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Around SBN: Ray Allen Fighting Age, Injury And His New Role

Mets Hire J.P. Ricciardi As Special Assistant To Sandy Alderson

Adam Rubin has the scoop.

"J.P. brings a wealth of knowledge and a breadth of experience to the organization," said Alderson. "I worked with him for over a decade in Oakland and I know first hand he’s a superb talent evaluator. He’ll be a tremendous resource in a variety of areas."

In his new role, Ricciardi will assist Alderson in all aspects of the baseball department.

Ricciardi was a candidate for a similar position with the Boston Red Sox, so if they were after somebody you can be pretty sure he was good.

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Good hiring, but I hope DePodesta comes along as well

There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ

The 2011 Mets- Rock bottom: We haven't reached it yet

by Syler on Nov 2, 2010 5:00 PM EDT reply actions  

inb4 Vernon Wells comments

He won’t be handling negotiations.

by Sam Page on Nov 2, 2010 5:02 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Or Alex Rios!

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Nov 2, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

if it was a good contract as you claim, then

it stands to reason that there would have been positive market value for that player… the record indicates that there was no market for that player… ergo, it could not have been a “good contract”…

do you see a flaw in that logic?

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Nov 2, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

The lack of a market

certainly could be due to the down year Rios was having at the time that the Jays decided they wanted to cut payroll, or, alternately, to teams simply not looking deeper than his low batting average last year.

by JoshNY on Nov 2, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

trying to explain the lack of market

is still a lack of market… and that is still the best indicator/assessor of good vs. bad contract…

and this is the principal reason why thing like estimating war value is more or less futile… or at best an esoteric exercise.

Market value is the only true way to assess a contract’s value.

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Nov 2, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

how is that still the indicator

like Josh said he had a down year. He had a great year this year. If he hit the trade market now there’d be a much bigger market for him. He just happened to have a down year. It’s like how there was no market for Aubrey Huff in the off-season, but there would be one now.

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)

by Gina on Nov 2, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

you're just saying that player performance fluctuates

maybe more than many sabres care to admit.

Statement was the Rios was a good contract. There is no better way to refute that absurd statement then the fact that he was given away for NOTHING. There are no players who have “good contracts” that have to be given away for nothing.

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Nov 2, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

what sabres admit player performance fluctuates

thats why one year isn’t considered a large enough sample size to make a judgement.

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)

by Gina on Nov 2, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

the first thing i was taught in SABR 101

was that player performances don’t fluctuate.

the second thing i learned is never to care to admit that they do.

HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.

by kendynamo on Nov 2, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not even sure what joke you're trying to make

but recd non the less.

All hail Miller Time.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Chip Hale as Mets 2011 Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Nov 2, 2010 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

WUT IF

You bought a stock at, like $5, and then you sold it at $2, and then it went up to, like $35? Yeah, you could have waited until it was $2, but $5 was still a pretty good value fer yah.

by tmu on Nov 2, 2010 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

it is amusing

that Huff is alternately pissed on and lauded, depending on the year….

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Nov 2, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

i think we need to define what influences a market

1. teams who need a player at that position
2. teams who can afford said player
3. teams who can trade the required amount for said player

None of those conditions define whether a contract is good or bad.

by Mike Clemente on Nov 2, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

ok...

and some number in fangraphs does…

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Nov 2, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

no

that number proves his value isn’t an absolute determinant of his trade value. The Jays had to trade him because of payroll cuts. Every team knew this. Rios was coming off a down year. There was no leverage for Toronto in this situation.

by Sam Page on Nov 2, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

if it was a "good contract"

that is, a reasonable financial commitment relative to the player value, then the market would have rushed in to obtain that contract… since the market didn’t rush to obtain that contract it means that it wasn’t enough of a financial value relative to the player value.

If there were no teams that had need or budget availability then again, it means the contract wasn’t as “good” as some are making it seem even if war value indicates otherwise.

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Nov 2, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

what does budget availability have to do with

whether it’s a good deal? If a house worth 1 milllion is on sale for 200,000 that’s a good deal whether you have 200,000 in cash to make the purchase.

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)

by Gina on Nov 2, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

idk, according to

mike clemente it goes to market value… ask him.

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Nov 2, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

in gina's example...

if no one has 200K to buy the house then the market for this house is zero. That doesn’t make the 200K a bad deal, since the house is “worth” 1 million.

by Mike Clemente on Nov 2, 2010 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

in the house example

houses get appraised for value.

As far as players, worth is determined by their performance level. WAR is a good way to do that.

by Mike Clemente on Nov 2, 2010 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

It's just a number on a piece

of paper. If the market cannot support it, it means nothing.

House appraisals are backed up by comparable sales data… if $1MM houses don’t sell, then they are deemed to be overpriced.

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Nov 2, 2010 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not for nothing...

But I wouldn’t exactly be using realtor systems as examples of numerical valuation systems that have proven to be spot on in the past few years. Even moreso, Fangraphs is working with a lot smaller comparator group, which increases the subjective bias of any appraisal system.

It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.

by MookieTheCat on Nov 2, 2010 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

theres no subjectivity in either system

it works the same with any market and any asset. i was just continuing the housing analogy that was already being discussed, but there are models for anything from stock prices to comic books to pork bellies.

HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.

by kendynamo on Nov 2, 2010 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

moreover,

if a player at that payroll commitment level is subject to such wild performance fluctuations, that’s another strong indicator of an overpay.

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Nov 2, 2010 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

but he's not subject to wild fluctuations

he’s had one bad year, it happened to be n a year where the economy crashed and they were forced to cut payroll.

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)

by Gina on Nov 2, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

no one is saying that the dumping isn't

subject to explanations… it’s still a dumping for nothing.

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Nov 2, 2010 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

??? but what are you bringing it up for?

