Show Us Some Fernando
by James Kannengieser on Jan 23, 2010 7:00 AM EST
128 comments
Bringing back Fernando Tatis for 2010 was never a bad idea, as Ted Berg has noted this offseason, but it became especially attractive after the Gary Matthews Jr. (GMJ) acquisition. Tatis can play the corner outfield and infield positions ably. This flexibility would make him more valuable than signing an outfield-only player like our beloved Endy, or an infield-only player like Ryan Garko. The feasibility of signing a second base free agent like Felipe Lopez or Adam Kennedy would increase, despite Luis Castillo's presence. Take a look at this position player roster, which assumes Castillo remains with the team:
Each position is sufficiently covered. Five outfielders, a cheap Tatis/Murphy platoon at first base and passable backups at all infield positions. By the time Carlos Beltran returns, either someone will get injured or GMJ will become release bait.
The New York Post noted that the Mets might pursue Tatis if Carlos Delgado is not signed. As awesome as it is watching Delgado hit 430 foot bombs, he's a one dimensional player at this point. His projected negative defensive value makes him little more than a DH. What Tatis lacks with the bat, compared to Delgado, he makes up for with defense and versatility.
As for the double play "issue" from 2009 -- Tatis had the highest clutch score on the Mets in 2008 (per Fangraphs), and the 3rd lowest in 2009. Did he lose mental fortitude between the seasons and become a choking double play master? No, not at all. It's just the kind of thing that's impossible to predict, as far as I know, and is heavily dependent on luck and other factors we cannot understand. Tatis was indeed "unclutch" in 2009, but did anyone out there predict that before the season? The double plays seem like an anomaly. After being paid $1.7 million in 2009, 35 year-old Tatis shouldn't command a deal pricier than that. His old friend Omar Minaya would be wise to re-sign him.
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I had thought bringing him back wouldn't even be an issue
the man can fill in for so many positions should they go down.
Travis Hafner is made of gold
Yeah it makes absolutely no sense
That the deal hasn’t already been done.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
It would be great if they signed Felipe Lopez to start 2B.
But it would require a chain of events for that to happen: they get rid of Castillo, they can’t sign Hudson (Natinals signed him first or he asks too much), they actually consider Lopez for the job.
I don’t see them having 3 MI/2B (Lopez, Castillo, Cora) in the 25-man roster.
Also, I’m still not comfortable with Murphy starting 1B, even though the Mets have him as a lock for the job.
Tatis fits the bill
Omar overpayed for him last year. He’s a former Expo.
And he’s versatile.
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
seriously dude, whats with the long ellipses?
not trying to be rude or anything, but it is annoying, and I’m sure many would agree.
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Jan 23, 2010 7:31 PM EST up reply actions
that has nothing to do
with all the elipses (……………)
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Jan 23, 2010 7:34 PM EST up reply actions
for some reason I thought Tatis going to Seattle was basicially a done deal
Did I get that wrong or did something happen?
I would love Tatis and Endy to be signed. Third choice is Garko.
You probably thought it was done deal
Because it’s a smart move, and Seattle makes smart moves. Whereas the Mets, well, ya know.
"You know I am only teasing. I love you gals out there -- always have." - Keith Hernandez
I'd actually prefer Garko to Tatis, but I'd be happy with either.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
I like the idea of Tatis as the 5th outfielder...
But I’d still look to Brandon Phillips or maybe even Orlando Hudson before I looked at Felipe Lopez to fill the second base role, and I certainly wouldn’t like to see Castillo back unless it were on the bench.
I’d also trade Murphy and get Branyan if we were to bring back Tatis.
We still need at least 2 more hitters who can post 2-3 WAR in a full year and one pitcher that can do 1.5-2.5. And John Smoltz.
Why trade Murphy
when Branyan is a major injury risk and Murphy is a cheap bench player.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
I agree
I completely agree. Murphy will be fine at first. Tatis and the dp’s was a fluke. If everyone else is hitting than Castillo’s consistent bat is not a detriment.
by christopherm on Jan 23, 2010 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Castillo's bat isn't a detriment
but Frenchy, Santos’s, Murphys and Castillo’s bat making up 4/9ths of the line up is.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
We're trying to contend.
