Bengie Molina Signs With Giants, Mets Fans Rejoice
by Eric Simon on Jan 19, 2010 4:53 PM EST
Email
PrintPer CBS 5 in San Francisco, the Giants have re-signed Bengie Molina to a one-year deal worth $4.5 million.
Woot!
James Edit: More details are rolling in. Jon Heyman tweets that the Mets offered $5+ million, meaning Molina accepted less to sign with the Giants if the initial report is accurate. Ken Davidoff reports that the Mets' offer was "take it or leave it", in stark contrast with the usual M.O.
230 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I totally agree
Jerry and Omar assclowns for life
by Ghost of seven in a row on Jan 19, 2010 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
I'd have wanted him for that money
But I can’t say I’m terribly disappointed.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Jan 19, 2010 4:56 PM EST reply actions
It's not a bad contract
but then again he’s not really much better than Omir Santos, who is making practically nothing.
CHONE thinks he's a bigger upgrade over Santos
Than LaRoche would have been over Murphy. But yeah, I can’t say I disagree. Its really not a big loss. If he’d have been willing to sign with the Mets at this price, I’d have taken it, but I’m not heartbroken than he didn’t, especially considering Barajas is still out there too and now his market is virtually nil. I was hoping the Mets kept playing chicken with Molina until he balked, assuming Barajas would be long off the board. I’m still pretty glad it worked out this way.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Jan 19, 2010 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
As far as Laroche/Chone
Laroche has passed his Chone projections pretty regularly the last 4 years.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Marcel still doesn't figure he'll be much better either
James does though, of course. He was 2.4 WAR last year, but his BABIP was also a career high. I agree that 1.2 is probably underselling him, but I don’t think its all that much higher.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Jan 19, 2010 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
Well he's surpassed 2.0 WAR
3 of the last 4 seasons, which is why I think it might be underselling him by quite a bit. What’s weird is there doesn’t seem to be any real component of his numbers that says he’s a 2 WAR player, it seems like he’s just gotten randomely lucky in different areas 3 out of 4 years.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Yup exactly
That’s why the projection is so low, and its also why you can’t just do a linear regression on WAR numbers, each component has a different correlation rate to account for. One year he was a +6 defender, one year he had a 21% HR/FB and .276 ISO, one year he had a .330 BABIP. Those are all career peaks for him, and none of them really showed up with any other major strengths, they all kind of just happened at different times.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Jan 19, 2010 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
BtB had a post about him projecting 1.6 WAR
Which I think is fairer than CHONE.
by James Kannengieser on Jan 19, 2010 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I kind of agree.
But I wonder if “losing out” on Molina means that the FO has less convidence in the current state of the team and thus push harder for needs they might not filled if they got Molina, such as 1st base and starting pitching.
The causative relationship is that talent (plus luck) leads to wins. And that talent (plus service time) leads to payrolls.
Yeah that's another good point
Hopefully true. I just don’t know how big of an upgrade we can expect at either position. The SP upgrade would be big, but thats more because of Maine’s lack of durability, since any that SP that signs is replacing a guy who could be the second best pitcher on the roster (Niese) and the worst pitcher on the roster is pretty much guaranteed starts as long as he’s healthy (Perez).
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Jan 19, 2010 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
I hear ya,
but there are so many starting innings to go round that while I agree that Niese could be our second best pitcher, I think he would get plenty of innings since I can’t see our starters getting 950-ish innings esp. if we sign Pinerio, Sheets and/or Smoltz whose injury history are well documented to say the least. Plus, I think if Niese pitches well, the move Maine/Smoltz (just for arguments sake, I dont really think we have a shot) to the bullpen idea will gain steam.
The causative relationship is that talent (plus luck) leads to wins. And that talent (plus service time) leads to payrolls.
Yeah I agree, its just more difficult than it should be because of Ollie's contract
and Maine’s lack of durability. It would really be a shame for Niese to get buried, but I also doubt that will happen.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Jan 19, 2010 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
I doubt that as well
Although, worst case scenario is if Niese starts in AAA and has another start to the season like last year where his FIP rox0rz but his ERA is high and the Mets, once again, keep him in the minors for too long.
The causative relationship is that talent (plus luck) leads to wins. And that talent (plus service time) leads to payrolls.
