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Around SBN: What If This Is It For The Celtics? End Of An Era Looming

J.P. Ricciardi's Value To The Mets

In our first discussion about a potential Paul DePodesta/J.P. Ricciardi reunion in Flushing, the conversation predictably veered toward "Yay DePodesta!", "Boo Ricciardi!", and of course, "Hooray Beer!" Ricciardi's poor reputation and d3p0's devotion are no surprise. As much as DePodesta seems earnest and fan-friendly, Ricciardi comes across as arrogant and self-serving.

Nobody likes a loser; nobody tolerates a loud loser. Ricciardi lead the Blue Jays to no postseason berths, made excuses, called Keith Law an idiot, and said Adam Dunn hated baseball. The last two offenses left him in especially poor standing with true SABR-fans, whose perfect Saturday night generally involves a riveting Keith Law ESPN chat, an Adam Dunn walk, 20 unnecessary fangraphs updates, and a nice long bath.

Yet, I empathized with the guy. In particular, I loved the 2008 Blue Jays, a team Jay Jaffe called, "the strongest fourth-place team in Wild Card-era history." Though Ricciardi's constant whining about the Yankees and Red Sox was at best grating in light of the Rays' success, the 2008 Blue Jays seemed unfairly obscured by their division.

Before the A's and Rays made it trendy, Ricciardi built teams with an extreme emphasis on pitching and defense. That 2008 season, Roy Halladay and A.J. Burnett combined for an incredible 467 innings, while pitching at career-high levels. Those two, along with unheralded youngsters Jesse Litsch, Shaun Marcum, and Dustin McGowan created a formidable staff that lead the American League in Innings Pitched, ERA, FIP, and GB%.

Meanwhile, the Blue Jays had swapped Troy Glaus for Scott Rolen at third base, completing a defense-first infield that included SS Marco Scutaro, 2B Aaron Hill, 1B Lyle Overbay, and utility-man John McDonald. Not even the gradual unraveling of Vernon Wells' career in center field could undermine an outfield defense made great by Alex Rios' incredible range. They easily lead the American League in Dewan's +/- , doubling the total of the next best AL team (Oakland).

In Moneyball, Ricciardi left the Athletics after promising Blue Jays' president Paul Godfrey, "These people are all replaceable by people you've never heard of." He nearly proved himself right. Perhaps even more so than the more successful 2008 Rays, Ricciard's Jays typified a new "Moneyball" that glorified players antithetical to those in Moneyball.

Former A's analyst Eric Walker talked about this shift in an interview with Adam Rubin about Sandy Alderson:

"Moneyball" as the A's practice it now seems to be focused on getting good defensive players -- speedy little guys, really almost a small-ball philosophy in some ways. It certainly isn't the kind of analysis that we were doing when I was there because you can look and see that basically they have a lot of low on-base percentage guys. And it doesn't look to me like they've been all that successful with it. Run prevention is the phrase you hear a great deal these days. And look how well it worked for the Mariners. I mean, the Mariners hired Tom Tango, who is probably the foremost analyst of modern times, and look where it got them. Granted, they had some tough luck in ways. But, still, there's the good-old way in my opinion -- and I think that's what Sandy still believes in, although I haven't talked to him in a long time.

Burn. Or as the kids say, #6org.

For what it's worth, I hope Sandy Alderson does as predicted here and creates a team typical of his Athletics, not today's. After dealing with fielding metrics for over two year and watching their continued study from a distance, I've become, for lack of a better word, a little cynical. I still usually trust UZR over even my own observational opinion of a player's defense. I just wouldn't argue that, say, Adam Dunn=Nyjer Morgan, because one player registered a wonky +30 fielding runs in a single season.

On Base Percentage isn't a market inefficiency anymore, though. Asked at his introductory press conference about the drop in league home runs since his days with the A's, Alderson replied simply, "Just because there's less gold, doesn't make it less valuable." It was a clever response, but skirted the real issue: whether cheaper silver gets the job done just as well.

Sandy Alderson's front office will be challenged by how far they can push classic ideas in a modern setting. Comments like "The infield size doesn't change," talking about Citi's dimensions, suggest a certain pragmatism from Alderson. He alluded to his days in San Diego, where they tucked power away in the Padre's infield, allowing for fielding-first outfielders to cover PETCO's expanses. At least initially, Alderson will need to find a similar balance, seeking an admittedly valuable commodity in a scarce market with few resources.

