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Around SBN: Four TCU Football Players Among 17 Arrested In Drug Ring

Where We Are Now

When "Mark McGwire did steroids" constitutes breaking and shocking news, clearly nothing is going on. And while I promise I'm working on more interesting content, this lull in the offseason seems like a convenient opportunity to take stock of the 2010 Mets to date, and places where the roster carries room for improvement and potential holes. Below is the excel document I keep open all offseason--nothing too scientific, just rough, conservative estimates of hitter and pitcher WAR.

Wartodate_medium

So, that's 83 wins. Now choose your own adventure, with my WAR estimates.

Ways to improve:

Ways to get worse:

  • Jose Reyes' legs never fully recovers -3 Wins
  • David Wright repeats his poor '09 -2 Wins
  • Beltran or Bay's knees go out -1 Wins
  • Luis Castillo falls off the cliff -1.5 Win
  • Sign Bengie Molina
  • John Maine's sits out the year with injuries -1 Win
  • Pelfrey's yips -1 Win
  • Jerry Manuel -2 Wins
  • Classic Omar Minaya in-season management -2 Wins

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We're about breaking even, hopefully

Improvements:
Reyes makes a full recovery + 1
Oliver Perez “comes back” (to a degree; it’s hard to do much worse) +/- 1.5
Davis Wright is back + 1

Regressions:
Luis Castillo falls off of the cliff – 1.5
Jerry Manuel -2

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 12, 2010 11:06 AM EST reply actions  

lol @ Jerry Manuel -2

with no further explanation needed

You don't cheer for the Mets. You drink for the Mets.

by Kevin H on Jan 12, 2010 11:11 AM EST reply actions  

I have faith in Pelfrey, Maine, Niese as well as Perez to a lesser extent

I like where Maine’s fastball was pre and post DL stint and I had him a sleeper going into the season thinking he was healthy. I think he’ll put up his weighted three year regression of 1.1 WAR in limited innings. I’m also confident in Pelfrey “reestablishing” himself, although Fangraphs fan projection of a 3.6 WAR seems a bit too optimistic. Jonathan Niese’s CHONE projection of 132 innings and a 4.23 FIP is pretty. And Ollie will you know…umm…hey did you guys notice that the Fangraphs fan projection has Ollie projected to have a .388 BABIP. Nuts.

Lastly, RA Dickey is going to have a 4 WAR season while maintaining his .400 career batting average.

the number one issue facing the Mets is finding that one guy who’s going to say "get on my shoulders and ride me to the championship."

by Sokojoe on Jan 12, 2010 11:20 AM EST reply actions  

I can see liking Maine's fastball

but I don’t think his stuff is the concern so much as whether he can stay off the DL, he throws a lot of pitches an inning and supposedly there’s be something about his motion that makes him an injury risk.

"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'

it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.

by Gina on Jan 12, 2010 11:33 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh, I don't think he'll be able to stay off the DL.

But I think that kind of works for this team. Optimisitcally, I’ll say that Johan and Pelfrey throw 400 innings combined. I hope we get Pineiro and like the CHONE projection of 169 innings. Also using CHONE, figure Maine, Niese, and Perez, due to their injury concerns pitch 123, 132 and 128 respectivley. This gives us a total of 952 inning which works out perfectly since the average amount of innings pitched by starters per team were 942 in 2009.

Now, obviously, this assumes a perfect situation where each starter takes “turns” being injured, but nevertheless, I guess my point is that I’m optimisitic about Maine since his fastball speed indicates to me that there is nothing strucally wrong with him and he’s been a pretty decent pitcher even when pitching hurt. That being said, I think he’ll spend time on the DL with arm fatigue or maybe something more serious. Still, due to his fastball and that he came back to pitch at the end of last season, I can see him putting up 123 innings of 4.4 FIP ball which would be worth roughly 1.23 WAR.

the number one issue facing the Mets is finding that one guy who’s going to say "get on my shoulders and ride me to the championship."

by Sokojoe on Jan 12, 2010 11:55 AM EST up reply actions  

You do know that between them Santana, Pelfrey, Maine, Perez and Niese

pitched all of 542 innings last year?

To expect that to bump to 952 even with Pineiro’s hypothetical contribution seems markedly optimistic (iow, it ain’t happening). It would be optimistic to think that two out of three of them would hit the targets you mentioned.

