How The Mets Should Recover From Carlos Beltran's Surprise Surgery
by Sam Page on Jan 14, 2010 11:00 AM EST
313 comments
The reports on Carlos Beltran's recovery time are predictably conflicting, with some saying he will be ready in 8-12 weeks from yesterday (first week of the season), others predicting him out until the All-Star break. Like all surgery recoveries, exactly when Beltran returns depends on the own pace of his rehab, how his body responds, and how bad the Mets botch everything. He did not undergo microfracture surgery, the procedure Will Carroll predicted in July would be a "near certainty" to occur and would cause him to miss all of 2010. Instead, Beltran elected for a scope of his knees, which makes me more optimistic that he could return in the April-May timeframe.
Regarding Beltran's potential breach-of-contract, the idea that the team will take some sort of "action" against him seems laughable. The culture of mistrust among the fans and media, particularly regarding injuries, is such that even if the Mets end up recouping some of Beltran's contract, they'll have successfully turned one of their best players and the last of their supporters against them. When you are often criticized for being cheap and mishandling injuries, you probably should not sue your own player for seeking surgery, unless going for a so-ironic-it's-funny angle. If the Mets go after Scott Boras in some way, I hope they lose miserably. Scott Boras sending Oliver Perez to the Athletes Performance Institute this offseason is a ten times better move than Omar Minaya signing Oliver Perez in the first-place. Maybe part of the lawsuit settlement will be that Scott Boras has to serve time as the Mets GM.
The most responsible course of action for the Mets now is to assume Beltran will miss the entire season, and, if he returns, will be relegated to a corner OF spot or 1B. Luckily, they have one of the best 4th outfielders in baseball in Angel Pagan, so that will soften the blow a little. The shift in the depthchart, however, necessitates a new, equally useful fourth outfielder. Endy Chavez and Rick Ankiel would make a good tandem of two very-unique skillsets. Endy, who apparently might accept a minor-league deal, remains a good defensive specialist, even if he lost a step after his own surgery. If Beltran really does just miss a month or less, Rick Ankiel's skills make him a better short-term starter. Before an injury-ridden 2009, he posted pretty incredible .240+ ISO's in '07-'08. If he gets hot in the month or two Beltran misses, he could completely replace the lost offensive production. Defensively, he has a Francoeur-grade arm, but not enough range to be a season-long solution in center.
Each of these three players alone, however, fall short of Beltran's elite-production level. So, as the A's did in Moneyball with Jason Giambi, the Mets need to replace Beltran in components, looking to upgrade elsewhere, which means firstbase and secondbase, most likely. Now, Orlando Hudson at secondbase and a flyer on either Russell Branyan or Carlos Delgado seems more likely.
Ultimately, however, Minaya and co. should have considered the severity of Beltran's injury before significantly making their outfield defense worse. The blind hope that Beltran would be fine and his old-self really allowed me to warm up to the Bay signing. Hopefully, this whole fiasco motivates the Mets to make drastic improvements to both their run-scoring and run-prevention.
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i would take a flier on rocco baldelli.
"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell
by Rey-O on Jan 14, 2010 11:06 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
me too actually
I think the guy gets overlooked because it took so long for them to make sense of his metabolic disorder.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 11:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thirded.
We’d only be “asking” him to play full-time for the first month +/- of the season, assuming Beltran returns in say, May. After that, he’s got bench duty. So, asides for the first month, he’d have plenty of rest between starts to recuperate, which I know is the result of his problem.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 14, 2010 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
actually they've got him on proper medication for it now
theoretically he should be able to handle a full season now as normal, but this has been largely overlooked.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 11:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Even better, then.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 14, 2010 11:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yup heres a link
He’s been on medication for this condition for a while and by all reports i’ve heard the fatigue he’s been suffering has been greatly alleviated.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 11:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I've been a fan of his for a while; I root for anyone named 'Rocco' to succeed at whatever they're doing.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 14, 2010 11:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah i've always liked Baldelli
which is why i’ve kept track of his diagnosis.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 11:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
My first thought going into the offseason was that adding a combo of something like Baldelli and Andruw Jones would have been pretty savvy, and possibly allowed for the non-tendering of Jeff Francoeur. That would have given us four legit CFs (including Pagan) for the three spots and after Beltran three guys who would be getting paid like bench players but all of whom were capable of a much larger roll.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Jan 14, 2010 12:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
i’ve always been high on the multiple CFs approach, and we could get baldelli at a steal
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 12:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what if Rocco was a Mafia hitman sent to kill your family
still root for him then?
2009 Did Not Happen
by cjmulrain on Jan 14, 2010 11:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be torn.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 14, 2010 11:45 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
no he shouldn't
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Jan 14, 2010 3:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
laroche would have been very nice, especially since he only got one year
by Bieser's Balk on Jan 14, 2010 11:09 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
yup
at least Branyan on a short contract may still be an option especially with seattle out of the mix for him.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 11:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
but you know they won't do anything
they’re going to say, “We’ve upgraded power in left and catcher, so that will make up for Beltran’s absence. He’ll be back in May and we’ll be just fine”
by Bieser's Balk on Jan 14, 2010 11:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh Curtis Granderson, where have you gone?
by TheBigStapler on Jan 14, 2010 11:13 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
oh mike cameron where have you gone
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 11:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ty Cobb
are we just one-upping each other with dead centerfielders now?
2009 Did Not Happen
by cjmulrain on Jan 14, 2010 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Poor lug...
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 14, 2010 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
run prevention
i agree but honestly what’s left to do there? most of the pitchers left in FA aren’t good. omar clearly wants bronson arroyo which isn’t any great shakes and probably would have required pagan in any deal anyway which is now impossible.
theres also harang, but apparently the reds plan on paying the bulk of harang’s $12M salary in any trade in order to demand elite prospects in return. for us that probably means fmart which like pagan seems unlikely, especially now that our CF is losing the battle w/ degenerative knee ailments.
i mean pineiro on a 2-yr deal isn’t bad but its not the final answer.
branyan is as much of a risk as murphy offensively and his defense is far worse at first.
bay is already in LF so defense probably won’t get significantly better there and it seems unlikely that anyone will take castillo from us.
i guess the solution is some creative combination of these moves: jettison castillo in trade even at a loss; take lowell, even if his health is risky. if we’re lucky he comes back strong during ST and proves a solid platoon partner for murph, if we’re not he’s only signed through 2010. then get pineiro and sign lopez/hudson to shore up the IF defense and instantly improve pelfrey and pineiro as a result. also resign delgado for cheap try him at first for approx. 80-100 games, shifting murph or lowell to the tatis/supersub role.
by robcast23 on Jan 14, 2010 11:19 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
What's really ticking me off
is that it seems that if the Mets would have initially taken a long term view and allowed Beltran to have surgery right away last season, then he could have been ready for the season and have avoided all of this.
by Mount17 on Jan 14, 2010 11:20 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
lol are you crazy?
there’s NO way beltran could have come back and helped the team in september/october if that was the case
"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell
by Rey-O on Jan 14, 2010 11:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If it would have been microfracture,
which will ultimately needed (says Carroll) then he might have missed all of 2010. This clean out seems kind of like a band-aid to avoid the microfracture. In this case, I can see why the Mets tried to avoid surgery at all costs.
