Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Bob Sapp Denies Throwing Fights

The Hart/Hahn/Hale Plan

This is my Mets management plan. There are many like it but this one is mine.

Star-divide

President -- John Hart

Hart is currently an adviser for the Texas Rangers and a studio analyst for the MLB Network. He enjoyed tremendous success as the Indians GM in the '90s and was also GM of a mediocre Rangers club in the early '00s. Jon Daniels succeeded Hart as Rangers GM before the 2006 season and the franchise is one of the healthiest in baseball. Hart has demonstrated a progressive approach to running an organization, and no, that isn't code for "obsessed with statistics". His background is on-field development -- he managed in the minor leagues throughout the '80s and eventually managed the Indians for one season in 1989. Yet despite an on-the-surface old school mentality, he has been a leader in front office innovation. Nontraditional hires are his trademark. Baseball newbies Mark Shapiro (Princeton University), Chris Antonetti (Georgetown University), Josh Byrnes (Haverford College) and Paul DePodesta (Harvard University) were among his lieutenants in Cleveland. They signed young stars like Jim Thome and Manny Ramirez to team-friendly deals before the practice was fashionable. All available scouting and statistical tools are utilized under Hart regimes, which is all one can ask for as a fan.

This plan entails Hart as an adviser to the GM, a Sandy Alderson/Billy Beane type arrangement. However, Hart as GM is also appealing. Alderson is another of my preferred options for some kind of front office role. Considering he essentially just started his job as MLB envoy to the Dominican Republic it seems unlikely he would jump at a front office position. Hart appears more available.

General Manager -- Rick Hahn

Like Hart, Hahn is a total Mets outsider, something I prefer given the familial hires of the last two decades. The general manager selection should be an effective business manager, not just a great scout or statistics specialist. Hahn has the right mix of applicable educational background (University of Michigan undergrad, Harvard law, Northwestern business school) and on-the-job experience (nine years experience in the White Sox front office, currently serving as Assistant GM to Ken Williams). The White Sox official site lists his duties:

Rick Hahn's primary responsibilities include assisting Senior Vice President/ General Manager Ken Williams with determining the club's roster composition, all player acquisitions, talent evaluations and contract negotiations, as well as with overseeing every element of the organization's baseball operations activities, including the scouting and player development departments.

As Williams's right hand man, Hahn has experience in every aspect of running a ballclub. The White Sox aren't a perennial powerhouse, but they did win the World Series in 2005 and won the AL Central in 2008. They generally contend and Hahn has been a part of that. Plus he spoke about win values in an old New York Times article, melting my true SABR heart. Lip service? Possibly. But it sure beats the "false hustle" and "our plan, I like our plan" type mumbo-jumbo spewing out of Flushing in recent years.

Hahn has long been listed as a top GM candidate -- Baseball America named him the #1 GM prospect this year. Apparently, he declined to be considered for past GM openings (Pirates, Cardinals) but has made it known that being a GM is his goal. If not Hahn, other preferred (and realistic) candidates include Josh Byrnes, Dan Jennings and Ben Cherington.

Manager -- Chip Hale

The Mets' manager hire is far less important than the front office restructuring. Hale is in a tie with Bobby Valentine for my first choice. I went with Hale because:

  • I have reservations about Bobby V's apparent desire to have a say in front office decisions.
  • Bobby V probably wouldn't come cheap. Available funds are best utilized on players.
  • Hale's last name fits nicely with Hart and Hahn.

Hale possesses qualities that I look for in a managerial candidate -- former player, success managing at a high level (he managed the Triple-A Tuscon Sidewinders to a league best 91-53 record in 2006), experience coaching in the major leagues (he coached with the Diamondbacks before joining the Mets as third base coach this season) and as a bonus he is familiar with the Mets roster, without being a holdover from the 2007-2008 Willie-led failures. There is no stench of collapse on Hale. He has impressed as a third base coach this season. By "impressed", I mean "fans aren't tearing their hair out over Chip 'The Windmill' Hale". It doesn't mean all that much, but still makes me confident that he can make strong decisions under pressure. If an intelligent hire is made in the front office, I trust that a comprehensive managerial search will take place. Interview invitations sent to multiple qualified candidates and an explanation for the eventual decision is, once again, all one can ask for as a fan.

