Mets GM Search: Sandy Alderson And Josh Byrnes Remain
by Eric Simon on Oct 22, 2010 3:00 PM EDT
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PrintIn an e-mail sent to fans today, Jeff Wilpon indicated that Sandy Alderson and Josh Byrnes are the finalists for the Mets GM vacancy.
We are bringing back Josh Byrnes and Sandy Alderson for a second round of interviews with Fred, Saul and me. Josh is scheduled for Monday and Sandy for Tuesday as we continue our search for the next General Manager of the Mets. John Ricco and I spoke personally with Allard Baird, Rick Hahn, Logan White and Dana Brown earlier today to thank them for their interest and taking the time to interview with us. We will be back to you with more information regarding our new GM soon.
Hat tip Adam Rubin, among others.
While I really liked Rick Hahn's resume, I can't really complain about the final two. Alderson is well-respected throughout baseball but isn't really an old-school baseball mind. In other words, he's open to new ideas and intellectual honesty. Byrnes was the assistant GM for the Rockies under Dan O'Dowd and for the Red Sox under Theo Epstein. His resume while GM with the Diamondbacks was a mixed bag, but the time he spent with O'Dowd and Epstein should be a mark in his favor.
Would Jeff Wilpon favor Byrnes because he could more easily influence the younger GM, while Alderson probably has too much experience and gravitas to let Jeff get in his way?
Update: SB Nation Diamondbacks site AZ SnakePit had the opportunity to interview Byrnes in 2009 (Part 1 and Part 2) and in 2010 (Part 1 and Part 2). Here's one question of interest:
AZ: Can you tell me which you weight more heavily, subjective (scouting) or objective (stats) analysis? When is one more likely to take precedence over the other?
JB: Generally, I'd say we try to blend both. If they're in argument with each other, it would probably make us move on to another player. But if you're talking about teenage players, whether it's high-schoolers here, or Latin American kids, obviously there's not a lot of statistical value, even in high-school statistics. I think statistics are more relevant, the closer they are to the major-leagues.
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Nice, we officially can't make a bad choice now
I’d prefer Aldy, but either one is OK with me
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 22, 2010 3:03 PM EDT reply actions
It's almost insane that we can say that
The Mets can’t blow it.
by Pack Bringley on Oct 22, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
they'll hire both accidentally, and then the two will spend the season fighting it out for control
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 22, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
As long as one of them is dead at the end of the season, I can live with it. One season is a small price to pay.
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
the quickening is upon us!
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 22, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I think M Nights entire career is a piece of performance art
some sort of subtle commentary on the movie industry
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 22, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
happening is the worst movie i've ever seen
by Mike Clemente on Oct 22, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
have you seen The Room?
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 22, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Apparently he hasn't.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Oct 22, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
but are you saying that the room is worse than the happening
because i find that very hard to believe, especially since the happening had a budget and the room didn’t
by Mike Clemente on Oct 22, 2010 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions
hahaha
i was literally typing the same thing
by Mike Clemente on Oct 22, 2010 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions
It is absolutely a real movie
because I just watched it for the second time last night. Absolutely hilarious again.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Oct 22, 2010 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions
i applaud your dedication
great drinking game idea. Drink every time someone throws a football
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 23, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
i know...i was watching clips and i decided i had to see it again.
It’s not all that tough to get through…I found myself laughing through most it. I like that drinking game idea but here’s another…
Drink every time somebody says “oh hai blank”. You’d be plastered within like 10 minutes.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Oct 23, 2010 1:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
that works too
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 23, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
damn anonymous, crossing out things i wrote.
you win again.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Oct 23, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
its real, and its spectacularly awful
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 23, 2010 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions
the worst part
this trailer isn’t nearly as bad as the actual movie
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 23, 2010 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions
That's not possible,
although I’m not going to attempt to verify it.
That trailer is perfect in the perfectly wrong way.
You could just go to youtube and watch all the best parts
it actually makes about as much sense if you do that instead of watching the whole thing.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Oct 23, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
but thats the problem
you’re cherry picking the parts that are amusing, its just not the same.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 23, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Though it does have
that whole “self-preservation” thing going for it.
self preserwhatnow?