Not be “fine.”
Pretty much every position is a question mark, might as well improve anywhere we can.
by METSMETSMETS on Jan 23, 2010 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
At this point
I think it’s safe to say barring several miracles, or brilliant trades, which with Omar would be a miracle, we’re not very likely to contend.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
When you consider the exceptional talent at SS, 3rd base, LF, CF, ace starting pitcher and closer it would be a missed opportunity to not build a contending team around this talent level. Some people believe that five or six years from now the talent level will be as good or better than Beltran, Bay, Santana, etc, but if you follow baseball long enough or just look at the year to year stats of most teams that is not a given. How many of us thought after the 1986 WS that in 2010 the Mets would still not have won another championship? If you don’t grab the brass ring when the opportunity presents itself you may be in for a long drought before the next chance.
I agree it would be a missed oppurtunity
but what moves, within reason, are there left for them to do that this year?
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
I totally agree with your assessment.
At this stage I think that competent scouting and effective use of metrics may have to yield to dumb luck. If the Mets are in it at the trading deadline perhaps something good may come their way. But I think they will have to be prepared to take on someone’s bad contract.
BTW I remember you from my lurking days at Metsblog and you were one of their better commentators.
sb commenters.
LOL If I haven’t learner how to write by now I never will. When I was in college before the asteroid hit the earth that ended the reign of the dinosaurs we use to say "I couldn’t spell "enginur" and now I "is" one."
God help us
if it’s actually still declining, how much worse can it get.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
If we have Tatis to back up Branyan and David to back THEM up...
Murphy would be expendable… and if a deal involving Murphy would give us a key piece I’d do it in a second.
by METSMETSMETS on Jan 23, 2010 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
David to back them up?
Like David Wright?
Plus Tatis is like 50 and Branyan is like 50.5, these guys aren’t going to be long-term options or bench options, might as well keep Murphy now so next year we’re not paying 2 million for the Alex Cora of corner infield spots.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Davis sorry
I don’t know what point you’re making about Branyan and Tatis. I don’t see why YOU are being so stingy with money considering it really isn’t yours to spend and its perfectly within the Wilpon budget right now, Tatis is significantly better at his position than Alex Cora, and Branyan will give us 100 games and 30 home runs.
I’m not saying that we should just dump Murphy off for nothing but if he can get some return he’s really not that valuable to the team at all with the Mets making room for Ike Davis, Fernando Martinez, and with Jason Bay taking up left for the next 4 years.
If the Mets want to contend now, it’s not going to be with Murphy at first. In the beginning of the offseason it seemed ok, but as the year progresses Reyes and Beltran are becoming bigger and bigger question marks, and we didn’t get Holliday or Lackey, we just got Bay. If the Mets look to contend in 2010 they need some SIGNIFICANT improvements. O-Dawg is maybe a 1-2 win improvement over Castillo, Garland or Arroyo or Sheets as well. That still makes us a 87 win team in realistic upside. I bet the real number is closer to 84.
by METSMETSMETS on Jan 23, 2010 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
Because the fact they won't treat Castillo as a sunk cost
and we trade type A free agents to save 3 million dollars says its apparently not in their budget. And the fact we apparently couldn’t up the offer for Piniero to sign him over the Angels. Who knows whats in their budget, they’re 40 million under the lt yet seem to have no interest in spending it on pieces worth it.
And how is a cheap productive bench player not valuable to a team with 130 million already commited for next season, most of it to players clearly declining, who have to extend Wright and Reyes to at least fair market value. Plus Ike Davis at this point definitely shouldn’t be considered major league depth, he still has question marks and needs to prove himself for more than one season in the minors.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
The Wagner trade
was a tad puzzling, but I don’t find not signing Pineiro to be a sign that we “can’t afford it.” It’s probably more like we didn’t want to get into a bidding war for a pitcher who could very well suck. In terms of the “cheap, productive bench player” Murphy has no experience as a bench player, and considering we can get someone as good or better for a couple million in Tatis who HAS experience on the bench, Murphy becomes more valuable as a trade asset than as a bench player. I think you’re misweighing his value entirely. In a situation that he could help us land Phillips and/or Harang or another 2-3 WAR player I’d certainly rather make that deal than have him for 50 games this year and the SLIGHT POSSIBILITY of having a league average first baseman in the future, especially with Ike Davis doing as well as he has been.