I think worse case in that situation
would be the mets shipping him off in some awful trade thi
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
At least there should be some decent defense in Triple-A this year
Ike Davis WOOT! Lol maybe not much else though. Probably have Fernando patrolling CF again. Tejada shouldn’t start in Triple-A. Hessman? In the outfield? Uh-oh.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Jan 19, 2010 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think a little more time in AAA will kill him.
I think he’s definitely #1 on the callup chart now, and keeping his service time down and giving us a good plan B is much more comforting than having no parachute.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 19, 2010 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah I agree
But sacrificing 50-100 innings of better pitching than anyone save Santana and maybe Pelfrey is a pretty big cost. Hopefully it won’t come to that, either because the Mets sign someone legitimately better or because Niese forces his way onto the roster pretty quickly, but I’m definitely worried that the team could lose a few wins in the first half by keeping Niese down.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Jan 19, 2010 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
I just see the prices dropping on the decent remaining pitchers.
I’d rather go Garland for a year and re-assess and maybe make a run at Webb if we need to.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 19, 2010 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
Well thats assuming Webb doesn't get extended
Arizona certainty has the means to extend him.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
He's been very adament about testing free agency since the D'backs pulled that extension at the last second.
I seem to remember him saying he wasn’t open to negotiations of an extension anymore.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 19, 2010 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
I think having both Niese and Figgy in Triple-A
Makes the injury prone guys all the more appealing, and the “durability” guys like Garland less appealing. Niese could very well be better than Garland too, and as long as there aren’t lingering injury effects should be equipped for a full season workload.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Jan 19, 2010 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly,
and even makes Maine more appealing to me than to most. If the Mets are roughly a 84 win team, it makes sense to go after a collection the high variance pitchers. If some of them workout we can win 90+, if they all get injured we win 78. However, getting guys like Garland, who are just slightly better than what we have, makes our team a stable 86 win team which is a pointless middle ground to be. All numbers used for emphasis not accuracy
The causative relationship is that talent (plus luck) leads to wins. And that talent (plus service time) leads to payrolls.
I agree Niese could be better than Garland
and likely at worse just as good as him, but isn’t he a bit of an injury risk himself.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Garland and Niese would be just fine.
At some point I think we all assume we’ll need to replace one of Ollie/Maine. If Sheets is cheaper than Harden I’d be all for him as well.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 19, 2010 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
I think the problem is if Maine is healthy
then he’ll be in the rotation, and unless Ollie is so God awful they can put him on the DL for psychological problems, they won’t be taking him out.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
In which case Niese gets a little more polish in the minors and is a very cheap option next year.
He has options, and the budget will get tighter in the future.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 19, 2010 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
it must have been metsguy234's song
that swayed omar.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
We're safe
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
Oh boy, McCovey Chronicles
This should be a fun thread
by James Kannengieser on Jan 19, 2010 5:05 PM EST reply actions
Haha,
lots of gems in there as expected.
The causative relationship is that talent (plus luck) leads to wins. And that talent (plus service time) leads to payrolls.
1200 posts????
WOW
Jerry and Omar assclowns for life
by Ghost of seven in a row on Jan 19, 2010 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
That is a freak-out of epic proportions.
Hilarious.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jan 19, 2010 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
For once, it's not US doing the freak-outing.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 19, 2010 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
You haven't been keeping
up with Royal Review.
The causative relationship is that talent (plus luck) leads to wins. And that talent (plus service time) leads to payrolls.
Yeah, the thing with them is, though, what have they got to freak out about, you know?
They’re the Royals, and they suck (and, in my lifetime, they’re supposed to suck).
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 19, 2010 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
Umm...
I can think of some things they can freak out about.
The causative relationship is that talent (plus luck) leads to wins. And that talent (plus service time) leads to payrolls.
So far my favorite post there
was the SLOW BENGIE CROSSING sign
"I've been trying transcendental meditation, and that helps me be passive and wait on the curve. I've got to find something else to hit the slider." - George (The Stork) Theodore
Very funny
We appeared to have made the right decision based on those comments. Ouch.
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
This made me so happy.
I don’t think we would have been so angry because he have been expecting it since the end of the offseason. At least they have a supply of fat jokes for a year.
:-(
Fun for someone…. not me
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Whomever Sabean signs this off-season will make a good platoon partner with Ryan Gark-ohh... nevermind...
As happy as i am not to have Charlie Weiss, err, ... Bengie molina
I couldn’t leave a comment on McCovey Chronicles commiserating them. After all they have Tim Lincecum and we have Ollie Perez.