Trying to believe is my full-time occupation.
by Preach19 on Jan 14, 2010 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if the guy can't even do pre-season warmups
he’s not gonna be able to play.. period. If he had the surgery everybody knows he needs at the end of last year he’d be healthy and ready to go by the time spring training came around.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 11:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No
According to Carroll, the recovery period from microfracture is ultimately a full year.
Trying to believe is my full-time occupation.
by Preach19 on Jan 14, 2010 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ranges from 4 months (absolutely minimum) to a year
but id rather he missed all of next year and came back healthy than have them keep using temporary fixes that will ultimately shorten his career by a considerable margin.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 12:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mets are saying that he was doing fine at the end of 2009 season
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
by The Glider on Jan 14, 2010 2:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's the point
and he was fine going into December. I really don’t think the Mets are in the wrong here. You never want to encourage surgery. This isn’t like the situation with Jose Reyes in which he really wasn’t getting better and suffered setback after setback. Carlos was got better and didn’t need the surgery at the time.
Trying to believe is my full-time occupation.
by Preach19 on Jan 14, 2010 5:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The pain was gone but he wasn't fine
the underlying issue was still there, they could treat the pain but it was just going to come back. A similar thing happened with Marvin Harrison in Indy, and D-jack, I forget his full name but he’s another wr, they had similar knee problems and while they could treat the pain they couldn’t correct the underlying condition so the pain would just keep coming back once the wear and tear built back up.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 5:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
From Cerrone:
…from what i can gather, according to people close to both the team and player, this disagreement actually started last summer, when beltran felt he should have had surgery, so to begin rehabbing and be back, without doubt, 100 percent, this spring, because the necessary surgery, to him, meant a good four or five months out of the lineup… the Mets disagreed… and so, after a bit of quiet conflict, beltran begrudgingly chose to avoid surgery and begin a workout and rehab program devised by the team’s medical staff… he stuck with it, as requested, and returned to play 19 games… however, the pain in his knee returned…
And Davidoff also mentioned something about how the Mets’ plan was driven by their desire to not have another star taken away from the first season of Citifield.
by Mount17 on Jan 14, 2010 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I heard this is the Mets official who felt Beltran didn't need the surgery:
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 14, 2010 11:54 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
FIrst things were bad.
Now, everything’s good. Forever!
If there's ever a riot at Citi Field and Oliver Perez was the starter, I started the riot.
by meigs1414 on Jan 14, 2010 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So let me get this straight
The Mets put the long-term health of their best (or second best) player at risk in order to sell a marginally larger number of tickets for meaningless games in September.
Did anyone stop to think that, hey, whatever marginal boost we get now will be more than offset if we lose this guy for an entire year?
No need to answer that, because we all sadly know the answer.
by dcmetsfan on Jan 14, 2010 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Could not agree more with this.
If the Mets go after Scott Boras in some way, I hope they lose miserably. Scott Boras sending Oliver Perez to the Athletes Performance Institute this offseason is a ten times better move than Omar Minaya signing Oliver Perez in the first-place. Maybe part of the lawsuit settlement will be that Scott Boras has to serve time as the Mets GM.
by Sokojoe on Jan 14, 2010 11:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I never in a million years thought i'd be cheering for Scott Boras
but it does seem like he takes care of his clients, even if he is a bloodsucking leech when it comes to contract negotiations.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 11:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like Boras,
as I see nothing wrong with what he does, plus I’m very much in favor of the players getting our money, as they are the product, than the owners. But regarding Ollie, while I’m sure he’s take care of his client, it’s also in his self interest for Ollie to get in shape as it reflects poorly on Boras Inc. branding for Ollie to turn into a fat mess after he signed a contract where he was touted as being comparable to Koufax. That being said, as a Mets fan, I’m very happy with Boras making him do this.
by Sokojoe on Jan 14, 2010 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a big Boras fan
I just like the idea of someone earning a lot of money because he works absurdly hard and is supremely good at what he does. Him taking care of his clients even when he isn’t really responsible for them is just another bonus. Boras for GM!
by djg2111 on Jan 14, 2010 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
doesnt that go hand in hand
with taking care of your clients?
by Mike Clemente on Jan 14, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This was my big take-away from the whole scene too.
As an organization, the Mets need to stop this crap immediately.
by Jamesir Bensonmum on Jan 14, 2010 11:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree with everything in the post
Another excellent job, Sam
If there's ever a riot at Citi Field and Oliver Perez was the starter, I started the riot.
by meigs1414 on Jan 14, 2010 11:24 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Time to play the injury lottery
If you’re assuming that Beltran is out until at least the All-Star Break, I think that it really means that the off-season strategy shifts even more to taking big risks to compete this year. Sign Sheets. Sign Bedard. Sign Endy. Sign Delgado. If they just play if safe with “steady but unspectacular” players, there isn’t much hope for competing for the playoffs.
And there is no way that Murphy can be given the 1B spot now. They really need to bring in a ML quality bat for 1B.
by MangoMetsFan on Jan 14, 2010 11:35 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
So we know it definitely 100%
was not microfracture surgery, correct? That would make me feel a little better about this.
You don't cheer for the Mets. You drink for the Mets.
by Kevin H on Jan 14, 2010 11:36 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
yeah, that was decent news
means he will probably be back for the beginning of the season, but it also means his knees are going to get worse not better moving forward. Microfracture would have provided some recovery while scoping is more like maintenance.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 11:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Now I'm no fancy big city lawyer like Sam here,
But eight weeks from yesterday is March 10, twelve weeks would be the first week of the season, April 7. So if it’s eight weeks, hopefully he could be back by mid April.
The Mets lobby Omar for a plan, and his plan, he likes his plan. The problem is that he didn't write his plan down 'cause that makes it paperwork, and that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?
by Evan_S on Jan 14, 2010 11:38 AM EST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
It'll be early April when he's cleared to resume baseball activities, and another week or three until he's actually on the field, I would assume.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 14, 2010 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But 8 to 12 weeks is when he can first start to resume baseball activities
So I think best-case scenario for seeing Voltron back playing is May 1st, which all in all, isn’t THAT bad. I just pray that it is May 1st and not the All Star Break.