You also didn’t address the fact that there is a dire need for this team to improve the rotation as well as the infield, and that Tatis, Murphy and Castillo simply won’t be enough.
I also still don’t doubt that there will be a suitor for Castillo.
by METSMETSMETS on Jan 23, 2010 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
Also
If the Mets offered arb to Wagner he likely would have accepted or taken it to a hearing, so the Mets would NOT have received those draft picks either way.
by METSMETSMETS on Jan 23, 2010 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
Why do you think he would have accepted?
When he didn’t accept it from Boston? And he had no chance of being a closer here?
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
I don't think he would have accepted.
He was adamant about landing a closer gig. He’s close to the record for most left-handed saves, and wants to get it (He needs something like 50 more saves). If he wound up staying here, his role would have been basically what Putz’ was supposed to be- 8th inning set-up, with the occasional save, when Frankie blew it, and he wasn’t used, or when Frankie was given a day off. At the rate he’d accrue saves like that, I don’t think he’d break the record. As it is, I don’t think he’s going to.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 23, 2010 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
Also as of right now our 4th outfielder is gmj
and there’s no 5th outfielder, Tatis can’t be the 5th outfielder and only back up corner infielder.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Because with players as injury prone as Branyan
and Pagan that leaves you too thin. IF Branyan and Pagan miss significant time, while Beltrans out, and even when beltran comes back we have no idea how he’ll hold up in cf and he’ll likely need rest, who’s left on the bench?
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
If Branyan and Pagan and Beltran are all out
which is a BIG if….
then Tatis would play first and Gary Matthews would play center…
by METSMETSMETS on Jan 23, 2010 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
How is it a big if?
Pagan has missed significant time the last two years and hasnt been able to stay healthy, the only reason Branyan hasn’t signed yet is he’s a major injury concern and most teams seem to think he’s probably better off somewhere he can DH. And Beltran is already out until sometime in April, which is just when he’ll be able to resume baseball activities not return to the major league club, and is an outfielder in his 30s with knee problems and no one knows how he’ll return and how much regular rest he’ll need.
And if Tatis is at first and GMjr in center, God forbid, who does that leave on the bench? or if Wright or Bay need a day off?
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Pagan...
Missed time in 2008 not due to some serious chronic injury but due to hurting himself while making a diving catch… There is nothing to suggest his shoulder will re injure himself
and in 2009 he didnt “Miss significant time.” He missed a week, maybe two.
Branyan managed to play 110 games last year.
And I wouldn’t imagine Beltran missing any more than two months. In a better-case scenario he should only miss a couple weeks.
Also, these “what if” questions are a bit non-unique to your argument, because we’re pretty much screwed if Beltran, Pagan and Tatis are injured in your scenario anyway, with GMJ manning center and Murph at first. Also your idea simply lacks the upside of actually MAKING the playoffs, which is the inherent goal. According to you, the Mets’ goal is to not make the playoffs, but have a slightly better worst case scenario.
by METSMETSMETS on Jan 23, 2010 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
The mets entire off-season
lacks the upside of making the play-offs, barring miracle seasons from a few players at this point our best case scenario is not being eliminated before august.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Well...