Also, the number of starters per team throwing the 942 innings you mentioned probably averages upwards of eight. It would be rare for a team to get that many innings from as few as six starters.

by SeanSchirmer on Jan 12, 2010 10:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Right,

I think that’s all pretty self evident. I said my situation assumes a perfect situation but besides my off hand comment of saying Santana and Pelf will get 400 innings, the rest is based on CHONE projections which uses regression and I think are a pretty good basis for explaining why I think 120 innings of Maine would be valuable to on a team that doesn’t have five guys that are going to throw 160+ innings. The actual number of pitchers used and innings wasn’t really the point as I stated above, “I guess my point is that I’m optimisitic about Maine …[to be] worth roughly 1.23 WAR.”

However, now you have me interested in your point that the CHONE projections are faulty by overestimating the amount of innings the Mets will throw. Let’s take a case by case basis:
Santana 2008 163 innings – What I said 200… 37+
Pelfrey 2008 184 – What I said 200… 16+
Maine 2008 89 inc minors – CHONE 123… 34+
Perez 2008 83 inc minors – CHONE 128… 45+
Niese 2008 120 inc minors – CHONE 132…12+
Pinerio 2008 217 – CHONE 169…-48

Total 2008 856 – Projected-ish 952… or a 96 increase over the previous year. I’m not saying this projections are right as there’s a good chance something like 08 can happen all over again, but I’m curious why “iow it ain’t happening” which inning increase/decrease do you is unreasonable? (Just to be clear, since the internet can sometimes make things seem like a challenge or snakry, I’m sincere that I’m curious as to your answer.)

the number one issue facing the Mets is finding that one guy who’s going to say "get on my shoulders and ride me to the championship."

by Sokojoe on Jan 12, 2010 11:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Purely mathematical projection systems are terrible for predicting playing time, btw.

They can’t distinguish between injuries to a pitcher’s pitching elbow (more likely to recur) versus a one time acl tear that can be fully repaired through arthoscopic surgery. They don’t distinguish between injuries that knocked a pitcher out for the first half of the season as against the second half of a season, clearly a problem since if you’re hoping for a good performance the year after an injury you’d much, much rather have a pitcher who was hurt in the first half of the season, came back, and threw 100 solid innings than one who threw well then got hurt at the all star break and didn’t throw after that. The first pitcher is probably fine. The second may never pitch again, for all you know. Any system that doesn’t take that kind of thing into account can’t be worth the electrons it’s printed on. CHONE doesn’t look at medical reports, MRIs, and so on. It has essentially no value when it comes to predicting playing time for injured pitchers.

What I believe is entirely unrealistic is that all three of Maine, Perez, and Niese are going to come back and not only pitch around 128 innings each in the majors (which none of them did in 2009), but pitch effectively enough to stay in the rotation with an ERA no worse than 4.50 (and above which you’d have to think seriously about slotting in Figueroa). I have to think, given their serious injuries/disastrous performances, and very limited or extremely erratic track records, none of them is as good as 50-50 to throw 125 innings with an ERA 4.50 or better. That means as a group they’re at best one in eight to give an adequate (and nowhere near good) performance. Next, getting decent performance from only two of them is a one in four proposition. Another thing you may not be giving enough weight to is that none of the three have any real upside in 2010. None of them is going to put up an ERA of 3.80 in 180 innings. So what you’re hoping for is mediocrity. That’s your upside,and you’d be lucky to get even that.

It makes a lot of sense to me to try Maine, Niese and Perez as 5th starters or in the cases of Maine and Niese, in long relief while we find out if Perez is ever going to be a productive pitcher again. Counting on them for nearly 400 innings of respectable pitching is begging for trouble. There’s no way a big market team should be going into a season with two complete question marks in the rotation on top of its best starter coming off his second pitching elbow injury and a new acquisition who just had a lucky year, and never mind the guy with the 5.03 ERA whose true talent level is probably league average, if we’re fortunate.

by SeanSchirmer on Jan 13, 2010 4:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Hmm...

I don’t think we’re really arguing the same points, such as your statement that “thing you may not be giving enough weight to is that none of the three have any real upside in 2010… So what you’re hoping for is mediocrity” and such. I’m not feeling very optimistic about our pitching rotation nor do I think as long as we get Piniero, we’re set with pitchers. I just think Maine has a good chance of putting up a 1.1 WAR.