"You know I am only teasing. I love you gals out there -- always have." - Keith Hernandez
by OSUmets on Jan 14, 2010 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I meant to write 12
“big city lawyer”?
by Sam Page on Jan 14, 2010 11:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's mash up between a Homer quote and Futurama quote.
The Mets lobby Omar for a plan, and his plan, he likes his plan. The problem is that he didn't write his plan down 'cause that makes it paperwork, and that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?
by Evan_S on Jan 14, 2010 4:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, they could always use this as an opportunity
To try and rush Fernando some more.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Jan 14, 2010 12:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm assuming that this means:
Trade for Juan Pierre (to replace Carlos’ speed and defense) and signing Jermaine Dye (to replace Carlos’ power). Color me terrified.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jan 14, 2010 12:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I could certainly endure another season of mediocre baseball from the Mets, but this idea of "breach-of-contract" talk is grounds for players/fans abandoning the team.
First, in this case you shouldn’t mention the possibility of taking (legal) action unless you have irrevocably decided to do that. Just the fact that someone mentioned this is enough to cause more trouble instead of controlling the situation.
Second, there is a really small chance to succeed in breaking the contract. And it doesn’t even make sense. Let him heal properly, take this opportunity to show the organization is backing the player recovery and welcome him when he is ready.
Third, this demonstrates how “well” the organization takes care of its (core) players. While some players give “hometown discounts” to stay, we are going to have the opposite effect.
At this point, I’m less concerned with the effects on the roster construction for 2010 and more worried about the scars this disagreement will leave. Since I don’t expect the Mets to take the high road, maybe Beltran should say “I’m sorry, I should have contacted the Mets front office even when we had Altchek’s consent for the surgery. We are all good now”, even if it isn’t Beltran’s fault, just for the sake of ending this in peace.
by Michkin on Jan 14, 2010 12:17 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Yup
It was almost possible to believe last year that with the cascade of disaster things got away from them, but hopefully they could look at all the messes and learn things and move forward into a better organization. This is so distressing, not just because my beloved Beltran won’t be on the field for some portion of the season, but because it shows that they learned nothing. This is who they are.
The Wilpons are real estate peddlers, who are on a par with used car salesmen (sorry if anybody here sells real estate or used cars) in believing that fronting is everything. Make the sale, kick any potential problems down the road. You can always sucker somebody into buying what you’re selling.
by SuperT on Jan 14, 2010 12:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I might exercise the "criminally mismanaged" clause in my fan contract
and root for the Devil Rays [sic] this year.
Any cheers I make for Johan and Reyes will be held in escrow until the results of arbitration are unsealed.
by hotspur on Jan 14, 2010 2:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"News: Conference Call about Beltran on SNY at 2 pm"
by Michkin on Jan 14, 2010 12:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
minaya is going to flip out
and star accusing angel pagan of spreading lies about beltran, claiming pagan “always wanted his job”
"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell
by Rey-O on Jan 14, 2010 12:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Angel Pagan lobby for Carlos Beltran's job, eh?
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 14, 2010 12:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cracks me up that conference calls have been (justifiably) deemed too much for Omar
And I say this because coming from Joel Sherman, okay, and Joel, you gotta understand this, Joel, for the past couple of years, has lobby for n orthopedic surgeon position. He has lobby myself, he has lobby Dr. Altchek. So when these things came out I was kind of a little bit, I had to think about it. And I was a little bit, you know, somewhat, kind of, we gotta find out about this.
by Bieser's Balk on Jan 14, 2010 12:41 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Any 4 minor leaguers in the system....
…..for Ben Zobrist. When Beltran returns, move Zobrist to second. He’s played both.
by MetsFanX on Jan 14, 2010 12:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Why would the Rays do it
they’re likely good enough to contend for a wildcard and Zobrist is one of their top 2-3 players.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 12:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Plus they're farm system is already stacked
so it’s not like even if they werent in position to contend they’d be selling players for prospects to rebuild.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 12:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Because they're that good.
They have as much depth at the big league level as they do the minors. You never have enough pitching. If we opened with Mejia, Holt and Fmart, I think they’d hear us out.
by MetsFanX on Jan 14, 2010 3:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why would we do that
Zobrist is awesome, but we have so many other holes, that guys like Meija, Holt, and f-mart could conceivably fill cheaply in the next few years that adding him wouldn’t even guarantee us a wild card berth.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 3:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
how many sports organizations
seem to be run worse than ours?
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 12:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Isiah's Knicks, Millen's Lions
Everyone’s Raiders.
by James Kannengieser on Jan 14, 2010 1:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They need to bring isiah back to take some heat off us
Though I actually meant current organizations, hopefully we’re not stuck with this mess as long as the Lions were stuck with Millen. And at least in the raiders defense Al Davis was brilliant before he turned senile, were the Wilpons ever brilliant?
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wilpons
The Wilpons pay too much attention to the Mets to stick with Omar for more than eight years. William Clay Ford stuck with Millen eight years entirely because he just doesn’t pay attention (this is different from not caring; WCF spends money, built a beautiful facility and pays his people top dollar; he clearly cares).
Some people complain about owners meddling in a team’s affairs, but the opposite can be just as much a problem. When your owner doesn’t meddle and hires a guy like Matt Millen, well, that’s how you get stuck with the worst GM in football history for eight years.
And to be perfectly honest, Omar Minaya is light years ahead of Matt Millen. It’s easy to forget that took a terrible team and turned it around into a team that almost made it to the WS just two years later (and yes, he had some help from David Wright and Jose Reyes and Fred Wilpon’s checkbook, but he still did it). Hell, Omar Minaya’s weakest point is how he drafts, but he still drafts better than Millen ever did.
(Here’s my favorite Matt Millen fact, one that’s often forgotten: he commuted to work…from Pennsylvania. He only showed up three days a week, opting to spend the rest of his time at home.)
Maybe this is why I’m so tolerant of Minaya; next to Matt Millen and Mad Mike Milbury, he’s Branch Rickey.
by Alex Nelson on Jan 14, 2010 2:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You're a Lions fan as well?
You poor soul.
The Mets lobby Omar for a plan, and his plan, he likes his plan. The problem is that he didn't write his plan down 'cause that makes it paperwork, and that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?
by Evan_S on Jan 14, 2010 4:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I though I had it bad as a Bills fan...
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Schmidtxc on Jan 14, 2010 4:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Be happy you aren't a Lions/Mets fan.
