Learning From Your Enemies, Part 2: What Was Their Plan?
in Part 1 of this trilogy, we established the similarities between the 2010 Mets and the 2005 Phillies, upsetting as it might have been. The short of it was that both teams featured some young stars on the infield and outfield, some reasonably exciting pieces in the rotation, and veterans filling in the pieces - not to mention new ballparks, coaches and general managers.
Now it's time to figure out how those Phillies turned from almost-there into the team that has won the division four straight years. Let's start with the hiring of GM Pat Gillick in November of 2005, since that dovetails nicely with the future hiring of the next Mets general manager, and end with the beginning of the 2007 season, which saw them win the division thanks to the Mets. Sigh.
Instead of going into the minutia of every single move that Pat Gillick made when he took over, let's look at the major moves. Check out his big splash:
11/25/05 Acquired CF Aaron Rowand, LHP Daniel Haigwood and LHP Gio Gonzalez for 1B Jim Thome and cash.
The Phillies had long had Ryan Howard knocking on the door at first base, and when he performed well late in the 2005 season while Jim Thome was hurt - 2.3 WAR, 22 HR, .288/.356/.667 in 348 PA - it became obvious what had to be done. Gillick got a decent return despite the fact that it was obvious that Thome was both superfluous and already a DH.
Don't look at the current version of Rowand when scoffing at this notion - in his younger days, Rowand was useful. In 2004, he went .310/.361/.544 and accrued 5.4 WAR by playing an excellent center field, and in 2005, despite a bit of regression (.270/.329/.407, 3.8 WAR) he was still a nice piece. The best part was that the Phillies needed a center fielder, as Kenny Lofton was 38 and didn't seem like a long-term piece at the position. Yes, he turned in a decent season (.335/.392/.420, 3.8 WAR), but it was his second-straight season limited by injury and there was little reason to expect that to change at his age.
Gio Gonzalez was also a nice young left-handed piece to get back in that trade, and he factors in later in the Phils' future, even if it wasn't at the major league level.
Lesson Learned: Deal from surplus to fill needs. Any fantasy owner could tell you the same.
12/3/05 Signed free agent RHP Tom Gordon to a three-year contract.
1/27/06 Acquired LHP Arthur Rhodes from Cleveland for OF Jason Michaels.
This is a key part of the equation, as it pertains mostly to mid- to large-market teams working under the assumption that they have to field a strong team every year. Gordon signed for three years and $15 million to replace Billy Wagner, and was a relative value considering that Braden Looper signed a three year deal for a million-and-a-half less to set up in St. Louis. Even with his injuries, Gordon was the better value and the better bet going into the season. Of course, Looper converted to a starter and ended up being worth more, but Gordon was the better pitcher and was a closer, so paying a million more is not unwarranted. I mean, Billy Wagner signed for four years and $42 million - how did that work out? Rhodes suffered through poor luck in one of his worst seasons in the bigs, but he was also a flyball pitcher going to a poor park for his skills, and his 3.72 FIP wasn't terrible.
What you can learn from these transactions is that Gillick wanted to build a strong bullpen, but he didn't want to pay a lot of money for it. Omar Minaya, are you listening?
Lesson Learned: Don't spend a ton of resources on the bullpen, but do spend some attention on it.
3/27/06 Reassigned LHP Cole Hamels to Minor League camp.
Hamels had made it as far as Double-A in 2005 and had excelled at every stop. He was an exciting young pitcher, and the fans were clamoring for him. He was re-assigned to the minor leagues because he'd only had 19 innings at Double-A, ended up getting hurt, hitting the DL, returning, excelling, and performing decently in the major leagues once he proved Double-A wasn't a problem.
Lesson Learned: Don't muck around with your exciting young starters (like Jenrry Mejia).
7/30/06 Acquired SS C.J. Henry, LHP Matt Smith, C Jesus Sanchez and RHP Carlos Monastrios from the Yankees for OF Bobby Abreu and RHP Cory Lidle.
8/19/06 Acquired LHP Jamie Moyer from the Seattle Mariners in exchange for Minor League RHPs Andrew Baldwin and Andrew Barb.
8/27/06 Acquired OF Jeff Conine and cash from the Orioles in exchange for a player to be named.