N.B. -- My plan also features Jeff Wilpon's exit from Mets baseball operations. I don't know to what extent Jeff has meddled during the last few seasons but I do know that I want him out of the decision-making process.

Comment 85 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Love the Full Metal Jacket reference

2011 Wishlist:
Bobby V, John Hart, Javy Vazquez, Chone Figgins, Gerald Laird, Randy Choate, Jesse Crain

by Stephen Schmidt on Oct 3, 2010 10:04 PM EDT reply actions  

That should have been Tony B in a shirtless rage

2011 Wishlist:
Bobby V, John Hart, Javy Vazquez, Chone Figgins, Gerald Laird, Randy Choate, Jesse Crain

by Stephen Schmidt on Oct 4, 2010 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's a joke right?

Gerald Laird? Is that some kind of typo?

by mailforpete on Oct 8, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Depo is back with the D Backs

And why get him? He had a chance To Interim GM Arizona this year and they passed on him themselves? We need somebody special.

by jdon on Oct 3, 2010 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

DePo

works with the Padres. He likes his job & would GM in a “perfect situation.”

Is the sun going to come up tomorrow?

by Brian. on Oct 3, 2010 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not DiPoto...Paul DePodesta who is an assistant with San Diego now

(Former LA Dodgers GM and proponent of saberstats).

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Oct 3, 2010 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Others have said here

that he’s unlikely to leave SD right now. Not to mention that he was basically driven out of LA by the local sportswriters, so I imagine that he’d be reluctant to take a job in NYC, even under optimal circumstances.

May you be locked in a battle of wits against Jerry Manuel.

by BobbyV_Incognito on Oct 4, 2010 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

They'd have the most awesome nickname...

Triple H!

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Oct 3, 2010 10:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Hooray Hale!

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Oct 3, 2010 10:25 PM EDT reply actions  

And this might just be my Byrnes bias talking

but I’d think having hired him before, Hart would hire Byrnes before Hahn.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Oct 3, 2010 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Love

how Don took the time to sign 2x!

"I get up every morning determined to both change the world and have one hell of a good time. Sometimes this makes planning my day difficult." ~ E. B. White

by CTRefJay on Oct 4, 2010 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Apparently, at some point, the Mets had official player portraits done in oil...

"I get up every morning determined to both change the world and have one hell of a good time. Sometimes this makes planning my day difficult." ~ E. B. White

by CTRefJay on Oct 4, 2010 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think the Hart/Hahn WonderTwin combo is a good idea

But I wonder if hiring Hale isn’t a good idea. Bringing in an outside voice with a new philosophy is probably the best way to go because promoting Hale could give a sort of “here we go again” impression to the players. The pressure of playing for a lameduck manager every year is another heavy burden on a team with many of them.

Charlie Manuel, while he may be a pretty lousy tactical manager, has created an atmosphere that keeps the players hungry to win—they buy into what he preaches. I’m not saying that hiring a Wally Backman-type is the way to go, but a figure who exudes authority while earning the respect of players would be best, be it Hale, Valentine, or whomever.

Trying to believe is my full-time occupation.

by Preach19 on Oct 3, 2010 10:39 PM EDT reply actions  

why not

can he light up a room? I am back to the flourescent suit strategy

by jdon on Oct 3, 2010 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Separately

Does anyone think Fred would hire Hahn just because he’s also a University of Michigan graduate?

Trying to believe is my full-time occupation.

by Preach19 on Oct 3, 2010 10:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Wrong process, right result.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 3, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

That NY Times article

seems to think so. I wouldn’t put it past Wilpon to do that.

Is the sun going to come up tomorrow?

by Brian. on Oct 3, 2010 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good post

In regards to Hahn, he’s also dispeled the notion that the Chi Sox won the chip because of “Ozzieball” on multiple occasions. Sam mentioned it(although his post seems to have disappeared), but would the low regard in which the Chi Sox minor-league system is held in be a cause of concern?