management has already gotten the team to the 83-84 win range, perhaps a 2-3 extra wins from the rotation and 3-4 from the lineup would push us to wild card contention. (Perhaps acquiring Hudson/Garland or Arroyo/Phillips, Branyan & Smoltz would aid this situation…)
by METSMETSMETS on Jan 23, 2010 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree about 83-84
I’d say we’re more around the 80 win range now. I agree acquiring a bunch of those guys would help, but they’ve shown no desire to acquire a second basemen if they can’t move Castillo, and at this point it seems unlikely we’ll be moving Castillo, as far as I know they haven’t shown interest in Branyan either. Basically if Murphy could be moved for a piece that would have long-term value I’m all for it, but I don’t think we’re going to be competitive enough at this point for it to be worth it to move him for a middling win-now type players, and really I doubt we could get much more than that for Murphy anyway. Maybe if they added Hudson, and Garland, and signed Sheets and signed Branyan we could be up to a wild card team if they all were healthy and performed but it seems unlikely they’ll make all those moves at this point.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
That's why it's important to recognize where we are.
I agree it’s an 80-win team, therefore we still need to sign a bunch of guys and take flyers on Sheets and Branyan. The FO obviously thinks otherwise (they must think this was an 85+ win team going into the offseason), since they’re apparently content to bring on Bay as the only real addition.
I mean, it’s remotely possible that this club could take the wildcard, but the chance can’t be more than a couple of percent. I put Phillie, Atlanta, Florida, Chicago, St. Louis, Milwaukee, Los Angeles, and San Francisco ahead of us.
by SeanSchirmer on Jan 23, 2010 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
really san francisco?
I’d probably put Arizona ahead of us before them.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
The same AZ that won 70 games last year?
I did forget the Rockies. They won 92. The Giants won 88 and I don’t think they got worse this offseason, though Sabean tried. I might be off on the Brewers. They didn’t do a whole lot this offseason and weren’t great last year.
by SeanSchirmer on Jan 24, 2010 3:00 AM EST up reply actions
AZ lost Brandon Webb for the entire year
and conor jackson, along with Snyder dealing with injuries, getting at least the first two back is going to make a big difference, plus I think Chris Young could have a break out year, or at least be much better than he was last year. But really just Webb returning is 6-7 WAR player, Jackson is probably around 3 WAR, that turns a 70 in team into around .500 pretty quickly.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Please no, let's get "REAL" players, like Michael Cuddyer or Lance Berkman,
how were the Mets able to get, Piazza, Carter, Hernandez, Leiter, Hampton, and Sid the Kid????
That’s what this franchise needs to do, and not waste time, money, and effort on the likes of Tatis and his ilk……………………
If you haven't, read this:
http://www.amazinavenue.com/2010/1/8/1235257/what-is-a-complimentary-player#storyjump
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 23, 2010 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
why would Cuddyer and Berkman be availble?
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Jan 23, 2010 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
If we could get Berkman, that would be great
but I don’t think the Astros are looking to trade him, nor would I want to give up top prospects for the guy.
"Three home teams advance, and the fuckin' Jets" - Rex Ryan
Olney says about GMJ;
“can’t hit for average, can’t hit for power, his defense ranks statistically among the worst outfielders in the majors, and, to top it off, rival scouts have been reporting that in recent years he has been a clubhouse negative.”
Asking a General Manager to slim down his budget is like asking an alcoholic to blow up a distillery.
by scott from peekskill on Jan 23, 2010 11:56 AM EST reply actions
Fits right in?
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 23, 2010 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
I'm ambivalent about the return of Tatis.
I have nothing specifically against him, and his versatility would certainly be useful. What the Mets SHOULD do is shape Nick Evans in the mold of Tatis- a utility-guy. God knows, there aren’t any positions that management is willing to use him at.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 23, 2010 12:12 PM EST reply actions
Evans may have too great a platoon split to succeed in the supersub role.
by SeanSchirmer on Jan 23, 2010 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
He'd need to be given some actual playing time to see if his splits are that "extreme".
Just give the poor guy some playing time!
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 23, 2010 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
Well they've been that extreme his entire time in the minors
but I agree give him a chance, hell he can’t be worse than GMjr.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
yes
because that would be so simple to do
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Nothing is simple, but attempt should be made......Derek Lee, anyone???
Lance Berkman, Michael Cuddyer, the Mets have dealt for Piazza and Santana and now they can’t get one of these good, but not superstar players.
How about Albert Pujols?
