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Around SBN: The End Of Sabanball: Details, Barbarians, And Precision

Captain Kirk's Glove

via i9.photobucket.com

One of the more controversial prospects in the Mets system is Kirk Nieuwenhuis.  For those of you unfamiliar with Nieuwenhuis, he's a Center Fielder out of Azusa Pacific University, a small NAIA school.  Despite the low level of amateur competition, Nieuwenhuis's toolsy profile made him intriguing enough for the Mets to draft him 100th overall in the 2008 amateur draft.  He made his debut that year for Brooklyn Cyclones, the Mets Short Season-A affiliate, and managed a respectable .329 wOBA.  Moving up to the Hi-A Florida State League in 2009, one of the most pitcher friendly leagues in the minors, Nieuwenhuis broke out in a big way with a .359 wOBA (actually .374 according to his statcorner page, but since they don't have data for his 2008 season, I'm crunching the numbers myself using the method described by The Book) on the season and a torrid .396 wOBA from the beginning of July through his late season promotion to Double-A Binghamton. 

Though many consider Nieuwenhuis one of the better prospects in the Mets system, he was nowhere to be found on Baseball America's Top 10 Mets Prospects list this year.  To make things even more confusing, BA also named him the best defensive outfielder in the system.  Considering his offensive breakout, one would think that superior defense would earn him a Top-10 spot for sure.  Not so fast though, Sean Smith's TotalZone ratings--the most advanced defensive metric we have for minor leaguers--had Nieuwenhuis pegged at -12 in 106 games, which is pretty awful.  So what gives?  Is Nieuwenhuis a superior defender as suggested by BA, despite his omission from their Top 10 list?  Or his he inferior, as suggested by his TotalZone? 

Star-divide

First things first, a bit about TotalZone.  TotalZone is based largely on the three batted ball types--Fly Ball, Line Drive, and Ground Ball.  For Minor Leaguers, this data is provided by Jeff Sackman, owner of Minor League Splits.  This is a tremendous resource for minor league analysis, but it instantly raises a question:  With about six times as many Minor League stadiums in the U.S. as Major League stadiums, none of them nearly as well equipped or funded as a Major League stadium, how can we be sure these terms are defined consistently?  A ground ball is a pretty easy thing to name when you see it, but there's a lot of gray area when you talk about fly balls and line drives.  Fortunately, Sackman provides the data we need to check the results.  Consider these splits for the five hitters with the most plate appearances from the St. Lucie Roster:

 

Kirk Nieuwenhuis                                                                    Carlos Guzman


GB% LD% FB%
Home 57.2% 7.2% 34.5%
Away 53.0% 18.5% 28.6%

GB% LD% FB%
Home 43.8% 10.3% 45.9%
Away 43.2% 22.9% 33.9%

 

 

 

Brahiam Maldonado                                                                   Reese Havens


GB% LD% FB%
Home 44.9% 6.8% 48.3%
Away 42.8% 18.1% 39.1%

GB% LD% FB%
Home 38.2% 9.7% 52.1%
Away 40.7% 16.6% 42.1%

Francisco Pena


GB% LD% FB%
Home 45.7% 7.3% 46.3%
Away 44.9% 14.3% 40.8%

 

Perhaps more relevant for Nieuwenhuis's defense, here are the same splits for the top five pitchers on the staff by Batters Faced:

 

Scott Shaw                                                                          Angel Calero


GB% LD% FB%
Home 39.7% 7.4% 43.7%
Away 34.6% 19.8% 37.6%

GB% LD% FB%
Home 32.8% 8.5% 50.0%
Away 44.4% 18.8% 33.1%

 

 

 

Nicolas Waechter                                                                   Scott Moviel


GB% LD% FB%
Home 44.8% 8.0% 44.5%
Away 51.9% 10.4% 32.1%

GB% LD% FB%
Home 41.5% 6.9% 44.6%
Away 43.3% 17.5% 22.7%

 