Asking a General Manager to slim down his budget is like asking an alcoholic to blow up a distillery.
by scott from peekskill on Jan 19, 2010 9:19 PM EST up reply actions
I'm just so happy
The Mets lobby Omar for a plan, and his plan, he likes his plan. The problem is that he didn't write his plan down 'cause that makes it paperwork, and that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?
Damnit
I was hoping you guys would pick Bengie and his .290obp up.
Who’s your catcher going to be?
Remember folks, I'm almost always wrong.
"Let Jason Heyward start the season in RF, and get the hell out of his way."
Tyreke Evans for Rookie of the Year.
Peyton Manning = Best Quarterback of all time.
At Arizona, our basketball team doesn't rebuild...we re-load.
Omir BlanCoste
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jan 19, 2010 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
It's not "Damnit" ....
it’s " Yorvit."
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
makes sense to save money then
Remember folks, I'm almost always wrong.
My sig was too long...
by Scott Coleman on Jan 19, 2010 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
"I was hoping you guys would pick Bengie and his .290obp up."
No one can pick Bengie Molina up.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 19, 2010 7:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That contract may not be bad...
but if losing out on him is the “price” we pay for Omar sticking to his guns on this one, I’m all for it.
Now go put that money to better use
Someone call Dayton Moore!
I think Omar is throwing the contest.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jan 19, 2010 5:09 PM EST reply actions
THANK YOU GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!
Only Omar wanted this guy, seeing as Omar is on the outs again with the Beltran fiasco, maybe he has even less say in making transactions.
Of course, Omar's gonna get killed in the media for this.
John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.
HOOORAY!!!
this is the best Mets news (Aside from the Mets HOF announcement earlier) i’ve heard in a while. Almost offsets paying Frenchy 5 mil per year to suck.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 19, 2010 5:14 PM EST reply actions
I remember in the Moore vs Omar thread someone mentioned
that Sabean at least was smart enough to let Molina walk.
I guess Sabean wanted to let it be known he wasn’t giving up his number 1 spot anytime soon.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
WFAN also reporting Delgado is close to signing with the Jays
so, what pitcher/bat are we going after with the xtra money?
the GM shot that one down.
And you guys can have Derek Lowe if you want..
Remember folks, I'm almost always wrong.
My sig was too long...
by Scott Coleman on Jan 19, 2010 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
fine
we’ll give you Frenchy
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Jan 19, 2010 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
Nevermind.
Actually, lets do it! We could just DFA him. I dont want him within 100feet of Jason Heyward.
Remember folks, I'm almost always wrong.
My sig was too long...
by Scott Coleman on Jan 19, 2010 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
Branyan
Piniero, Bedard, Sheets, Brynes
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Hell why not
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
our pitching rotation would be potentially devastating with those guys
if they managed to stay healthy, it would be a huge risk/reward type move, but it could be fun to watch a rotation of Sheets, Pinero, Santana, Pelfrey, and Ollie (who I hope would turn into bedard once he was ready to go)
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 19, 2010 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah i don't actually expect that to happen
but at this point we’re like 40 million under the lt and 20 million under last years payroll, I’m not sure where else it could go unless they just drastically cut payroll, which I imagine would result in a lot of pissed off fans.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
but we have no idea what their payroll limit is
and neither does Omar since they make him OK each deal on a case by case basis. Makes it hard to negotiate with multiple players at once.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 19, 2010 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah but that's what I meant about pissing off fans
if they payroll comes in way below the lt, when last year their excuse for not spending more despite opening a new stadium was not wanting to go over the lt, let alone well below last years payroll they’re going to have a pretty big PR problem, on top of all the PR problems they already have.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
What was the luxury tax last year?
I’m pretty sure we didn’t come close. Thought it was around $168m…
by SeanSchirmer on Jan 19, 2010 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
We came within like 3 million
because there’s an extra 10 million added to every teams AAV Payroll, I can’t remember what for but it’s to pay some compensation thing I think, we were at like 148 by AAV then 158 with the extra ten million.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
That's right--I'd forgotten about the 10m add on.
Benefits and something else…
by SeanSchirmer on Jan 20, 2010 12:20 AM EST up reply actions
Are you sure about that, KM?
If so, that would explain Omar’s utterly bizarre, counterproductive, one-at-a-time laundry list approach to offseason acquisitions.