Throw in Joe Mauer to catch too. Send’em Milledge and Heilman, BOOM trade! WE DA METS WE GET PIAZZER MAKE-IT HAPPENZ!!
by James Kannengieser on Jan 23, 2010 5:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I mean Babe Ruth,Tom Seaver, Nolan Ryan, and others were traded, I'm no asking for too much, but why not berkman or pena?
and it looks like Met fans are settling for dregs, or flotsam and jetsam……………….
even a 2nd rate manager, 1b coach………….and so-so gm……………..oh, we’ve got a nice park, which david wright hates…..
Listen
No one here wants to be “settling for dregs”, but there’s being realistic and there’s saying let’s go out and get Prince Fielder or Adrian Gonzalez. If you have any reasonable suggestions for upgrading the team, the community would love to hear it. But coming here and whining that the Mets suck and Met fans deserve better without providing any reasonable solutions isn’t productive. None of the comments you’ve made in this thread contain suggestions for improving the roster. If you have any, go for it. Also, just a suggestion, maybe clean up the grammar of some comments — atleast lose the ellipses (………).
by James Kannengieser on Jan 23, 2010 6:36 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
Rec'd
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 23, 2010 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
+1
Realistic proposals for how to fix a badly managed team do not begin with “go get Prince Fielder”
rec'd
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Jan 23, 2010 7:33 PM EST up reply actions
Sean Green for Mauer and Joe Nathan
who was flipped for Pujols should’ve been an integral part of my AAOP
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Jan 23, 2010 7:34 PM EST up reply actions
Tatis? really?
there’s nobody younger and maybe cheaper who can bring the magic that Tatis brings to the squad?
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
I'm all ears to suggestions
Tatis isn’t thrilling but I really like that he can play a bunch of positions and still put up an average-ish .330 wOBA. Outside of Cora playing SS and 2B, and Pagan playing all OF spots, there aren’t any guys listed above who can reasonably play multiple positions. Plus Tatis is already familiar with the other Met players and seems to enjoy playing here, for whatever that’s worth.
by James Kannengieser on Jan 23, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
but i come here to have my thinking done for me
Do some paperwork and give us some options. If we’re going to be sucky to mediocre this year as a glance at your position roster seems to suggest, I’d like to see some new interesting faces. There’s no one in the minors who can play infield and outfield for next to nothing? I’ll admit, i momentarily forgot Tatis did hit those 2 grandslams that one time. I would question his continuing motivation: Tatis only plays in the big leagues to build his church, and I have to imagine after two seasons on Omar’s teet, that church is looking pretty sweet, with covered parking and awesome stained glass windows, probably in the style of Omir Santos’ t-shirt with lightning and shit.
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Jan 23, 2010 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
It's a megachurch, at this point. A few million goes a VERY long way in poorer places.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 23, 2010 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
You know anyone else who's going to hit TWO grand slams in ONE inning against the SAME pitcher?
Did anyone ever tell you that Tatis did that? Because, you know, he did. Just in case you haven’t heard Gary or Ron mention that. Ever.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 23, 2010 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
It's one of the coolest things that's ever happened ever
I say we keep on talking about it.
by letsgocyclones on Jan 23, 2010 1:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'm all for the Tatis return
except the guy stinks. I’m shocked any Met fan is still interested. Didn’t he prove last year he was an albatross to rallies. He’s a 35 year old washed up Roid user. Aren’t we trying to get rid of guys likely to break down?
remember when he got hurt down the stretch in 08 in Washington? What makes you think it won’t happen again?
I wouldn't really say that Tatis stinks.
He hit .282, above the league average, in 125 games, with 8 HR- the league average. He had an OBP that was about .40 points higher than his batting average. His UZR in the outfield was a positive net worth- 2.5 in left, -0.4 in right. Overall, his performance gave him a 1.5 WAR, according to Fangraphs, which is only .1 point less than his performance in 2008, his “break out” year. If anything, he was a little better than average, but certainly not sucky.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 23, 2010 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
i could not agree more
tatis would be great, even as a bench player, for the mets
You neve know when we'll need someone to hit into a double play.