 

 

Timothy Stronach


GB% LD% FB%
Home 50.5% 9.3% 32.0%
Away 44.3% 19.8% 32.1%

 

I'm not sure who the St. Lucie Mets have tracking Gameday data at Tradition Field, or what the term "Line Drive" ever did to them, but its apparently not a very liberally used phrase in Port St. Luce.  Every one of these guys had a higher LD% on the road than at home, and for seven the difference was greater than 10%.  The only player listed here, pitcher or hitter, who had a LD% greater than 10% at home was Carlos Guzman at 10.3%.  This just doesn't gel with what we know about park factors and the natural variance you expect to see in a stat like LD%.

How might we expect this to effect Nieuwenhuis's TotalZone?  Well, it means that there are probably lots of balls getting hit to him that would be called Line Drives in most ballparks but getting tagged Fly Balls at Tradition Field.  That means Kirk is being expected to field many of these "actual" Line Drives as if they were Fly Balls.  But we know that Line Drives are much less likely to be converted into outs than Fly Balls, so this is unduly hurting his score.  If more of these Line Drives were being called Line Drives, he would be expected to field less of them.  His failure to field the ones he missed would hurt his score less and his ability to field the ones he did would benefit his score more.  In addition, the balls being mistaken for Fly Balls aren't just any arbitrary Line Drives.  They're likely more of the "fliner" variety; that is, balls that bear more resemblance to Fly Balls than the average Line Drive.  That means the set of remaining Line Drives are also more difficult to field than we expect the average Line Drive to be, again hurting Nieuwenhuis's score. 

To put all this another way, we usually expect BABIP to be about .730 on Line Drives and .150 on Fly Balls (this is true in the Majors, those numbers might be different in the Minors, but we can still use them here for the sake of argument).  Because of the classification discrepancy at Tradition Field, these expected rates are probably both quite a bit higher if we're using the house definitions of Fly Ball and Line Drive.  Nieuwenhuis should have been expected to field fewer balls called "Line Drives" and fewer balls called "Fly Balls".  This is an interesting quirk of looking at BABIP by batted ball rate.  Changing a group of plays from one classification to another will often cause the BABIP of both rates to move in the same direction, not opposite ones, but that's a subject for another time.  Because all this only applies to his home games, we should also expect that Kirk's TotalZone rating would be much lower at home than on the road, and indeed it is.  Its listed as -11 at home and -1 on the road.

While this tells us that Nieuwenhuis probably wasn't nearly as bad as his -12 TotalZone suggests, it still doesn't tell us how much better he is.  To figure that out, we'd have to figure out exactly how much we should be regressing LD% and FB% for games at Tradition Field.  We can guess that he's at least a decent fielder, but beyond that, we don't really know.  Here are a few more things to consider when trying to resolve TotalZone with Baseball America's suggestion that he's the top defensive outfielder in the system.  From Sean Smith's article about translating TotalZone to the minors, a few choice paragraphs:

Are these ratings useful?

For the ratings to be useful, they need to correlate from one level to another. If we knew a player had a +15 rating one year, that would be of no use unless it told us that he was likely to continue to post good ratings in future seasons, at higher levels of the minors. Preliminary investigation shows that these ratings are more useful for infielders than outfielders. The correlation is much lower for outfielders, though at least they are (usually) positive. I’ve found that you can usually get a correlation of 0.50, meaning you regress 50 percent to the mean, at about 350 chances for infielders. This represents less than a full season of chances for second, third and short. For outfielders, you need about two full seasons of data to regress 50 percent, or about 1,000 chances.

How do they translate from one level to the next?

For infielders, players perform worse, relative to the league, as they move up in levels. In other words, major league third basemen are better fielders than Triple-A third basemen, who are in turn better than players in the lower minors. For outfielders, the picture is less clear. For center fielders, the relative performance is relatively flat. Give or take a run or two, the average center fielder in Low A is about as good as the average major league center fielder. For corner outfielders, it appears that the quality of fielding, by looking at players who move up in levels, is lower as you move up in level, with major leaguers being the worst!

