The Carlos Beltran Quagmire
So that just happened. The official word is this.
Mets centerfielder Carlos Beltran had worsening of osteoarthritis of the right knee during the offseason. He had not been experiencing pain following the conclusion of the season and into his early offseason conditioning. The symptoms returned to the point where pre-spring training conditioning became too painful.
He elected to undergo arthroscopic clean out of the arthritic area of his knee by Beltran's personal physician Dr. Richard Steadman today in Colorado. He is anticipated to return to baseball activities in 12 weeks.
Don't be fooled by the '12 weeks' business; it's a smokescreen. Beltran will be recovering for at least the next three months, which puts us in the middle of April before he's even doing things that baseball players do -- running, swinging, dancing gaily, shootin' up 'roids, and so on. Though the Mets should have learned by now to be conservative in their prognoses, I'm not particularly sanguine that Beltran will be running full-speed by the end of the twelve-week timeframe the Mets have propounded. It's probably even-money that he won't begin a rehab assignment until at least the beginning of May, and nobody who has been following this team over the past few seasons would even raise an eyebrow if Beltran didn't return until June.
Ted Berg calls the news of Beltran's surgery a 'gut punch', and that may be putting it too lightly. The Mets already had a lot of work left before Opening Day, like finding another starting pitcher (or two), a catcher, a second-baseman with some discernible agility in the field, and some bullpen help, to say nothing of the front office and coaching staff, which could both use an overhaul like nobody's business. Now they have to settle for sub-Beltran production in center field for the foreseeable future and possibly scramble to come up with a reasonable 'Plan B'. Some possible replacements for Beltran in the (hopefully) short term.
Angel Pagan - The most obvious fill-in candidate is the one the Mets already have. Pagan hit .306/.350/.487 (.358 wOBA) in 343 plate appearances last season, though I suspect that .352 BABIP will regress some. UZR seemed to like him in left field (+4.5 in 146.2 innings) but less so in center (-0.3 in 506.1 innings), though the latter rating is basically average and average > poor. Plus/Minus liked him everywhere, rating him a +12 in left (7 runs saved) and a +7 in center (4 runs saved). Even if his batted ball results fall more in line with his components (line drive rate especially), if he can keep the power up he might still hit .275/.320/.450, which would put him around the middle of the pack among National League center fielders. He's already under contract for pennies on the dollar, and the Mets could do -- and have done -- far worse.
Endy Chavez - You can probably cross Endy off the list, as he's out until May. Still, he's a personal favorite and would be a solid bargain purchase for later in the season.
Rick Ankiel - He remains unsigned and probably won't get much when he eventually lands somewhere. UZR and Plus/Minus agree that he's not much to look at in the field, though he was a two-win player as recently as 2008, when he hit .264/.337/.506 with a .360 wOBA and a 124 RC+. He's considerably better against lefties than righties, so he couldn't realistically be used in a platoon arrangement with Pagan. The money factor alone makes Ankiel a fairly attractive option.
Rocco Baldelli - Hasn't played much. Missed all of 2005, had 387 plate appearances in 2006, 150 in 2007, 90 in 2008 (all with the Rays), and 164 last season with the Red Sox, where he hit .253/.311/.433. UZR and Plus/Minus both rate him above average in center for his career. He's also a righty and has predictably hit much better against lefties overall, so if we hold tight to the platoon idea Baldelli could match up well with Pagan (or Ankiel, I suppose, though the fact that the Mets already have Pagan pretty much settles that one. I think.).
Randy Winn - The defensive metrics are basically meh on Winn in center field, but they love him in right. He'll be 36 in June and he was awful at the plate last year -- .262/.318/.353, 82 wRC+ -- after hitting well in both 2007 and 2008. Despite his dreadful batting line he was still worth almost two wins (Winns!) in 2009, and was worth 4.6 and 2.8 in 2008 and 2007, respectively. Not a bad option.
Johnny Damon - Great bat, stinky glove, especially in center. He's a Type-A free agent but the Yankees didn't offer him arbitration so any team can sign him for money alone. Might actually be interesting at first base if nobody else makes him a substantial offer to play the outfield.
I suspect it'll just wind up being Pagan for two-plus months while we all simultaneously hope for him to keep up his 2009 level of production and for Beltran to get better quickly. Of course, there's still this to consider.
Indications developed late Wednesday night that suggested Beltran had undergone the procedure without the club's approval, though not without its knowledge of the situation. He had been examined by Steadman in late June shortly after he began his extended assignment to the disabled list. He had sought a second opinion from Steadman, who pioneered the micro-surgery procedure that several professional athletes have undergone in recent years, at the suggestion of his agent Scott Boras, but with the club's blessing.
Evidently, the blessing was missing in his most recent scenario, according to one person who became familiar with the situation.