You mean he doesn’t know ahead of time that this year’s budget is, say, $135m, and can’t therefore put multiple offers out there?
by SeanSchirmer on Jan 19, 2010 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
Wow--I wouldn't expect Omar to do well with a clean slate
but even a top GM would be hamstrung with that kind of uncertainty. It’s tough enough to build a club with all the uncertainties of the FA market and having to have all kinds of contingency plans for when you can’t get the people you want, but it’s ridiculous not to even know how much you can spend overall.
by SeanSchirmer on Jan 20, 2010 12:22 AM EST up reply actions
I fanshotted a quote about it
can’t guarantee its true, but it would make sense given the state of things.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 19, 2010 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
Well this isn't the first off-season Omar's been accused
of only being able to focus on one thing at a time, but it certainty doesn’t help.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
So even more of the blame goes to Freddie,
and we can expect that to continue even after Omar’s gone. Just great.
by SeanSchirmer on Jan 20, 2010 12:23 AM EST up reply actions
Well apparently he has to report to Jeff.
So I don’t know how much fred is actually involved with this madness.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Based on Fred's history before Jeff got involved
I have to believe Fred has not been the guilty party here. But
youneverknow.
"I've been trying transcendental meditation, and that helps me be passive and wait on the curve. I've got to find something else to hit the slider." - George (The Stork) Theodore
I feel like Fred's kind of like Joe Pa these days
the old guy up in the box trying to figure out what the hell’s going on on the field.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Yeah it was a fanshot
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
That is MUCH better than some of the proposed Molina deals had been.
John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.
In all fairness, most of the deals were probably leaked by his agent.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 19, 2010 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
Hey
it would be better than 4/48 for Ollie, at least we’d be moving in the right direction.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
It was 3/36 for Ollie
It only feels like 4/48
The Mets lobby Omar for a plan, and his plan, he likes his plan. The problem is that he didn't write his plan down 'cause that makes it paperwork, and that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?
Mike Hampton chuckles everyday to the bank.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 19, 2010 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
So does Bobby Bonilla
Oh, the butcher and the baker and the people on the street: wheredotheygo?!?!?
lol well still it would be better than the contract to ollie regardless.
keep hope alive!
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Is Yorvit Torrealba better or wose?
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
What is the market for him though...I'd guess 1 year and VERY cheap.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 19, 2010 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
better than Molina
but not a whole bunch, but he’ll be way cheaper.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 19, 2010 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
ranked slightly better than benjie by driveline mechanics
both are below average at -2.9 and -3.4 totalruns for Yorvit and Benjie respectively. Torrealba ranks among the leaders in fewest throwing errors, but he’s not great at throwing out runners. He’s actually above average at not letting wild pitches and past balls by him, but he’s a fair bit below average at throwing out runners.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 19, 2010 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
Gee, that names sounds familiar ....
where did I hear that name before? Hmmmmm. Oh right …never mind.
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
Wow
This offseason really has gone better than expected. We didn’t foolishly give Francoeur a 3 year extension, we didn’t get locked into a long term deal with Molina, and we’ve been smart about the bullpen. Even Bay, while expensive, was a fairly solid deal. Now just stick to a 1 year deal for a catcher (if we even bother) and don’t invest long term in any pitchers.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 19, 2010 5:24 PM EST reply actions
we have actually avoided doing anything excessively stupid so far
Bay was a slight overpay, but i guess we had to do what was necessary to bring him in, especially given the ridiculous market for Holliday
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 19, 2010 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
The Beltran saga wasn't excessively stupid?
mets can’t get through an off-season without some sort of egg on their face.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Ehh...
I have a feeling that won’t amount to anything but another black mark on Omar. At least it doesn’t involve wasted funds that could be used elsewhere.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 19, 2010 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
ok it wasn't stupid in a signing sense
just stupid in a PR sense, im separating the two in my mind
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 19, 2010 5:36 PM EST up reply actions
any other city in america
and you dont even know this happened.
I dont think its going to carry over. It kind of makes for a Pegan vs. FYF tryout. Once Beltran comes back, whoever is playing better can take over RF.
Any other front office
wouldn’t have accused a player of going rogue when someone had to okay the workers comp papers and called a press conference before figuring out what the hell was going on.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
SO SO SO SO SO happy
Although at that price Molina is almost a bargain. Hopefully the coinciding of this event and the Ben Sheets tryout means the Mets are kicking the tires on the right-hander. I would take Sheets for 1/8 with an option making it 2/20 or even 3/36, just thank you oh great Lord for sparing me having to watch Halladay strike out Francoeur and Molina back-to-back.