This was a bit hard for me to believe. There are some reasons that it could be possible—players lose speed relatively quickly, and outfield range is highly dependent on speed. Also, the lower levels of the minors use the DH in every game, which probably cuts down on the Adam Dunn and Pat Burrell types in minor league outfields. Another thing to consider is that players like Dunn were not the same lumbering plodders in the minors. At age 21, he was likely a good bit lighter on the scale and faster in the field. Major league outfielders, especially at the corners, are selected more for their bats than their gloves, and while having a lot of bulk muscle helps you hit for power, it does not help you chase down fly balls.

There are two important takeaways here.  First, that a single season of defensive data isn't really enough to accurately apply TotalZone to outfield defense. Second, whatever Nieuwenhuis's "actual" defensive ability currently is, we would expect it to be pretty much the same regardless of level.  If he's an average Center Fielder in the Florida State League, he'd be about an average Center Fielder in the Majors.  This doesn't tell us how good he'll be a few years from now--its possible that he fills out and loses some speed and mobility, and also possible that he improves his technique and route running. But once we get a large enough sample size of accurate data, we should have a pretty good idea of how good of a defensive outfielder Nieuwenhuis is right now.

The other thing to consider is that the Mets just aren't that deep in outfielders.  In the Full Season leagues, aside from Nieuwenhuis, the only major prospect of note this year was Fernando Martinez, who only played part of the year in the minors before getting called up and eventually shut down due to injury.  There were some other players who played a corner outfield position pretty consistently, such as Carlos Guzman and Lucas Duda, and there are a few  interesting defensive talents in the lower levels.  None are clearly superior to Nieuwenhuis defensively though.  So really, by saying he's the best defensive outfielder in the system, all BA is saying is that Nieuwenhuis is a better defensive outfielder than Martinez.  Martinez is solid fielder in his own right, but hardly spectacular, so saying Nieuwenhuis is the best defensive outfielder in the system really isn't saying an awful lot.

So we started with two apparently opposing views on Nieuwenhuis's defense, the old "Stats vs. scouts myth" as James likes to call it.  As it turns out, put in proper context, the two perspectives line up much better than it appears at first glance.  Calling someone the best defensive outfielder in a system weak on Center Fielders isn't a very strong statement, and because of circumstances beyond its developer's control, TotalZone's unfavorable rating of Captain Kirk probably isn't accurate either.  Its a good example of how using Minor League batted ball rates can be misleading.  In some cases, there are workarounds for this problem.  Rather than using HR/FB for minor leaguers, try using HR/BIA, a statistic that combines the "Fly Ball" and "Line Drive" classifications into one far less ambiguous group.  Instead of tRA, especially for quick-checks, FIP is probably a better go-to DIPS type pitching statistic, even if the method is a bit less rich.  Unfortunately, there is no alternative like this for defensive ratings.  TotalZone is still the best method of quantifying minor league defense I've seen so far, and I encourage its use, but its important to either do the due diligence on it or take it with a grain of salt. 

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I really enjoy these in depth looks at the minor leaguers

Cap’n Kirk has intrigued me for a while, its nice to see the numbers put in the proper perspective.

by KeithsMoustache on Jan 6, 2010 6:54 PM EST reply actions  

Have we decided if BA is calling Nieu the Mets best defensive OF prospect or

if it’s just Adam Rubin? I still think that Rubin gave Kirk the spot more because he didn’t want to leave him completely off the prospect summary which would reflect really poorly on him if Nieu continues to hit like it’s August 2009.

the number one issue facing the Mets is finding that one guy who’s going to say "get on my shoulders and ride me to the championship."