I'm not sure I'd make too much of this, but I'll confess that I'm not familiar with the potential contract-related ramifications of Beltran proceeding with a surgical procedure without the Mets' prior authorization. If there's nothing they can do -- or if they're not inclined to do anything, which in practice is the same thing -- I expect them to chalk this up to a 'miscommunication' or somesuch and call it a day. The Mets' medical staff and its handling of injuries have taken a number of shots to the face in the past year, some deserved and some not. If the Mets aren't going to pursue any recompense for Beltran's alleged malfeasance then the whole organization will be better served by sweeping this clandestine surgery storyline under the rug.
But hey, pitchers and catchers report in a month, so we've got that.
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Well this comment from Jerry Manuel makes me feel so much better
Manager Jerry Manuel, contacted at his home in Sacramento, said he had learned of not only the surgery but of the need for it Wednesday night. “I’m sitting down now with a pen and pad, trying to figure some things out,” he said.
Really Jerry? Pen and paper? Aren’t we passed that stage?
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Jan 14, 2010 6:35 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Hold on guys, I have the solution
I just have to scan in the granite tablet on which I chiseled said answer. MFer is heavy.
by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Jan 14, 2010 8:31 AM EST up reply actions
Nothing wrong with a good old-fashioned pen and pad
Though I’d recommend a pencil. With an eraser.
by DoghouseBlues on Jan 14, 2010 9:03 AM EST up reply actions
It makes more sense when you consider
That he was contacted by carrier pigeon.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Jan 14, 2010 9:08 AM EST up reply actions
thats paperwork Jerry
and you know how we feel about paperwork
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
FUCKPISSWANKBUGGERSHITTINGASSHEADANDHOLE.
Oh, the butcher and the baker and the people on the street: wheredotheygo?!?!?
by CharlieH on Jan 14, 2010 7:12 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Just trying to reconcile all the information.
Obviously:
1)I don’t have a medical degree.
2)I don’t have access to Beltran’s medical records, exams, consults.
3)I don’t have any access to Mets officers.
So, why couldn’t he do it sooner?
“He had not been experiencing pain following the conclusion of the season and into his early offseason conditioning. The symptoms returned to the point where pre-spring training conditioning became too painful.” Someone mentioned in the other thread that this kind of problem with knee is all about pain management.
Why did he do it against the team’s wishes?
3 separate issues: Did the team know he was going to have surgery? Did the team agree with the surgery? What surgery was he schedule to make and what surgery did he actually make? As far as I know, micro fracture surgery and arthroscopic clean out are very different procedures.
Yes, Yes, arthroscopic, arthroscopic: no problem, or at most, miscomunication
Yes, Yes, arthroscopic, micro fracture: the reports apparently ruled out micro fracture. Some people might have speculated that earlier because Dr. Richard Steadman performed the surgery.
Yes, No: “Sherman cites a third source who says this was not microfracture surgery, "but standard scope and Mets team physician Dr. David Altchek and team were OK on this."” Kevin Burkhardt reported that the Mets didn’t agree with it. There is some disagreement here.
No: Apparently even Jerry knew.
When the story broke out, many reports were pure speculation and flat out wrong. I’m taking that later reports are more accurate than earlier reports, but they can still be wrong.
I don't know the whole story either, but, concerning him doing it sooner:
Carlos Beltran is seemingly always playing with little nagging problems. Very often, when he’s asked, he feels “85%”, or “90%”, or some other percentage that isn’t 100%, but is pretty close. He probably felt, going into the off-season, that any lingering little pains would either go away as time passed, or that he’d be able to ignore them and play through them, like he does with most of the other nicks and bruises that he accrues over the season. Then, he started doing his off-season conditioning things to get him ready for the season, and it got bad, to the point that he decided he wanted the surgery.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 14, 2010 8:34 AM EST up reply actions
Poor guy. 5 healthy years and he'd be going to the Hall. Now this.
If he can’t handle the rigors of preSpring Training, what are the chances he’ll be able to handle a 162 game season?
Osteoarthritis can be very bad news.
by SeanSchirmer on Jan 14, 2010 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
this sucks
I can’t believe he is out again with the knees, what is he 70 years old…this just sucks. Last year he was really starting to look like a consistent hitter that we paid for, now we will be lucky if he is swinging at the all-star break. Plus he will probably be slower, wonder how it will effect his coverage of CF
Yeah he wasn't much of a hitter until 2009
Right
by James Kannengieser on Jan 14, 2010 8:52 AM EST up reply actions
It's amazing how some fans persist in their subtle dislike of Beltran
A commenter on Metsblog wondered if him having surgery w/o permission meant that the Mets could void his contract. Yeah, his is the contract that is an albatross. Right.
The same comment has been made here.