"F***ing shocker." -Billy Wagner
I agree with all of you
very very good news indeed.
As if
the Jets being in the AFC championship wasn’t enough – this is officially an awesome week.
I would really like to see them roll the dice with Sheets, now they have 5 million extra lying around, slightly overpaying for him would not be the worst thing ever.
No Fat Bengie, HOF for Straw and Dr. K
Between that and not having to use my AK, today was indeed a good day.
by LeiterMilnerFasterStronger on Jan 19, 2010 5:43 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Mark Sanchez and Rex Ryan
agree with you.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
+1
This
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage
by blueandorange4life on Jan 19, 2010 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
Glory Glory Hallelujah
Also, I’m with Sasser. Take a chance with Sheets
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage
by blueandorange4life on Jan 19, 2010 5:59 PM EST reply actions
not even that...
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 19, 2010 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
lol wtf
i hope part of his reasoning is that Molina is a cy young maker.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
the same bright mind that gave you Woodson as NFL Defensive POY
by Bieser's Balk on Jan 19, 2010 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
for this season?
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
yeah, Schein voted Woodson over Revis
not to go on a football rant, but i could see how someone outside of NY who didnt watch the Jets much could get caught up in Woodson’s stats and vote him POY. Guy had a great year. But for someone who got paid to watch Revis each week and not make him POY is astounding
by Bieser's Balk on Jan 19, 2010 6:09 PM EST up reply actions
I actually think nmandi is still better than revis
but I think woodson has fallen off considerably, he probably is in the top 5-10 of players I would consider for POY.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
This is where it gets difficult
Revis was thrown at 111 times and allowed 41 receptions, Nmandi was thrown at only 28 times, but allowed 21 receptions. Obviously they were scared of Nmandi, and they probably only threw towards him when they knew they could complete the pass, but Revis was challenged and still shut down the receivers. I think at this point you have to say Nmandi is better cause he’s done it longer, but I think Revis was better last year. Really, I was hoping the Jets were gonna sign Asomugha last year. I knew they weren’t, but how would a quarterback ever complete a pass?
The Mets lobby Omar for a plan, and his plan, he likes his plan. The problem is that he didn't write his plan down 'cause that makes it paperwork, and that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?
Those numbers are from profootballfocus.com
I know the numbers from Stats Inc are a little different for at least Revis. They have him targeted 108 time allowing 40 receptions.
The Mets lobby Omar for a plan, and his plan, he likes his plan. The problem is that he didn't write his plan down 'cause that makes it paperwork, and that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?
How many yards did Nmandi/Revis each give up
I know Revis gave up upwards of 500, which isn’t bad considering how many times he was targeted, but i haven’t heard any yardage numbers on Nmandi, outside of less than 100.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Revis gave up 425 (profootballfocus) or 439 (Stats Inc via ESPN) and 2 TDs
Nmandi gave up 246 and 1 TD
The Mets lobby Omar for a plan, and his plan, he likes his plan. The problem is that he didn't write his plan down 'cause that makes it paperwork, and that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?
The teams also have to be considered though
The Raiders D was ranked 26th against the pass and 24th against the rush by DVOA (footballoutsiders) and their offense as a whole were 30th. If the offense can;t score on you and the rest of the team is awful, why bother dealing with Nmandi? While I think he’s earned his rep and he’s 1/2 in the league, I dont think his numbers can be fairly compared. Besides, they’re both awesome and fun to watch what does it matter who’s “better.”
The causative relationship is that talent (plus luck) leads to wins. And that talent (plus service time) leads to payrolls.
That's exactly why I originally said it's difficult to compare.
The Mets lobby Omar for a plan, and his plan, he likes his plan. The problem is that he didn't write his plan down 'cause that makes it paperwork, and that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?
Also its possible that his 21 receptions
or some of them at least, were just completely blown coverages, on his part, or where he bit on the run and left his man wide open, and every other time he had someone in coverage he had them too locked down to even try. I’m not saying that’s the cause just that it’s not really possible to just look at their receptions/targets to see who had the better year, but it would explain how a player could give up that many yards on so targets and still rarely get targeted, considering the fact that nfl teams probably have these numbers, or more exact ones to study.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Woodson is better
His ability against the run is much, much better than Revis.