by Sokojoe on Jan 6, 2010 7:01 PM EST reply actions  

I'm still convinced it was Rubin

But he gets enough ribbing for other reasons, if BA was stupid enough willing to let him do their analysis, they deserve the credit just as much as he. Plus it gave me an excuse to talk about a non-conflict between a scouting claim and a statistical claim.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Jan 6, 2010 7:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Word,

sounds good to me.

the number one issue facing the Mets is finding that one guy who’s going to say "get on my shoulders and ride me to the championship."

by Sokojoe on Jan 6, 2010 8:53 PM EST up reply actions  

pretty certain it was rubin as well

i email with him from time to time and just about everything that was written up in the BA report lines up w/ his opinions so i just took it to be a rubin report, disseminated by BA.

by the way, really great post. after all of the major league stuff has been rehashed about 10x over, a good minor league story is a breath of fresh air. and good eye w/ that LD% anomaly at Tradition Field, would not have noticed that.

by Rob Castellano on Jan 6, 2010 10:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn't expect either Fernando or Kirk to match Beltran in defensive ability

But either one should be well above average in a corner. It depends on the philosophy the team takes moving forward. If they want to keep a premium on defense in CF, they should probably look elsewhere, but if they’d rather not spend big bucks on another outfielder, either one could probably play passably up the middle, at least during their younger years.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Jan 6, 2010 7:12 PM EST up reply actions  

They'll probably move Bay to center

seeing as how he played there in Pittsburgh.

"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'

it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.

by Gina on Jan 6, 2010 7:22 PM EST up reply actions  

eh unlikely

in his 6 or so years in PIT he only payed 40 games in center compared to 714 in left. and especially at this stage of his career i don’t see any way that he’s shifting back to center for any extended period.

by Rob Castellano on Jan 6, 2010 10:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Lol I was joking

since there were reports that said they thought he was a better defender than Holliday based on the fact he played centerfield in Pittsburgh for a short time.

"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'

it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.

by Gina on Jan 6, 2010 10:32 PM EST up reply actions  

agreed

as a pretty big believer of his, i think nieuwenhuis could look a lot curtis granderson. not only defensively in center where he’s fast enough to perform fair to good, but certainly not great but also at the plate where he could probably bat between .250-.270, hit 20+ homers annually, strike out a ton and struggle against lefties.

by Rob Castellano on Jan 6, 2010 10:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Nice post

I go to a bunch of ‘clone games, so if you ever need the scoop on what nicknames we come up with, how the Premio are, how much the lakemonsters/ironbirds/yankees/spinners/jammers/crosscutters suck, how the beer tastes, or how the post-game dip in the ocean went, I’m available. I even keep a scorecard.

by Pack Bringley on Jan 6, 2010 7:23 PM EST reply actions  

Awesome, I'm a Brooklynite myself

Maybe we can get an AA group together to go out there and harass Ollie during a rehab start or something.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Jan 6, 2010 7:33 PM EST up reply actions  

i watched ollie's last rehab start from right behind the plate

it was… awesome. i let myself lap it up like it was santana or something.

by Pack Bringley on Jan 6, 2010 7:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I was at that game too!

I also saw Cohoon’s shutout. Big Cyclones fan here.

by TheBigStapler on Jan 7, 2010 10:23 AM EST up reply actions  

I've got you beat: I saw Angel Berroa (!!!) play

Seriously, though, an AA gathering at keyspan would be a BLAST, and is far more cheap and feasible than getting a block of tickets at Citi.

by Pack Bringley on Jan 7, 2010 11:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Awesome! I saw him too.

He was a dick. Didn’t want to give anyone in the row I was in (first row, near first base) an autograph, when all the younger guys were. Hell, even Andy Green was signing little kids’ autographs.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 7, 2010 7:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Sounds awesome. I'd be there with a couple of loud people.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 6, 2010 10:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Stupid MSM people who don't take the time to do any research?

Just a guess.