Ricciardi, though, is more immersed in this new market, familiar with its intricacies. A Special Assistant to the General Manager basically waits for the GM to get an idea and then gives feedback. When Alderson presents an idea to Ricciardi, it will be evaluated with the tendencies of today's GMs and today's trends in mind. And maybe before Alderson completes his vision for the Mets, some slick fielders Ricciardi knows can fill in admirably.

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So basically

JPR is an obnoxious douche, but at least Rios had good range in 2008.

"There’s talent in these here waters. Alderson just has to clear up the algae around the edges." - RJ Anderson / Fangraphs

by Dandy Salderson on Nov 3, 2010 7:39 AM EDT reply actions  

so I don't know if I like Sandy's 1st decision

I don’t care about the Razor Shines thing…I have nothing against him but hey 3rd base coach usually change when a new manager comes in anyway. I think the pitching and hitting coach can be picked by sandy but the other guys should be picked by the manager, teh hitting coach and pitching coach.

Manager chould pick 3rd base coach to be as aggressive as he
Pitching coach should pick the bull pen coach that can best get his philosphy accross in the pen- Can Al Leiter coach
Hitting coach should either be the 1st base coach too, or pick the coach that can best talk with a hitter after he gets on base if the hitting coach is a righty he should bring in a lefty, I just think it works better to have someone from each side

if you need a bench coach or anyone else it is picked by the manager. spring coached should be the best available, if you can get Ozzie Smith to coach Reyes do it, if you can get Greg Maddux to come in and teach fielding to the staff do it, if Rickey can come in for baserunning, and Keioth Hernandez for fielding do it. these type of veteran/retired guys are extremely valuable in my opinion

Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all

by Rickfansince76 on Nov 3, 2010 7:50 AM EDT reply actions  

Um, Razor was the 1B coach this past season.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Chip Hale as Mets 2011 Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Nov 3, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

But he is the third base coach of life...

Which is far more important.

Also, oddly, no one has updated Shines’ Wiki page yet.

It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.

by MookieTheCat on Nov 3, 2010 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll just go ahead and assume that nobody gives a damn about Razor

except for Mrs. Shines. And Jerry Manuel.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!

by Steve Schreiber on Nov 3, 2010 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, I just read the following comment

on an NJ.com article against the Yankees signing Cliff Lee. Allow yourselves to bask in it’s brilliance:

“How does this sound WORLD CHAMPIONS, SAN FRANCISCO GIANTS. OH YEAH The Yankees were the wild card team and made it to the ALCS. Go get Cliff Lee, he was 4-6 with Texas during the regular season. If you are signing him because you can’t beat him, than you are desperate. Time to get young again Yankees.”

Even with those 2 losses his career numbers are 7-2, 2.13 ERA, 0.816 WHIP, a 10/1 K/BB ratio, and 2 HR allowed in 76 innings. There is so much stupid in this comment I cannot even begin to start.

And people wonder why I am filled with hate.

by Five-Tool Tool on Nov 3, 2010 8:32 AM EDT reply actions  

Sounds just like a guy who used to be on my college hockey team

He was a 6-year man…

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Chip Hale as Mets 2011 Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Nov 3, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

6 years in college?

Anyone who pulls that off should automatically get a Rhodes Scholarship. Those guys are the true geniuses.

It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.

by MookieTheCat on Nov 3, 2010 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's a gym teacher or something now.

Poor kids…

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Chip Hale as Mets 2011 Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Nov 3, 2010 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

This just makes me think of Kenny Powers' first day...

“I don’t like you already. If any of you other kids want to pick on someone, go for him. Let’s just say I won’t be looking”

It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.

by MookieTheCat on Nov 3, 2010 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Haha, yes!

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Chip Hale as Mets 2011 Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Nov 3, 2010 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

7 years of college down the drain

The Mets GM is Sandy Alderson: A Dynasty is Born

by Russ on Nov 3, 2010 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

OBP's no longer a market inefficiency

but, then, the Mets aren’t a small-market team who needs to find the cheap inefficiency’s to compete. I’d be perfectly happy if Sandy builds a high-OBP team (partially through the draft and minor league development, and partially through free agency), even if it costs more than the A’s would be able to afford.

I agree with Sam that I’m highly cynical about the current fielding stats and building a team around them (even the Red Sox failed when they tried it this year). I’d much rather go with what’s proven to win, and that’s hitters who get on base and pitchers who keep batters off base (or, pretty much the exact opposite of what the Mets have been the past two years).