I think on the large comment thread below.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jan 14, 2010 9:31 AM EST up reply actions
Just reading through the thread now. It seemed people brought up the possibility but decried it. Over there some people appear giddy about the prospect.
Here's the money Metsblog comment:
What are the chances that they solve this amicably and Beltran says "I was wrong to do that. I’m sorry. I will play harder this season than I’ve ever played before."
About time Beltran starts playing hard.
by Bieser's Balk on Jan 14, 2010 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
so we've added him to the slacker list with reyes now eh?
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
absolutely
If you’re scoring at home, it goes something like this
Francoeur puts off surgery to go on golf trip: Gamer, great guy
Beltran gets surgery to get on field ASAP when he could have waited until the spring, got worse, had the surgery then and collected all his money: Lazy, slacker, needs contract voided
For the record, I don’t care that Francoeur went on that trip, I just know if Beltran/Reyes did the world would end.
by Bieser's Balk on Jan 14, 2010 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
yeah i dont mind the frenchy thing
he’ll still be back for spring training and there was no way he could have made his injury worse, so might as well have a little fun before he does surgery and rehab.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
It's amazing how great that little "who cares?" Minor League trade that Omar made to bring Pagan back into the organization feels right now...
(It’s not like he didn’t contribute last season, or the year before, but…)
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 14, 2010 8:35 AM EST reply actions
yes Omars foresight is truly our savior
Pagan will be invaluable this coming season for sure, but I refuse to praise Omar for his planning on anything anymore.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
Omar and foresight do not belong in the same sentence, unless the two are opposing each other. That was just dumb "luck".
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 14, 2010 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
yeah that statement was pure scathing sarcasm
i apologize for any confusion about its sincerity
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
You had me worried there for a second...
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 14, 2010 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
sorry bout that
when in doubt with me, its usally safe to err on the side of sarcasm.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
Oh c'mon
We’ve been through on this blog that he’s a decent talent evaluator. How he handles situations such as these and creates depth shouldn’t have to do with it. He’s capable of a good trade.
Trying to believe is my full-time occupation.
Tell that to Brian Bannister.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 14, 2010 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
or
Aaron Heilman, Joe Smith, Endy Chavez, Jason Vargas, Mike Carp, Ezequiel Carrera and Maikel Cleto
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
oh we meant good for the players going away
in that case absolutely yes, but good for the Mets, not so much. At least we got Sean Green out of the deal.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
I can only hope that, out of this 2009 season, we get a phenomenal 1st round pick in 2010's draft.
Not counting on the skills of the scouting department, but solely on dumb luck of our part.
We will
then we’ll wait until 3 months after the draft, and after he’s already moved into the college of his choice, to start negotiations.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
For who?
Doesn’t Beltran have a year on his contract after this?
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Oh wait I see
but then we’ll either fail to sign that player or take a college reliever.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
You guys expect a flawless GM
our GM, while very much flawed, isn’t completely inept. Every single general manager will make good trades and bad ones. Omar seemed invincible in his first 2 years on the job. Not every move is going to turn to gold. While he has made a handful of poor trades, it’s his inaction (not building enough depth) that ultimately is his downfall
Trying to believe is my full-time occupation.
Most of the smart deals he made
he messed up by hanging onto those players too long. There’s really no reason to think believe those deals, and really mostly all he did was outbid everyone else for top free agents, were anything more than dumb luck and his true talent has been exposed the last few years.
Not to mention it’s not just the major league team, it’s the mess the entire front office seems to be, continued mishandingling of injuries, front office executives challenging minor leaguers to fights, not to mention all the rumors of power grabs going on the in the front office between Omar and Benezard, coaches throwing players under the bus poor building of minor leagues, outside of the 08 draft every draft has been awful and they apparently waited months until after the draft to even contact some of their top picks last year, not being able to get through a press conference without embarrassing themselves somehow. How many major league team’s front offices have as many embarassments as we’ve had in just the last year.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
My theory
is that now that Jeff Wilpon has seemingly took his father’s place within the organization, things have spiraled downwards. I mean exactly—ridiculous, unthinkable things have happened. But I just don’t think it’s all Omar’s fault. I think Jeff is playing a big part, behind the scenes, micromanaging everything and failing at it.
The unfortunate part is, all we see is this crap, without knowing the what’s going on in that front office. I wonder if Omar will talk about what went on when he is ultimately relieved of his duties.
Trying to believe is my full-time occupation.
it was classic omar, he just got lucky
he traded pagan in the first place, then brought him back cause he’s an “omar guy” luckily for him he happened to be one of the few Omar guys that doesn’t suck.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
What's the market for firstbasemen?