"You know I am only teasing. I love you gals out there -- always have." - Keith Hernandez

by OSUmets on Jan 7, 2010 10:33 AM EST up reply actions  

Nice, in-depth look.

At both prospect and TZ methodology. Super-useful, ex-Meddler.

by LeiterMilnerFasterStronger on Jan 6, 2010 10:34 PM EST reply actions  

this is a great post

well done.

However, it does little to dispel my notion that defensive statistics are so far from being accurate that they should be taken with a grain of salt.

by gbaked on Jan 6, 2010 10:41 PM EST reply actions  

Well in this instance the problem isn't the stat

it’s scorekeeping at certain fields, which isn’t nearly on par with major league clubs, and uzr is much more advanced than total zone. One of the reasons total zone is seen as flawed and not used in any instance where better stats are available is because of the score keeping issue.

"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'

it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.

by Gina on Jan 6, 2010 10:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly

TotalZone is actually a pretty sound method. If you read the article, Smith tackles the issue a bit, saying he could get much more accurate results if he could get measurements like height, distance, and hangtime on each batted ball, since those are much easier to objectively measure and also provide much more information. And the I used method here is also a good way to test how accurate the minor league numbers are. If there’s no discernible difference between the Home and Away batted ball rates for players who played on the same team, the measurements are probably pretty accurate, and especially for infielders can tell us a great deal about defensive quality.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Jan 7, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

well, that still doesnt negate the fact that the stat is not accurate

I am not arguing the method (although I admit I skimmed more then read the details of the statistic), but the numbers cant be considered gold, because of the scorekeeping.

I know its heresy around here, but at least for Defense, I trust my eyes more then the stats. At least at this point.

by gbaked on Jan 7, 2010 4:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I get people not being completely trusting of stats

But like the +/- system has people watching every single play and recording what they see. Whatever you think of the math, those guys are more qualified than you, or me, or any average fan when it comes to evaluating defense. We don’t know what to look for in defensive play, that’s way the stats exist, and they’re way better that our subjective opinion.

The Mets lobby Omar for a plan, and his plan, he likes his plan. The problem is that he didn't write his plan down 'cause that makes it paperwork, and that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?

by Evan_S on Jan 7, 2010 4:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think these ratings are gold, but they can still be useful

Especially for guys like me who don’t have an opportunity to see minor league players on a regular basis. I’ll probably see a little of Captain Kirk this year if I decide to take a trip to Bingo, but that’ll only be a handful of games at most. So my choices are between trusting other people’s eyes, which I do to a degree, and figuring out what I can statistically. The statistical correlation for infielders is relatively strong even in the minors for TotalZone. And even more, I understand the big questionable assumption it makes, that the value of each batted ball rate isn’t as consistent as it needs to be. So like I’ve done here, I can check that assumption. I may learn that the statistic was inaccurate, but even if I do, I’ll probably learn enough of why and how to get a better understanding of whatever my question was in the first place—in this case, how Nieuwenhuis grades as a defender. I don’t have a specific number to quantify it with (yet) but I have a pretty good idea that its much closer to 0 than -12, and that a positive number isn’t out of the question either, just not a very big one, as I might assume if I read BA’s Mets top 10 list.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Jan 7, 2010 5:26 PM EST up reply actions  

very nice post

if i were this dude my first move would be changing my name to Newhouse. and not just because of the rampant anti-holland crowd in new york.

Lets hope that when gut check time comes again the Mets will pass it with flying colors.

by kendynamo on Jan 6, 2010 11:20 PM EST reply actions  

i always pronounced it

Nyu-in-hoise(as in hoisin sauce), before i was informed of the proper pronounciation.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Jan 7, 2010 12:21 AM EST up reply actions  

It's

New-en-house right?