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 24, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
its a bit of an ordeal to watch the whole thing
but you feel a sense of pride and accomplishment when you finish it. I still can’t tell what combination of funny and tragically bad it is though.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 23, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
At least The Happening had Zoey Deschanel to look at.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.
there's no way this isn't intended comedy
by Mike Clemente on Oct 22, 2010 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions
it was originally marketed as
“A film with the passion of Tennessee Williams.”
then after it was release Wiseau changed his tune and called it a black comedy.
by secret defense on Oct 22, 2010 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah it clearly wasn't intended to be a comedy and just missed the mark so badly they rebranded it
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 23, 2010 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions
YOU'RE TEARING ME APAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAART LISA
Let's never bunt again.
by Thomas Wachtel on Oct 23, 2010 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions
You're just a little chicken!
CHIIIIIIIP CHIP CHIP CHIIIIIIIIP!!
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Oct 23, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Great film
M Night is a very underrated director.
by secret defense on Oct 22, 2010 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions
The best part about his new one, "The Devil" or whatever it is...
…is that I saw the trailer during Inception. It was a packed house. The trailer comes on and it looked moderately interesting for roughly 10 seconds or so. But after the trailer, some people were still watching it and as soon as his name came up? The biggest “Oh mannnn!” and sigh ever! Fucking hysterical.
lol
I actually laughed when I saw his name come up in the trailer before Inception. Although I wasn’t interested in seeing the movie until his name came up.
by secret defense on Oct 23, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Is that that "five people in an elevator" flick?
I caught it online—it’s a perfectly decent little “B” movie
if thats happens then face palms as followed
Gang green nation!
what can i say he's dwight fricking lowery
by JETSFANF0RLYF3 on Oct 22, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope they don't kill each other.
Then by default, Omar would probably end up back in the GM seat since he might still be in the organization.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Oct 22, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
no0o0o0o0o0o (think happy place happy place)
Gang green nation!
what can i say he's dwight fricking lowery
by JETSFANF0RLYF3 on Oct 22, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
thats why there can be only one
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 22, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that is the best thing that could happen
Bring in Alderson as the President of Baseball Operations and let Byrnes work under him.
I really like Alderson, but at 62 years old and having made good money in his career, how long is he in it for?
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but Jerry abuses the privilege.
62 is young if he's still really interested, which he seems to be
Why would he have taken on the Dominican task if he’s a guy who wants to kick back and enjoy his money? He’s a guy who likes doing, it seems. He could spend 15 years with the Mets, easy. Age isn’t what it used to be.
yep.
We’re not talking about a player… an exec at 62 can be as sharp as he ever was for a good clip more… not is not the time to be thinking about succession plans…
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Oct 22, 2010 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
damn!
I hate that you can’t edit here..
meant, “now is not the time….”
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Oct 22, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
This....
Alderson seems like the kind of guy who really would not like being idle in his 60s. I know quite a few guys like that: who have the financial ability to retire but prefer to keep busy and productive. I know 62 may sound old to some folks, but I knew people in their 70s who just loved to work and were still good at what they did.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Oct 22, 2010 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Frank Cashen was about the same age when he took over
the Mets inthe 80’s.I’m happy because Alderson will add some needed class and leadership to this rudderless organization.
by Putnan Prince on Oct 22, 2010 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Just...
sloooower.
Everyone, literally everyone I know who reached 70 simply couldn’t give the same performance they could ten years earlier. They may be just as sharp, but they can’t put in the hours, make mistakes when they tire, and they tire more often. I don’t doubt there are exceptions, but those exceptions aren’t very common.
I’m fine with Alderson being 62. I’d be reluctant give him a ten-year deal, however.
why would we want to give anyone a 10 year deal?
Everyone loved Phillips in 2000, he was gone by 2003. Everyone loved Omar in 2007, he was gone by 2010. I’m hoping whoever we get next will be much better than those two, but 10 years (hell, just 8 years, till he’s 70) is a very long time in baseball. Gillick ran the Phillies for 4 years and turned them into one of the best teams in baseball. I’d settle for that.
2009 Did Not Happen
Exactly
he doesn’t have to be around all that long. Maybe he’s GM for 3 years and then turns it over to his protege and just takes over as President/Advisor. This team isn’t that far away.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Oct 23, 2010 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, I know what you mean, but
the organization is very, very far away. Alderson will need to institute some organization-wide changes that get very deeply rooted, to the point where it’s difficult for Jeffy to wreck things. Although, sadly, you really can’t idiot-proof a baseball organization. s
I thought it was obvious I wasn't serious,
but only that since people were mentioning age, I wouldn’t want a 71 year old GM, but don’t have a problem with Alderson’s age.