This may be the most controversial part of the discussion. On July 30th, the team was under .500 and struggling - and Bobby Abreu and Cory Lidle were free agents at year's end, so they were easy targets for other teams. Credit Gillick for trading them away when he knew he wasn't going to re-sign them - even in his first season with the Phillies. Less strong-minded GMs may not have wanted to 'waive the white flag' so soon in their inaugural season. Even if the prospects he got back didn't end up doing much, there was some hope for Monastrios at the time, and at least all four played premium positions and had the chance to become backups on good teams.
But then the team rallied and got back into the wild card race. Just about three weeks later, Gillick must have felt differently about the team and acquired an old left-hander getting to the end of his contract in Seattle. He added an outfielder for the stretch run too. It's a little confusing, and would seemingly be rash, but if you look closely, he didn't give up much for Moyer, so there's something common to both of these moves. Short-term assets can be moved around fairly easily depending on the current state of the team. Out of it? Jettison the free agents as long as you can do better than the picks you'd get for them. Back in it? Throw a couple fungible arms at a weakness on the team.
A sub-plot here is Michael Bourn. Ostensibly, Gillick traded Abreu because he felt that Bourn, who had just put up a .283/.368/.428 season at Triple-A, could replace him in the outfield with better defense. With the team out of it seemingly, he gave Bourn some run. As the team climbed back in, he demoted Bourn and replaced him with Conine. In 2007, Bourn was a full-time outfielder and still part of the team's plans.
Lesson Learned: Keep the long-term plan in mind, cut bait on short-term assets relatively quickly, and don't overpay when acquiring short-term assets. AND: Give young guys a shot if they seem ready and the team is struggling (a corollary to keeping the long-term plan in mind).
10/23/06 Signed LHP Jamie Moyer to a two-year contract extension.
11/30/06 Signed RHP Adam Eaton to a three-year contract.
Well, you can't win them all - certainly the Eaton move was a bad one, as he gave the Phils 268 innings of replacement-level pitching for three years and $24.5 million. Ouch. On the other hand, Jamie Moyer gave them 4.2 WAR over two years for $12+ million, so that one worked out. A positive lesson can be taken from both of these contracts - back of the rotation starters are fungible, so just keep the dollar signs low and sign multiple guys, knowing that your best Triple-A starter can come in if things don't work out (see: Eaton, who was released after 2008). Had the Mets signed Oliver Perez to three years and $24.5 million, they'd probably be even more likely to release him this offeseason and they'd be $5.5 million richer overall.
Lesson Learned: Back-of-the-rotation starters are fungible - keep the years and dollar signs as low as possible and move on once things don't work out.
12/21/06 Traded OF Jeff Conine to Cincinnati in exchange for Minor League OF Javon Moran and Minor League 3B Brad Key; Signed C Rod Barajas to a one-year contract with a club option for the 2008 season.
12/19/06 Signed OF Jayson Werth to a one-year contract.
Conine performed decently with the Phillies at the end of 2006, but his .280/.327/.390 line showed that his power was almost all gone. With a year left on his contract, Gillick went back to his old lesson - short-term assets can be jettisoned in order to keep the long term plan going - and traded Conine away.
You might be tempted to say that the Werth signing was luck, since the outfielder had just spent a year in Los Angeles whiffing at everything (33.8% K rate) and putting up an atrocious line (.238/.334/.374), but that's not probable. Werth had shown great ISOs before (.208 in Toronto, .224 in his first year in Los Angeles) and was as strong fielder. He had a bad platoon split, but he was at least half of a pretty good fielder, and the fact that his ISO disappeared for 395 plate appearances in Los Angeles is not something that should sink a career.
(Also: backup catchers should be signed to one-year contracts for cheap... but Minaya figured that one out.)
Lesson Learned: Buy low on players that have shown promise even if they are somewhat flawed.
12/6/06 Acquired RHP Freddy Garcia from the Chicago White Sox in exchange for RHP Gavin Floyd and a player to be named later.
Well, crap happens. It seems that the Phillies gave up too soon on Floyd, who had walked over five batters per nine in about 100 innings over three years. He only had one year in the minors with really poor control (2005, 4.3 walks per nine, 3.4 BB/9 minor league career), so perhaps they should have seen past the initial struggles. Then again, he only struck out 7.1 per nine in the minor leagues, so perhaps they thought his upside was limited. Few players strike out so few in the minor leagues and then go on to successful careers, but Floyd has improved his control and his ability to get groundballs while in the majors and has become a better pitcher. Kudos to him.
Lesson Learned: Some guys will get away. It's okay. Keep dealing.
1/21/07 Signed 2B Chase Utley to a seven-year contract extension.