Louis Delmas and other rookies end the season giving me hope, then the Mets want to sue Beltran for having knee surgery…
by Jamesir Bensonmum on Jan 14, 2010 1:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the Redskins/Rams are kind of on the same level
of course we don’t have big name free agents we just gave huge contracts to coming out and saying the coaches are against them.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Clippers
Incomptence + racist owner = worst
by Bieser's Balk on Jan 14, 2010 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Redskins are much worse
Believe me, I know. Though they might be improving with the change in GM and Coach, but I remain skeptical.
by dcmetsfan on Jan 14, 2010 1:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
their offense looked a bit better towards the end of last year
but i dont see how they justify spending as much as they did on Haynesworth. That money could have netted them so many other pieces that team needs.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"Hopefully, this whole fiasco motivates the Mets to make drastic improvements to both their run-scoring and run-prevention"
Or how about decision making???
by Dapoil on Jan 14, 2010 1:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Screw Beltran
Yea he did some good things, but this guy is consistently inconsistent and is constantly having problems with his knee’s to which he refused for 3 years to get surgery on, and having his knees scoped means another year of him being in and out of the lineup… I hope the Mets do sue him it’s about time… Like i said, he should have taken care of this years ago…
by Tophubufu on Jan 14, 2010 1:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
He wanted to last year
the mets wouldn’t let him, maybe you should read the articles before you jump on the player?
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 1:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He struck out that one time, too!!!!11!
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 14, 2010 1:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you read anything? He actually wanted to deal with it when it happened and was told "no" by the front office.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Schmidtxc on Jan 14, 2010 1:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, his GORP* was horrible.
*grission over replacement player
by Jamesir Bensonmum on Jan 14, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
flagged
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Jan 14, 2010 3:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If Beltran is forced to a corner, that would likely give us Bay, Pagan, and Beltran, as opposed to Frenhy.
That might not be the worst thing, espescially if we end up with Molina.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Schmidtxc on Jan 14, 2010 1:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
not a bad looking OF if that happens,
Although Pagan in CF full time makes me a little apprehensive, but I trust him to do an adequate job there.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Me too, but less apprehensive the Francoeur and his .300 OBP in the lineup next to Molina.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Schmidtxc on Jan 14, 2010 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What about possible trade candidates?
Not named Juan Pierre, any attractive center fielders that could be on the market. Preferably ones that play for gms on Omar’s approved trading partners list.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 1:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Considering the "Omar's approved trading partners list" (thumbs up sign)
David DeJesus, if Omar manages to trade for a couple of relievers (not one of our prospects or Pagan involved).
Though I’m reluctant with Omar’s trading capabilities and even bad gms exploring Omar’s desperation move with Beltran’s news.
by Michkin on Jan 14, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah any trade we make now is gonna be tough
because this teem is going to reek of desperation. Our best bet is a bad contract swap with someone at this point, because it doesn’t give the other team much to leverage with.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah the desperation factor
is exactly why as much as Carl Crawford might make sense I can’t stomach the idea of them going after him
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
we would have to sell them our farm system
the whole thing
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 1:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"Omar's blacklisted trading partners list".
by Michkin on Jan 14, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
absolutely
trading with the Rays is an invitation to disaster.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We could compare Omar's trading partner list to the Richter magnitude scale
10.0 = Rays and Mariners
2.0 to 5.0 = Royals
and the rest of the teams in between.
by Michkin on Jan 14, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sabean?
I mean the royals swapped out a murderer for a league average pitcher on us. They might be more near a 6.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Any trades between Sabean and Omar?
Ok, maybe the floor was too low, considering our GM. Since there is potential for disaster even in his approved trading list, the floor should be 2.0 to 8.0
by Michkin on Jan 14, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's base case scenario
we’d also probably dedicate 30% of our revenue to the rays for the next 20 years.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Would a certain Melky Cabrera interest the Mets?
http://www.capitolavenueclub.com/
by PWHjort on Jan 14, 2010 1:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
i just threw up in my mouth
I know Cabrera was ok last season but I’ve hated the guy for as long as I can remember. And while he has improved in CF defense a bit over the last few years I still don’t know that I’d trust him in CF in citi between Bay and Francoeur where we need someone who can cover a LOT of space.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
anyone going to be watching the press conference at 2?
Im curious as to what will be said but dont have access to a TV right now.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 1:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I will. Nothing better to do.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 14, 2010 1:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
mind keeping us posted on any important points?
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 1:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Of course.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 14, 2010 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can't take anymore mets press conferences
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Omar isn't doing this one
might be less horrible?
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
More fun to watch than the games
imo
by Sam Page on Jan 14, 2010 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
See it's funny when I hear about them after the fact
but watching them just makes me feel uncomfortable, awkward and embarrassed.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
thats how being a Mets fan should feel
it means you’re doing it right
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He probably means games
as in the computer simulations he runs all day in his moms basement.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Does anybody here have any insight ...
on Beltran coming back at the end of last season with absolutely nothing on the line and his knees squeaking like rusty hinges?
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
by The Glider on Jan 14, 2010 1:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
my guess, Mets FO didn't want more surgeries associated with that season
so they made him come back and play out the season on what was left of his knees to save face, at the cost of the player.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the mets are stoopid
I think someone posted earlier that he wanted to have the surgery last summer, but the mets didn’t want him too so he agreed to follow their rehabilitation regime and after a few months the pain was gone so they sent him back out there but then it returned early this off-season.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I heard that on the FAN too
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
by The Glider on Jan 14, 2010 2:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the Mets are big on the if you ignore it
it will go away school of medicine
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 2:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Francesa says that Mets don't have the call to make
on the surgery. It’s Beltran’s call under the CBA
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
by The Glider on Jan 14, 2010 2:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
after 33-years, I’m done with this team; the lies and deceit to scam fans out of their hard-earned paychecks is beyond ridiculous. Why didn’t he have the surgery before the season ticket invoices were mailed out? Exactly.
by NostraChronus on Jan 14, 2010 2:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Goodbye. Don't let the door hit you on the way out, if things cause you to actually abandon your team.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 14, 2010 2:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
conference call
if what ricco is saying is the truth, then i understand why the mets are upset. beltran is signed to a huge contract and they should have the right to be in the know regarding his condition. the truth part being the big if.
by njk237 on Jan 14, 2010 2:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
and
thank god this is ricco and not minaya.
by njk237 on Jan 14, 2010 2:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ricco does a lot of 'Uh'ing, too, I notice. In this situation, understandable, though.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 14, 2010 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So, apparently...
What I gathered is that he was having knee problems, and went to see the first doctor, which the Mets knew about, and authorized. He then went to see the second doctor, with the blessings of the organization. The team was under the assumption this was a second opinion, and that they’d have the option to get a third opinion, and that they’d be in the loop. Inexplicably, seemingly, Beltran had surgery with that second doctor, but didn’t let the team know that he was having surgery. They were left out of the process…
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 14, 2010 2:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
probably because they would have just said
no, no surgery for you.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Basically.
It’s really, really hard to side with the Mets on this one.
by Jamesir Bensonmum on Jan 14, 2010 2:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well I can understand more why they're upset in this situation
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 2:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well yeah,
but the problem here is that there is a problem in the first place.
by Jamesir Bensonmum on Jan 14, 2010 2:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Right. The first doctor visit, that the Mets "authorized", they seemed to like the prognosis that all he needed was rest.