Even so, while I know CHONE doesn’t take into account MRIs and medical reports, neither can we as everyday fans. So, the best we can do is use the information at hand and I believe using CHONE is a basis is a good start. Then we can the limited information on hand to adjust as need be. Clearly, you feel the information at hand dictates that Maine, Niese and Perez will not be able to throw an average of 30 innings more each next year. I’m actual optimistic seeing how Maine threw in 4 limited starts to end last season and since his fastball was stable before his extended DL stint and after. It also made sense to me that his arm wasn’t up to shape after an offseason where the doc removed the biggest bone spurs the doctor ever saw. As for Perez, the fact that he’s working out so hard in Zona tells me that his recovery went well and it sounds like he should be ready for ST. And Niese doesn’t have an injury history but just got hurt on a freak play and allegedly will be ready by spring. Given these facts, I can see these pitchers being healthy enough to make the 20 starts necessary to reach the CHONE projected inning totals, if given the chance.

Obviously, you feel otherwise, which is fine, I’m all for discourse.

the number one issue facing the Mets is finding that one guy who’s going to say "get on my shoulders and ride me to the championship."

by Sokojoe on Jan 13, 2010 9:33 AM EST up reply actions  

There's plenty of good stuff in your posts, to be sure,

and I agree that any mathematical projection system such as CHONE needs as much additional input as we can give it when it comes to projecting playing time. It looks like I’m giving more weight to the need for starters who will pitch well rather than hoping that Maine will squeeze out 1 WAR or thereabouts. Of course, if you’re right and the last two spots in the rotation yield 3+ WAR (and we haven’t first given Ollie 20 starts with an ERA around 6.50 in order to find out that both Maine and Niese belong in the rotation), as long as the top three have good years by their standards we’re probably fine.

“Clearly, you feel the information at hand dictates that Maine, Niese and Perez will not be able to throw an average of 30 innings more each next year.” Well, that wasn’t quite my point. It wouldn’t surprise me if all 3 of them throw that many innings—it’s the number of runs they’ll give up in pitching those innings that I’m concerned about. But hey, we’ll know more by October.

Cheers

by SeanSchirmer on Jan 13, 2010 3:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Hes gotta stop going back to his alma matre

uncc for those coeds and alumni games. seriously the dudes seen down here in charlotte at least 10 times during the off season.

by the caveman on Jan 12, 2010 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

who gives a shit what he does

on his own time, during the offseason.

WHO DEY, WHO DEY, WHO DEY THINK GON' BEAT THEM BENGALS.... J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS.

by nrmax88 on Jan 12, 2010 8:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd feel a lot better about Pelfrey

if the Mets had something other than a croquet wicket manning the 2B position.

Oh, the butcher and the baker and the people on the street: wheredotheygo?!?!?

by CharlieH on Jan 12, 2010 2:47 PM EST up reply actions  

We need full time psychologists

for both Maine and Pelfrey.

"Never throw a slider to The Glider."

- Ed Charles, No. 5

by The Glider on Jan 12, 2010 6:06 PM EST up reply actions  

They're too busy with Ollie

"I've been trying transcendental meditation, and that helps me be passive and wait on the curve. I've got to find something else to hit the slider." - George (The Stork) Theodore

by StorkFan on Jan 12, 2010 9:23 PM EST up reply actions  

the likelihood that Reyes recovers to All - Star level is greater than David Wright being any good anymore.

Wright’s career is being sabatoged by Howard Johnson (a suspect for PED’s, yes him and Dykstra) and Citifield…..I hope this guy can turn it around otherwise, oh boy.

by 1969met on Jan 12, 2010 11:34 AM EST reply actions  

I blame Hojo for everything wrong with the world

that can’t be blamed on Razor Shines

"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'

it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.

by Gina on Jan 12, 2010 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree.