It only took Pat Gillick 2 years to right the Phillies' ship
If the Mets don’t hire Alderson, they are fools.
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
"Who has more fun than people?"
- Ralph Kiner
It's already done.They'll announce early next week before the Series starts
so they don’t upstage the playoff games.Alderson it is and always was.
by Putnan Prince on Oct 22, 2010 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe this will be settled...
By shirtless clubhouse fight?
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Oct 22, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Where's Tony B?
He’ll want to get in on this.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Oct 22, 2010 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah wonder what turned them off to Hahn
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 22, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
RE: Jeffy latest epistle...
HALLELUJAH!
Oh, the butcher and the baker and the people on the street: wheredotheygo?!?!? Right here: http://myentireteam.wordpress.com/
Josh is scheduled for Monday and Sandy for Tuesday
On Wednesday, we will be World Champtions !
Bobby V. for manager, Wally B. for bench coach.
I'll be happy with either
but come on Alderson makes too much sense not to happen. He’d be perfect for a total rebuild which is what we need.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)
Not sure...Missing out on Sandy now
makes me think of what (fictionalized) Moonlight Graham said:
“Like coming this close to your dreams…”
Alderson provides real hope
that the Mets will finally emerge from this wilderness of mediocrity. He’s such a perfect choice that I’m now worrying that some kind of Mets curse will doom us to someone else, in this case Byrnes, who is unable to manage Ownership.
Sandy Alderson for Mets GM
R.A. Dickey for Governor!
I'm thinking the choice will tell us
if Fred is still interested enough to bother overruling Jeff.
Jeff might want Alderson
after the last 4 years (especially the last 2) he might just want to win, and have the NY media kiss his ass for being such a great owner.
Sandy Alderson for Mets GM
R.A. Dickey for Governor!
I don't think so
Just that the final two choices are these two? I think Jeff’s pulling for the young guy so he can still play his role.
They need at least a second person for the second round
or there is no second round
Sandy Alderson for Mets GM
R.A. Dickey for Governor!
which scares me that it won't happen--crosses fingers
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Oct 22, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Byrnes had signed an 8y-extension (08-15), then he was fired (7/1/10).
Is he still being paid? Who is going to pay if the Mets hire him?
I'm sure the D-Backs pay the rest of his contract with them
and the Mets pay his contract in NY. I don’t think it works the same way it works with players, where if a player is released the signing team only pays ML minimum.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Oct 22, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I actually think if he's under contract
then they subtract whatever we pay him from what they owe him, thats how it worked with Willie.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)
Rubin just reported that
Byrnes has 5 years left on DBacks contract. Mets would only need to pay “reasonable” amount, since every dollar is deducted from DBacks pay.
Hunh. That seems odd to me. I know they do this with players
but didn’t think it was remotely applicable to management.
not sure why
he wouldn’t continue to collect on his contract from the DBacks. They canned him. He was ready willing and able to continue to fulfill the contract.
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Oct 22, 2010 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
sheesh the mets are def going to hire him now
they’re probably figuring out ways to avoid paying him
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)
Omar will probably give him a vest
OH WAIT!
feels good……..
by Pack Bringley on Oct 22, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I want these little Jeff updates forever
Where were these when Oliver was looking sweet in the bullpen?
I'll give this team credit where it's due...I really like the updates.
I think it’s great that we are finally kept in the loop on decisions (not that we have any say, but at least it’s a start). I hope they keep up with the semi-regular emails all year.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Oct 22, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Considering who the final candidates are
it seems we have full say in the matter :P
"It ain't going to be pretty. No fine is going to be big enough. No suspension is going to be long enough." ~Gary Sheffield
by Lance Johnson on Oct 22, 2010 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Even though these updates are total bull...t?
by Putnan Prince on Oct 22, 2010 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Even so
I’ll take total bullshit over nothing at all. And I don’t really understand how they’re bullshit…it’s not like they’re telling us different things. They’re keeping the fans in the loop and that’s always a positive to give the fans info.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Oct 23, 2010 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
He's convinced they decided weeks ago.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.