2/1/07 Agreed to terms with RHP Brett Myers on a three-year contract.
Well, New York knows this lesson at least. Sign your cornerstones before they hit the free market. We can thank Omar Minaya for the last three player-seasons left at below-market rates for David Wright and Jose Reyes at the very least.
Lesson Learned: Sign your cornerstones before they hit the free market.
And there you have it. The major moves the Phillies made between 2006 and 2007 that took them from second to first in the division. Doesn't seem so hard, does it? Next up: How the Mets can follow this plan.
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Werth had an issue with his wrist, which helped him sell for a low price as well.
A lot of talk in Philly about Rowand’s much higher grission value than Abreu, take that with a grain of salt.
by EastFallowfield on Oct 14, 2010 10:33 AM EDT reply actions
My initial reaction
It does not really seem like the Phillies had a “plan”. Personally I have not been able to find any underlining themes or consistent thought process within these moves. This is probably just extreme jealousy but I think one of the biggest drivers of the Phillies run of division titles was the extreme incompetence of the Mets.
I agree
It seems that their winning the past few seasons had more to do with good luck for them and bad luck for the Mets, than any overall plan. The Phils had no major injuries over the past few years while the Mets had to contend with injuries to Delgado, Beltran, Reyes etc..
"Baseball is a game played by the dextrous but only understood by the POIN-dextrous"-Professor John I.Q. Neidelbaum Frink, Simpsons
by Blame-everyone-else on Oct 14, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Eh, the Phillies have had plenty of pretty big injuries over the last couple of years.
How many times has Utley been out for a few months with injury? Rollins was out for a huge chunk of the season. Howard missed some time, too. They still put up the best record in the NL, all of that withstanding.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 14, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
There may have been no "theme" but there was clearly a plan.
As Eno astutely pointed out. Cost contol was obviously important on throughout the roster, not just at the top. Keeping assets maleable was clearly part of their overarching design. Which is not to say they didn’t have some luck, it’s the nature of the game that sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you swing and miss. In this case, I hearlily believe luck was a residue of design.
by SoCal Metfan on Oct 14, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
also they were clearly better at spotting undervalued talent than we were
hence how they landed victorino and werth who were either seen as non prospects or 4th outfielders.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)
Just an FYI
The Phillies tried to give Vicorino back, but he wasn’t wanted.
Maybe more of a philosophy
1. Keep an eye on the farm system
2. Care about the farm system
3. Don’t hire all of your friends to be the coaches in the farm system
4. Don’t hire your friend to be in charge of the team medical staff
5. When a player gets injured, replace with a capable MLB player, not your friend from the DR or from the Montreal Expos.
by BurkhardtCerroneBerg on Oct 14, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Did Rey Ramirez get let go?
Why isn’t everyone fired? I heard Hojo is still lurking around being a complete creep and actually thinking he will be kept on.
Pat Gillick decided that on the farm system, the players would learn...
baseball fundamentals. Omar Minaya decided to focus on gyrations, clapping and dancing on meaningless singles, not running out pop-ups, more dancing on the mound if it is a Fiesta night at Shea, and laying down after you lose a lead.
Omar Minaya also gave his farm system lessons in Sammy Sosa Media Relations 101.
by BurkhardtCerroneBerg on Oct 14, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Can you provide examples, BurkhardtCerroneBerg?
Because, frankly, I see no evidence that the Mets farm system has produced an abundance of lazy, overexuberant players with poor fundamentals under Minaya. Certainly, those labels don’t apply to the guys who came up this year – Davis, Thole, Tejada, etc.. As for Omar’s alleged favoritism toward Latinos, that’s already been debunked on AA.
That’s not to say the Minaya did a good job with the farm system, but the problems have a lot more to do with things like poor drafting & rushing players too quickly through the system.
Come on
That’s your example – a 36-year old who came up through the Giants & Royals farm system and was only playing shortstop because of injuries to Reyes & Cora? You have to do beter than that.
Bartolome Fortunato
Amborix Burgos
Jose Lima
Ricardo Rincon
Angel Berroa
Robinson Cancel
- There was better MLB capable options at the time then to ever have to use these guys (as first poster stated)
None of those are applicable
The flawed point BurkhardtCerroneBerg is trying to make is that the Mets’ farm system has produced, as Pete said, “an abundance of lazy, overexuberant players with poor fundamentals.” None of those players developed in the Mets’ farm system. They were all on our AAA team at one time or another, but that’s because they were mostly “washed-up veteran looking to make the MLB club as a back-up/injury replacement”, not “decent looking prospect who worked his way up through the ranks of the Minors, and is getting the fine tuning for his MLB debut out of the way”.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 15, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Fmart doesn't run out popups...
