WAR on Sportscenter
Sportscenter just used WAR to compare Tulowitzki to Hanley and Jeter. I think this is kind of a big deal.
over 1 year ago
Joamiq
34 comments
0 recs |
Email
PrintComments
Was it 'used'/mentioned in a good manner?
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 30, 2010 1:56 PM EST reply actions
Pretty much
They did a good job giving a quick explanation of what it is and used it in the graphic in the link to show that he’s been worth more than Hanley or Jeter the past two years.
I think Murdertron makes a good point though.
Awesome
A big part of making advanced stats ‘mainstream’ like that is getting everyone understanding just what the number is, and what it represents, and so on. Calculating it, that can come later, if ever (that’s what Fangraphs and BB-Ref are for!).
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 30, 2010 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
I predicted it.
WAR is now to be considered useless, and anyone using an argument including WAR shall be shouted down, and preferably called an idiot.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
Was the adjective 'new-fangled' used at all?
"It’s like being in love with an alcoholic. It’s like, you constantly defend her, and people are like, ‘Dude, your alcoholic friend is a mess,’ and you’re like, ‘Nah, you don’t know her like I do."- Jim Breuer
I've actually seen it once or twice before fairly recently
i was rather taken aback.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Nov 30, 2010 2:51 PM EST reply actions
yeah that might have been where I saw it
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
Yea
But is it fWAR or rWAR?
(Answer: It’s rWAR).
by Eric Simon on Nov 30, 2010 3:20 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
RWAR?
That’s a lion noise silly.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Nov 30, 2010 9:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Who went to war?
Are those dang colonists back at it with the British?
Trying to believe is my full-time occupation.
I am amazed that they signed him 3 years before they had to
they really could end up making a big mistake. I think the guy is great but wow 2020 will he be any good? that is tough, I will be curious to see what type of year he has in 2013 or 14 when they could have waited until
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
I think Tulo's definitely the type of player you lock up
if you’re the Rockies. The only issue with him is that he’s been a little injury prone in his first few seasons although his injury in 2010 was a freak injury (getting hit in the wrist with a pitch). If he stays healthy, he’s going to put up some numbers and be the face of that team for years.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Dec 1, 2010 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
He's only played more than 122 games twice in his career.
This is a foolish signing by Colarado. The one thing you don’t do is give massive amounts of money extending a non superstar into his mid-thirties when he’s essentially demonstrated he’s not durable.
This, and giving 3/32 to de la Rosa, who’s also not durable—only one season with more than 130 innings pitched—must have something to do with the air up there. Bill James wrote a great essay a while back on how well-run teams adeptly get the heart of players’ careers while poorly run teams too often ignore a century of experience, sign players to contracts that will take them well past their primes, and end up swallowing the bitter rinds of those careers.
Non superstar?
I’ll give you the durability concerns but he just put up a 6.4 WAR season despite <600 PA’s (5.7 WAR the year before in 628 PA’s).
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Non superstars put up 6.4 WAR seasons all the time.
So… I’m not following. I’m guessing you put a lot more stock in Tulip’s fielding numbers than I do. I regress them more. I also don’t think a handful of very good seasons make a player a superstar. ARod had a couple of seasons approaching 10 wins when he was younger than Tulip, with around 28 wins in his first four full seasons. Triple T has around 17 in that time span.
even if you regress then more
if you do that to every player evenly he’d still come out a superstar. He’s been worth more wins with his bat than any short stop not named Hanley Ramirez the last 3 years even with injuries (using counting stats so he’s getting docked for injuries and even when you look at home/away splits). So I don’t see how more or less stock in defense makes any difference.
Official Member of The Ancient Mystic Society of No Melo
Official Member of the "DO NOT TRADE DERRICK FAVORS" Movement
2010-2011 New Jersey Nets motto: Try Again. Fail Again. Fail Better.
Santonio Holmes: you don't need open field moves when you've got getting away from the cops speed.
If you think Twoley is a superstar then you think there are 50
superstars in the game. You can think that if you want, of course, but I think that’s 5 to 10 times too many.
that's only if you don't consider position averages
I would only think there were 50 superstars if I thought corner outfielders and first basemen who hit like that were all superstars. Which I don’t.