I just feel like knowing the type of player he is and the type of mentality he has, he really won’t let himself become that kind of player, no matter how hard he has to work…if that makes sense. It does in my head. I can’t explain it. And no, that doesn’t mean he will use steroids like you-know-who (I really can’t even stand to say his name for awhile).

by wrightttxgirlllx3 on Jan 12, 2010 2:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Alex Rodriguez,

world series champion, of the world? :)

WHO DEY, WHO DEY, WHO DEY THINK GON' BEAT THEM BENGALS.... J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS.

by nrmax88 on Jan 12, 2010 8:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Not who I was thinkimg of, but yes.

And who needs World Series rings. David has a big ass helmet. So yeah. Beat that.

by wrightttxgirlllx3 on Jan 12, 2010 10:21 PM EST up reply actions  

McGwire?

That was what I figured. Only reason I feel for him a little bit is because even during his 70 bomb season a lot of speculation was going on that he was using some sort of PED’s. I was like 10 at the time and I remember he has the lotion or cream next to his locker and all that, but nobody cared, because he and Sammy Sosa were pretty much saving baseball. Same thing to a certain extent with Bonds, I mean, attendance wasn’t an issue then but people loved the long ball and baseball thrived. Only years later did Selig and the rest of the people responsible for the steroid witch hunt launch all of these investigations. To wipe the egg off their own faces.

They stood by, smiled and watched this all happen when it was helping bring baseball back, when Big Mac and Sosa were selling out every stadium they showed up at, people hoping to see a long bomb or witness history. We saw McGwire in commercials, “chicks dig the long ball”, Sosa was a hero, with the whole “baseball been very very good to me” thing. Then when Selig didn’t need them anymore he crucified them.

WHO DEY, WHO DEY, WHO DEY THINK GON' BEAT THEM BENGALS.... J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS.

by nrmax88 on Jan 13, 2010 5:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't feel sorry for him, really.

During the summer of ‘98 i was turning, what…3? So maybe if I had gotten the chance to actually watch I would care more. Apparently everyone who watched at the time saw this coming. I’m just sick of athletes getting more media bull shit than they deserve. Some, sort of recent, examples include Brett Favre, Tiger Woods, etc. Well…I guess I can see people going crazy over Tiger…for a week. Enough’s enough. Just shut up, people. I’m done with this little rant now.

by wrightttxgirlllx3 on Jan 13, 2010 6:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Damn 3?

"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'

it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.

by Gina on Jan 13, 2010 6:40 PM EST up reply actions  

oh my God

we have a smart 14 year old on this website!
WIN!!!
(No offence, Metsguy234, but at times you have been a douche. YOu are now alright ever since you apologzied)

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Jan 13, 2010 6:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Haha thanks

But don’t worry. I’ll end up having my stupid moments soon enough.

by wrightttxgirlllx3 on Jan 13, 2010 9:39 PM EST up reply actions  

That's all I'm saying.

A friend of mine recently lost his job for smoking pot and getting randomly tested. This is about 2-3 months ago, and this is one of those guys that goes “all high-horse moral outrage” every time we see a name on the steroid list. But who cares? They made a mistake, he (McGwire) has certainly been vilified enough for a guy who committed a victim less crime. Same thing with Tiger, but like you said, who really cares? Yeah, maybe he is a bad husband and possibly a bad father, but you know what, theres 100’s of thousands of those in this country and nobody bothers them about it. The point about my friend who lost is job is yesterday he went into a rant about McGwire and what a bad man and weasel he was and all of this nonsense, so I asked him how he would feel if his job loss due to an illegal drug was publicized and he was ripped apart for it, seriously hindering the rest of his life. Yes, they are athletes, but they are still people, they still make mistakes and do stupid things, like us, we just don’t have the media reporting our every stupid move for the world too see. I’m not even saying I like Mac, but he succumbed to temptation, cheated, he was a ticket selling machine for a while, he lived the good life, he was a rock star, he retired, he got thrown under the bus, he protected himself in court, he came clean later, a pattern similar to how many of us would probably have acted, because it isn’t easy to come clean, and that lie can just keep growing. It happens. It doesn’t mean he is a bad person, just let him move on with the rest of his life.

WHO DEY, WHO DEY, WHO DEY THINK GON' BEAT THEM BENGALS.... J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS.

by nrmax88 on Jan 13, 2010 6:54 PM EST up reply actions  

That sucks what happened to your friend

And I get that he’s still a person and honestly it’s not him I have the problen with. It’s the (way too many) sports writers who have no other news to blab about during the off season who are acting like it’s a surprise. Again maybe it’s because I wasn’t old enough to remember, but still. I really don’t care.

by wrightttxgirlllx3 on Jan 13, 2010 9:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I still have my little McGwire T-shirt in my closet...