It was Beltran who wanted the second doctor and the second opinion. Given that the team might have wanted a third opinion, I think it’s likely that they might have not wanted surgery at all costs, or whatever, for whatever reason.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 14, 2010 2:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
thats how i'm pretty sure this probably went down
It probably came down to Beltran knowing he needed surgery for months and the Mets stonewalling him at every turn.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
did they mention anything about contract violations or anything like that
or have they quietly dropped that craziness.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Some writers mentioned stuff like that, but Ricco declined to answer those questions at this time.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 14, 2010 2:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
this is just my opinion
but what i inferred from ricco was that they dont intend to go after beltran like that, but want to be on record as not OKing the surgery without giving it “due dilligence” yada yada incase it doesnt turn out as helpful for beltran. just my take.
by njk237 on Jan 14, 2010 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And he may well have thought this would go just like last summer
With endless “management” of it, and he wanted to try to save his season.
by SuperT on Jan 14, 2010 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
not just his season
he’s still young, and has a lot of career ahead of him. I actually wish he had gone for the full microfracture treatment so he would be healthy instead of just delaying the inevitable. If they remove too much cartelidge from his knee the probability of microfracture working later decreases precipitously.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That Colorado doctor has said he's not a candidate for microfracture, I believe
by SuperT on Jan 14, 2010 2:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Last year, I read an interview Dr. Steadman said Beltran's case was not for microfracture.
Didn’t listen to todays interview.
by Michkin on Jan 14, 2010 2:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ah thats unfortunate
that means it has likely deteriorated past the point where it would likely be successful
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wait really?
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i'd guess so
either the damage is so minor he doesnt need it, or its major enough they dont think it’ll work. I know if you have more than about 1 inch diameter of deteriorated cartelidge the odds of it working goes way down. I could be wrong, but of these two scenarios I have trouble believing they cant do it because it hasn’t progressed far enough along yet.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good point
Remember Allan Houston of the Knicks had that procedure and he just couldn’t turn the corner. Beltran’s knee must be bone rubbing on bone or close to it.
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
by The Glider on Jan 14, 2010 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't jump right to that conclusion based on "he's not a candidate for microfracture".
by Michkin on Jan 14, 2010 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what can i say, im a pessimist
the amount of deterioration you can have before microfracture is no longer an option is pretty small though, theres a real possibilty by rehabbing and training through this injury he may have gone past the point where this treatment would be effective.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What I mean is microfracture might not be the best treatment for osteoarthritis, since this is a degenerative disease.
by Michkin on Jan 14, 2010 3:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ah thats true
but they mean the same thing. Beltran’s knees will continue to deteriorate and theres very little that can be done about it at this point.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 3:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Kevin Burkhardt started saying something like that as I shut the TV off.
He was saying how the fault totally lies on Carlos Beltran, because, seemingly, he doesn’t trust the medical advice of the organization after last year. I both agree and disagree with that, and can see both sides, on that one.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 14, 2010 2:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, that seems to me to put the fault on an organization that has destroyed its players' trust in its medical management
by SuperT on Jan 14, 2010 2:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. But, at the same time, he shouldn't be getting surgery without telling/asking anyone.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 14, 2010 2:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yes, but if he knows they wont let him get the surgery he needs to continue his career
it becomes a grey area
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Right, but because it's something that now can't actually come to pass (the Mets telling him not to have surgery), we'll never know.
They can very easily spin it that they wanted 3 opinions before committing to something. Or four, or some other number.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 14, 2010 3:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
or however many it took to get their way
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah. It became a moot point as soon as Beltran went under the knife.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 14, 2010 3:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah it was a no win situation for beltran
it reminds me of Bill and Teds bogus journey where death keeps losing to them at games, and keeps upping the number they have to win for him to let them go.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That might have been the reason he did it
either he gets the surgery and directly defies their wishes. or he gets the surgery without them ever putting their two cents into it.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 3:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So Beltran is out until July(wfan) and still may need microfracture surgery.
2010=EPIC FAIL
by Major on Jan 14, 2010 2:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
excuse me?
i just listened to the entire conference call and neither of those things were mentioned. ricco confirmed 12 weeks until baseball activity, did not mention a specific date, and certainly didnt say anything about july. he also said specifically that beltran was NOT a candidate for microfracture surgery. what are you talking about.
by njk237 on Jan 14, 2010 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not 5 minutes ago Francessa said "Beltran is out until July and may still need
microfracture surgery" They didn’t play the entire conference call they are playing it pieces so you didn’t hear the entire bit.
by Major on Jan 14, 2010 2:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And John Ricco and the Mets are Lord? When the star of the team gets a surgery
they didn’t approve? We are all gonna have to wait it out.
by Major on Jan 14, 2010 2:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yea thats right
we’ll have to wait and find out. but nobody said july, and if francessa said it, it didnt come from anything official, so cut the crap.
by njk237 on Jan 14, 2010 2:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude he just said 12 weeks until he can even train again. Not play..TRAIN!
by Major on Jan 14, 2010 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Right. He'll be back by May, giving him an ample 4 weeks to get into basebal shape.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 14, 2010 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no.
i heard the entire conference call, and i heard people ask numerous times when beltran might be back. every time, ricco reiterated that it would be 12 weeks till baseball activity and thats all they knew as of now. it may be july, but nobody that matters has said that yet. i also heard ricco say flat out that a) it was not a microfracture surgery and b) beltran would not be a candidate for said surgery. so you need to stop now.
by njk237 on Jan 14, 2010 2:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
"Beltran is out until june at the earliest" Francessa Wfan 2:54pm
by Major on Jan 14, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Francessa is absolutely and unequivocabally wrong, then.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 14, 2010 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just trying to stress the absolute wrongness of it.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 14, 2010 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The point Francessa is making is that the Mets know nothing and that 12 weeks
is the mets best case scenario to save face. Beltran could be out a long time no one knows how long his rehab will take
by Major on Jan 14, 2010 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who are you going to trust more?
The organization, that, even if trying to save face, knows what it’s talking about (mostly)? Or Francessa, someone who’s job is to peddle lies, rumor mongering, and the like, who is a complete 3rd party to the situation, and knows as much as we do?
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 14, 2010 3:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
After the past two years with the Mets Org and injuries I'm just gonna
wait and see and trust no one.
by Major on Jan 14, 2010 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Carlos Beltran and Scott Boras found a world class surgeon and
had the procedure done and told the Mets to go f themselves basically.
by Major on Jan 14, 2010 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
More or less, yeah.
A weird situation all around…
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 14, 2010 3:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But baseball related activity usually means
rehab activities/training, so we’re looking at 3 months before he can even rehab, let alone play at the ML level.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
After the 12 weeks, nobody really knows how long he'll need of rehab.