The Mets lobby Omar for a plan, and his plan, he likes his plan. The problem is that he didn't write his plan down 'cause that makes it paperwork, and that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?

by Evan_S on Jan 7, 2010 4:07 AM EST up reply actions  

whoa whoa whoa

as a proud frisian, i am obligated to ask what us damn dutch did.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Jan 7, 2010 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

-laid out our downtown street grid all crooked
-passed along place names with “words” like “wyck”, “vander”, and “kill”
-shoes made out of wood
-left grissiony explorer Henry Hudson to rot in an English prison

that’s for starters…

by hotspur on Jan 7, 2010 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

it's true!

Changing a group of plays from one classification to another will often cause the BABIP of both rates to move in the same direction, not opposite ones, but that’s a subject for another time.

I thought the paragraph before this had a typo, but somehow the math works.

Rank 100 balls in the air in play from 1 to 100, where 1 is a laser beam and 100 is totally popped up.
1-30 are “LD” where 10/30 are fielded for an out; BABIP=0.667
31-50 are “fliners” where 10/20 are fielded; BABIP=0.500
51-100 are “FB” where 40/50 are fielded; BABIP=0.200

When the fliners are counted as LD:
20/50 LD are fielded for a BABIP of 0.600
40/50 FB are fielded for a BABIP of 0.200

When the fliners are counted as FB:
10/30 LD are fielded for a BABIP of 0.667
50/70 FB are fielded for a BABIP of 0.286

Both BABIP rates are higher for the same number of hits and outs.

I think this only holds true for certain bin sizes, but I haven’t found the trick to it yet.

by hotspur on Jan 7, 2010 9:33 AM EST reply actions  

Yup it seems really counter intuituive

But think about it, its all because BABIP rate difference is so huge between LDs and FBs. First, assume he “natural” hit rates for LDs is .730 and for FBs is .180. So if you take 2 hits in 5 tries from FBs, a rate of .400, and move them to LDs, removing the (relatively) higher average from FBs would decrease that number, but you’re also adding a (relatively) lower average to LDs, decreasing that number. The same is true the other way, if you take the same 2 out of 5, .400 average, and move it from LDs to FBs, removing the (relatively) smaller rate from LDs would increase the .730, while at the same time adding the higher rate to FBs would increase the .180 as well.

The only way to get them to move in opposite directions would be to shift a sub-sample where the rate is either greater than .730 or less than .180. And even then, you’d see a very large shift in one direction for one of the bins, and a very small shift in the opposite direction for the other bin.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Jan 7, 2010 11:45 AM EST up reply actions  

If Nieuwenhuis can remain a CF in transition from the minors to the majors

He becomes a great puzzle piece to a championship team. I hope he blossoms into a major league CF but would also be very happy just to have a serviceable young 4th OF.

by TheBigStapler on Jan 7, 2010 10:16 AM EST reply actions  

Those words are never actually spoken in any Star Trek episode or movie

The Mets lobby Omar for a plan, and his plan, he likes his plan. The problem is that he didn't write his plan down 'cause that makes it paperwork, and that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?

by Evan_S on Jan 7, 2010 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Just saw that on wiki.

The image is photoshop’ed MS Painted, the catch phrase has never been spoken and he now wears #46. So, what is not to like?

by Michkin on Jan 7, 2010 3:25 PM EST up reply actions  

That was awesome Mark!

I wish I could major in baseball statistics at college and do that myself!

by astromets on Jan 7, 2010 3:56 PM EST reply actions  

Is Captain Kirk going to be Nieuwenhuis' official nickname?

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 7, 2010 7:05 PM EST reply actions  

Kirk Lazarus is another option

The Mets lobby Omar for a plan, and his plan, he likes his plan. The problem is that he didn't write his plan down 'cause that makes it paperwork, and that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?

by Evan_S on Jan 7, 2010 7:37 PM EST up reply actions  

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Sabermetrics! Fantasy League is live.
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[O]f the $136.7M the Mets spent on players in 2011, $72.8M was given to...

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