PS. I’m a giants fan.
by Mike Clemente on Jan 19, 2010 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
Revis never played against the run because he was always lined up with the teams top receiver
Why would the Jets take their top cover corner off of a receiver? I don’t know if Revis is better than Nmandi, but he is definitely better than Woodson.
The Mets lobby Omar for a plan, and his plan, he likes his plan. The problem is that he didn't write his plan down 'cause that makes it paperwork, and that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?
You play the run every time a running play is called and you’re on the field. They don’t take Revis out every time they suspect a run, just in goal line/short yardage situations. I don’t know how many times opponents ran to his side, but i suspect it was often.
Doing well against the run (guys like woodson and winfield are notoriously good at it) means you can shed blocks and tackle well.
by Mike Clemente on Jan 19, 2010 7:48 PM EST up reply actions
How often do the runningbacks get that far outside?
The reason Woodson was so good against the run was because the Packers would take him off coverage and put him in the box on multiple occasions. The had Woodson blitz the QB also. Revis’ assignment was always to cover the teams best wideout. Revis didn’t have the opportunities to stop the run as much as Woodson did.
The Mets lobby Omar for a plan, and his plan, he likes his plan. The problem is that he didn't write his plan down 'cause that makes it paperwork, and that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?
On top of that, regarding their coverage skills
I was reading the Packers blog and some of the fans were saying Woodson always had help over the top, Revis almost never did.
The Mets lobby Omar for a plan, and his plan, he likes his plan. The problem is that he didn't write his plan down 'cause that makes it paperwork, and that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?
Revis is better in coverage
The numbers support that. There’s no argument there. Defense is about much more than that.
by Mike Clemente on Jan 19, 2010 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
Meh corner defense really isnt
maybe if they were safeties i could see the argument, but if your corner is coming up that much to stop the run you have other issues to be worried about.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
we'll have to agree to disagree on this point
Same with blocking for wide receivers…its an underrated yet essential part of the position
by Mike Clemente on Jan 19, 2010 8:03 PM EST up reply actions
I think blocking for wrs is entirely different from run numbers for corners
there’s 4214124 different variables that could go into a corners run numbers, if their front 7 is awful and teams just run non stop on them and backs constantly get past the linebackers then obviously a corners run stopping numbers are going to be high, but that doesn’t mean they’re any better than another corner.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Also it's one of the reasons Im not as big a fan of stats in football
as in baseball, baseball is a team sport but its made up of a bunch of one on one easily quantifiable match ups. More than likely what the guy next to you does isn’t going to affect your numbers, in football its the exact opposite. If a guys a so-so corner but the guy across from him is completely clueless he may never get targeted. If a teams front 7 can’t get pressure and a guy is constantly left on an island he may give up catches despite great coverage.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Gina
try and collect all your thoughts into one reply next time, okay?
The Mets lobby Omar for a plan, and his plan, he likes his plan. The problem is that he didn't write his plan down 'cause that makes it paperwork, and that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?
but there's a big difference between seeing a receivers blocking
and looking at run support numbers on a spread sheet, insert basement joke, there’s too many variables to make any definitive assement based on the latter.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Completely agree
The Mets lobby Omar for a plan, and his plan, he likes his plan. The problem is that he didn't write his plan down 'cause that makes it paperwork, and that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?
I actually think the idea that corners are always lined up against top receivers
is a major fallacy, corners usually stick to one side of the field.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
I know
Revis was the exception. He usually followed his guy around.
The Mets lobby Omar for a plan, and his plan, he likes his plan. The problem is that he didn't write his plan down 'cause that makes it paperwork, and that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?
It depends tho,
The Bengals awesome (perhaps best in the league) duo of corners in Joseph and Hall stay on their respective side, which is why the Jets had Cotch and Edwards line up on the same to try to expose this. However, the Chargers would match up Jammer and Cromartie with the Jets top receivers even if both were on the same side.
Lastly according to Revis on the first matchup with Moss,
“I just covered him any way I could,” said Revis, joking that he followed Moss to the bathroom. “When he went to the sidelines and he sat down, I saw right across from him wherever he was sitting on the bench.”
The causative relationship is that talent (plus luck) leads to wins. And that talent (plus service time) leads to payrolls.
