Non Tendered Casualties Applesauce - Maine, Carter, Green leave Mets, K-Rod avoids jail,Tak an Angel
by Joe Budd on Dec 3, 2010 8:08 AM EST
in Applesauce
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PrintMeet the Mets
The contract tender deadline came and went last night and claimed several Met players as victims. To no one's surprise, John Maine will not be a Met next year. Slightly more surprising, however, is the news that Chris Carter and Sean Green are joining him. Metstradamus points out how damning this is for Minaya's handling of the Billy Wagner situation.
With the latest round of salary trimming, the Mets have managed to save over $11 million in payroll from last year. Mack, however, thinks that the new front office's lack of results is an inauspicious sign. I would suggest Mack read this Ken Davidoff post before getting too worked up over the absence of any major signings.
Francisco Rodriguez is planning to enter a plea deal that will keep him out of jail. Maybe this will make him tradeable to someone like the White Sox.
Hisanori Takahashi is going to Anaheim for two years.
Justin Turner is enjoying his time in winter ball so far. If you can't get enough Justin Turner news here, be sure to check out his blog.
Around MLB
Some interesting moves to pass along. Adam Dunn signs on with the White Sox for four years/$56 million.
Atlanta has cut Matt Diaz but is bringing back Eric Hinske.
The Dodgers non-tendered Russell Martin and are probably replacing him with Rod Barajas.
Mariano Rivera is going to sign a two year/$30 million deal with the Yankees.
Oakland has jumped to the front of the pack of teams chasing third baseman Adrian Beltre.
Darryl Strawberry thinks that the Yankees are going against George Steinbrenner's wishes in how they're treating Derek Jeter. I wonder how long that George's ghost will haunt every personnel decision.
Beyond the Box Score has two neat posts worth your time. First is part two of their interview with ESPN's Mark Simon in which he talks about the changing attitude towards advanced statistics at ESPN. Second is a look at this offseason's arbitration process, pointing out that Tampa is likely to gain nine draft picks.
And, finally, Crashburn Alley has some fun with David Caruso.
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"Mack, however, thinks that the new front office's lack of results is an inauspicious sign."
Ridiculous statement. The offseason has barely even begun and people are condemning the FO already! For doing what we all expected them to do anyway!
I think next weeks meetings are the turning point
having to hire a GM and then Manager were the 1st portion of the off season. now these guys are probably looking at the league and deciding what they want to do at the meetings next week. Go in with a plan, and try to make some deals and sign some guys.
I think whenyou first take a new job, there has to be a settling time, you have to come in and get to know the owners, the new manager that you picked. Now its time to start to act. If we come away from the meetings with nothing happening i will be surprised, they will come away putting their stamp on the team
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
by Rickfansince76 on Dec 3, 2010 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
for real
i mean we expected to have 5million now we have 11million i mean thats just peachy alil more wiggle room if you ask me
Gang green nation!
we won the f*#&ing game now lets go get a goddamn snack!
I think fans just have to be more patient
Even with that extra wiggle room, we’re going to be signing cheaper, more risky players. The team needs time to do their due diligence. Just remember the Putz deal, which was a quick knee-jerk move where the Mets didnt even do a proper medical check.
I say let’s withhold judgement until we see what the team looks like on Opening Day.
"I say let’s withhold judgement until we see what the team looks like on Opening Day"
of 2012
2009 Did Not Happen
If I'm not mistaken ...
If “Moneyball” is an accurate description of the way Alderson works, he divides the season into two halves. You play till the allstar break with the best team you can afford, and always making sure you have some money on the side. You try to remain in the hunt (~5 or so games back) then with your mini-warchest, you try to wheel and deal to make up the missing parts to get you over the hump and into the playoffs. Due to Minaya’s crap contracts, we’re being operated like a small market team this year. In a way its nice to have the small market team experts on hand …
This is a very different situation, though.
The Mets weaknesses are abundantly clear. All they accomplish by waiting until the all-star break to get the best starter they can, for instance, is frittering away half a season’s worth of starts.
Tampa gaining 9 picks is obscene
Their farm system is going to be ridiculous.
"The Mets are gonna be amazing" - Casey Stengel
And the Red Sox and Blue Jays gain 5 picks each
Nelson to Yankees: “Ha Ha!”
"It’s not just about money, it’s how you spend it."