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)

by Gina on Nov 2, 2010 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

you said he just had 1 bad year.

I assume as a mitigating factor to disprove the charge that his was not a good contract.

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Nov 2, 2010 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

no I mean the contract in general

and/or dumping.

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)

by Gina on Nov 2, 2010 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed. Even if Rios had just come off a 3 win season

instead of a replacement level season, given the length and amount of his deal, along with its being common knowledge the Jays had to cut payroll, the difference in Toronto’s leverage would have been very slight, on the order of getting all of one decent prospect instead of the nothing they received.

One of the particularly interesting things to me was how significant a roll of the dice picking up Rios—a player entering his decline years who had just come off a replacement level season—was for Kenny Williiams. It’s the kind of move that, if it goes badly, is brutally obviously the GMs fault. There’s really nowhere to hide, no excuses to make. Say Rios simply continued to post numbers like his 2009 season. Williams has then pissed away over $60 million. It’s the kind of move that can go a long way towards getting a guy fired.

Granted, Rios’s .273 BABIP in his lousy year certainly gave any tearm picking up Rios a very promising stat wrt an eventual rebound, but by all accounts Kenny Williams isn’t a GM who looks at that kind of stat. So far, so good, for Chicago, though Rios 2010 wasn’t so sensational that there isn’t still plenty of room for the deal to go sour. Rios is exactly the kind of ballplayer whose career can be over by 33.

In point of fact, take any projection system you like, and Rios’s contract, at the time it was signed, (reworked at arond 7/68 in April 2008) was a perfectly good deal for Toronto. At the time, given the going rate for wins, Rios needed to be only a 2 win player over the life of the contract. From a guy who had just put up a 3.5, then a 5 win season and who played a good CF (meaning he has the cushion of moving down on the defensive spectrum as he grew older), the general view at the time was that the Jays have gotten a very good deal. Someone could argue that Williams should have anticipated the market crashing, but even with that there’s a not insignificant chance that Rios will overperform his contract by 50%.

by Jack Str on Nov 2, 2010 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

i think howierose is pretty much right

the market dictates what a player is worth. say we have player X and we want to re-sign him. another team offers 1 year 3 million. we offer 1 year 5 million. assume that for this purpose money is the only consideration in the player’s decision, and he signs with us.

player X ends up being worth 10 million that season. is this a “good” contract? no, because we conceivably could have had him for 4 million, or 3.5, or 3 million and one penny. we netted 5 million, where we could have net more.

a contract can only be judged by the conditions under which it was made. if it was anything other than absolutely optimal in terms of net gain, i hesitate to call it “good,” especially if we’re looking at “good contract” – “bad contract” as if it was binary. under this logic, a huge overbid on a player that happened to produce at any level worth more than that would be a good contract. we can be more specific with numbers and money.

i also don’t think rios getting dumped for nothing has much bearing on the above.

by njk237 on Nov 2, 2010 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

No

I actually think you have to look at the outcome, and by outcome, I mean player performance. There’s the market price at the time the deal is made, and then there’s the value of the asset going forward. What’s determining how much folks are willing to pay is what they think he’ll do. And if he outperforms the average player acquired what you paid, you made a good deal. That you sold low in a time of financial need doesn’t negate the value of the deal, entirely, if the player ends up performing, although one might say that his continued performance with your team is entirely hypothetical.

by tmu on Nov 2, 2010 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

huh?

i don’t really get what part of what i said you are "no"ing. obviously the value of the asset is what determines your offer, this is part of “the conditions” under which the contract was made. obviously the outcome/value of a player will tell you whether you got positive or negative value, but no deal is optimal if it isn’t optimal. most probably, no deal could be “optimal” these days, because teams don’t generally overbid each other pennies at a time like an ebay auction. but if we know generally that a player could have been had for less, while the deal may still have value, we know for sure that it could have had more. it’s basic arithmetic.

by njk237 on Nov 2, 2010 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm sorry but that's just wrong

A good contract isn’t only good if it’s “optimal” – aka the lowest winning bid. A good contract is good simply if the player was worth more than what the team paid for his services (or even equal to what the team paid). Good and bad aren’t absolutes; they’re measures of degrees.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Chip Hale as Mets 2011 Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Nov 2, 2010 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

did you read what i said?
if it was anything other than absolutely optimal in terms of net gain, i hesitate to call it "good," especially if we’re looking at "good contract" – "bad contract" as if it was binary. under this logic, a huge overbid on a player that happened to produce at any level worth more than that would be a good contract. we can be more specific with numbers and money.

under your logic, we sign an unknown player out of the japanese league to a 20 million dollar 1 year deal. he happens to go completely nuts that year and is worth 22 million. though we could have net, say, 20 million, we only net 2. under your rule that’s a good contract. this completely ignores market forces, and the general “zero sum” nature of not only baseball, but the world.

that would be 20 million extra to spend on improving the team in other ways.

by njk237 on Nov 2, 2010 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

recognize that my argument is predicated on semantics

you’ll get no argument from me that when a player exceeds his contract value, it is a net positive. that’s simple enough.

however, where the market dictates a players value, ignoring that fact and committing more than was necessary, to me, can’t really be considered all that good. obviously this is a matter of degree.

by njk237 on Nov 2, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

The problem with that hypothetical is that it ignores good process.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Chip Hale as Mets 2011 Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Nov 2, 2010 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

quite the contrary

it extols “better” process, process as close as possible to optimal efficiency

by njk237 on Nov 2, 2010 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, the hypothetical where you trow $20M. on an unknown player

ignores good process.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Chip Hale as Mets 2011 Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Nov 2, 2010 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here's my take on this argument.