2009 Did Not Happen

by cjmulrain on Nov 3, 2010 9:44 AM EDT reply actions  

I'd say injuries were the bigger issue with the Red Sox

I can understand the hesitation to embrace fielding stats, but I wouldn’t cite the Sox as an example of their failure to translate to winning.

by CajoleJuice on Nov 3, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

This

“Red Sox failed because they built their team around defense” is a lazy and incorrect meme. Given the circumstances, I think it’s impressive that they won 89 games in the best division in baseball.

by James Kannengieser on Nov 3, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

meh

the Sox started the season very poorly, before a single major injury set in. Take away those first 26 games and the Sox finish the season ahead of the Yankees. Seems unfair (and lazy?) to blame it on injuries, IMO.

I look around the league, and the teams that are good are the teams that get on base, hit for power, and/or have good pitching. Yes, a run saved is as good as a run earned, but pitchers have a much bigger role in saving runs than any individual position player does, and each position player has a much bigger chance to help score runs than he does to save runs. I just see defense as being highly overrated, especially when we really don’t how accurate the fielding stats really are, and how wildly they can swing from year to year.

2009 Did Not Happen

by cjmulrain on Nov 3, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Any team can go through cold streaks though.

They could have just as easily gone on a 26 game hot streak in July or August had everyone been healthy.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Chip Hale as Mets 2011 Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Nov 3, 2010 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think this point...

Actually agrees with cjmulrain, and his argument that they had a cold streak—for lack of a better term—before injuries set in. As for the defense argument, I think it’s fairly subjective in a few ways. A team loaded with good pitchers is less dependent on stellar defense, as is one that hits a lot. Here’s a question for the gallery: do you think that “building a team around defense” is a better strategy in the NL than in the AL? I have conflicted thoughts on this, given that in the AL you can insert a guy into your lineup who may not own a glove, but it seems that successful NL teams are often more fielding-oriented than AL teams.

It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.

by MookieTheCat on Nov 4, 2010 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think it's almost always a mistake to try to build a team around anything

in particular. On the assumption that you’re an advanced organization with sound evaluation methods, getting the best player you can afford in the context of your budget makes more sense than actively setting out to try to build a fast team, or a high obp team, or what have you. Granted, you need to work in the context of what you have. If you have three groundball pitchers under multiyear contracts, aiming to improve your infield defense is smart, but it’s rare that the market offers you any kind of direct route to a specific type of team.

Putting together a baseball team is like building a city. You’re constantly patching, and patching the patches. A GM is routinely scrambling to fill holes, desperately trying to find ANYbody who has a shot at being as good as replacement level at, say, second base instead of putting someone with an OPS+ of 62 out there. The best laid plans are shot to hell the third day of spring training.

I understand the idea of aiming for solid OF defense in park like Citi, but let’s say you can sign one of two FAs for LF, a 3 win player with good D, or a slowmoving 4 win slugger; they’re both projectable for those numbers for the next three years, and either can be had for 3/30. Why would anyone choose the better defender, simply in order to have better outfield defense? The slugger is the more valuable player.

by Jack Str on Nov 4, 2010 7:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

after Ellsbury was hurt...

like I said, seems wrong to blame it on injuries, or at least solely on injuries

2009 Did Not Happen

by cjmulrain on Nov 4, 2010 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

5-Tool/ 8+ WAR players

Get one at each position. Problem solved.

The Mets GM is Sandy Alderson: A Dynasty is Born
R.A. Dickey for Governor!

by Russ on Nov 3, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Works for me.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 3, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

how in the world did the red sox fail

scutaro and beltre put up amazing seasons, they “failed” because they lost an MVP candidate and Ellsbury. And they failed by winning 89 games.

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)

by Gina on Nov 3, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

wait what?

Scutaro was worth 2.2 wins. I don’t know how that qualifies as an “amazing” season. And Beltre was fantastic at the plate, with a 141 OPS+. The Sox were 5 games out when Youk went down, and finished 7 games out, and I’d argue it was losing his 157 OPS+ bat, not his glove that cost them those extra two wins.

And with the Sox, the failure was contextual – first, I’d argue that they won those 89 games because despite focusing on defense last offseason, they still had a pretty damn good offense (far, far better than other teams who have focused on defense have been able to put together). Second, for the Red Sox, I’d say 89 wins IS a failure – it was only the second time in the Epstein era that they failed to win 95 games and make the playoffs.