Francessa estimate is just guessing game as any other estimate at this point. 4?12? weeks who knows.
by Michkin on Jan 14, 2010 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Did anyone hear what the "prognosis" is?
Will he return 100%? 80%? Is this potentially career-threatening?
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
by The Glider on Jan 14, 2010 3:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
No one mentioned anything about career-ending.
Osteoarthritis, apparently, is something that Beltran has, that has caused a lot of his woes in the past. Presumably, since only the effects of it were taken care of, instead of the actual arthritis itself, it’s something that can’t be fixed fully, and he’s always going to have knee problems. That’s just speculation on my part, though.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 14, 2010 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Endy Chavez in CF platooning with Fernando?
by Major on Jan 14, 2010 3:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think I'd just rather go with Pagan
He can hit, though his power numbers in my mind are still questionable. And he can field the position. If he can just cut down on his base running blunders, I could live with him until Beltran comes back.
FMart, while he proved he could handle the position defensively, didn’t show he could hit major league pitching yet.
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
by The Glider on Jan 14, 2010 3:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
honestly
i dont want to see fernando anywhere near the majors this year
"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell
by Rey-O on Jan 14, 2010 3:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Barring a trade for a CF I think Fernando is going to get a shot to play with the big club.
by Major on Jan 14, 2010 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i hope not
dont need to start training him as a backup OF
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 4:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Silver Lining?
Maybe just maybe, Pagan will start in cf, get off to a monster start and once Beltran comes back they’ll sit Frenchy instead of him.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 3:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
A negative could be Molina getting 2 years now
by Major on Jan 14, 2010 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that's only if you believe he wasn't getting 2 years regardless.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 3:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
2 things
One, we have to say no Beltran til at least June, maybe ASB. The way his knees are, and the fatc that he’s needed surgery for a while, and may take a while to rehab and then do spring training basically in April/May.
Two. I think under the CBA he can decide to have surgery, no breach of contract.
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Jan 14, 2010 3:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Timeline
I’m going to be optimistic and hope for mid May. 12 weeks and then a month or so to get in game shape sounds reasonable, barring further setbacks, no?
by njk237 on Jan 14, 2010 3:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Beltran to 1B.
This needs to happen at this point.
by MetsFanX on Jan 14, 2010 3:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Disagree
Beltran to a corner needs to happen, but moving an outfielder to an infield position is a crapshoot.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Does he have to move because is probably won't be good enough to play CF
or that CF puts too much stress on his body?
by EtSuKe on Jan 14, 2010 4:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably a little of both
more the latter. I don’t know if he’d suddenly turn to an awful fielder in CF, but he might not be better than average anymore, which Pagan could possibly provide, and when you combine that to the extra stress there’s no reason to keep him there.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 4:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Corner OF is not....
…that much of a relief on the knees. Constant stop, go, slide, dive still happens in the corners.
by MetsFanX on Jan 14, 2010 4:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah you're probably right
I was thinking less ground to cover but I forgot about the diving/stop and going, still unless we have no idea how he’d transition to the infield at his age.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 5:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
beltran in that spacious right field...
would be perfect
by Mike Clemente on Jan 14, 2010 6:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Heyman says Reed Johnson is still out there and available
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
by The Glider on Jan 14, 2010 4:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I mention Felipe Lopez all the time
but he’s clearly not the guy the Mets want.
by Sam Page on Jan 14, 2010 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not for the mets trading for Vernon Wells but what pitcher from Toronto could
make that a possibility?
by Major on Jan 14, 2010 4:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Roy Halladay?
shit. too late.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jan 14, 2010 4:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Toronto would take me, if they could unload Wells' contract on the Mets.
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
by The Glider on Jan 14, 2010 4:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah but who could we take from them is what I'm asking
by Major on Jan 14, 2010 4:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
At this point all their pitchers are as injury prone as ours
though with considerably more upside.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Would Brandon Morrow be enough of a get to take on Wells?
by Major on Jan 14, 2010 4:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not to me
too many red flags between his injuries, his diabetes and his poor control.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a big Marcum fan
but I don’t know anything about his injury, like it’s long-term prognosis on his arm and I’m not sure Toronto would give him up just to be rid of Wells. How many more years is left on Well’s contract?
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bernie Sote is availabe
He played a great defensive center field when we played summer league ball together. Great arm too. No stick though.
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
by The Glider on Jan 14, 2010 4:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
How much worse does our of defense project too
if you replace Beltran with Pagan, especially considering some of the arguments that Beltran would be able to field some of the zones frenchy/Bay couldn’t cover.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 4:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Younger, faster and more athletic has changed to older, slower and average.
The outfield without Beltran is beyond a disaster defensively. Which is why I hope they look at letting Martinez platoon with frenchy and possibly sign Chavez
by Major on Jan 14, 2010 4:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure would be nice to see something positive happen for the Mets.
I don’t want to begin spring training w/a negative attitude on our chances for success.
by OVERALLSPORTSFAN on Jan 14, 2010 4:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
What do you guys think of this?
Move Reyes to CF, and sign Felipe Lopez to play SS. Reyes has the speed of a centerfielder and the arm to boot, too. Lopez is a good defensive secondbaseman, so he might be able to play a decent shortstop. And if not, he can shift over to second base and knock Castillo out of our lineup.
Gas prices today are a lot like a pitcher's ERA. Anything under 3 is amazing, under 4 is pretty good and anything 5 and up is something you want to avoid.
by Bobby Baseball on Jan 14, 2010 5:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think we'd be better off with Reyes at SS
and Pagan in CF and just signing Lopez to play 2nd.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 5:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Orlando Hudson for 2B?
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
by The Glider on Jan 14, 2010 5:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
bleh
i’d prefer lopez but as long as hudson was on a short team relatively cheap deal i suppose it’d be fine.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 5:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He's been more consistent than Lopez during his career
plus Hudson is a gold glover.
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
by The Glider on Jan 14, 2010 5:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's right
David Wright won it two years ago.
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
by The Glider on Jan 14, 2010 5:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah he didn't deserve one of them though
the 2007 should have gone to any number of guys over him, most notably Zimmerman. Not saying Wright is a bad defender, but gold glove can’t be used to determine much because theres so much favoritism that goes into its selection. may i point to Palmeiro as an excellent example of why the gold glove is stupid.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 6:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hudson on a 2 year plan would be ok
but no long term deals
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 5:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hudson would be doing cartwheels with a 2 year deal.
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
by The Glider on Jan 14, 2010 5:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Have there ever been cases of sucessful SS-turned-CFs?