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 13, 2010 10:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Dammit Omar

I wish he hadn’t gone and overpaid for People.

by Joamiq on Jan 12, 2010 11:40 AM EST reply actions  

Is that Peoples Hernandez?

You can’t overpay for that guy. He wears Egyptian cotton, two-twenty thread. That’s, like, half your shitty-ass paycheck.

by TBlz on Jan 12, 2010 11:43 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Awesome Random Shaft Reference

It’s fun realizing every now and then that that’s Jeffrey Wright and that Christian “Batman” Bale is the white supremacist villain of that movie.

by theflicker on Jan 12, 2010 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Did Kannengeiser get cut?

I thought he was included on the roster for the last one of these spreadsheet updates.

"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jan 12, 2010 11:41 AM EST reply actions  

omar put a similar deal on the table for Kannengeiser and "People"

and People took the deal first.

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on Jan 12, 2010 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

sleep lightly Luis

Well, it goes to show you that the Mets can and will cut players and eat contracts.

by Coolpapabell on Jan 12, 2010 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

James is holding out for the vesting option

"I've been trying transcendental meditation, and that helps me be passive and wait on the curve. I've got to find something else to hit the slider." - George (The Stork) Theodore

by StorkFan on Jan 12, 2010 9:25 PM EST up reply actions  

.

Improvements:
Josh Thole is MWP adding 6WAR and taking the team to post season
One unknown prospect has a breakout season, replacing someone other than SS, 3B, CF, LF or SP1.
Omar Minaya is fired for reasons not related to baseball and is replaced by a JackZ-type of GM +10 WAR

Regression:
Josh Thole is traded to TB Rays adding 6WAR and taking TB to post season
Jason Bay defense is worse than advertised -1 WAR
Jeff Francoeur displays his true talent level -2 WAR
Lack of fundies and plenty of defensive blunders carry on from 2009 -2 WAR

by Michkin on Jan 12, 2010 11:46 AM EST reply actions  

Henry Blanco is going to be MVP, hamming us with his contract.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 12, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions  

is K-Rod really only worth 1 win? yeesh

"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell

by Rey-O on Jan 12, 2010 12:05 PM EST reply actions  

$17 m vesting option here we come

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Jan 13, 2010 6:48 PM EST up reply actions  

it's approaching negligence if

the Mets do not sign Adam LaRoche. Clearly his price has dropped to the 2/15M range with the Giants out and just a few teams left where he could land. Drop the Bengie Molina nonsense and use the $ to sign LaRoche… go with what we’ve got behind the plate or make a deal for Ryan Doumit (for Dan Murphy)…

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Jan 12, 2010 12:06 PM EST reply actions  

why would the pirates make that trade?

"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'

it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.

by Gina on Jan 12, 2010 12:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Because they're the Pirates, and they're supposed to be everyone else' bitches, remember?

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 12, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Disagree

Why would you want to block Ike Davis in 2011, when he should be ready. LaRoche has great second halves, but this team really needs a good start next year. Maybe LaRoche for 1 year, but not 2.

by Mackey Sasser on Jan 12, 2010 7:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not sure we can assume Davis will be ready in 2011

And even if he it seems kind of much to expect him to be able to take on the full time job by then.

"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'

it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.

by Gina on Jan 12, 2010 8:16 PM EST up reply actions  

We can't know until he's actually given it. The longer we block him, the longer it is till we find out.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 13, 2010 9:36 AM EST up reply actions  

But is Laroche really going to block anyone?

Well I suppose if Jerry’s still managing he’ll want to go with his gut/veterans, but it seems silly to avoid signing an league average first basemen because he may block someone a year from now. If Davis is ready send Laroche to the bench.

"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'

it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.

by Gina on Jan 13, 2010 9:44 AM EST up reply actions  

If a single-year contract can be hammered out, super. If not, eh...

If he’s going to essentially be sitting on the bench, why bring him on board, you know?