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
or two double plays in the same inning off the same pitcher
That would be somethin
by letsgocyclones on Jan 23, 2010 7:56 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Tatis is a great use of a roster spot
for reasons everyone else has mentioned. He can fill in capably at a lot of positions, pinch hit then sub in the field—every big market team should be able to afford a guy like him. He’s even more valuable on the Mets, where the talent is so thin. It’s inexcusable not to have him signed by now. I didn’t think it was even an issue.
It's weird...
… exceedingly so, that Cora was a priority this offseason, while contractually, Tatis has been let free in the wilderness, considering their relative values to the team.
by LeiterMilnerFasterStronger on Jan 23, 2010 3:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I can't believe all the love for Tatis on this thread.
Do we have to pull up all the game threads from last season to read all the posts here ripping Tatis to shreds to remind everyone here how much you all hated him. Remember … one double play after another?
If I recall correctly, all of his stats were put up when the games were out of reach or at the end of the season. I don’t recall him being that clutch at all last year. The 2008 season was a different story though.
But, hey, I’ll go along with whatever you guys say.
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
So what's your prediction on his clutchness in 2010?
And what are you basing that prediction on?
by James Kannengieser on Jan 23, 2010 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah but the bars been lowered
when GMjr is your 4th outfielder Tatis looks like a HOFamer
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Rec'd
Speaks volumes for where this organization is and where the fans are at that people are getting excited about Tatis. Call me ignorant for ignoring sabermetrics. I use my eyes and last season the guy was hideous in big situations and a double play master. Check out his numbers with men on 3rd, so bad.
He's the best RH option left
Ryan Garko sucks. He’s a bad fielder, can’t hit right handed pitching to save his life, and has been under 1 WAR each of the last two years.
Tatis is incredibly versatile, and he’s ok from both sides of the plate.
don't you think it's a bit weird
to say you use your eyes then tell us to check out his numbers with men on third?
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Standard ridiculousness
I don’t need stats to decide who’s good. Now here’s some stats to show you why he sucks.
by James Kannengieser on Jan 23, 2010 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
I'd rather have Nick Evans taking that roster spot, I'm tired of watching old players
Tatis with men on 3rd= .154
Tatis with men on 1 and 3rd= .214
Tatis with men on 3rd, 2 out= .111
I’m not saying Evans is great, but I’d rather see a younger player learn with a higher upside than watch a washed up utility man who is likely to break down if relied upon too much (see 2008, Tatis and Easley, 2009 Everybody, 2006 Duque and Pedro, 2007-08 Alou).
I like Evans too
Just wish he got a shot down the stretch this past season. I don’t feel comfortable giving him a spot on the Opening Day roster. Hopefully he can mash in AAA to start the year and be one of the first ready for a call-up when reinforcements are needed.
What did those same cherrypicked stats look like for Tatis in 2008?
Men on 3rd: .600(!)
Men on 1st and 3rd: .412
Man on 3rd, 2 out: .278
There’s little to no correlation in “clutch” performance from year-to-year. Also, saying Tatis “broke down” in 2008 is pretty unfair. He separated his shoulder diving for a fly ball, iirc. More of a freak accident than an El Duque or Alou old man injury.
by James Kannengieser on Jan 23, 2010 8:51 PM EST up reply actions
El Duque had bunions. What's more freaky than that?
I mean, seriously. Look at that:
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 24, 2010 1:22 AM EST up reply actions
Okay, you neglected to mention the small sample and his OBP, and you left one out.
Tatis with men on 3rd= 19 PA & .368 OBP
Tatis with men on 1 and 3rd= 16 PA & .313 OBP
Tatis with men on 3rd, 2 out= 32 PA & .250 OBP
Tatis with men on 3rd, less than 2 out= 35 PA & .360/.429/.600
"Three home teams advance, and the fuckin' Jets" - Rex Ryan
Post All-Star break he only grounded into two double plays
and none after July 24. He grounded into 13 during the year, 9 of which came between May 31 and June 24. That’s why his double play numbers stick out so much, he hit into 9 of them in 18 games. When you look at the rest of his numbers, he hit .282/.339/.438/.777 with a .338 wOBA, 8 homers and played solid defense at first, left field and right field, and was even decent playing second and third. He’s better than you or I remember him being.