First, there is an assumption that there is some articulable manner of valuing human performance is advance, especially in the context of unique services to be performed by a human being that are highly contingent on relatively unpredictable value inputs such as injury. Basic economic principles such as market valuation work well for fungible goods, like pork bellies or corn. If you think the market is going to go up, you buy corn now, or more likely to rights to future corn now, and sit on it. It’s easy to tell whether your bet worked out later, because the market price is determinable. On the other hand, with a baseball player metrics such as WAR are mere estimates, and often disagree with one another by 10% or more depending on who you ask, and the idea that you can assign a set dollar figure to each game of WAR is subject to all sorts of criticism. The price of corn (assuming you specify the type of corn, its location, delivery method etc.) is not subject to such a large deviation, and you can fairly easily figure out how much corn you need to make X gallons of corn syrup or to feed Y cows for a month. In other words, for baseball, you have a squishy value figure correlated to a squishy analysis of performance, based on pre-deal scouting that is trying to value a human being performing a unique service.

Furthermore, some of the arguments based in economics I see here ignore opportunity cost and the optimization arguments based both on the deal itself and the cohort of possible deals. I see this alluded to a bit by njk237, but the fact is that, semantics notwithstanding, a “good” contract should be as close to “optimal” as possible, understanding the squishy nature of the valuation method described above. “Good” in my mind means not merely below whatever sort of cumulative estimate Fangraphs would assign to the player, but good in context of other opportunities you could have had, both at that position and on the team as a whole. A bet on corn would not be a good deal even if the price goes up, if that increase still lagged behind inflation and simply parking your money in the bank would have created more value via interest. “Good” in this case means at least “better than other available options.” Opportunity cost is likely higher in longer-term deals because it is harder to predict what will be available in the future, and how the money you lock up now will affect your later ability. Omar Minaya and his continuing effect in 2011 is about as good example of opportunity cost as I can think of. It also works in reverse: getting someone on the cheap now means better trade options in the future, thus creating opportunity in the trade market while simultaneously reducing opportunity in the FA market.

I guess my point here is that things like WAR and other metrics, while not bad means of analysis of something that usually defies simpler analysis, do have a tendency to lull folks into a false sense of security. This is common with formulae that allow you to plug in numbers and spit out a seemingly well-thought out result. But to analyze a deal as I would like to see from high-paid businesspeople and baseball quants includes a lot more than simply looking at these numbers. It includes a full predictive array of lost opportunity, true value to the team considering prospects at the position who may be within the system and soon available for cheap, whether the player plays up to his expected potential, and an in-depth analysis of whether value, as assigned by the WAR-creators, fully takes into account how the player fits into the team overall (i.e. if you already have a utility infielder/PH with a decent lefty split and a WAR of 1.5, then another guy with the same attributes might be worse less to you than to others who need to fill that slot, and rather that paying “market” (high bid) for him, your money would be better spent filling other roles).

It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.

by MookieTheCat on Nov 2, 2010 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Say what?

Sorry for channeling my inner Himmelstein here (said in a respectful manner), but it’s kind of what I’m thinking.

It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.

by MookieTheCat on Nov 2, 2010 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

How would you say it?

It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.

by MookieTheCat on Nov 2, 2010 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Something like

think about what similar players are paid and who else you could have had for the position and/or money..

by tmu on Nov 2, 2010 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Eh yeah...

I see your point. But I guess I like to explain basic economics while understanding that some folks on here get how opportunity costs work, and others don’t. There also are a number of subordinate points, such as the fact that your sentence ignores the first paragraph, the argument between “good” and “optimal,” and may be misconstrued as a pro-WAR argument. But yeah, I getcha.

It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.

by MookieTheCat on Nov 2, 2010 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with the first paragraph, too

It’s a squishy business, and, thus, a tough valuation pre and post hoc.

by tmu on Nov 2, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good to hear....

I was worried about being flamed there on a verbosity basis (I know I tend to write a lot, but hope that some folks may find it useful). I think the bigger point is that player valuation is really, really hard, and team valuation even harder. So when a guy like Sabean puts together a team that wins the WS, there are a ton of variables that merit further exploration, and so perhaps the stats that some hold—in my opinion—a little too dear need further examination.

It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.

by MookieTheCat on Nov 3, 2010 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was being a dick

and apologies, but I do think good points are often drowned in words.

by tmu on Nov 3, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

quick question

Did the Jays know that another team would claim Rios?

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Nov 2, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Probably

but at that point, due to the apparent drastic and immediate need to cut payroll, they judged the salary relief to be a positive enough result to essentially give him away.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Chip Hale as Mets 2011 Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Nov 3, 2010 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

And as a corollary

The other interested teams knew they could wait the Jays out and only give up money for Rios (instead of money and/or players).

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Chip Hale as Mets 2011 Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Nov 3, 2010 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

But "good" doesn't have to be close to "optimal" for it to be "good".

In the grand scheme of things, if a team breaks even on a player’s contract, it’s a good deal.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Chip Hale as Mets 2011 Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Nov 3, 2010 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

well, I don't think we know whether

or not the Jays actually tried to trade him during the in season trading period before placing Rios on the waiver wire…

This is a key element to determine whether or not there was positive market value for Rios.

I’ll clarify what I said earlier regarding a “good contract”… since another team agreed to take the player and pay out the contract then the market valued the contract as “fair”… Had the Jays been able to exchange that contract for some consideration in addition to merely the salary relief, then it could be considered “good”.

So I’d have to say it was “fair” not “good.” I think the distinction is important to make… especially when the market for contracts that go over 4 years is very thin. I agree that one can see how it wouldn’t be considered an egregiously bad contract when it was signed since Rios was about 27 then iirc… still, contracts of that length are rare and have a lot of downside to deal with if the player disappoints in any way.