Mejia doesn’t back up home plate and Reyes dances when he hits singles down 8-1. Come on. I already got rec’d, get off it.
by BurkhardtCerroneBerg on Oct 15, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
you got rec'd for a different post
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)
by Gina on Oct 15, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
?
Fernando Martinez didn’t run out a pop-up once, and that’s bad, I agree. Mejia doesn’t back up home plate, and that’s bad, I agree. And, all of the other players who do do all of those things, both on the Mets, and on other teams, since they’ve since been traded?
When Reyes claps when he gets on base in games where the team is down (Derek Jeter shows fire, though, when he ignites rallies). All swell and good.
I’m still wondering what Mookes listed examples have do with this, though.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 16, 2010 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Come on BDMF
Don’t you know that Reyes is a losery loser who wills his team to loseryness with his evil clapping and smiling! Every other team’s players turn into the Hulk when he claps and dances and smiles and that is an indisputable fact. I’ve seen it happen.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Oct 16, 2010 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I've seen it happen WITH MY OWN EYES, not spreadsheets.
Damn you RAY ASS.
by Michkin on Oct 16, 2010 7:59 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
You didn't get rec'd for anything regarding this tangent.
And, I’m still wondering what Mookes listed examples have do with this.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 16, 2010 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
How is that completely debunked by the way?
He took one sample in one moment of time. I have seen Bartholome Fortunato (as mookes said) and it was not fun.
by BurkhardtCerroneBerg on Oct 16, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
What does Bartolome Fortunato,
a product of Tampa Bay’s Minor League system, have to do with the alleged “abundance of lazy, overexuberant players with poor fundamentals” that the Mets’ Minor League system supposedly produced?
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 16, 2010 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't really understand your schtick
Are you pretending you’re writing like the three guys in your username (who, by the way, all write very differently, and have very different views of baseball)? Are you imitating people who comment on Metsblog? Or are we expected to take what you say at face value, as your own thoughts and opinions? If it’s one of the first two, it’s been done way better before. If it’s the third one, well, I don’t really know what to say.
2009 Did Not Happen
No schtick
Just 3 of the biggest shill hacks that i really admire
by BurkhardtCerroneBerg on Oct 16, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
This sounds dangerously close to...
… aw, hell— it IS “I didn’t sign on for ‘Los Mets’” bullspit.
by LeiterMilnerFasterStronger on Oct 27, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
apologies for the formatting
can’t get it right for some reason. will try one more time.
Also, I feel like there was a plan there. If you boil it down to brass taxes, I’d say: keep your young cogs as long as possible, and then everything around it should be fungible and malleable – back of the rotation starters, outfielders, all should be signed to short term deals and dealt way as soon as they aren’t needed.
or maybe
they won in 2007 and 2008 because the mets choked, and in 2009 because they had Cliff Lee and the mets really stunk. They played well at the end, but the mets handed it to them. I am not sure it was so great a plan on their part. Their good players seem to jack it up when times demand it. Whether that is because they are products of a better organization and its development policies, or they are better picks by their talent scouts, I do not know. I do not know what they teach or how they scout. They certainly are to be commended for that. But for a plan? I am not so sure.
I think this can all be summed up in one word...
Flexibility.
Oddly, the absence of the same word may be the reason for the Mets injury woes the past 2 years.
Really well thought-out series thus far. I agree with SoCal Metsfan above that this is strong evidence not of a plan vis a vis individuals (or really, any particular individual), but of a plan favoring moves that would allow the team flexibility around a core of certain players who they had faith in by means of cost-control. As you point out, they sometimes got lucky, but they also had a few instances of bad luck.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. --Vin Scully, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Oct 14, 2010 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
The Mets have not really given up on any prospects recently
that were any good. The only one that comes to mind is Heath Bell. And the Phils haven’t really been more judicious in their handling of veteran free agents. They signed 34 year Polanco to a three year deal with an option and 37 year old Ibanez to a three year deal. They just seem to have gotten really lucky with their veteran signing while the Mets have fallen flat. If that is indicative of a better plan than credit them. I just don’t know what that plan is.