"Three home teams advance, and the fuckin' Jets" - Rex Ryan
by Evan_S on Jan 23, 2010 7:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
At first, I was opposed to bringing back Tatis, because of his DP tendencies last year...
But after finding out his WAR individually each of the last 2 years was higher than Ryan Garko’s combined WAR over the last two years, I’m all on board for bringing him back now.
Murphy and Garko are 145th and 146th best then
Keep in mind, if it were up to me, I’d also sign Branyan to create a pseudo-platoon at 1st.
What kind of team has: Mathews, Castillo, Murphy, and Blanco starting and winning anything???????
this smells like the same old thing………………..
Has anyone seen that double play machine kill a rally??? I was begging for him to strike out...
or the triple play when the genius manager decided to send the runners in the 9th v. philly? the mets need new leadership in the dugout…also, does anyone really think that Razor SHINES (WILL SHINE) AT 1b?? Cronyism is at play with Mr. Razor. I just might start watching Japanese baseball from now on, instead of the putrid product the Mets are putting in the field these days. Please, bring back Craig Brazell>>>>
Also he hit two grand slams
and God knows nothing kills a rally like a homerun.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Make sure you read
this brilliant post by an intelligent, and if may say so myself, extremely handsome, poster.
"Three home teams advance, and the fuckin' Jets" - Rex Ryan
I still think the thing that bothers my most this offseason is re-signing Cora.
His presence makes it more difficult to sign a player to take over as the primary second baseman.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
Alex Cora's presence is bad, period.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 23, 2010 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
Not work around the clock?
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 23, 2010 7:17 PM EST up reply actions
EXACTLY!
…..Seriously though, Cora is horrible at baseball, and it’s incredulous we even gave him $500,000, let alone $2 million
BTW, I was just referencing the commercial for that crappy new Harrison Ford/Ben Frasier movie
Every time Alex Cora counts his money, a Nick Evans somewhere out there in the world dies.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 23, 2010 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
That reminds me
who’s going to be Sock’s lab assistant now? How will he ever discover cold fusion?
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
I guess he's going to have to abandon the bullpen lab. That seems pretty hard to transport across the country.
Someone else is going to have to inherit it all. My guesses are Nelson Figueroa, and/or Ryota Igrashi. Figueroa, apparently, is pretty smart, and good with electronics. And, Igrashi is Japanese, so what applies to Figueroa applies to him automatically.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 23, 2010 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
Isn't this post more appropriately titled:
“Show Us Your Tatis”?
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jan 24, 2010 9:09 AM EST reply actions
Trying to keep it PG
“Show Us Some Tatis” is PG-13, I think.
by James Kannengieser on Jan 24, 2010 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
I'd prefer Garko to Tatis.
Garko cna play 1st and corner OF, so he does provide some versatility. The Mets would also get 2 more years of team control with him, as this is his first year being arb eligible.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
I'd be higher on Garko if it was a given he could play anything but 1B
I’m not sure you can say he can play corner OF. He’s played exactly 12 games and 76 innings in the OF in his career and I’m not even going to bring up his defensive metrics because of the sample. Granted corner OF is at the lower end of the defensive spectrum, but still.
by James Kannengieser on Jan 24, 2010 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
I remembered him making a position switch in the minors, but for some reason I was thinking he moved in from the outfield.
I had forgotten he was a catcher.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
Dude can't really play corner OF
Slow + lack of experience (and thus probably bad routes) = no bueno for you guys
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Whomever Sabean signs this off-season will make a good platoon partner with Ryan Gark-ohh... nevermind...
why not fernando .?
i like garko and branyan is to injury prone and his power numbers are dropping .hey fernando can play alot of positions and has some power but garko before tatis ..
his lightning in a bottle season was 08
time to move on. He’s a ralley killer and DP machine!!!
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