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Nov 3, 2010 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think it's fair to call the Rios deal "fair"

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Chip Hale as Mets 2011 Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Nov 3, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

tl,dr

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)

by Gina on Nov 2, 2010 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

.
whether value, as assigned by the WAR-creators, fully takes into account how the player fits into the team overall (i.e. if you already have a utility infielder/PH with a decent lefty split and a WAR of 1.5, then another guy with the same attributes might be worse less to you than to others who need to fill that slot, and rather that paying "market" (high bid) for him, your money would be better spent filling other roles).

WAR takes into account playing time (its a “counting stat”) so that wouldn’t be a problem.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Chip Hale as Mets 2011 Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Nov 3, 2010 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

I thought about that when I was writing the thing above...

But I think that “value” might not be accurately reflected by playing time, especially in a utility role. Nick Evans, cough, cough. I think the inclusion of playing time is a start, but might not accurately reflect the overall value to the team, as opposed to others.

It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.

by MookieTheCat on Nov 3, 2010 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

In that case I don't think it's really anything that needs to be changed in the formula

A GM has to know that if you have 4 OF’s who consistently are >3 WAR, adding a 3 WAR RF won’t impact your team very much. It’s like asking that common sense be fit into the formula – in a word, not necessary.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Chip Hale as Mets 2011 Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Nov 3, 2010 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right...

And that was my point above: common sense dictates that you needn’t double up on something you already have, to the detriment of meeting unmet needs. A fairly obvious point, sure, but just part of the larger argument.

It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.

by MookieTheCat on Nov 3, 2010 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

You can say all you want of Ricciardi as a GM

but everyone agrees he’s one of the best talent evaluators/special assistant types there is. I think DePo is more likely to join the Mets front office now that both Alderson and JP are on board. For some reason I feel like the Mets are going to hire John Gibbons as their next manager and now with JP in the fold it seems even more likely. He was even drafted by the Mets.

by Ari Berkowitz on Nov 2, 2010 5:08 PM EDT reply actions  

John Gibbons has already turned down the Mets job

There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ

The 2011 Mets- Rock bottom: We haven't reached it yet

by Syler on Nov 2, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

He preemptively declined it

He basically said he didn’t want to change jobs.

Thus Spoke Keith Hernandez

"The lesson behind Moneyball is that if you are clever in your use of resources, you can gain power beyond your station. It is not, never has been, and never will be, that 'computer models' should take over the world." - Graham

by Thomas Wachtel on Nov 2, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

And he also said that "the Mets need somebody with a higher profile."

I don’t know what kind of in-game manager he is, but he is certainly fiery, which is a nice quality (just as long as we keep Shea Hillenbrand, Ted Lilly and Frank Thomas far away). If he’s a good in-game manager, then I hope he reconsiders because he is interesting to me, for sure.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Nov 2, 2010 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know

We have a bad history with managers Frank Thomas hates.

Thus Spoke Keith Hernandez

"The lesson behind Moneyball is that if you are clever in your use of resources, you can gain power beyond your station. It is not, never has been, and never will be, that 'computer models' should take over the world." - Graham

by Thomas Wachtel on Nov 2, 2010 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

wow

Shea Hillenbrand is a name I have not thought of in a while

by JoshNY on Nov 2, 2010 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

when Omar was outta here!

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Nov 3, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

thank god .

lohaus #54

by lohaus#54 on Nov 2, 2010 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's a tad ironic

that the same people who pine for stats before choosing to jump out of the way of a freight train pine for all of these celebrity Moneyball characters on hearsay and reputation. How’s Hee Seop Choi doing these days?

With Alderson, we already know that advanced stats will inform the Mets’ decision-making process. Why does it matter if “DePo” (wretch) comes along? Sometimes the pioneers are eclipsed by followers.

by tmu on Nov 2, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

why is DePo wretch?

and DePo isn’t pined for on hearsay and reputation, he’s pined for on results. Before his firing in LA he made a bunch of moves that no one understood that turned out to be brilliant. Lo Duca for Penny being the prime example and signing Drew and Lowe to such cheap deals.

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)

by Gina on Nov 2, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

The wretch was for giving a front office guy a nickname

Although I’m all for shortening Ricciardi to “J-Ric”. (wretch).

Brilliant? Really? He got too much credit for ’04 and too much blame for ’05 (worst record in franchise history,) seems like.

by tmu on Nov 2, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

worst record in franchise history?

Wha?

DePodesta isn’t God, but he made some fine moves that got the Dodgers into the playoffs multiple times.

"It’s just everytime we think the bar can’t get lower, they lower it. Now next year we’ll just be happy to hear that rogue shirtless officials aren’t implementing useless detrimental drills in spring training for no apparent reason."

-Gina, 3/1/10

by Greenpoint Ian on Nov 2, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

OKFINE

Second worst record in the Los angeles part of franchise history.

by tmu on Nov 2, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

with a ton of injuries

book-ended by playoff appearances in 2004 and 2006. What point are you trying to make?

"It’s just everytime we think the bar can’t get lower, they lower it. Now next year we’ll just be happy to hear that rogue shirtless officials aren’t implementing useless detrimental drills in spring training for no apparent reason."

-Gina, 3/1/10

by Greenpoint Ian on Nov 2, 2010 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

PWNED, DAWG!

Omar had injuries, too.

2006, the 88 win juggernaut — Ethier, Loney, Martin — not drafted by DePodesta. Nor was Billinglsey.

Naturally, DePodesta was not involved in the crucial in-season acquisition of Maddux, either, nor Kenny Lofton, who played a key role down the stretch. Indeed, after the ASB, the team big-time tanked. The youngsters and newly acquired players got them into the playoffs. Derek Lowe was really good, and Penny was pretty good. Not sure how much of the rest was DePodesta.

by tmu on Nov 2, 2010 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

JD Drew was on the team

and was their best player, Jeff Kent was also on the team. Billingsley threw all of 88 innngs that year, and Loney only had 111 PA’s, so I’m going to say they didn’t contribute that much.