Also, another good reason to expedite the bringing Davis up process- the more time he spends in the Minors, the longer Omar might see him as a chip to trade away for a guy like Derek Lowe, or someone like that.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 13, 2010 10:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah but if they rush him and he struggles

Omar will trade him for a 4th outfielder and a back up catcher anyway.,

you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t with Omar.

"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'

it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.

by Gina on Jan 13, 2010 10:02 AM EST up reply actions  

We haven't traded that Bobby Parnell, so maybe there's hope...

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 13, 2010 11:44 AM EST up reply actions  

salary relief and

they also don’t have 1B settled at the moment.

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Jan 12, 2010 12:12 PM EST reply actions  

They just resigned him

and when healthy he’s being paid WELL below his actually value, hence why they resigned him, so why would they want the salary relief? And they have Garret Jones, who isn’t any worse of an option than Murphy is, and likely will be better, and there are plenty of cheap 1b options still available.

"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'

it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.

by Gina on Jan 12, 2010 12:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Not quite out of left field

Well earlier in the off-season he was mentioned in trade rumors. So, it should not be a complete surprise if he were traded, unless he were traded for Ollie Perez and Luis Castillo.

by Coolpapabell on Jan 12, 2010 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah I went and looked it up and found some rumors

but it still seems unlikely they’d trade him for Murphy of all people, unless injury was going to severely affect the rest of his career.

"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'

it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.

by Gina on Jan 12, 2010 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I already said

there could be other players involved. you’re getting a bit hung up on the specifics.

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Jan 12, 2010 5:43 PM EST up reply actions  

as a Pirates fan

I can tell you that I sincerely doubt they have any interest in Murphy. I’m sure they’d trade Doumit, but you’d have to headline the return with something more enticing than Murphy.

by epoc on Jan 12, 2010 11:01 PM EST up reply actions  

not a problem

I think the 2 teams match up fairly well. I guess the Bucs would like a young arm or 2 in return. Mets have lots of good arms coming thru the system that could work. I assumed Murphy cause the projected Buc 1B situation is Pearce and Clement right now and I expect them to augment that with someone.

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Jan 13, 2010 9:38 AM EST up reply actions  

anyway,

it sounds like a Molina signing is imminent…

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Jan 12, 2010 5:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Jones is expected to play RF

and they’ve been rumored to be interested ion moving Doumit b/c they like Jaramilo as their Catcher long term. Regarding 1B, they could also sign Blalock, Branyan or Jacobs but that’ll cost money and Murphy for Doumit saves them a bunch. Maybe there’d be other moving parts but the basis remains.

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Jan 12, 2010 12:27 PM EST reply actions  

Is Castillo falling off a cliff...

…really that bad? If it happens sooner than later, we can sign Hudson without trying to trade the untradeable….

by ljshorty89 on Jan 12, 2010 12:29 PM EST reply actions  

well we can't sign Hudson if he signs with someone else first

and at this point it seems like Castillo will either have to be traded, and no one seems to want him, or will somehow have to become so bad they can’t justify playing him, before Hudson signs somewhere else, for us to sign him.

"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'

it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.

by Gina on Jan 12, 2010 12:34 PM EST up reply actions  

If Castillo literally falls off a cliff

do we still have to pick up his salary?

You don't cheer for the Mets. You drink for the Mets.

by Kevin H on Jan 12, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Castillo was ranked last in UZR last season

Just read that on Metsblog. Damn! He IS FALLING off of a cliff. I find it hard to believe he will have another good season with the bat and he is hurting us with his fielding right now. Might be time to just suck it up and cut him.

I don’t know if Hudson is the answer though. Decent bat and glove but wouldn’t a super fielding 2b be better for our GB pitchers? Give up the batting to drastically improve our pitching and defense. or can we bring in a 2b fielding specialist for the bench to only play on the days Pelf and Pineiro (should he sign) pitch.

Asking a General Manager to slim down his budget is like asking an alcoholic to blow up a distillery.

by scott from peekskill on Jan 12, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

im a bit apprehensive about Hudson myself

For a year or two he’d be great, but he stands to be the next 2b sinkhole if he gets a long contract. The defensive specialist 2 games/week idea is interesting, I’d certainly be ok with this idea if we have to keep castillo as our 2b.

by KeithsMoustache on Jan 12, 2010 2:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Who is out here?