Yeah maybe they did
but still…I’m just glad we’re not being kept in the dark. Even if it is decided, it’s not like these guys aren’t really being brought in for interviews. I just like to see the progression of the search.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Oct 23, 2010 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but he's usually wrong.
Let's never bunt again.
by Thomas Wachtel on Oct 23, 2010 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions
You couldn't hear the tone I said it with in my head with.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.
I think the Jeff updates...
Indicate that someone in the organization got the message about how frustrated the fans have become. Maybe it was Fred and Jeff finally realizing that the “everything’s cool” message just wasn’t cutting it. Hopefully it’s a sign of a change in how the team is run. I’m remaining a pessimist for the time being, but good signs are good signs. And the first rule of tautology club is the first rule of tautology club.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Oct 23, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
The dictionary is your friend.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Oct 23, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
MookieTheCat
is tautology the study of tight things?
taut like a tiger?
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 24, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
"How did you find us?"
“We joined the facebook group, ‘If one million people join the group, this group will have one million members.’ "
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage
by blueandorange4life on Oct 23, 2010 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
So can people say some nice things about Byrnes to make us excited?
I know a bit more about Alderson.
Courtesy of Rob Neyer
I happen to think either Byrnes or Alderson would do a fine job… Whoever winds up with the job, I don’t expect the Mets to languish in the middle of the standings for much longer.
Of course, maybe he means he expects the Mets to languish at the bottom of the standings but it’s a glass-half-full day.
by James Kannengieser on Oct 22, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not that this is all that matters
but seeing as our proclivities are what they are, is he on record anywhere about advanced stats?
by Pack Bringley on Oct 22, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Can't find a link to confirm it
But I’ve definitely read that he’s saber-oriented. His resume speaks to this — John Hart hired him in the ’90s (Hart is a progressive baseball guy), and he was a high ranking lieutenant for Theo Epstein. Of course, Allard Baird is also an Epstein guy so who knows.
If Wikipedia is to be believed, he didn’t want to re-sign Eric Byrnes a few years back for objective reasons (age, production vs. cost, etc) but ownership stepped in an negotiated an ultimately Ollie-esque contract because Byrnsie was a fan favorite. That’s encouraging.
by James Kannengieser on Oct 22, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay here's some stuff
MLB.com from when he was hired by the D-Backs in 2005:
With baseball people seemingly split down the middle with those favoring statistical analysis on one side and those who rely on more traditional methods of scouting, Byrnes said he falls somewhere in the middle.
“I think everyone is declaring affiliations out there, and as I said, I like information,” he said. “I think both are valuable. I think when they overlap as a decision maker, you feel like you’ve got a good process in place. When they don’t connect, maybe you pull aside and look at another player or another move. I think I’ll get my hands on as much information as I can, both subjective and objective.”
For Byrnes, it all comes back to balance — balancing old school vs. new school, wanting to win now but not at the expense of the future and balancing numbers vs. subjective judgment.
And from an Arizona newspaper in 2008:
Byrnes, whose Diamondbacks are struggling but still in contention for a second-consecutive playoff appearance, still has plenty of curiosity about the game. Now it’s channeled through in-depth computer programs that he and his young, brainy front-office staff have composed.
Those programs combine scouting reports and statistical analyses of thousands of amateur and professional players. His staff also projects the team’s payroll for the next five years, and the Diamondbacks have compiled payroll data of all major-league teams.
by James Kannengieser on Oct 22, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Well.........
That last bit of info just won me over to the Josh Byrnes side. Don’t get me wrong I want the Wolf, but I would be very happy with Byrnes. An hour ago, I was really pissed that Hahn got passed over in favor of Byrnes.
But the 2008 excerpt from the Arizon News has colored me impressed. It was both good and bad to learn why Byrns signed Eric Byrnes. At least he had the sense to resist, but its not good to see him get over rided like that. That just would not happen to Alderson.
I would also like to know why he got such a crappy return in the Dan Haren trade.
Thanks for all the info Cannnon, good stuff.
by Coolpapabell on Oct 22, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
The Haren trade was made by DiPoto after Byrnes was canned.
That’s why the return was so poor.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Oct 22, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
The thing is though
those guys who he gave up (with the exception of Dana Evland) are just now getting to the MLB level. That means they were probably at AA (at most). Yes, CarGo was highly regarded, but it wasn’t like he shipped off 5 guys on the brink of stardom.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.
he was also shipped off more than once
Cargo that is
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)
Speaking of Eric Byrnes....