I’m not saying defense isn’t important – if you gave me the choice between Carlos Beltran and Adam Dunn in the outfield, I’d take Beltran every time. But it’s less important than offense – an individual player can influence a game with his bat more than his glove, and the pitcher is still the primary “defensive” player – and even if it WAS as important as hitting, I don’t trust the fielding stats nearly as much as I trust the hitting stats. If you gave me the choice between Adam Dunn at first and Ike Davis at first, I’d take Dunn every time.

2009 Did Not Happen

by cjmulrain on Nov 3, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, both fWAR and rWAR agree with you for 2010

Mostly because the advanced fielding metrics don’t see Dunn as totally awful at 1B (I’ve heard this from a Nationals fan, too). His UZR ratings in the OF leading up to this year were legendary.

by CajoleJuice on Nov 3, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

I would argue that they didn't fail

in that Epstein said about a thousand times that 2010 was a bridge year for them, which was the main reason why they concentrated on defense – not because they thought they would win the World Series by defending better than anyone else, but because it was what they could get and it would win 90-ish games. Which it did (and they arguably would have done better, if not for injuries to Youkilis, Pedroia, Ellsbury, etc. and pretty bad years from Beckett and John Fucking Lackey).

Thus Spoke Keith Hernandez

"The lesson behind Moneyball is that if you are clever in your use of resources, you can gain power beyond your station. It is not, never has been, and never will be, that 'computer models' should take over the world." - Graham

by Thomas Wachtel on Nov 3, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

ok that's fair

maybe “failed” was the wrong term, but I don’t think it helps the cause of the people who want to build teams around defense any.

I actually think defense has become overvalued, in fact – when nobody but the Nationals is willing to sign Adam Dunn, something has gone wrong.

2009 Did Not Happen

by cjmulrain on Nov 3, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

well that wasn't just because of defense

it was because of a market crash, his demands, compared to what others on the market got 20/2 was a pretty huge contract, and the fact he has “old player skills”. Which usually fall off a cliff rapidly in a players early 30s.

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)

by Gina on Nov 3, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

A bridge year? To what?

Their payroll was $168 million. They boosted payroll by more than $45 million. It’s not like they were passing time on their way to picking up some REAL players in the upcoming offseason. At any rate the Red Sox had a year that was fairly close to the Mets’ 2009, but because the Red Sox are a smart organization bright enough to have on hand or find “filler” that put up OPS+’s of 90 and 100, they won 19 more games than a very comparable Mets roster did. No other team, suffering the injuries the Red Sox dealt with, would have made the playoffs, and only the Rays or Yankees would have won as many as 85 games.

by Jack Str on Nov 4, 2010 7:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

here's where I see market inefficiencies applying to the Mets

The Mets are a big market team, but much of their budget for 2011 is already spent. Alderson will have limited fuds with which to improve the team in his first offseason. His mission will be to extract the most value out of the remaining dollars to field a competetive team in 2011 while keeping an eye towards the future. Perhaps the current market inefficiency was exposed in the World Series – relatively inexpensive ragtag veteran players who can give you average to slightly above average performance for one year. The Freddy Sanchez, Aubrey Huffs and Juan Uribes of the world. Or it might be something else – Alderson, Ricciardi, et al are being paid a lot of money to figure those things out. But if the Giants can win a World Series with expensive mistakes on the payroll, the Mets can at least have a fighting chance next year with a couple of smart acquisitions.

by xnumberoneson on Nov 3, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

You have to consider context, though

The Giants have a better chance of making the playoffs because their division is easier. The Dodgers are a mess with the owner’s divorce, the Padres played well over their heads and the Rockies are a good, but not great team. The Mets have to compete with the Phillies, who have a strong core both at the plate and on the mound, the Braves, who have a great pipeline of young players coming up, an improving Nationals team, and a decent Marlins team.

Of course, once you make the playoffs it is a crapshoot. But you have to get there first.

by Jeffrey Paternostro on Nov 3, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

eh I'm not convinced the Braves and Rockies are that far apart

plus the Phillies get the benefit for competing with us. I think you’re comparing the wrong teams in this analogy. We’re not the Giants, we’re the Dodgers, the Phillies are the Giants.

mediocrity thy name is Wilpon- jdon (and Billy King-Paul G B)

by Gina on Nov 3, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Giants could easily win 80 games next year

Their pitching was absolutely insane (and probably unrepeatdely good) after September 1st. And I don’t know where they are going to get runs from next year with everyone a year older. Unless Brandon Belt is suddenly major league ready. That said, their pitching will always keep them in games

The Phillies top 3 pitchers are objectively better than the Giants. And they can score runs. They were probably the best team in the NL this year even factoring in the injury issues.