I don’t see any FA’s that would come on a one year super cheap deal. We might have to look in the minors for a light hitting super fielding 2b.

Asking a General Manager to slim down his budget is like asking an alcoholic to blow up a distillery.

by scott from peekskill on Jan 13, 2010 1:06 AM EST up reply actions  

We had one

and let him walk away, awful reyes, though he was decidedly awful.

"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'

it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.

by Gina on Jan 13, 2010 8:05 AM EST up reply actions  

We had another

Oil Spill Valdez, cheap defensive specialist.

by Michkin on Jan 13, 2010 8:10 AM EST up reply actions  

I will repeat my now-boring suggestion

that Anderson Hernandez is a good, cheap 2B

by deadspy3 on Jan 13, 2010 8:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh I agree

And i doubt he’s any worse of a back up option than Alex Cora, at a fraction of the cost.

"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'

it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.

by Gina on Jan 13, 2010 9:01 AM EST up reply actions  

AHern may be as good as Castillo but

that doesn’t make him good or better than average…

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Jan 13, 2010 9:39 AM EST up reply actions  

He doesn't need to be better than average to be good

He just needs to not be so bad he should pay us to play.

"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'

it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.

by Gina on Jan 13, 2010 9:45 AM EST up reply actions  

I like your ideas except I think if castillo fell off a cliff……wouldn’t we get better at 2nd base? Addition by subtraction…maybe go with 8 players in the field? lol

by earthworm on Jan 12, 2010 12:33 PM EST reply actions  

WAR Numbers

Anyone know where James gets hisprojected 2010 WAR numbers from? I’d like to replicate this spreadsheet and keep track of this myself.

by hammy8700 on Jan 12, 2010 12:42 PM EST reply actions  

I believe Sam used rough educated guesses

than hard projections. But you can use FanGraphs for projections which currently has CHONE, Bill James and Fan Projection, there’s also ZiPS and Marcel and the soon to be released PECTOA or use this spreadsheet to come up with your own.

the number one issue facing the Mets is finding that one guy who’s going to say "get on my shoulders and ride me to the championship."

by Sokojoe on Jan 12, 2010 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't pitch to Jason Heyward

:)

Remember folks, I'm almost always wrong.
"Let Jason Heyward start the season in RF, and get the hell out of his way."
Tyreke Evans for Rookie of the Year.
Peyton Manning = Best Quarterback of all time.
At Arizona, our basketball team doesn't rebuild...we re-load.

by Scott Coleman on Jan 12, 2010 1:14 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Rushing him to the majors would be foolish.

Besides the fact that he’s got basically 1/2 a seaon above A ball, starting his arbitration clock this early would be a mistake. I thought Wren handled Hanson perfectly, making him force his way into the majors. I certainly hope he has Heyward on the oening day roster…get that arbitration clock rolling.

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 12, 2010 1:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Eh, if he’s good enough, we’ll sign him to an extension like we did to Brian McCann.

Remember folks, I'm almost always wrong.
"Let Jason Heyward start the season in RF, and get the hell out of his way."
Tyreke Evans for Rookie of the Year.
Peyton Manning = Best Quarterback of all time.
At Arizona, our basketball team doesn't rebuild...we re-load.

by Scott Coleman on Jan 12, 2010 6:49 PM EST up reply actions  

there are lots of ways

to go without dropping another $5M on Hudson…

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Jan 12, 2010 3:28 PM EST reply actions  

What about Livan ?

you know what I'm sayin' ?

by fxcarden on Jan 12, 2010 3:51 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

+10 wins or 1000 lbs

Whichever comes first ?

you know what I'm sayin' ?

by fxcarden on Jan 12, 2010 3:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Metsblog commenters are not impressed

Among my favorite comments regarding this article:

how can you decide how many wins a team will have? maybe i should write a blog and throw in hypothetical win totals and my own suggestions

The article at Amazin Avenue is poorly constructed. How can you leave out the rest of the bench and middle relief corps?

by Bieser's Balk on Jan 12, 2010 4:53 PM EST reply actions  

Bullpen aids could mistakenly sound useful.

Omar lobby not to be confused.

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 12, 2010 5:36 PM EST up reply actions  

After the last three years

… and while I know things can break right, I’m afraid that they wont. If the things that very well could go wrong, do go wrong, next season – especially after the last three – is going to be the most miserable. If that happens, there will have to be a major house-cleaning.