Official Member of The Ancient Mystic Society of No Melo
Official Member of the "DO NOT TRADE DERRICK FAVORS" Movement
2010-2011 New Jersey Nets motto: Try Again. Fail Again. Fail Better.
Santonio Holmes: you don't need open field moves when you've got getting away from the cops speed.
I think your words belie your true feelings here
You’ve such an impressive number of affectionate nicknames for him, he’s clearly your boy.
I haven't even gotten around to "Tripowitz"
or “The Tripster”.
You don't think he's a great defender?
You’re in the vast minority then. But even so, like Gina says, he’s been the 2nd best SS with his bat over the last 3 years.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Having seen a fair number of colorado games, I can tell you Tulo has great range and a ridiculously good arm
which agrees well with the fielding metrics. I definitely wouldn’t call his fielding into question. The durability issue is really the only knock anyone can have on this contract.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 2, 2010 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
I'd say durability is a pretty big knock
but on the other hand I’m pretty sure colorado is probably taking non on field related value into account, the value of a homegrown player especially in a “smaller” market like Denver is pretty enormous.
Official Member of The Ancient Mystic Society of No Melo
Official Member of the "DO NOT TRADE DERRICK FAVORS" Movement
2010-2011 New Jersey Nets motto: Try Again. Fail Again. Fail Better.
Santonio Holmes: you don't need open field moves when you've got getting away from the cops speed.
And even the durability issue isn't huge...
He had two seasons where he missed time (2008 and 2010). In 08 he had two injuries…a torn quadricep tendon during a game was the first and the second was a gash he received on his hand from slamming a bat on the ground. The bat shattered and cut him badly. In 2010, he was injured after he got hit in the wrist by a pitch.
So 2 of those 3 injuries were freak injuries. Only one (the quad tendon tear) is an actual playing injury and according to his wiki page, it says that he injured it in a game that he wasn’t supposed to be playing in (he originally got the day off but was put into the lineup at the last second due to another player’s injury). If you just look at “games” then sure, you could make a case he’s injury prone but really…you can’t say that he is.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
by Steve Schreiber on Dec 2, 2010 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
People do this all the time. 'This injury wasn't real, or it wasn't as meaningful
as another kind of injury.’ The plain fact is that the Rockies just inked a guy to a huge contract lasting a decade who has not been durable. He’s played more than 122 games all of twice. Do you think he doesn’t project to play in fewer games for some reason?
We could have said the same about F-Mart, that his injuries were unrelated, unlikely to be repeated. And yet, he’s fragile. TTT missed 20 games his senior year in college with some arm problem. He’s injury prone.
What’s extraordinary to me is how obviously bad a deal this is. The Rockies already had their homegrown star locked up for another four years. Do they really think once he gets into his thirties that he’ll be able to command a salary significantly greater than 6/120? He’s a SS. I’m pretty sure Hanley Ramirez has the highest AAV of any SS, at 14m. How is blowing that up, by 33%, a good idea? And where’s the risk that Tulo is assuming here? Why isn’t clear that in a deal where the team is assuming just about all the risk is an extremely foolish idea? Shortstops as a group age poorly. This isn’t quite as bad as flushing money down the toilet, but it’s holding money over the toilet by two fingers, closing your eyes, and jumping up and down vigorously.
After the 2008 season Jose Reyes was a little younger and a little better than TTT. Imagine how extending Reyes in the 2008-2009 offseason, from 2012 through 2017 for $114 million, would look right now.
Another way to look at it is, what percentage of Tulo’s salary would you pay to insure his continued performance, and improved durability? 50%? Given how many things can go wrong, that seems reasonable. If so, you’re paying 6/171 to insure his current performance continues, from 2012 through 2017. That’s way, way too much.
Enormous? I'd say a couple of million, maybe.
Think of Reyes. If the Mets replaced Reyes with a comparable SS next year, are they really going to lose much money? Any money?
As for being the best hitter at his position, that doesn’t have anything to do with “superstardom”. In fact, MOST of the players in MLB history who have been the best hitters at their positions aren’t considered superstars, or even particularly close to being superstars.
You just may have a much broader definition than I do. Do you consider Carl Crawford a superstar?
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Amazin' Avenue
Related FanShots on Amazin' Avenue
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Recent FanShots
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