Its funny how clueless Fatcessa is
he keeps piling on like this is another thing the Mets screwed up on. He’s trying to figure out what went wrong. He is totally fooled by 20 hrs and “calls a good game”
A Giant fan called and shared our sentiments at having to re-sign Bengie
I wonder why the Giants even resigned him
I think his only purpose was to keep the plate warm for Posey.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Molina will definitely keep the plate clean
because he’s fat, you see?
by Bieser's Balk on Jan 19, 2010 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
Where is Jason Kendall when you need him?
Gas prices today are a lot like a pitcher's ERA. Anything under 3 is amazing, under 4 is pretty good and anything 5 and up is something you want to avoid.
GO CRAZY FOLKS, GO CRAZY!
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
I'm patiently waiting
for the measured, smart and analytical stupid, unanalytical and anti-“sabermetrics and cyborgs” response from Metsmerized to this great news, saying that its a bad deal, and Molina has RBIZZZ!!!
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
Its actually really not a bad deal for the Giants
One year less than 5 mil guaranteed? That does nothing but offset the risk of trying Posey. If Posey’s a beast in spring training or in April, be it in Triple-A or the majors, he gets promoted and the Giants add some wins while Molina’s an expensive but solid backup. If he struggles, they really have no one else. Now they at least get something out of the catcher position and even have the option of letting Posey develop a bit more in the minors and easing him into the big league job. Plus, they can wait a few months and delay Posey’s service clock, earning an extra year of team control.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Jan 19, 2010 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
How badly I wanted the Mets to give Valentin a shot last year.....
For what its worth, they really weren’t letting him catch much, I highly doubt he’s even considered a big league option, even though he should. Maybe his defense really has deteriorated. Barajas at less money is a much better deal, but that doesn’t mean Molina wouldn’t have been an upgrade.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Jan 19, 2010 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
Give me The Brother of Stache
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
* I meant to say bad deal for the Mets
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Jan 19, 2010 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
Of course the one day I stay off the internet to study, something good ACTUALLY happens for the Mets.
But watching Loud Mouths moments ago, all my happiness turned into a great desire to punch Adam Schein in the face.
by wrightttxgirlllx3 on Jan 19, 2010 6:26 PM EST reply actions
Haha.
I didn’t see it but I can imagine…
The mets failed to sign my guyyyyyyyyyy Bengie Molina! Carlin, this is a terrible job! Here’s a little nugget for ya Carlin, 20 HR and 80 RBI! He caught the back to back CY YOUNG AWARD WINNER!
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
Pretty close.
His main arguement today was “Clutch! This guy is a clutch hitter! Omar blew this one big time……CLUTCH!”
by wrightttxgirlllx3 on Jan 19, 2010 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
isn't frenchy clutch enough
I love how the few times omar makes the right decisions are when the media really chastises him.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
The Giant fan who called Francessa
said he is incredibly unclutch and his numbers are super-deceiving. Said whenever they needed a big hit he couldn’t come thru-sounds perfect for the Mets
Those are the stats Omar looks at! D'oh!
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 19, 2010 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
It's safe to say that you should be studying. It'll improve your grades and, ahem more importantly, it'll bring good fortune for the Mets.
If you studied quantum physics, we could probably get rid of Ollie and Castillo while getting A+ grade prospects in return.
I saw two minutes of that show earlier today...Fat Carlin is really clueless. I wish the Mets would dump him so badly...
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 19, 2010 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
Figures, we'd overpay him, give him a long-term deal, and he can't perform.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 19, 2010 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
He kind of really ticks me off on Loud Mouths
But I love him on Beer Money. Seeing people make fools of themselves on TV sort of makes my day. He helps make it happen.
by wrightttxgirlllx3 on Jan 19, 2010 9:12 PM EST up reply actions
Please don't take this personally
but if that’s what it takes for good news to happen to the Mets, you should keep hitting the books and stay off AA (joking)
"I've been trying transcendental meditation, and that helps me be passive and wait on the curve. I've got to find something else to hit the slider." - George (The Stork) Theodore
Haha don't worry, I get what you're saying.
And you’re sadly right.
by wrightttxgirlllx3 on Jan 20, 2010 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
I'm gonna go do my happy dance right about now!
My happy dance, if anyone cares to know, consists of both the Charleston and the BoJangles.
The 2010 New York Mets: Maybe it's the Phillies' turn to have 95% of its roster on the DL
P.S. Rangers Suck! Flyers Swallow!
I thought the sun was a little brighter today.
But now what are we going to do with all these fat jokes?
by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 19, 2010 8:14 PM EST reply actions
eat them?