That’s a ballsy idea, I’ll say that much. Reyes does have the tools to be at least somewhat proficient in CF, but the idea just doesn’t sound too kosher to me. I’d be afraid of risking Reyes to some kind of injury; the outfield seems cursed.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 14, 2010 5:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Plus, he woud have to want to do it ...
… and he’s not going to want to do it. He’s in the prime of his career. When healthy his is one of the most dynamic SSs in baseball. And I think is contract is up on a year (?).
I would put FMart in CF in AAA and hope he develops there and stays healthy. I think FMart can handle CF defensively. It’s his stick and health I still need to be convinced of.
In any event, I think it’s time that we start thinking about an eventual replacement for Beltran in CF.
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
by The Glider on Jan 14, 2010 5:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
his defensive numbers in cf in the minors
definitely left something to be desired.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 5:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
time for Captain Kirk?
Mets are way overdue for bringing him up far too early and messing him up for a while.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 5:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Captain Kirk?
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
by The Glider on Jan 14, 2010 6:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nieuwenheuis (i apologize if i got the spelling wrong)
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 6:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lol
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
by The Glider on Jan 14, 2010 6:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How did you think he looked when you watched him play there
…when he was up with the Mets? That’s where I don’t think stats tell you who story. He looked like he got good jumps on the ball and he had a pretty good arm, if I recall. Maybe his accuracy needs to improve, but that’s why I would put him there in AAA and see what happens. If it doesn’t work out, the Mets could always move him to a corner OF position, or trade him.
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
by The Glider on Jan 14, 2010 6:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Or trade him what?
where does that come from. The guys a corner outfielder, he’ll likely stick in a corner outfield spot, there’s no reason to think he’ll hold down CF or that he should be traded if he doesn’t stick there.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 6:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In the right deal, anyone is expendable.
The guy looked completely over-matched at the plate and can’t seem to stay healthy at all. I understand he’s still young, but how much longer are you going to give him while the Mets’ ship be sinking.
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
by The Glider on Jan 14, 2010 6:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He's only 21
How much longer? He’s still younger than most players in AA,AAA ball. He hasn’t been given that long to begin with people just act like he has because he was an IFA, people seem to expect IFA’s to progress something like highschool bats, be ready around 20/21 if they’re elite prospects when they come in much rawer and well behind the learning curve of prep bats. And when you factor in how rushed/mishandled he’s been by the mets I’d say it’s not unreasonable to think it will be another 1.5 years before he’s ready.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 6:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
reyes, like upton, has tools that are better suited for CF (ridiculous speed and a rocket arm). If reyes has another mediocre defensive year, it’s something to consider. I doubt it will ever happen
by Mike Clemente on Jan 14, 2010 6:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I love this idea. I was just going to make a fanpost about him but I don't want it to seem like I am copying you so I will let you write it. Unless you don't care....
Gas prices today are a lot like a pitcher's ERA. Anything under 3 is amazing, under 4 is pretty good and anything 5 and up is something you want to avoid.
by Bobby Baseball on Jan 15, 2010 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If you don't make it at SS
you become a 2B along the way, then a 3B or a CF if you can’t play second. I’d say quite a few of the current CFer were SS at some time.
by Sam Page on Jan 14, 2010 6:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Robin Yount and Gary Sheffield come to mind
Gas prices today are a lot like a pitcher's ERA. Anything under 3 is amazing, under 4 is pretty good and anything 5 and up is something you want to avoid.
by Bobby Baseball on Jan 15, 2010 3:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Theoretically
Fred Lewis could be had for not that much…
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Whomever Sabean signs this off-season will make a good platoon partner with Ryan Gark-ohh... nevermind...
by baetown415 on Jan 14, 2010 5:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
At this point
if the Mets take it as a given that Francoeur and Bay are starting in the corners, the acquisition of some kind of role playing outfielder is necessary, but overall improvement is just as if not more important. In addition to Chavez or Ankiel, the Mets need to get Molina, Arroyo, Phillips, Branyan and Smoltz to round out the roster. Phillips, Molina AND Branyan all add a ton of pop to Bay and Wright and potentially Beltran, and Phillips will make our infield sick nasty. Arroyo will give us a healthy, reliable starter who isn’t all fly balls like Harang, and Smoltz will give us a 5th starter option besides Perez…
by METSMETSMETS on Jan 14, 2010 5:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Let's go get Lincecum Pujols, Mauer, Upton, Koufax, and the ghost of Jackie Robinson, while we're at it.
I disagree with Molina. Arroyo/Phillips, if such a trade can be had for anything other than an exorbitant fee- which probably isn’t too likely, that’d be nice. Branyan, I could go either way, and Smoltz, I don’t see the need.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 14, 2010 5:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Molina isn't even much of an upgrade over what we have now
and Arroyo isn’t an upgrade at all over the options on the FA market, who can probably be had for cheaper contracts and without the cost of prospects.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 5:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't even relize this until I looked at the numbers explaining to someone why I don't want Molina:
Last season, in his limited 82 games and 228 at-bats, Blanco was worth a WAR of 1.2. Molina, in 132 games and 491 at-bats, was worth 1.8. Molina only had marginally better numbers. Of course, he’s going to command a contract that is moderate, in terms of dollars. To be ironic, his contract is going to be ‘bloated’. Blanco, his contract, even with plenty of those incentives fulfilled, has a peanuts contract, and can give you almost the same amount of total production- maybe more, if he played as much as Molina, who knows? Are a couple of million of dollars worth 60% of a win? I’d rather allocate that money elsewhere.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 14, 2010 5:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Blanco
You’d have to take those numbers with a grain of salt. Blanco is a good catcher but has never shown the ability to play everyday. I don’t like the sound of giving a 39 year old catcher the highest workload of his career. He’s only had 4 seasons with over 300 PAs and the most recent was 2004.
I think Blanco is pretty good but honestly I can’t see him getting any more than 210 PAs, and I don’t feel like giving Santos 350 is such a great idea, as I really hated his pitch calling behind the plate. Granted, Molina over Santos is only a slight offensive improvement, but in terms of defense it’s rather large.
by METSMETSMETS on Jan 15, 2010 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
On Molina
and little improvement would be nice, and yes while at face value his fatness and low OBP is unattractive he’s still MUCH better than whatever we have, and any little bit helps. I wouldn’t imagine an Arroyo/Phillips trade costing TOO much outside of Castillo (for the sake of problem for problem and filling the Phillips hole) Maine (a relatively young, useful MLB pitcher) and a few prospects to compensate for Phillips.