Is the sun going to come up tomorrow?

by Brian. on Oct 3, 2010 10:41 PM EDT reply actions  

They'd have to find a good scouting director

and almost anybody could be a step up from Rudy Terrasas. I mean…it wouldn’t really be Hahn’s job to build up the system, no? We hear all about Omar’s scouting “talents” but when it comes to the actual drafting, he has very little input. It’s the scouts, the scouting director and the minor league coordinator in charge of that. So hopefully that wouldn’t be a huge deal.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Oct 3, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

im not against it...

but there is no way Hale is the manager next year. Ticket sales and costs are the driving force in mets management decisions so backman is the guy next year.

by renzen on Oct 3, 2010 10:52 PM EDT reply actions  

If they get a intelligent, qualified GM/President

then they’re not going to go the “sell tickets” route. They’re going to go the “smart decision” route.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Oct 3, 2010 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't see why...

a GM coming from outside the organization will pick the current 3rd base coach of a loosing team to be the manager. If the GM had complete control over the picking of the manager they would most likely pick ’their guy" but I dont think that will be the case no matter what they said.

by renzen on Oct 3, 2010 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

And we all know that 3B coaches are not just major contributors towards, but directly responsible for losses...

Does he have Minor League managing experience? Check.
Does he have Major League coaching experience? Check.
Does he display the ability to develop relationships with players? Check
Does he show the ability to research and understand stats/scouting reports, form opinions/game-plans based on that information, and implement it? Check.

What more do you want? For him not to have had the “misfortune” of coaching during the Jerry Manuel era of Mets baseball?

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Oct 3, 2010 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dont understand the desire to have two GMs

Makes no sense to me. That said, either Hart or Hahn alone seem fine, though slightly uninspired choices. Together I think they might undermine each other.

Excellent - everybody knows that.

by borasblog on Oct 3, 2010 11:03 PM EDT reply actions  

I like it

the plan, I mean. They need a President and a GM. And a chain of command. Let Wilpon give them a budget, get out of the way, and watch the magic show.

by jdon on Oct 3, 2010 11:07 PM EDT reply actions  

magic huh. careful what you wish for

YOINK!

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on Oct 4, 2010 2:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

a quality exec

could do wonders with this payroll

by jdon on Oct 4, 2010 6:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

in two years......

Our cost structure is such that we don’t have much wiggle room under the current budget. However, we do have a ton of money coming off the books in two years.

by Coolpapabell on Oct 4, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

I really doubt our cost structure is like that

the Wilpons are probably making a pretty nice profit, especially if you include SNY, and if they spent up to the lt, which is like 40 million away from their current payroll, they’d probably gain enough wins for attendance (and thus revenue) to increase enough to cover what they’ve spent.

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)

by Gina on Oct 4, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Even if the can, it doesn't seem they want to, which still leaves you with a tight budget

but it seems to me that they are unwilling to do it. I think that an additional $40M puts us back to the previous high for our payroll. That was at a time when the economy was running at a much better clip than today.

I can’t say if they actually do have the money or not. But if they do, it seems that they are unwilling to do it. If they did want to spend then, $40M would clean up much of this teams problems.

by Coolpapabell on Oct 4, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn;t say that they don't want to

I think that they don’t know what they want to to do

That’s why I’m praying for a very competent and strong GM to come in with a clear vision. The Wilpons will follow the plan, and this nightmare will go away.

Then again, I could see today’s press conference with Jeff Wilpon dressed as the Easter Bunny.

Sandy Alderson for GM!
R.A. Dickey for Governor!

by Russ on Oct 4, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, I hope so

and we are still waiting for the MS paint of Jeff in an Easter Bunny costume.

by Coolpapabell on Oct 4, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

This made me literally LOL.

"Seriously, Lana, call Kenny Loggins ‘cause you’re in the danger zone."

by keithprime on Oct 4, 2010 3:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

what about....

If JJ Hardy retires after the playoffs, I say hire him as manager and make Hale the GM. Then you’d have Hale and Hardy

by mailforpete on Oct 8, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great, now I'm hungry for soup.

