Raines
1985: Raines, Tim Wallach, Vance Law
1986: Raines, Hubie Brooks, Mitch Webster
1987-88: Dawson
1989: Ryne Sandberg, Shawon Dunston, Dwight Smith, Mark Grace
1990: Sandberg, Grace
1991: Sandberg
1992: Sandberg, Grace
And 1992 was the last season Dawson was worth positive WAR. Now, don’t get me wrong, being overshadowed by two Hall-of-Famers (Carter, Sandberg) and another guy who should be in there (Raines) isn’t the worst thing in the world, but calling Dawson one of the best handful of players in his era is ridiculous. Those three guys would beg to differ, plus Gwynn and Boggs and Dale Murphy and Eddie Murray and Rickey Henderson and a ton of others.
Folks, back in the good old days on base percentage and OPS were not as valued as it
has become today mainly due to the sabermetric community and fantasy leagues. LOW
strike out rate, put the ball in play and play sound fundementally was preferred.
fantasy leagues?
most fantasy leagues only use stats like avg, rbis and hrs, so wouldn’t it be the opposite? that’d they’d be overvalued due to fantasy leagues?
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Also they're valued now
because teams realized the fewer outs you make the more runs you score and the more wins you get.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
,,,
so you’d rather him ground into double plays? also thats why you look at obp, to see how many outs a player actually made, even with 140 strike outs David Wright made way fewer outs than most of the rest of baseball and everyone else on the team.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Back in the "good old days", women couldn't vote, either.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 11, 2010 9:22 PM EST up reply actions
Just saying.
I hate that kind of rationale, with baseball, or with anything.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 11, 2010 9:25 PM EST up reply actions
I was gonna make a similar comparison
but didn’t want to offend anyone by comparing baseball to stuff normal people consider more important.
The Mets lobby Omar for a plan, and his plan, he likes his plan. The problem is that he didn't write his plan down 'cause that makes it paperwork, and that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?
Ugh, that's another thing I hate- 'Just because something isn't important, or isn't real, or whatever, we don't have to use the same standards as we do with things that are important, or things that are real.'
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 11, 2010 10:30 PM EST up reply actions
Tony Perez who was on the BIG RED MACHINE
was elected to the HoF mainly due to his high home run and rbi numbers while playing on a champioship club……and longevity…..for that period those were very good numbers…..Please stop comparing numbers today with numbers back in th olden days (pre-steroids) thanks for coming clean Mr. McGwire……you too A-Fraud……look at home runs hit in the AL in 2008 and 2009, 37 in 2008 won hr crown, and 39 for 2 players in 2009……in the higher which happens….
wOBA is a stat that is adjusted for era
a player who had a .400 wOBA in 1935 is just as valuable as a player who has a .400 wOBA today. It wasn’t available back then but it is today and the voters should utilize these tools in their process when voting for the hall. You can make a very legitimate case for Dawson using these numbers. He was a very good player for a long time. I’d probably have voted for him after Blyleven, Alomar, Larkin, Raines, Martinez, Trammell, and McGwire got in.
The Mets lobby Omar for a plan, and his plan, he likes his plan. The problem is that he didn't write his plan down 'cause that makes it paperwork, and that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?
He's not comparing todays numbers to numbers back then
he’s comparing numbers back then, to other numbers back then.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
yes, true, but taking OBA and applying to back then, which was'nt as valued as other
factors, such as: low strike out rate, contact, and defense….this is revisionist history…comparing players OPS, OBA, FIP, and other measures which were
not valued or invented does’nt make it right or wrong….today’s measurement
standards had no bearing on baseball for 100 plus years…..so for 100 years
the measuring of ballplayers was flawed…..okay that’s your opinion…it is what it is
plain and simple…
it was
just like for hundreds of years medical practices were flawed. progression happens
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Pitchers used PEDs too
The Mets lobby Omar for a plan, and his plan, he likes his plan. The problem is that he didn't write his plan down 'cause that makes it paperwork, and that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?
Like Evan_S said
most reports have said the majority of the use was among pitchers.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Let's compare Carlos Beltran to Adrian Beltre: Who's the better player?
Beltre: 6877 ABs 1700 hits 348 dbls 250 hrs 1084 strike outs .270 ba
Beltran: 6877 ABs 1705 hits 340 dbls 273 hrs 1086 strike outs .283 ba
Let's compare Carlos Beltran to Adrian Beltre: Who's the better player (This time using meaningful stats)
Beltre: 6877 PA, .270/.325/.453/.779, .183 ISO, .335 wOBA, 250 HRs, 348 2Bs, 26 3Bs, 111 SB/38 CS (74.5%), 107 wRC+
Beltran: 6877 PA, .283/.360/.496/.856, .214 ISO, .372 wOBA, 273 HRs, 340 2Bs, 64 3Bs, 286 SB/38 CS (88.3%), 126 wRC+
I’d say Beltran is the better offensive player by a considerable amount.
The Mets lobby Omar for a plan, and his plan, he likes his plan. The problem is that he didn't write his plan down 'cause that makes it paperwork, and that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?
Yes, plus the question was "who's the better player"
which requires accounting for the difference between a (great) CF and a 3B.
"I've been trying transcendental meditation, and that helps me be passive and wait on the curve. I've got to find something else to hit the slider." - George (The Stork) Theodore
Beltre's a great third baseman though
Better than Beltran is in center
The Mets lobby Omar for a plan, and his plan, he likes his plan. The problem is that he didn't write his plan down 'cause that makes it paperwork, and that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?
But CF is considered a more difficult position to play
You can live with a bad fielding 3B if he hits enough; you need a glove in CF
"I've been trying transcendental meditation, and that helps me be passive and wait on the curve. I've got to find something else to hit the slider." - George (The Stork) Theodore
It's actually not by WAR
I believe it has the same positional adjustment as 2nd, and 3rd
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Sorry
I started looking at the advanced stats explanation pages and still need to study up.
"I've been trying transcendental meditation, and that helps me be passive and wait on the curve. I've got to find something else to hit the slider." - George (The Stork) Theodore
Beltran knows Marc Anthony, who knows Jennifer Lopez. Can Adrian Beltre say the same?
Carlos Beltran 1, Adrian Beltre, 0.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 11, 2010 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
Carlos Beltran is still 1 point ahead of Beltre, be that as it may.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 12, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
Um, those numbers don't check out
Beltre’s batting average would be .247
Beltran’s batting average would be .248
I believe you have confused ABs with PAs.
If there's ever a riot at Citi Field and Oliver Perez was the starter, I started the riot.
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