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)

by Gina on Nov 2, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which would be ignoring the fact

that they went 38-19 from August on, which is when the youngsters and new acquisitions took over.

by tmu on Nov 2, 2010 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

JD Drew

had a .940 OPS after the all star break
Derek Lowe had a 3.49 ERA after the all star break
Jeff Kent had an .891 OPS
Rafael Furcal had a .963 OPS after the all star break
Andre Either however had 242 at bats… and a .773 OPS

but who’s ignoring facts? Or was it Loney’s 62 at bats that did all the powering?

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)

by Gina on Nov 2, 2010 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Give me a break

you’re giving the guy credit for an 88 win team that was below .500 before the Maddux deal and relied on a bunch of players that he didn’t draft or sign, like Garciaparra and the young guys I mentioned, with a manager he didn’t hire, etc. The year before, they were a 71 win team. There is no “genius” in a couple of contracts that looked OK. He paid Furcal more than we paid Oliver Perez. None of these guys was an incredible value, and J.D. Drew opted out soon after. It was also a $98MM payroll.

And finally:

by tmu on Nov 2, 2010 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Finally nothing

it was to say tyhat Lowe credits Maddux with helping him greatly.

by tmu on Nov 2, 2010 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

what

like the young guys you mentioned? One of whom sucked, one of whom had all of 62 at bats, their best players EVEN IN THE SECOND HALF, were the ones I just showed you the second half stats for. How in the world can you argue that andre either’s .773 OPS and Loney’s 62 at bats had more to do with their success in the second half than the performances above, or Martin’s .780 OPS, Kenny Lofton’s .793 OPS, Nomar’s .694 OPS? That’s are what you think powered them in the second half? Not the numbers I posted above? Like seriously, are you trolling right now? Is this a joke?

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)

by Gina on Nov 2, 2010 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

No joke

I think the main point is getting away from you. Nomar was replaced by Loney, and the team won after the acquisition of the other players (also Lugo and Betemit.) A SABR advocate would say that they didn’t contribute to winning as much as the team’s big money players (shocker, that.) But the facts are the facts — the wins and losses and trades as well as the hits and walks. The team was not that fantastic and was not all DePodesta. He really wasn’t there long enough to have a huge impact either way. Kent and Drew were decent short term signings, and, ultimately, they did make the playoffs, but they also really, really didn’t make the playoffs the previous year, and signing older, injury-prone players is something for which Omar was roundly criticized.

DePodesta’s drafts weren’t incredible hauls, but he did get Blake DeWitt.

Perhaps his best move was one of his first, acquiring one Jayson Werth.

by tmu on Nov 2, 2010 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Grission and hope?

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Chip Hale as Mets 2011 Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Nov 2, 2010 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Their desire to win

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 2, 2010 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

He paid Furcal more than LOLiver because

Furcal is better than LOLiver. I don’t see the point there. Furcal is a pretty solid SS.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Nov 2, 2010 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

as far as I can tell there is no point

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)

by Gina on Nov 2, 2010 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's what I assumed.

Oh well…gave it my best shot.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Nov 2, 2010 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

how not?

that’s similar to what we’re likely to pay reyes, and probably what a similar short stop would get in arbitration.

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)

by Gina on Nov 2, 2010 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

BECAUSE HE'S NOT!!!!!

Shit, we’re gonna pay Reyes $12MM?

Well, if that’s true, that’s true.

by tmu on Nov 2, 2010 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's like poor man's Carl Crawford

And Crawford will probably get near Beltran money.

by Evan_S on Nov 3, 2010 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

So he's not worth $12M.

because he’s not.

Sound reasoning right there…

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Chip Hale as Mets 2011 Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Nov 3, 2010 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

He's not because

I said so!!!

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Nov 3, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Loney OPS after ASB

1.099.

Granted, he only drove in 15 runs, but. . . .

by tmu on Nov 2, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

This DEPO trade rocked for both teams

Acquired Jason Phillips from the New York Mets for Kaz Ishii

by tmu on Nov 2, 2010 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, no I didn't

OK, I did. Wreally, honestly, I did not know how to spell “retch,” despite a lot of experience with the verb in college. You’re wright.

by tmu on Nov 2, 2010 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sandy needs lieutenants

He’s going to hire people to advise him, it’s not a one man show. Ricciardi and DePodesta apparently (based on information available to the public) played a role in the A’s success a few years back and enjoyed moderate success as GMs. Alderson is likely comfortable working with them, and trusts them — it’s easy to see why people are happy about the hiring(s).

by James Kannengieser on Nov 2, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I'm sure he's great

(not sarcasm) I just can’t get too excited about him vs. some unknown hotshot who could be just as good. Once you get Alderson running the show, I think you’re in fine shape.

by tmu on Nov 2, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

the hotshot isn't unknown

it’s him vs Ricco…the man who wanted Jeff Francoeur

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)

by Gina on Nov 2, 2010 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

That isn't fare at all

That trade wasn’t really a matter of Ricco having a hard on for Francoeur. It was more a question of what they could get for Church. I haven’t read anything suggesting that another team offered anything better than Francoeur. If my memory serves me right-it often doesn’t-the Mets shopped Church pretty hard.

by Coolpapabell on Nov 2, 2010 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know I know

I’m just terrified of John Ricco

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)

by Gina on Nov 2, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think surronding him with the right people is great for him

He sort of gets it.

I remember reading his presentation that he co-authored for the winter meetings a few years back. It was on the advances of quantitative range analysis. It was pretty solid.

He still needs time to de-toxify from the Minaya poising.

by Coolpapabell on Nov 2, 2010 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Terrified of the unknown?