May you be locked in a battle of wits against Jerry Manuel.

by BobbyV_Incognito on Oct 8, 2010 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I want Alderson/Byrnes/Oberkfell

Proud supporter of a New York baseball team and a Boston football team. Yeah, deal with it!

by R_Adragna on Oct 4, 2010 12:00 AM EDT reply actions  

I have always liked Obie

but the mets do not seem to like him enough.

by jdon on Oct 4, 2010 6:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

he's their drunk dial

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on Oct 4, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

This
The Mets’ manager hire is far less important than the front office restructuring.

I’m with James. It doesn’t really matter to me who the manager is, so long as the right people are funneling him the right talent and making the right personnel decisions.

"Seriously, Lana, call Kenny Loggins ‘cause you’re in the danger zone."

by keithprime on Oct 4, 2010 4:02 AM EDT reply actions  

The Plan

Ng/Torre

I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. - Rogers Hornsby

BallKnowledge

by Shutdown on Oct 4, 2010 4:25 AM EDT reply actions  

I worry that Torre

would make us nostalgic about Jerry, in the way Jerry managed to re: Willie. I think Torre’s a hack who has benefitted from some stumbling into some very talent-rich situations.

by deadspy3 on Oct 4, 2010 5:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Freddy will do it

The Dodger Plan

Dear Sucker I Mean Met Fan
Thank you for your support if you thought this season was tough to swallow wait til next year. Thanks, The Pons.
-TheKid08

by NetsMets4Life on Oct 4, 2010 6:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

I really don't know a lot about Ng

But I think it would be awesome to have the first female GM. Then of course all the bigots who complained about Omar only signing Latin players would complain Ng only signed female players.

by Evan_S on Oct 4, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

or asian players?

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)

by Gina on Oct 4, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

would she be the first asian gm too?

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)

by Gina on Oct 4, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

I believe so

Is the sun going to come up tomorrow?

by Brian. on Oct 4, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

You only picked Hale over Bobby V to keep your precious alliteration

I know your game, Cannonlaz3r.

Ryan Miller was the true MVP.
I really hate Jerry.

by Jsz on Oct 4, 2010 7:39 AM EDT reply actions  

I'm not too crazy about Hahn

The Whitesox do a decent job at fielding competitive teams, but I just doesn’t seem like they have any organizational philosophy. That sort of makes me uneasy.

by Coolpapabell on Oct 4, 2010 10:32 AM EDT reply actions  

By the way

My vote is for John Hart as GM

by Coolpapabell on Oct 4, 2010 10:44 AM EDT reply actions  

I'm still holding out hope for Alderson

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)

by Gina on Oct 4, 2010 11:02 AM EDT reply actions  

That works too

Alderson as President
Kim Ng as GM
Bobby V, Wally or Hale as manager

Sign me up!

Sandy Alderson for GM!
R.A. Dickey for Governor!

by Russ on Oct 4, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

yeah,

Alderson with a younger GM admin like Byrnes could work but that’ll cost some money… but Hale does seem like a good choice for the dugout.

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Oct 4, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is my ideal Pres/Gm/manager set-up

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Josh Byrnes/Chip Hale as Mets 2011 GM/Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Oct 4, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

P.S.

I was crushed, and still am about not bringing in Kevin Towers.

by Coolpapabell on Oct 4, 2010 11:27 AM EDT reply actions  

Hate it

Actually, I don’t hate it, but it’s a four letter word that starts with “H”.

by tmu on Oct 4, 2010 12:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Hart and Valentine anybody?

I really can’t believe nobody has mentioned this yet.