"Baseball is a game played by the dextrous but only understood by the POIN-dextrous"-Professor John I.Q. Neidelbaum Frink, Simpsons
by Blame-everyone-else on Oct 14, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
eh the Ibanez and Polanco thing
were after their WS and by Amaro, not by the man who built the world series team. And our problem is we don’t see to produce good prospects for ourselves or for anyone else. So we generally can’t make trades when we need too because any trade would effectively wipe out the little talent we have, we never have a surplus.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)
Geeze, imagine if they had kept Gavin Floyd and Gio Gonzalez (the PTBNL) instead of trading for Freddy Garcia?
Floyd isn’t a world-beater, but he’s put up back-to-back 4+ WAR seasons with the White Sox, and is still only 27, entering into his prime now. Gonzalez is 25, and put up a very respectable 3.2 WAR with the A’s in his first actual full (30+ starts, 200 +/- innings) season. Assuming the Phillies kept them in the long haul, and didn’t move them in any other deals, they could theoretically have had a pitching rotation of:
Roy Halladay® 2010 WAR- 6.6
Cole Hamels (L) 2010 WAR- 3.8
Roy Oswalt® 2010 WAR- 4.7
Gio Gonzalez (L) 2010 WAR- 3.2
Gavin Floyd® 2010 WAR- 4.3
That’s a scary thing, a total of 22.6 WAR coming from starting pitching alone. And then, with the line-up that they have…Wow.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 14, 2010 1:25 PM EDT reply actions
I doubt they would have traded for Oswalt
in fact, they might not even have traded for Cliff Lee last year. A big part of the reason for those trades was concern over the back end of the rotation, which they might not have had if they still had Floyd and Gonzalez.
Also, I like how Halladay, Oswalt, and Floyd are registered trademarks
2009 Did Not Happen
Hey, when you have a chance to add All-Star calliber pitchers at
little to no cost, because the GM you are dealing with, for whatever random reason, is willing to accept a very poor package in return, in relation to what he is giving up, factoring in the market, and all of that, you jump.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 15, 2010 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions
July Trade Talks:
Omar: Hey Ed, we’re interested in Oswalt, and I know he wants a trade. What will it take?
Ed Wade: Thanks for asking, Omar – we’ll take David Wright, Johan Santana, and your 5 best prospects. Final Offer.
Omar: Gee, Ed, that’s a lot. How about our 4 best prospects?
Ed Wade: Nope, not good enough. We’re done now.
Next day
Amaro: Hey Ed, we’re interested in Oswalt, what will it take?
Ed Wade: OHMYFAWKINGGAWD YOU WANT HIM? He’s yours….seriously, you don’t even have to give us anyone, just take him. We’ll even pay half his contract. Oh, what’s that, we have to take players back? Fine, just give us some crappy filler, and we’ll pay 3/4 of his contract. Can I throw in a week of sex with my wife? She’s very good in bed, and still quite attractive? No, how about my daughter? C’mon Ruben, take one of them, I can’t in good conscience take advantage of your organization in this way without giving up more in return.
2009 Did Not Happen
by cjmulrain on Oct 15, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Pretty much.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 15, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
cjmulrain...
you win 598745987459874 internets. Rec’d.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Oct 16, 2010 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I imagine Gio Gonzales wouldn't have lasted long in that stadium
he’s a pretty extreme flyballer. Oakland is a perfect fit for him.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)
never mind I lied I must have him confused with someone else
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)
On the A's,
Dallas Braden has the highest FB%, with 40.7 %.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 15, 2010 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah I had him confused with Greg Smith
who was on the A’s but I think moved in the Holliday package or something
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)
I lobby for
a Prof. Frink-Lisa Simpson GM/manager duo
"The '69 Mets will live on forever. But do you think anybody cares about Ron Swoboda's wife and kids? Not me! And I assume not Ron Swoboda" --Homer Simpson
Absolutely not
Frink’s use of small sample size variation to justify his support of GRIENKE! was appalling.
:)
by SoCal Metfan on Oct 14, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Plus Frink is allegedly a football guy...
Oh wait, that’s John Clayton. Sorry, get those two mixed up all the time.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. --Vin Scully, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Oct 14, 2010 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
My new sig....
Was a toss up between the one I have and the one you have. Well done.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. --Vin Scully, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Oct 14, 2010 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
gillick was always a genius.
to bad he wont come out of retirement because we all know byrnes will be g.m. and melvin will be the manager same old story with this team if there smart alderson should be the man .
lohaus #54

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