-- Sandy Alderson
as if they weren't rich enough already too bad our system isn't like that
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Dec 3, 2010 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
NON-TENDER LIST
Just looked over the non-tender list. Any opinions on Aybar, Ingelett, or Hairston for a utility role? How about Paulino or Nieves to share catching duties? Peralta, Delcarmen, Ray, or Veras for 7th/ 8th inning duties?
I like Aybar a lot (that's why he's in my AAOP)
He’ll give you what Hudson would but for about $3M – $4M less (and he can play all over the IF).
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Tak2, 2 years, $5.5 mil total
Nice signing for the Angels. Would’ve loved him back at that price. Okay I’m over it, moving on.
by James Kannengieser on Dec 3, 2010 9:25 AM EST reply actions
no we couldn't thanks to you know whom...
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Dec 3, 2010 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
"Non-tendered"
Just want to give my congrats to the language of baseball for making a passive non-act a brutally active verb. It works.
Martin and Thole platoon?
Not sure how much of a mentor he can be as a 27 year old but I’m also not sure how much that matters either
Not sure we would sign Martin
But I would have no complaints with a Martin/Thole platoon the next few years.
add to that ...
… a Turner / Murphy Rightie – Leftie platoon and we’re in business …
Same here
I don’t think that Martin is going to come too cheaply, and the Mets really have better places to allocate their funds.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 3, 2010 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
If you give a rats' about Jayson Stark
and his [and others’] “offseason winners and losers” BS, you might be a smidge disapointed in our front office. I assume most AA denizens don’t get too worked up over that sort of thing. We probably ought to have low expectations for the “Bridge Year” Mets, but we’ll still be watching Wright and (probably) Reyes, Ike, Niese, DICKEY. . . . Well, I can stop there, can’t I? This season can be about watching them, or waiting to remove the feeding tube from Ollie and Castillo. I CHOOSE (A) (and to make fun of (B)).
Jason Who?
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Dec 3, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
Would anyone here have offered Dunn 4/$56?
I wouldn’t.
Maybe
$4m/56 years….. nah, I like Big Donkey, he’s great and I’m glad he’s (belatedly) getting the recognition he deserves BUT I do agree it’s an overpay.
FWIW
They’re extatic over at South Side Sox and seem like a smart group of folk. A big lefty bat is just what they needed, and if Pulie cones back they’re quite a lineup and Dunn can DH.
by Pack Bringley on Dec 3, 2010 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
Considering that
Ozzie Guillen had Omar Visqel DH’ing, I’d be doing cartwheels if I were them.
What's that about?
no way
I wouldn’t offer past a 2 year deal with maybe a team option
Official Member of The Ancient Mystic Society of No Melo
Official Member of the "DO NOT TRADE DERRICK FAVORS" Movement
2010-2011 New Jersey Nets motto: Try Again. Fail Again. Fail Better.
Santonio Holmes: you don't need open field moves when you've got getting away from the cops speed.
why so low...dunn has the two skills that take the longest to decline...power and a good eye.
by Mike Clemente on Dec 3, 2010 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
.
To be clear, there’s nothing wrong with a player who has old player skills—you can be a great offensive player with lots of homers, walks and strikeouts. Like Adam Dunn. The problem is that young hitters who display only old player skills tend to age really badly.
A hitter with young player skills might lose speed as he gets older, but he can compensate for that physical decline by learning better pitch recognition and strike zone discipline. In other words, as their young player skills erode, they replace them with the development of old player skills.
this is the first link that came up on a quick search but it was a topic that was discussed a lot, with a lot of other evidence and similar player profiles and research, back when Cincy and AZ didn’t choose to extend him in 08 and no one wanted to offer him a 4 year contract. Based on similar player profiles he was expected to have 2-3 more really good years and then fall off a cliff (back in 08.
Official Member of The Ancient Mystic Society of No Melo
Official Member of the "DO NOT TRADE DERRICK FAVORS" Movement
2010-2011 New Jersey Nets motto: Try Again. Fail Again. Fail Better.