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Jan 19, 2010 8:18 PM EST up reply actions
Keep 'em. Well find a good use for all of them eventually. It's inevitable.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 19, 2010 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
Livan
3/36 with a vesting option depending on number of donuts eaten?
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Jan 19, 2010 8:21 PM EST up reply actions
Saw Sheets throwing for the scouts on MLB-TV tonight
All the analysts thought he looked really good. They showed film of his throwing; broke down his wind-up while comparing it, split-screen, with his wind-up from when he was healthy; and interviewed him.
But the MLB crew speculated that the Cards and Dodgers are likely spots for him because (you may want to sit down for this) …. he wants to play for a winner. I guess that takes the Mets out of the running.
Really, when you think of it, why not go to the Cards and pitch for LaRussa and Dave Duncan as opposed to let’s say …. Jerry Manual and Dan Warthan.
Any thoughts?
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
I'm offended the dodgers are seen more as winners than we are
I mean I understand why, but they shouldn’t be.
That being said would pitchers who haven’t pitched in a year are turning their nose up at you you have a problem.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Yeah
I’m just not feeling it, man. Still so many questions to be answered on the field. Maybe we’ll pull off some moves that will, hopefully, turn out right and give us that good chemistry … grission, if you will. Off the field, our front office continues to embarrass us. It’s just so hard to hang in there and continue to try to be optimistic and to continue to love this team. Back in ’67 and ’68, yes they lost a lot, but you still loved those bumbling and stumbling losers. But this crap over the last 3 years is nauseating.
I guess it’s like Seinfeld says, “you root for the uniform.”
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
I mean we're at least an 83-84 win team
which is exactly where the dodger is isn’t it?
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
oh wait nevermind
i forgot the 2009 season happened, i was thinking about the 08 dodgers.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Players can say all day long how they want to play for a 'winner', but at the end of the day, Mr. Washington has the biggest sway.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 20, 2010 12:50 AM EST up reply actions
That's true, but
do you think we’ll put up the money for Sheets now that he had a “great” session?
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
Yes.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 20, 2010 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Mets impressed with Sheets
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
"Molina can earn an additional $1.5 million in performance bonuses based on games started"
It’s a surprising move for both sides, because Molina had been negotiating a deal only days ago with the New York Mets, who offered $5.5 million in guaranteed money as part of a proposal that included a vesting option for 2011. But if Molina stays healthy, he would earn $500,000 more from the Giants this year than under the Mets’ proposal.
LOL
of course we offered a vesting option
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Ken Davidoff
on his blog, if you can read it through the paywall (second post as of now), syas that Jeff controlled the negotiations with Bay and Molina, so maybe he’s the one who’s option crazy. He might also be the one who gets credit for standing firm on Molina, but overall, this isn’t a good thing.
This is ridiculous
like are we sure that everything thats happened since 06 isn’t just some elaborate practical joke?
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
It almost makes you wonder if Omar is actually a decent GM
and Jeff has just kept a stranglehold on decisions these past few years? You know things are bad when we have to start second guessing if Omar is terrible or not.
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 20, 2010 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
Is it me
or is the sun shining a little brighter this morning?
Oh, the butcher and the baker and the people on the street: wheredotheygo?!?!?
That's because Bengie moved back over to the West Coast. That's why it's relativley cold in San Francisco.
Bengie’s standing in the way of the sun’s rays.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 20, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah,
all this global warming talk is nonsense. The Ozone layer is fucken fine. It is Bengie’s fat ass that is causing the world wide temperature fluctuations and the earthquake in Haiti was his fault too. The Mets told him he would have a limit on how much of the postgame spread he would be allowed to eat, had a temper tantrum, jumping around, and now look at what happened.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
This is good news
Bengie Molina has a little pop in his bat, but it’s undone by his terrible OBP and the fact that the only person in sports he can outrun is Rex Ryan (and if there’s a bacon double cheeseburger at the end of the race, I’d give Rex a shot).
So who should catch for the Mets in 2010?
I only hope when this mess of a man comes to NY next year
for his first at bat, the entire stadium will serenade him with a nice chant of…..“FAT-ASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS, FAT-ASSSSSSSSSSSSSS” until he cries.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
That's not called for.
It’s one thing to make fun of somebody’s weight behind their backs, but it’s another thing entirely to tell them they’re fat. That’s just not nice.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 20, 2010 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Recent FanShots
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