I don’t see how anyone could deny how awesome a deal with Branyan could be. And Smoltz is a good pitcher who can be used to any capacity…we could use one of those…
by METSMETSMETS on Jan 14, 2010 6:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i think branyan is a good idea at this point as well
Smoltz i’m a bit less of a fan, although is versatility is a plus. I think Sheets, Pinero, or even Garland would probably be better expendatures though.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 6:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cost
with Arroyo in the rotation I don’t see the other three as affordable, and I see Arroyo as the best choice because it would be the only way we’d gain Phillips, and without Phillips I’d see Pineiro as a bust and I don’t see much of a difference between Garland and Arroyo, and I don’t trust Sheets as a primary signing due to his health. Smoltz would likely be a much smaller deal ($2-3 million) to fill out the rotation.
by METSMETSMETS on Jan 14, 2010 8:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He's not really much better than what we have
His power numbers are better but his base running and defense are well below them, overall we’d barely be gaining anything but a meh contract. And the point is kind of that there’s really no reason to give up prospects for Phillips when some combination of Lopez/Hudson and Piniero, and possibly Garland, would improve the team just as much as Arroyo/Phillips without giving up prospects.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 6:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he reallly is
I believe Branyan posted a 2.8 WAR in the AL and managed to his 31 Homers in Safeco. I’d venture to say it’s SIGNIFICANTLY better than we have. He posted a 1.6 UZR which is 3 less than Murphy (really not that much) and was better in every hitting category. No comparison.
by METSMETSMETS on Jan 14, 2010 9:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm talking about Molina
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 9:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Even then
Molina is still better than anything we have now. Granted, not by a huge margin, but still better. I trust him more with the bat than I do Santos, also especially his pitch calling abilities. Also I trust him more than Blanco because of his everyday experience as a catcher.
Any little bit helps at this point.
by METSMETSMETS on Jan 15, 2010 3:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There's also Coste
maybe he’ll be better than anyone of them playing everyday, but it’s unlikely he’ll be better than a combination of them over the year, rather than one getting the starting job. And there’s no way he’ll be good enough to justify spending ~6 Million on him, especially when that money could go toward signing two pitchers instead of one.
there’s also definitely no way he’s good enough to justify focusing on signing him while other players are being taken off the market.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 15, 2010 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jumping to conclusions
you’re assuming that the Mets don’t continue to bargain down his price and for some reason have no capability on focusing on more than one player.
Of course I’d like to get two pitchers.. Arroyo and Garland preferably.. but I don’t think it’s in the cards right now. It seems like the Mets want to leave spots 4 and 5 open between Maine, Perez, Niese and perhaps Smoltz.
by METSMETSMETS on Jan 16, 2010 11:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What reasons are there to think they're negotiate below 6 million
when every report says they’re meeting in the middle and omar has a habit of bidding against himself and overpaying regardless of the market?
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 16, 2010 1:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Heyman just on Hot Stove (MLB TV)
Says Beltran thinks Mets front office is disorganized.
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
by The Glider on Jan 14, 2010 6:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Me neither
Apparently their big hire for the training staff this year was an administrative assistant to help with the paperwork. Oy.
by SuperT on Jan 14, 2010 6:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
thats false hustle, baby!
You know what I’m sayin?
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Jan 15, 2010 5:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sigh
I really hope they find a way to work this out
by Syler on Jan 14, 2010 6:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What's there to work out?
Beltran had the surgery. The Mets’ doctor (Altchick) agreed with Beltran’s doctor that they should do the surgery. There should really is nothing to be upset about. This is just a function of the Wilpons acting like little babies because “they,” didn’t give their approval … approval that they apparently did not have under the CBA or Beltran’s contract.
My big concern is, give his osteoarthritic knee, how is ongoing to do AFTER the surgery.
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
by The Glider on Jan 14, 2010 6:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
*
*how is he going to do AFTER the surgery?
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
by The Glider on Jan 14, 2010 6:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
thats the only real concern
I think they need to move him to a less strenuous position to preserve him as long as possible
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 6:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't you suggest 1B?
That would be great if it could happen. Don’t know how well he would make the transition from OF to IF? Different instincts.
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
by The Glider on Jan 14, 2010 6:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I firmly believe the Mets wanted a 3rd opinion to contradict the other two
so the surgery could be elective instead of needed, and they could save money on the worker’s comp claim.
you know what I'm sayin' ?
by fxcarden on Jan 14, 2010 8:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Or, at the very least, to trudge through his pain.
That much, that they wanted a 3rd opinion to agree with the first prognosis- rest, and no surgery- seems certain.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 15, 2010 8:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ellsbury?
The previously rumored deal, now Beltran, F-Mart and Castillo for Jacoby Ellsbury and Mike Lowell? Sox have too many CF’s and corner infielders, Beltran moves to LF for them (Hermida covers left till Beltran recovers), with F-Mart in the wings. Ellsbury is a young , speedy CF, Lowell takes 1B for us. Could happen?
by steve2z on Jan 14, 2010 10:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ellsbury just isn't that good
he’s definitely not worth f-mart, he’s definitely not worth f-mart if we’re taking on that huge amount of money owed to Lowell, who they have no place for. Ellsbury is a solid regular but he’s not that much better than average.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 10:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Also there's no such thing as having two many CFs
if they can provide plus defense in the corners they’ll be just as valuable as a big bat who provides crappy defense, a la Bay/Dunn.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Jan 14, 2010 10:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
jason bay played center field once
so we have 3 CFs
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 10:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Mets think he's good defensively because of it
Over/Under on how long it takes for Jerry to make Bay the center fielder?
I give 4 weeks
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Jan 15, 2010 5:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
permanently or temporarily?
luckily i think even Jerry will stick with Pagan in CF since he already put him there last season. He’s not my first choice there, as he’s better suited to a corner, but he’s still worlds above Bay defensively
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 15, 2010 10:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
are you out of your fucking mind?
If I trade those 3 to the Red Sox, I want at least Ellsbury, Bucholz and a couple of their top prospects.
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Jan 15, 2010 5:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe i'm just not paying attention but should I want either Ellsbury or Lowell on the Mets?
my brain tells me no, but my heart also tells me no. which one to listen to…
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 15, 2010 10:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well what do your guts tell you?
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Jan 15, 2010 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not a troll
I am simply showing my displeasure with one mr. beltran who has repeatedly be out of the lineup due to knee injuries, and he did 3 years ago refuse surgery. I am an avid mets fan.
by Tophubufu on Jan 15, 2010 11:57 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
You sure have a funny way of showing it.
But, don’t let the facts get in the way of anything, you know?
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 15, 2010 12:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he's appeared in over 140 games every year except last year since he became a met
I hardly think you can classify him as repeatedly being out of the lineup due to knee injuries. He had one injury this year that kept him out for a while, but its not like he has a long history of hurting himself. As for consistently inconsistent, Beltran has put up All-star numbers in CF with the Mets. Even last year where he missed half the season he put up a WAR of 2.9, which is more than most teams get out of a full season with their center fielder. Hoping the Mets sue one of their star players for getting an operation he needed AFTER clearing it with the Mets medical staff is ridiculous.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 15, 2010 1:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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