Santonio Holmes: you don't need open field moves when you've got getting away from the cops speed.
dunn's not a young player though
he’ll age much like Thome did…posting sick ISO’s for many years to come
by Mike Clemente on Dec 3, 2010 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
also, it seems a lot of the evidence their using is pre/post steroid drop-offs
all that data needs to definitely be tossed right out.
by Mike Clemente on Dec 3, 2010 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
he was a young player at one point
and similar players usually age badly which is the point. Also Thome and Dunn really don’t have that much in common oddly enough. Plus Thome is probably more of an extreme case example considering he’s been around for 100 years and most players don’t last 20 years.
Official Member of The Ancient Mystic Society of No Melo
Official Member of the "DO NOT TRADE DERRICK FAVORS" Movement
2010-2011 New Jersey Nets motto: Try Again. Fail Again. Fail Better.
Santonio Holmes: you don't need open field moves when you've got getting away from the cops speed.
I'd give him a blank check
And re-name the right-center field bridge ‘Dunn Bridge’
by James Kannengieser on Dec 3, 2010 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
He'll probably be the best DH in the AL the next few seasons
For us, no, but for a team with a need at DH, I don’t think it’s a terrible deal.
Take care, Animal
You were fun to watch, and I bet you can be a serviceable DH for some American League team with a short rf porch.
I like the idea of Martin
He can’t really be washed up at 27, can he? His line drive rate was actually higher in 2009 and 2010 than in any of his three preceding years, but his BABIP was lower in 2009 and 2010 than any of the three preceding years, so it seems like maybe there was some bad luck involved. The lack of power is worrisome, but even bearing that in mind he was still about a 2-WAR player this season.
Plus he’s Canadian, and you can’t have too many Canadians on your team.
What about their flappy little mouths?
I’m always concerned. . . .
Injury concern
Look at Jason Bay- if his head wasn’t obviously lacking the structural support that non-Canadian heads have, he wouldn’t of gotten a concussion.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 3, 2010 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Great point!
I’m surprised it didn’t go flying into the stands.
Also, the beady little eyes damage pitch recognition . . . leading me to believe that Justin Morneau and Joey Votto were adopted.
by tmu on Dec 3, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
Morneau has gone on record saying that he's not into hockey.
He’s definitely adopted.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Speaking of Minaya moves, Ryan Church & Thrilledge are FAs
I’m not getting Mack’s logic here. Making moves just for the hell of it doesn’t make sense. I’d rather Saberus take their time when deciding what moves to make. I’d love to see Russell Martin brought in to form a platoon tandem with Thole. And in regards to Jeter, I find it very annoying that people think he’s being disrespected by an offer that’ll keep him as the highest-paid SS. Yes he has value in other areas(how much I don’t know & I don’t think those guessing a specific figure know either), but to think he deserves $20+ million because he has an Edge with a panoramic roof is silly. And speaking of Steinbrenner, didn’t he treat Berra like crap when he fired him as manager?
What's that about?
It's clear to me, we will purging, not binging
1. The Braves got Dan Uggla for a song and a dance. We never got involved.
2. We let lefthanded starter/reliever Tak2, who signed but a 2-year deal for $5.5 million, go even though we lost Johan to injury and have no other lefties in the BP.
3. We’re looking at “Kelvim Escobar, Part Deux” this year as the Mets scour baseball to sign the Jeff Francises and Chris Youngs of the world. Maybe we’ll catch lighting in a bottle or maybe we’ll get this year’s Kelvim Escobar.
This is just the way it’s going to go for the next two years as this new FO purges the deadwood from the organization and starts a-fresh. Alderson is both disciplined and patient …. not necessarily what us Mets fans want to hear right now, but ultimately, it may be what’s best for the organization.
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
"Who has more fun than people?"
- Ralph Kiner
The purge will last 1 year, not 2.
All the big contracts, minus Santana, Bay will be over. The only big contracts I expect for exsisting Mets is Wright after 2011. And Reyes, depending how he does this year. So 2 years of purging is a bit much. We are stuck with Bay and Santana, theres no way we move either one.
by SFloridaMetsFan on Dec 3, 2010 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Having Santana is not the worst thing in the world
Of course he actually has to stay healthy, but how likely is it that Mets will get five starting pitchers, who are better than Johan, before his contract expires?
"The Mets are gonna be amazing" - Casey Stengel
I'm not saying that. I was answering The Glider about a 2 year purge.