It’s sad, like a carnival boarded up for winter.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Oct 23, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes
But Haren was still young, affordable, under contract, and awesome. You expect to give up a big haul for that, and he did.
I'm wondering if the cost was too high (even for such an ace) and if they were really in a position where that would be beneficial for them.
If anyone has a perspective of what people thought of the trade back then, I’m all eyes.
Another thing to keep in mind
is that they were adding Haren to a team that just lost in the NLCS and a rotation that would include Webb (pre-injuries) and Randy Johsnon.
So they were adding marginal wins to put them over the top. You often have to overpay for those types of wins.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.
yep
have to consider that if Webb doesn’t go down, Haren could be seen as the final piece that put the DBacks over the top…. and maybe they even win 2 titles with that team… or at least go pretty far and then people take a different view of that deal.
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Oct 22, 2010 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed big time
The haul he gave up was sizeable but he was getting a burgeoning ace to a playoff team full of talent. I can’t fault him much.
by James Kannengieser on Oct 22, 2010 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions
altho
we’ve seen that the DBacks on the field talent was a bit overrated… some balance there maybe but no great players.
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Oct 22, 2010 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
? that's not really true
they had a down year this year but most of them are still incredibly young and cheap and really good.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)
they don't have
one David Wright?
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Oct 23, 2010 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions
made my point
already a few posts up
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Oct 23, 2010 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions
No but they have J. Upton, Montero, Reynolds, Drew, Hudson
I don’t see how that’s a problem.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.
Justin Upton
will be. He’s better than Wright was at the same age.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)
not to mention we don't/didn't have one
Dan Haren/Brandon Webb. Or multiple players like Young, Johnson, Reynolds, Connor Jackson before the injuries killed him. Omar got lucky to be gifted two superstars and a blank check for Beltran and then a bunch of crap around them. Byrnes actually accumulated a pile of cheap well above average young players to surround his future superstars with limited funds in a short period of time.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)
I wasn't comparing them to the Mets.
I just said that they surely disappointed due to the Webb injury, but as it turned out, while they’ve had some balance they have not had any star players on the field the past couple of years and that may have made it tough for them to reach the brass ring ultimately.
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Oct 23, 2010 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions
they haven't had any star players
because they’re players are all like 22 and just tapping into their potential.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)
If webb doesn't go down
and ownership doesn’t force them to sign Byrnes and ship off Quentin they likely are. I mean what did they really give up? Only one of those players has reached the majors and been an impactful player and it’s full 2 (or 3) years later. And they don’t have any glaring holes on the major league roster that any of those guys would have filled, they likely would have just become trade bait anyway cause they all would have been blocked.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)
Here's a couple
From Beyond The Boxscore by the ubiquitous RJ Anderson (excerpts):
Josh Byrnes dug deep and definitely paid for Haren, but you have to admit that Brandon Webb, Haren, and Micah Owings form one hell of a 1-2-3 punch. You all know about Haren; essentially he’s good for 200 innings and a sub-4 ERA, which is very valuable, although I’m not sure he’s 3.07 ERA good. Bill James has him down for a 3.7 ERA next year, that’s pretty much in line what I’d expect – particularly considering that his HR/FB rates were down a bit from his career averages, and his line drive rate was also down.
It’s a bit interesting that Beane would deal Haren with three seasons more of control over him, I suppose he might knowing something we don’t, that or he just really loves the six players he got – the more likely scenario as he basically takes half of the D-Backs top ten prospect list.
First off, LOL about Micah Owings. RJ seems a little ambivalent about it but Haren outperformed the 3.70 ERA projection in 2008 and for his whole D-Backs career.
AZ Snakepit seemed to like the deal. I won’t excerpt it but they loved the pitching staff and figured to be contenders for years to come.
by James Kannengieser on Oct 22, 2010 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions
damn I was about to say lol @ micah owings before I read
the rest of your post.
The Haren trade would have been better if they hadn’t proceeded to give him away for poop. There’s no, at least surface, reason they couldn’t have gotten a better haul back for him. Considering what Lee and Halladay got back.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)
I should say it would be viewed better now
if they’d gotten a better package back themselves.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)
But but but
Joe Saunders is a WINNARZ!! He getz teh WINZ!!!