I would try to replace Beltran with Pagan/F!/replacement player with plus defense trifecta in CF and replace his offense at 1B. That way, when Beltran returns in the May to June area, we are not regulating a productive guy to the bench because someone (read Jerry and Omar)believes that less productive players (read Murphy and Francoeur) should get more playing time. Plus, we’ll improve a position on the team that needs to be improved anyway.
Think positive people! (shakes fist)
If there's ever a riot at Citi Field and Oliver Perez was the starter, I started the riot.
by meigs1414 on Jan 14, 2010 8:47 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
RUSSELL BRANYAN
He hit lefties better than LaRoche did last year, was rated as a better fielder than LaRoche last year, and he should come cheaper
Crap forgot about him.
That sounds good. Has he played a corner OF spot too? I might be confusing him with someone else.
If there's ever a riot at Citi Field and Oliver Perez was the starter, I started the riot.
eh
branyan is as big of a gamble as murphy but costs a lot more and doesn’t offer any platoon value. if we’re going to go the non-platoon route i feel that delgado is the best bet considering that like you said, suddenly we’ve got a lot of offense to make up and IMO delgado is the safest remaining option at first in terms of offense.
plus this way you’re not wasting any resources by trading for another CF who only plays regularly until June or trading for a firstbaseman who relegates murphy to pinch-hitter status. IMO murphy fits the tatis/super sub role around the IF (and i’d even try the OF again as needed) as well as understudy for delgado who i’d only play in 100-110 games max. that gives murphy more than enough ab’s (tatis regularly logged 300+) to continue to develop at the plate.
by Rob Castellano on Jan 14, 2010 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
Baldelli
It is really a wise idea to replace an injured player with the most notoriously injured player of the decade? (Maybe an exaggeration, but not by much)
-ACL tear
-chronic hamstring pulls
-some kind of mitochondrial or autoimmune disorder that has literally baffled medical science
What’s the O/U on his PAs for 2010? 200? 250?
they worked out the metabolic disorder last year
he’s on proper meds for it now, shouldn’t interfere with him playing a full season anymore. The rest is still a concern though, but could have been partly due to the metabolic disorder.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
good for beltran
Its his body. Screw the mets and their inept staff.
you know what I'm sayin' ?
by fxcarden on Jan 14, 2010 10:30 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Seconded.
If there's ever a riot at Citi Field and Oliver Perez was the starter, I started the riot.
long term repercussions
aside from the first couple months of this season, possibly the most damaging aspect about all this is that beltran and the mets are clearly not on the same page; not just about medical stuff (which first came up this summer) but really in general.
considering the fact that beltran is a boras client, we will probably have until the start of the 2011 season to talk entension before he clams up and waits for FA. now at this point, w/ all the talk about degenerative knee conditions maybe that’s for the best but IMO beltran is SO much better than all but a handful of center fielders that it’s still wiser to retain him.
but either way, at this point i really doubt either side will be all that interested in furthering this relationship past 2011. i can definitely foresee a scenario where we don’t make it this year, omar gets fired and the new GM trades beltran at some point in 2011. i guess w/ fmart and niuewenhuis in the upper minors and pagan IMO as a very intriguing young player we’re somewhat prepared but still, the thought of losing our best player doesn’t make me happy. suddenly all my talk about pagan getting ab’s in 2010 is coming back to bite me in the ass…
by Rob Castellano on Jan 14, 2010 10:48 AM EST reply actions
i'm going to love
when this team is struggling to stay in contention around the all-star break and minaya refuses to make any moves, because “getting beltran back will be like making a blockbuster trade”
"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell
confirming the golden rule of the Mets
Whatever this front office tells you , believe the opposite. Its all smokescreen with this organization. Beltran did the right thing getting as far away from their advice as possibile. If they really seriously pursue some kind of sanction agaisnt him, he should demand a trade.
Was there a small amount of political wisecracking in this thread that got baleeted?
Because I rather liked a joke that I made and I’m trying to figure out where it went.
Just FYI, Damon wasn't offered arbitration.
Jose Valverde is the only remaining free agent that will cost a pick.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 14, 2010 12:24 PM EST reply actions
still not an attractive option though
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 14, 2010 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
Not at all.
His numbers were declining pretty rapidly Until the Tankees built a whiffle ball park to replace Yankee Stadium.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 14, 2010 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think that's really true
Damon had a down year all around in 2007, but his offensive numbers in 2008 were almost exactly in line with what he did 2004-06.
Now, don’t get me wrong, I want no part of a 36-year-old with no arm and declining range (UZR shows a big drop from 2007-2009, though TotalZone still likes him in LF) who’s coming off a career high in HRs thanks to playing his home games in a little league stadium (17 HR at home in 2009, 7 HR on the road). But, I don’t see rapid declining, I see a steady level of production other than a blip in 2007.



