I’m saying after 2011, the only big contracts are Bay, Santana, and possibly Reyes and Wright. We arent purging them( i dont think). There is a zero chance we get five pitchers better than Santana. My hope is we get 1, maybe 2?
by SFloridaMetsFan on Dec 3, 2010 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
The purge (or at least the lack of binge)
is hardly a secret. I think in this day and age, most fans are savvy enough to be patient, especially after seeing the alternative repeatedly blow up in the Mets’ faces.
I think most fans would rather deal with an honest rebuilding effort
than to listen to B.S. about how great it is that the Mets just grossly overpaid for a free agent.
"The Mets are gonna be amazing" - Casey Stengel
Yeah, I'm ok with it, I guess.
It’s just that after all the pain we’ve been through, now we have to start all over again.
While the purging may only be for the coming year, I don’t see us binging a lot after that. Jon Heyman was saying that he doesn’t see the Mets being a $150-160 million/year team. He sees us staying around the $120 M mark.
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
"Who has more fun than people?"
- Ralph Kiner
Maybe that's the plan now
maybe not. Who knows? (Certainly not Heyman.) But a well run team will not be prevented from winning by being de facto capped at $120MM. Is it going to take time? Yes. But in the past, at a mere whiff of success, the Mets went all in and mortgaged the future to provide that extra option year, etc., that they needed to bring in “the last pieces.” I, for one, will be overjoyed to see a bit more patience. And it will pay off in a more “homegrown” and younger team — which is usually more excitign to watch, anyway.
Which is ...
around 90 million more than the Padres spent last year and they were 2 games back from winning the Western division (and 1 gb in the wild card). Alderson/DePo have proven that their methods work on a shoestring. Lets see what happens next year when the payroll dips to 70M and they get 60-70M of play money.
Will be immensely happy if Krod is moved to White Sox
even if we have to eat some salary, which we probably do.
And who closes next year?
Not that I like K-Rod, but as long as we manage the finishes and dont let his option vest, he’s the best we have. Plus, theres no one out there thats anywhwere near him talent-wise.
by SFloridaMetsFan on Dec 3, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
Don't really care
Very overrated (read: overvalued) “position.” It’s a luxury we really ought not worry about until we have a team that provides leads to close. Our bullpen will have a bit of a chewing gum and duct tape aspect to it, but that’s part of the austerity program for ’11.
by tmu on Dec 3, 2010 12:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
WHITE SOX
There was talk on here last month about Beltran for Beckham. Expand the deal with K-Rod & perhaps Quentin? As for a closer, it looks like the Mets will go with a cheaper option if K-Rod is dealt. Chris Ray & George Sherill both closed for the O’s at various times. Is it worth a shot to sign both & compete with Parnell for closer?
If I'm not mistaken ...
Alderson/Beane/DePo view the closer as a player you find off some scrap heap or develop and then sell. Its a moneymaking position, not something you actively go out and spend tons of cash on.
The Beane Scam
Find a solid but unspectacular reliever, get him some saves, then flip him to a team in need of a true closer.
by James Kannengieser on Dec 3, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
I'm curious...what is that uniform picture of?
the o’ pinstripes!
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
old pinstripes are the best
the cream fake old school pinstripe uni they unvieled this season eventually grew on me.
but oh….to bring back the bright whites with the blue pinstripe on a permanent basis would be glorious.
bonus man crush on sandy if he can bring back these babies
.JPG)
I hate Philadelphia so much.
Not much left to the imagination there, huh?
I bet most female Met fans agree with this plan.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Dec 3, 2010 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
I was rooting for jail time
Bummer man
When R.A. Dickey was asked Wednesday if he had an opinion on some teammates not going, he said, "I do have thoughts on that. I don’t want to make them public." He said he had not talked to any of the players who did not attend, but noted that he found the experience worthwhile.
"To be able to look a guy in the eye who doesn’t have arms or legs and say, ‘Thank you,’ that’s a big deal," Dickey said. "I take it personally."
me too, but as a "celebrity athlete" you know he was going to get off.
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Dec 4, 2010 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
He is a clown
When R.A. Dickey was asked Wednesday if he had an opinion on some teammates not going, he said, "I do have thoughts on that. I don’t want to make them public." He said he had not talked to any of the players who did not attend, but noted that he found the experience worthwhile.
"To be able to look a guy in the eye who doesn’t have arms or legs and say, ‘Thank you,’ that’s a big deal," Dickey said. "I take it personally."
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