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Oct 22, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks
I wanted to see something like that BtB trade calculator to check how well those prospects were regarded 3 years ago, and how much was (over)paid in value.
I wasn’t aware of the context (post NLCS, expecting to contend for years, AZ liking the deal). I assumed (yeah, I know the saying) it was a team not expecting to contend, selling the farm for an ace that would change from .500 -2 to .500 +2.
here's a retrospective
from Andy Seiler from a few days ago actually on the trade and outcomes.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)
Why is it his fault
what’s bad about that trade?
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)
Yes, I will still be hopeful if Byrnes is the guy
But what this organization desperately needs is a firm hand to right the ship and keep Jeff out of what he should be kept out of.
More saber stuff
Byrnes, 40, served as D-backs GM from Nov. 2005 until his dismissal in July. A Haverford College graduate with a degree in English, Byrnes previously spent two years serving as assistant GM under Dan O’Dowd in Colorado and four under Theo Epstein in Boston, along the way developing a reputation as a strong proponent of advanced statistical metrics
-MLB.com
by Pack Bringley on Oct 22, 2010 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm torn
And it’s not just because of some MLB.com saber lip service. I think Byrnes might be a better fit long term. Alderson better short term and credibility wise.
by James Kannengieser on Oct 22, 2010 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Regardless of whom the Mets pick,
I really want to see the new GM institute a smart organizational philosophy that begins in rookie ball. For far too long the team has seemed like an incoherent, slapdash mess. The Orioles had it right decades ago, with the Oriole Way, that emphasized power, patience, pitching, and playing the game the right way. I know it’s easy to make fun of that last part, but taking the game seriously and always knowing what is called for in any game situation is part of what makes a winning team, and a team that’s enjoyable to watch.
I think alderson is a better fit
because we need a complete rebuild from the top to bottom including the minors and scouts and I’m not sure Byrnes has done anything like that, I think a lot of the scouts were already in place in Arizona.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)
I'm just waiting for some Swarthmore folks...
To start talking trash about Haverford.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Oct 23, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
They better not
I’ll break out a photo of my Swat Sucks shirt. Hate that place, even if my major is technically there.
by yellomellojello on Oct 24, 2010 2:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd be surprised if this is unusual.
Cot’s has most of the payroll data any team would need, and to combine scouting and stats just link your scouting reports to a player’s fangraphs or bbref page. Should be the norm, no? Well, aside from the Mets….
That's great
and I love Neyer, but he’s been pretty notorious for picking the Mets the past few years, and every year he predicts the Phillies will step back into the pack. I hope he’s right, but he keeps being wrong, and it sucks.
2009 Did Not Happen
This guy looks like a great choice...
He has a Masters in educational leadership, speaks Spanish (he taught high school Spanish), and is a hardworking and humble midwestern Lutheran. His son is named Nolan and he has a baseball diamond at his house, so he has history with the Mets and likely loves the game. Not to mention he’s from Iowa and has that baseball diamond, which means he may have access to the 27 Yankees.
And he grows small horses and large pumpkins in his spare time. No, really. This is in his bio.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Oct 23, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmm I think I'd take Angels over dead '27 Yankees anyday. Look what they did for the Angels baseball team...
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Oct 23, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess he didn't have any luck with that flux capacitor, huh?
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Oct 23, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Young, scouting background, made big trades and respected among GMs.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/did-josh-byrnes-deserve-to-be-fired/
Reading through the comments, the biggest criticisms are for trading the farm and hiring an unexperienced manager.
so is katz going to bring in sandwiches?
Gang green nation!
what can i say he's dwight fricking lowery
http://www.katzdeli.com/presentation.html
Gang green nation!
what can i say he's dwight fricking lowery
by JETSFANF0RLYF3 on Oct 22, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
"MOAR"
is a part of “lolspeak”, or what is called a “meme.” Look them up, there have to be some memes you’ll find funny.
0-82
NetsMets4life = Kat Stacks
by NetsMets4Life on Oct 23, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
...
"I get up every morning determined to both change the world and have one hell of a good time. Sometimes this makes planning my day difficult." ~ E. B. White
One of the great moments from that press conference
Making a point that it’s pronounced “Rick-Oh” in the beginning, then pronouncing it “Reek-Oh” by the end as if it’s no big deal. A great Wilpon microcosm.
by James Kannengieser on Oct 22, 2010 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Did he really? No. No one is that big of a shithead. Did he?