Or is there a reason that you are scared of him? Just because he had to work with Omar and Tony B. is no reason to assume he is a lousy talent evaluator.

"Baseball is a game played by the dextrous but only understood by the POIN-dextrous"-Professor John I.Q. Neidelbaum Frink, Simpsons

by Blame-everyone-else on Nov 2, 2010 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well I think that's part of it...

he’s not a talent evaluator. His specialty lies more on the business side of things and is now learning more about the talent side. I think that’s a factor that scares people some.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Nov 2, 2010 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I kind of like keeping him

If we have Ricco, Riccardi, and DePodesta as a triumvirate of advisers – one for business, one for talent/scouting, one for statistical analysis. We’re building an all-star team!

Thus Spoke Keith Hernandez

"The lesson behind Moneyball is that if you are clever in your use of resources, you can gain power beyond your station. It is not, never has been, and never will be, that 'computer models' should take over the world." - Graham

by Thomas Wachtel on Nov 2, 2010 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now we just need DePodesta to change his name to fit in with the triumvirate...

Paul RiccPodesta! Perfect!

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Nov 2, 2010 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually

when you put it that way, Ricco being on-board isn’t so scary.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Chip Hale as Mets 2011 Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Nov 2, 2010 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can someone explain to me...

How special assistant to the GM differs from special assistant to the traveling secretary?

It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.

by MookieTheCat on Nov 2, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

special assistant to the gm

is allowed to suggest trading for Jeff Francoeur

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)

by Gina on Nov 2, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

The former

will get fired if he drags the WS trophy around the parking lot.

by Mount17 on Nov 2, 2010 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's

the Under Assistant West Coast Promotion Man

We gonna rock down to Alderson Avenue...and say "who was Minaya?"

by CTRefJay on Nov 2, 2010 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

all i want to know is if the mets win a world series or not

once the computer machine tells me if we have or have not i can get back to my other hobbies.

HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.

by kendynamo on Nov 2, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thus, making everyone in Metsmerized land go bat-shit psychotic.

Proud supporter of a New York baseball team and a Boston football team. Yeah, deal with it!

by R_Adragna on Nov 2, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

RIP John Ricco

"Never throw a slider to The Glider."

- Ed Charles, No. 5

"Who has more fun than people?"

- Ralph Kiner

by The Glider on Nov 2, 2010 5:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Oh Ree-co, Ree-co, because Ree-co
Oh Ree-co, Ree-co, because Ree-co
Yihla Moja, Yihla Moja
-The man is dead

by Jonathan. on Nov 2, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ricciardi/Ricco

Have different job titles. It varies a little on organizational structure, but “Special Assistants” typically have less involved roles than “Assistant GMs.” Special Assistants usually just are on permanent standby to advise a GM about personnel or other aspects of baseball operations. They could be sent on scouting or player instruction assignments, but they are not usually very hands-on. Assistant GMs have a more defined role as the GM’s right hand, which is presumably what Ricco will do. So Ricciardi really has nothing to do with Ricco’s role.

And for the record, it’s probably not fair to define Ricco on what little you know about him in his role as Minaya’s assistant. An assistant could do a good job in a poor organization, in my opinion. To use a football analogy, the Lions hired Matt Millen’s assistant GM, Martin Mayhew, to succeed him in the role. Everyone threw a hissy fit because it was inconceivable that a Millen lackey could know how to run an organization. And thus far, Mayhew has been a phenomenal fit, even though the results aren’t quite there yet. He drafts well, trades well, is a tireless worker, hires smart coaches and listens to them, is the anti-Millen in every possible way. It’s really mind-boggling.

All of which isn’t to say that Ricco is a Martin Mayhew. But I do think it’s not fair to call him worthless on the basis of one transaction of somewhat ambiguous origin and that his boss wasn’t a great GM. Look at it this way: if Sandy Alderson, who knew him at least a little from their days at MLB, didn’t want John Ricco in his front office, he could have told the Wilpons to get rid of him first. That tells me something.

by Alex Nelson on Nov 2, 2010 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

This

Ill add that Ricco managed much of the GM hiring process, and I thought overall that the Mets did an A+ job with it. Far as I am concerned, Ricco gets a clean slate.

"There’s talent in these here waters. Alderson just has to clear up the algae around the edges." - RJ Anderson / Fangraphs

by Dandy Salderson on Nov 2, 2010 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Um

“Managed much of the hiring process”? What does that mean? He scheduled the appointments of all the other guys who were more qualified than him? And who already didn’t know it was going to be Alderson?

My only point was, now that Alderson has brought “his guy” (Ricciardi) in, the chances of Ricco succeeding him as GM – notwithstanding how great a candidate Ricco may be – are pretty slim.

"Never throw a slider to The Glider."

- Ed Charles, No. 5

"Who has more fun than people?"

- Ralph Kiner

by The Glider on Nov 2, 2010 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not really

the people who will be choosing the next Mets GM will be the Wilpons (or whoever the owners are at that time), not Alderson.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Chip Hale as Mets 2011 Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Nov 3, 2010 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

He managed the process

The guy isnt a secretary, lets give him credit when it is due. The short list of GM candidates was near perfect, and I highly doubt Jeff was able to come up with those names.

"There’s talent in these here waters. Alderson just has to clear up the algae around the edges." - RJ Anderson / Fangraphs

by Dandy Salderson on Nov 3, 2010 7:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was able to find

Jeff’s original GM candidate list. This highly confidential document is located here.

"There’s talent in these here waters. Alderson just has to clear up the algae around the edges." - RJ Anderson / Fangraphs

by Dandy Salderson on Nov 3, 2010 8:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'll assume his #1 candidate was Lenny Dykstra.

Those Wilpons and their money losing!

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Nov 3, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with pretty much everything until the last sentence.