The Braves/Rockies comparison is fair, as the Rox were done in some by injuries and some really ponderous managing decisions down the stretch. I do think the Braves are deeper when healthy, though.

by Jeffrey Paternostro on Nov 3, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

objectively better?

Lincecum has been better than Halladay 2 out of the past 3 years, and is almost a decade younger. Cain has been pretty comparable to Oswalt the past 3 years, and is almost a decade younger. Hamels has been better than Sanchez, but they were actually fairly similar this season and are about the same age. And Bumgarner is better than Blanton or whoever else the Phillies use.

2009 Did Not Happen

by cjmulrain on Nov 3, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

even barry zito didn't suck

they just need to hit enough.

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Nov 3, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is exactly right...

I think there’s a persistent thought that what worked in the 80s or 90s will still work today. Alderson’s true value is his willingness to challenge prevailing norms to find inefficiencies, and to use his context as a guiding factor in the process.

It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.

by MookieTheCat on Nov 3, 2010 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

to the extent we are talking building a team around a one year sample of today’s fielding stats. Too volatile for that. Like sam said, one year of 30 UZR did not make Nyjer=Dunn.

One thing JP does bring is the pimp quotient, according to orlando Hudson’s assessment of his style of dress.

by wobatus on Nov 4, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

He looks a lot like Michael Imperioli

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 3, 2010 12:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Is anyone else perplexed by the gold comment?

There being less is exactly why gold is more valuable than other metals.

It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.

by MookieTheCat on Nov 3, 2010 8:43 PM EDT reply actions  

If the supply would decrease

The price would decrease (it would move the supply demand curve). Kind of like how oil ran up after the Iraq war, out of fear of diminishing supply.

"There’s talent in these here waters. Alderson just has to clear up the algae around the edges." - RJ Anderson / Fangraphs

by Dandy Salderson on Nov 3, 2010 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

*increase. Price would increase.

Had me a Jeff Wilpon moment there.

"There’s talent in these here waters. Alderson just has to clear up the algae around the edges." - RJ Anderson / Fangraphs

by Dandy Salderson on Nov 3, 2010 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

In his defense, he didn't say "if there is less gold, it'll be less valuable".

“Just because there’s less gold, doesn’t make it less valuable.” With an hypothetical decrease in supply, you need to check at the same time what is happening with the demand for that product. If the demand is reduced by the same proportion, you could have the same price, but less quantum being traded. Considering you just have that piece of information “less gold”, we shouldn’t make assumptions and we can say it doesn’t make it less valuable. A somewhat controversial line of though says that supply actually precedes the demand. So if the supply decreases, the demand will reduce too. So, at the very least, it’ll keep the same value.

Since Alderson trades gold and monopolizes 95% of its production, he has expertise, inside information and market power to make those claims.

by Michkin on Nov 3, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

The funny thing about gold/diamonds etc....

Is that these theories could actually be tested. Just open up the vaults in South Africa and Russia and see what happens.

It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.

by MookieTheCat on Nov 3, 2010 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

value is in the eye of the beholder...

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Nov 4, 2010 10:31 AM EDT reply actions  

Subjectivsm is subjective.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
In lobby for Chip Hale as Mets 2011 Manager.

by Ogre39666 on Nov 4, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Only if that's your opinion

The Mets GM is Sandy Alderson: A Dynasty is Born

by Russ on Nov 4, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

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Whats to be done with the 'Pen?
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What about Oswalt?
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This Week in Mets' Overreaction

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THE BIG GUY

Aa_avatar_small Eric Simon

THE INCREDIBLES

Blackfish2_small Alex Nelson

Endy_small Rob Castellano

Img_1262_small Matthew Artus

Kanye_pekka_small Sam Page

Best_infield_ever_small James Kannengieser

Metsstitches_small Eno Sarris

48900_1085732804_4466_n_small Chris McShane

Lg_rocker_ap_small Matthew Callan

Billy_and_daddy_4th_of_july_small Bill Petti

THE NEWS GURUS

Mrmet_small Steve Schreiber

3_small Stephen Schmidt

159714144_040c6c1501_small Pack Bringley

124967042_crop_340x234_small Jeffrey Paternostro