What an “eff you” to your employee.
Yes he did
And when someone told him about it, Fred said: “I’ve been calling him that for years.”
What's that about?
Whatever his name is
it ain’t the same as being called Riki-Oh.
by secret defense on Oct 22, 2010 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Reading through the AZ Snakepit interviews, he does put a premium on SP.
Roster depth and flexibility were also empathized. He seems to delegate some aspects of the job (like revenues), while keeping track of others (drafting, defense, ST drills) that other GMs don’t.
I still prefer Alderson
but it seems like they’re picking from between two good choices at this point.
The squeeky wheel lobby for the grease.
If Alderson is a shark, David Byrnes is an ill-tempered mutated sea bass..
Nothing can get by him; especially in a small room: Mike Francessa
I don't get why people are assuming Byrnes = continued Jeffy interference.
Byrnes has a history of standing up to his owners – to the point of getting fired. He fought them over signing the other Byrnes. He fought them over firing his manager. It’s not his fault if the owners over-ride him, it is their team after all. If the owners want something enough, there’s nothing he can do but strongly disagree.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.
I'm not assuming it
I’m simply throwing it out there as a topic of discussion. If you believe that Jeff Wilpon, despite his protestations to the contrary, inserts himself into baseball operations decisions, then it’s not such a logical jump to think he might favor a GM whom he could more easily influence. Byrnes’s history of standing up to ownership notwithstanding, he comes off as more malleable than Sandy Alderson.
It's speculation
but not entirely unfounded. If we see Alderson resign for “personal reasons” to “spend more time with his family”, we’ll know Jeff was being a dick.
i'd hope in the case of Jeff being a dick
alderson would choke a bitch
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)
by Gina on Oct 22, 2010 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So I googled "Do I have to choke a bitch?"
and I found this image:
Sandy Alderson for Mets GM
R.A. Dickey for Governor!
So much is happening in this shot...
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Oct 22, 2010 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions
It's a photoshop Mona Lisa!
Oh, the butcher and the baker and the people on the street: wheredotheygo?!?!? Right here: http://myentireteam.wordpress.com/
It would be better...
If all the people in the background had they heads switched around.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Oct 23, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
what the hell?
are those flower things really part of her dress?
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Oct 23, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
FYI, I believe they are cupcakes.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Oct 23, 2010 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
That's certainly the polite term for them.
And yes, yes, they are.
yeah, this is just conjecture.
and not really productive in any way I can think of now.
We’re on the brink of landing a real GM for the first time in a long while… that’s a cause for real joy.
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Oct 22, 2010 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
This.
Instead of settling for the failed GM’s right hand man, we’ll finally have a real baseball person running the team.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Oct 22, 2010 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not really talking to anyone in particular
Just that it seems to be that some people feel that if the GM isn’t Alderson, then Jeffy will be sticking his nose in all over the place when there’s really nothing to support it.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.
Well,
it’s reasonably to assume that Paris doesn’t want his toy taken away, and thus would tend to choose the GM he feels more able to push around. The Mets have never hired a strong GM during his watch, and Alderson certainly would break that streak.
What I'm saying is
that out of the two candidates left, neither is a push over. That’s the point.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.
It's very Mets
to hire a guy who says he considers “both sides,” etc., because the Mets (by all accounts) think of deliberation as a magical process and get bogged down listening to too many opinions. If Byrnes is the guy, perhaps he can convert that impulse into something useful.
I'm pretty sure
they get bogged down by not being smart enough.
any guesses on
new field bosses that either will consider?
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Oct 22, 2010 6:14 PM EDT reply actions
After reading about Byrnes some more
These are definitely my top two choices. Hahn is just too risky in his lack of a scouting background (especially because of the White Sox complete lack of a minor league system), and White is too risky because he ONLY has a scouting background.