You don’t make taking a job conditional on being able to fire an assistant who’s a favorite of the owners unless you really believe the guy in question will make your job difficult to impossible. There are lots of ways to work around and marginalize an assistant who you might think is weak, or even incompetent.

by Jack Str on Nov 2, 2010 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wait

so was this what the press conference was for?

2009 Did Not Happen

by cjmulrain on Nov 2, 2010 5:34 PM EDT reply actions  

And thus, J.P. Ricciardi dog was born

Melo? Not for my Favors!
NetsMets4life = Kat Stacks

by NetsMets4Life on Nov 2, 2010 5:51 PM EDT reply actions  

His dog is a question mark?

It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.

by MookieTheCat on Nov 2, 2010 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Rec'd

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Chip Hale as Mets 2011 Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Nov 2, 2010 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

His dog is Nick Evans.

It all makes sense!!!!

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Nov 2, 2010 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Of course!

How could I have missed that.

It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.

by MookieTheCat on Nov 2, 2010 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Anway, I'm fine with this

If Sandy is getting the band back together, I have no problem.

"It’s just everytime we think the bar can’t get lower, they lower it. Now next year we’ll just be happy to hear that rogue shirtless officials aren’t implementing useless detrimental drills in spring training for no apparent reason."

-Gina, 3/1/10

by Greenpoint Ian on Nov 2, 2010 6:03 PM EDT reply actions  

"We're on a mission from God"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKZSqd5Y8nA

"Never throw a slider to The Glider."

- Ed Charles, No. 5

"Who has more fun than people?"

- Ralph Kiner

by The Glider on Nov 2, 2010 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Two white men out there

Dressed like Hassidic Jews. One ordered nothing but a piece of toast.
-Sandy Alderson!
The other, order four whole fired chickens.
-Saul Katz!

"There’s talent in these here waters. Alderson just has to clear up the algae around the edges." - RJ Anderson / Fangraphs

by Dandy Salderson on Nov 2, 2010 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

You, sir....

Know your Blues Brothers. Don’t ever let anyone tell you different.

It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.

by MookieTheCat on Nov 2, 2010 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

And I was fully expecting

A half dozen recs on this one.

"There’s talent in these here waters. Alderson just has to clear up the algae around the edges." - RJ Anderson / Fangraphs

by Dandy Salderson on Nov 3, 2010 8:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

Since you asked for it..

It is now green.

It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.

by MookieTheCat on Nov 3, 2010 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm strongly considering it.

Thus Spoke Keith Hernandez

"The lesson behind Moneyball is that if you are clever in your use of resources, you can gain power beyond your station. It is not, never has been, and never will be, that 'computer models' should take over the world." - Graham

by Thomas Wachtel on Nov 2, 2010 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

another thought on this

If Alderson really is assembling the supporting cast of “Moneyball” in the Mets front office, the Wilpons had better show more spine with the media than they’ve done in the past, because we all know that idiots from WFAN and the back pages (think Lupica and Francesa) are going to have a field day screaming “NERDY NERDY NERDY!” and riding this regime in ways they never did with Minaya.

"It’s just everytime we think the bar can’t get lower, they lower it. Now next year we’ll just be happy to hear that rogue shirtless officials aren’t implementing useless detrimental drills in spring training for no apparent reason."

-Gina, 3/1/10

by Greenpoint Ian on Nov 2, 2010 6:18 PM EDT reply actions  

So what?

The Wilpons are not going to blow something up unless the team sucks ballz, and it’s safe to say Alderson gets more than a year to turn it around. Say what you will, but “media pressure” wanted Willie and Jerry and Omar all out on their arses long before it actually happened.

by tmu on Nov 2, 2010 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd guess Omar was kept around because of his contract

which begs the question, why did he get an extension after 08?

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)

by Gina on Nov 2, 2010 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

the Pons were high?

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Nov 2, 2010 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Smoke 'em if you got 'em

Thus Spoke Keith Hernandez

"The lesson behind Moneyball is that if you are clever in your use of resources, you can gain power beyond your station. It is not, never has been, and never will be, that 'computer models' should take over the world." - Graham

by Thomas Wachtel on Nov 2, 2010 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

"Remember to bring a towel"

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Chip Hale as Mets 2011 Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Nov 3, 2010 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yup--2011 is essentially a free year for Alderson.

If the Mets aren’t good, Minaya gets the blame. If they do anything at all, Alderson will get much of the credit for succeeding in an impossible situation.

by Jack Str on Nov 2, 2010 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Those fools will wilt in the face of Sandy's steely gaze.

It’s just a matter of time before the whole NY sportswriting world is slathering over moneyball.

by SuperT on Nov 2, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I lol'd

when I pictured Fatcesa in my head as Private Pile [sic].

We gonna rock down to Alderson Avenue...and say "who was Minaya?"

by CTRefJay on Nov 2, 2010 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

lemme schee yer war fasch

WAAAARRRRRGGGTTTHHHH

THATSCH A WAR FASCH

HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.

by kendynamo on Nov 2, 2010 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

OMG!

I can’t wait for Francesca to try and “get” Alderson just to have it blow up in his face – or will he just cut the phone line like he usually does when he’s in danger of being exposed as an idiot.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Chip Hale as Mets 2011 Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Nov 2, 2010 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nah, he's exposed as an idiot daily and

yet he keeps on shitting out of his mouth on a daily basis.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Nov 2, 2010 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well yea, he gets exposed as an idiot to people who can think complex thoughts

but not to the other blithering idiots.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Chip Hale as Mets 2011 Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Nov 2, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I want an Alderson/Francesa face to face...

Or even better, a road race. Like the “who’s the bigger man 10K.”

It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.

by MookieTheCat on Nov 2, 2010 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Francesa would certainly be the "bigger man" if you know what I mean...