"Never throw a slider to The Glider."

- Ed Charles, No. 5

by The Glider on Jan 12, 2010 6:12 PM EST reply actions  

Hopefully the inhouse cleaning

will be getting rid of Omar and Jerry and completely going in a new direction in the front office. Rather than trading players to get more heart and grit.

"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'

it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.

by Gina on Jan 12, 2010 6:26 PM EST up reply actions  

LOL. So you're already counting on a shyty 2010?

"Never throw a slider to The Glider."

- Ed Charles, No. 5

by The Glider on Jan 12, 2010 7:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh no I'm saying if everything does go wrong

I’m hoping it doesn’t lead to the Wilpons saying we need to trade Wright Reyes and Beltran because they don’t have enough heart and get more players like Frenchy.

"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'

it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.

by Gina on Jan 12, 2010 7:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Arroyo + Phillips +5?

I’m not sure which of these guys you are overrating, but I would think Pineiro alone might add about as much as that combo:

Using CHONE:

+2.4 Phillips
+1.3 Castillo
-——-
+0.9 net upgrade

And, RAR from baseballprojection.com (also CHONE):

19 Arroyo
24 Pineiro

And I would argue that CHONE’s aren’t smart enough to recognize a change in underlying fundamentals, like Pineiro’s new sinker. Pineiro was actually worth 4.8 WAR last year. I would bet on +3.0 there for 2010, givng just a bit extra weight to 2009. I’m not sure what the case is for Arroyo.

  

by acerimusdux on Jan 12, 2010 6:36 PM EST reply actions  

I'm all for conservative projections

but Brandon Phillips has average 3.7 WAR the last three seasons

by Sam Page on Jan 12, 2010 6:51 PM EST up reply actions  

An awful lot of that is from UZR

First off that’s in good part from a 5 WAR 2007, and second, a lot of that is from high UZR.
It looks like the discrepancy is partly that CHONE uses Total Zone. I don’t know which is right, but you probably need to regress those UZRs some even if you trust that more. So you probably end somewhere in the middle.

I don’t think any system really has him an above average bat, though. Per B-R, Batting runs for the last 3 seasons are +1.0, -7.4, +0.5. Looking at career fielding stats, TZ has him at -4.2 per 135 games, and UZR has him +7.3 per 150 games. It looks like plus/minus agrees with UZR though, putting him +8 per year from 2006-2008.

Still, 0+7.5+20+2.5 will get you to +3.0 WAR, so the CHONE is probably low if his defense is that good. But either way, while I’d rather have Phillips because he’s 3.5 years younger, he’s really not a better player now than Hudson, who you only have adding 1.5 wins. He’s about he same defensively and maybe even a bit less bat.

by acerimusdux on Jan 12, 2010 8:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Regress to what? Career?

Sean Smith (TotalZone’s creator) admits that Totalzone is far inferior in methodology to UZR, so why even consider it? Totalzone’s main use is calculating fielding runs when you don’t have BIS data (i.e. minor leagues).

I’m also far from convinced is Orlando Hudson’s defense=Brandon Phillips’ or is even that close.

by Sam Page on Jan 13, 2010 1:42 AM EST up reply actions  

The fielding bible guys have them close

…with an edge to Hudson, who came in 5th while Phillips came in 7th in their awards tally.

Here’s how each panel member ranked each this season:
http://www.billjamesonline.net/fieldingbible/Charts/voting1-09.gif

O B
H P
9 8 Bill James
5 x BIS Video Scouts
1 2 Hal Richman
7 8 Joe Posanski
7 9 John Dewan
7 8 Mat Olkin
5 X Peter Gammons
X 7 Rob Neyer
3 1 Fan poll
8 10 Tod Radcliffe

Clearly they were close, with 7 of the ten ranking them within 2 spots.

So Phillips is good, I just don’t see where Phillips + Arroyo is 1.5 wins better than Hudson + Pineiro (the combination I prefer).

by acerimusdux on Jan 13, 2010 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Well I often disagree with those fielding bible rankings

but I agree Hudson+Pineiro is probably preferable at this point, for no other reason than cost in $$ and talent.

by Sam Page on Jan 13, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

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