Everyone knows Sandy’s background and Byrnes seems to be a great candidate as well. I can honestly say I would be very happy to see either of them chosen as GM. I would pick Alderson, but Byrnes could definitely be a successful GM.
well the sox lack of minor league system
is in large part because they don’t spend at all on it.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)
c'mon,
Hahn had a pretty decent sized geek quotient…
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Oct 22, 2010 6:31 PM EDT reply actions
speak for yourself
Jeff is enough nerd and geek for the entire franchise… tyvm. Need a GM with a bit of grit to stand Jeff down when he needs it. I just didn’t see that coming from Hahn…
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Oct 22, 2010 6:47 PM EDT reply actions
Sometimes...
you end up in that category just by not fitting into any other category. He’s certainly no jock and not much to look at.
can't he just be a loser
or the spoiled rich kid with no life skills or reedeming qualities? is that not a category?
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)
He's Prince Valium.
Let's never bunt again.
by Thomas Wachtel on Oct 23, 2010 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
is that Keith Hernandez?
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Oct 23, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
This is good news
It’s unusual to think that the Mets won’t let me down, so I’m going to start hoping they hire both of them, just so I end up back in my comfort zone of disappointment.
Yea, good news.
Glad to see that Wilpon seems to have head on right this time.
0-82
NetsMets4life = Kat Stacks
we need to hire one of them tomorrow
so we can start the dynasty and destruction of the yankees ASAP.
mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)
THE YANKEES LOST!!!
This makes me very, very happy.
Now all SF has to do is win one more game and we can have a toad-free World Series.
I really loved the way Jeter willed and grinded the ball out of the infield tonight.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.
I loved the two one-pitch at bats that he grinded (ground?) out.
He has An Edge.
Let's never bunt again.
by Thomas Wachtel on Oct 23, 2010 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Grissiony grinders don't worry about correct word usage, tense, or spelling.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.
Grinders? mmmmmmm....
YEAH, I’m from Connecticut…
"I get up every morning determined to both change the world and have one hell of a good time. Sometimes this makes planning my day difficult." ~ E. B. White
IT'S A GODDAMN SUB AND YOU KNOW IT!
Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.
by Ogre39666 on Oct 23, 2010 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Really.
A grinder is something you grind with. A sub is a sandwich you eat. C’mon, people.
And ARod Centaurish .190 BA in the series was so very godlike.
It’s possible the Yankers will be paying the left side of their infield $50 million a year for the next four years, and getting not a whole lot for it. That also makes me happy.
Not
"I get up every morning determined to both change the world and have one hell of a good time. Sometimes this makes planning my day difficult." ~ E. B. White
this is also
steamed cheeseburger territory
"I get up every morning determined to both change the world and have one hell of a good time. Sometimes this makes planning my day difficult." ~ E. B. White
Ted's
is the place.
"I get up every morning determined to both change the world and have one hell of a good time. Sometimes this makes planning my day difficult." ~ E. B. White
At least tell me you call it soda...
Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.
White Castle FTW
0-82
NetsMets4life = Kat Stacks
by NetsMets4Life on Oct 23, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Since when are steamed burgers disgusting...
Then again I actually have ordered liver and onions before at a restaurant, so my inner 80 year old may just be coming out now.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Oct 23, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Voluntarily?
Wow. ihink you just won the thread.
Liver and onions are delicious...
Don’t believe what ya heard.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Oct 24, 2010 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, in the interest of science
I did try cooking some up for what was reputedly an excellent recipe and I just couldn’t get it down. De gustibus non est disputandum.
im actually a fan as well, although i have it fairly sparingly
but its all in the prep. Make it wrong and its a rough experience
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 24, 2010 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Steamed hams?
Let's never bunt again.
by Thomas Wachtel on Oct 24, 2010 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, that's acceptable too.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.
I've never heard of a wedge either.
Isn’t that a type of golf putter or something?
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Oct 23, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmm it wasn't supposed to be funny.
It was a real question…sorry that you didn’t understand that.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Oct 23, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
mets-jason bay
get alderson-he brought in canseco and mcguire to oakland-maybe alderson can fix jason bay, our 16.5 million a year, 19th highest paid position player in mlb, 6 home runs and 47 rbi in 2/3 of a season- and get bay the “special help” bay obviously needed to put up big numbers in pittsburg and boston, especially since it looks like there will be no hgh testing in 2011(unlike the concern last year)
are you Scotty?
or paperman?
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Oct 24, 2010 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm thinking maybe GeddyLeeIsDante
Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.
I don't know...this guy seems a little less coherent in his writing style.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Oct 24, 2010 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
What the hell are you talking about?
What's that about?
by Brian. on Oct 25, 2010 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
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