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Nov 2, 2010 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

What has been seen....

It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.

by MookieTheCat on Nov 2, 2010 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

i can't with this

i just can’t

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)

by Gina on Nov 2, 2010 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I get the feeling no one's going to be calling Alderson a nerd

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)

by Gina on Nov 2, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Plaschke called DePodesta a nerd

and Paul was a college football player. Granted Marine > college football player in the hierarchy of badassery, but I think it’s safe to say that both are way above “sportswriter” in that hierarchy. It didn’t stop Plaschke…

"It’s just everytime we think the bar can’t get lower, they lower it. Now next year we’ll just be happy to hear that rogue shirtless officials aren’t implementing useless detrimental drills in spring training for no apparent reason."

-Gina, 3/1/10

by Greenpoint Ian on Nov 2, 2010 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah

but DePodesta looks like a nerd, also he played football at Harvard. Which just makes him one of the larger nerds.

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)

by Gina on Nov 2, 2010 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

A nerd who can block

and write a 15,000 word dissertation about the evolution of blocks.

The Mets GM is Sandy Alderson: A Dynasty is Born
R.A. Dickey for Governor!

by Russ on Nov 2, 2010 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do I hear charity boxing match?

I think I hear charity boxing match.

It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.

by MookieTheCat on Nov 2, 2010 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

rec'd

"It’s just everytime we think the bar can’t get lower, they lower it. Now next year we’ll just be happy to hear that rogue shirtless officials aren’t implementing useless detrimental drills in spring training for no apparent reason."

-Gina, 3/1/10

by Greenpoint Ian on Nov 2, 2010 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do you watch Bored to Death?

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Chip Hale as Mets 2011 Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Nov 2, 2010 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I remember

Ted Danson v Oliver Platt was an epic matchup

by Evan_S on Nov 2, 2010 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

That was part of my inspiration for the idea...

That and Howard Stern charity boxing match from years ago (I forget who his opponent was).

It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.

by MookieTheCat on Nov 2, 2010 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

the heir apparent ?

when alderson is done look for j.p. to be the new g.m. great hire for the mets things are starting to shape up really fast .

lohaus #54

by lohaus#54 on Nov 2, 2010 9:36 PM EDT reply actions  

I wouldn't say that...

Alderson is signed for 4 years, no? A lot can change in 4 years…perhaps Ricciardi gets offered a GM gig in a year or two. I wouldn’t assume that he’s the heir. Remember also that John Ricco is still in the house.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Nov 2, 2010 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yup

kind of like how Kevin Towers worked for the Skanks for a while before being hired by Arizona.

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by Ogre39666 on Nov 2, 2010 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe John Ricco has skills that are useful...

Just because a guy isn’t very good at player matters does not mean that he’s not good at other GM-type duties, such as back office work. If that’s the case, I think he’s a good keeper, allowing the baseball folks to focus on baseball while making sure that other matters are attended to. This view of him reminds me of a tax lawyer who I used to work with who you would never, ever allow to talk to clients because he was seriously bad with people (really nice guy, but he didn’t know how to talk to non-lawyers). But if you wanted a tax question answered quickly and correctly, there is no one I’d rather have go to. Some folks can be extremely valuable so long as they are used only towards their strengths.

It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.

by MookieTheCat on Nov 2, 2010 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

but Omar and the Wilpons

thought him competent to keep around and hire. That’s a pretty big strike against him isn’t it?

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)

by Gina on Nov 3, 2010 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

No argument there....

Except that there are dual concerns sometimes exist. Some folks are good at numbers and business, and some are good at investment analysis etc. For all of our shared concern about Paris, he built a stadium in NYC, which leads me to believe that he has good people working on finance and other similar matters. I think we need to segregate business matters and team matters, and hopefully that’s what we’re seeing. “Hopefully” being the operative term there.

It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.

by MookieTheCat on Nov 3, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Completely OT

but have you seen this?

2011 Mets - .500 or Bust!

by CTRefJay on Nov 2, 2010 10:27 PM EDT reply actions  

Wow haha

That’s like the slap-chop remix

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In lobby for Chip Hale as Mets 2011 Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Nov 2, 2010 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

DJ Steve Porter

is the guy who did the Slap Chop remix, so that makes a ton of sense.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Nov 2, 2010 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, well then yeah lol

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Chip Hale as Mets 2011 Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Nov 2, 2010 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did Moss ever win a ring?

I don’t think he did, but was wondering just now.

It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.

by MookieTheCat on Nov 2, 2010 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

nope

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)

by Gina on Nov 3, 2010 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

HAHA

Whoever made that, he’s got a fan.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Chip Hale as Mets 2011 Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Nov 2, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

sweet

2011 Mets - .500 or Bust!

by CTRefJay on Nov 2, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Awesome

He can’t make us any worse.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 2, 2010 11:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Bill James Fielding Bible: Ike 3rd best fielding 1B

… in all of baseball!!!!! Wooo Hooo!

http://www.billjamesonline.net/fieldingbible/complete-votetally.asp

"Never throw a slider to The Glider."

- Ed Charles, No. 5

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- Ralph Kiner

by The Glider on Nov 2, 2010 11:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Good news....

Having watched more games on Gamecast this season than on TV, Ike’s fielding prowess was news to me. I like to see things like this. Thanks.

It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.

by MookieTheCat on Nov 2, 2010 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

We need to cling to whatever little nuggets

of good news comes our way.

"Never throw a slider to The Glider."

- Ed Charles, No. 5

"Who has more fun than people?"

- Ralph Kiner

by The Glider on Nov 2, 2010 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

That Utley sure is a horrible fielder, no?

And Jose didn’t even get 1 vote? Freaking Wilson Valdez got a vote!

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Chip Hale as Mets 2011 Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Nov 3, 2010 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

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