Gas prices today are a lot like a pitcher's ERA. Anything under 3 is amazing, under 4 is pretty good and anything 5 and up is something you want to avoid.

by Bobby Baseball on Oct 4, 2010 4:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Gary_carter_small
fxcarden's Nightly Rant! - Vol. I, No. 1 (July, 2011)
159714144_040c6c1501_small
The Greatest Bison: Frank Grant and the Color Line
Small
A WIN METHOD Analysis of the Current State of the Mets
Img_1435_small
This Week in Mets Quotes
7820e59643c1371ad8a7f1a8b0b995ec67ecd1b0_full_small
An examination of Daniel Murphy and his lack of power

Recent FanPosts

Small
Game Replays
Img_1435_small
This Week in Mets Quotes
Small
Santana or Sabathia?
Small
Whats to be done with the 'Pen?
Small
What about Oswalt?
61atehunexl__sl500_aa300__small
This Week in Mets' Overreaction

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

At 5:30 PM EDT today Starting today at 5:00 PM EDT, witness one of the greatest renderings of visual sound effects ever!

UPDATE 1: My browser has crashed several times in the process from all the rants (FUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!) - as a result, there will instead be 4 or 5 separate installments of fxcarden's Nightly Rants! from 2011, with a similar pattern for the 2012 rants. Take my word for it, when I say that it's for the best. Here's the revised schedule:

Volume 1: 2011
No. 1: Today at 5:00 PM EDT
No. 2: Tomorrow
No. 3: Thursday
No. 4 and No. 5 (?) TBD

UPDATE 2: Vol. I, No. 1 (July, 2011) is now up!
beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeautiful colorization of Willie Mays' over-the-shoulder catch. Credit from Beyond the Box Score via Reddit. Embiggen at http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7071/7231074678_3faa94a82b_o.jpg
Frank Francisco is... The Most Interesting Closer In The World embiggen
2013 ALL-STAR GAME(TM) LOGO CONTEST

Major League Baseball has formally announced that Citi Field will be the site of the 2013 All-Star Game. (see video) In light of this, I have decided to launch an All-Star Game logo contest. To help get you started, I provided all of you with a sample All-Star Game logo. (click here to embiggen) If you wish to participate, please enter your submission with an image below, in the comments section. The contest ends on May 31st. I will choose a select number of finalists, and the community will vote on which of those logos is the best one.

Can you create a better logo than the sample logo provided? Then, give it a shot. Good luck to all participants!
Jon Rauch is awesome. Dan Tanna is, obviously, a fan of Greg Pomes.

Recent FanShots

Mets At The Quarter-Pole: Doing Things The Wright Way
WTF is up with all the larry lovefest
Corner IF Production: Will Up Go Down if Down Climbs Up?
Tell Me When It's Over: Ron Darling
Top Mets Prospects: Jenrry Mejia Makes Season Debut; Leathersich Dominates
Weekly SB Nation New York MLB Power Rankings
R.A. Dickey: A somewhat Intimate Portrait
Mets And Astros Celebrate 50 Years Together

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

Yahoo_full_count

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Gary_carter_small
fxcarden's Nightly Rant! - Vol. I, No. 1 (July, 2011)
159714144_040c6c1501_small
The Greatest Bison: Frank Grant and the Color Line
Small
A WIN METHOD Analysis of the Current State of the Mets
Img_1435_small
This Week in Mets Quotes
7820e59643c1371ad8a7f1a8b0b995ec67ecd1b0_full_small
An examination of Daniel Murphy and his lack of power

Recent FanPosts

Small
Game Replays
Img_1435_small
This Week in Mets Quotes
Small
Santana or Sabathia?
Small
Whats to be done with the 'Pen?
Small
What about Oswalt?
61atehunexl__sl500_aa300__small
This Week in Mets' Overreaction

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


THE BIG GUY

Aa_avatar_small Eric Simon

THE INCREDIBLES

Blackfish2_small Alex Nelson

Endy_small Rob Castellano

Img_1262_small Matthew Artus

Kanye_pekka_small Sam Page

Best_infield_ever_small James Kannengieser

Metsstitches_small Eno Sarris

48900_1085732804_4466_n_small Chris McShane

Lg_rocker_ap_small Matthew Callan

Billy_and_daddy_4th_of_july_small Bill Petti

THE NEWS GURUS

Mrmet_small Steve Schreiber

3_small Stephen Schmidt

159714144_040c6c1501_small Pack Bringley

124967042_crop_340x234_small Jeffrey Paternostro