AAOP-Thinking 2011 and beyond
Trades
Carlos Beltran, Luis Castillo, and Oliver Perez to the Cubs for Carlos Zambrano, Kosuke Fukudome, John Grabow, and Marcos Mateo
Classic swap of bad contracts. Zambrano has a no trade clause and says he wants to stay in Chicago. However, a phone call from fellow countryman, Santana, changes his mind. The Cubs get an uncertain commodity in Beltran and dead weight in Castillo and Perez. The money is a wash for the first year. The Mets get a mid-rotation starter in Zambrano, a quality 4th outfielder in Fukudome, and an unproven fireballer in Mateo. The Mets get the better talent in the deal, but are on the hook for the $18 million owed to Zambrano in 2012 (there is also a 2013 $19.25 mil. player option that vests if he finishes in the top five in the Cy Young race).
Mike Pelfrey, Kirk Nieuwenhuis, Mark Cahoon, and Armando Rodriguez to the Orioles for Nick Markakis.
Baltimore envisioned Markakis would become a franchise player and signed him to a long-term contract last year. However, Markakis experienced a drop in offensive production across the board. He is looking less like a marquee player and more like a solid regular. His contract represents fair market value for a big market club, but will soon restrict a cash strapped team like Baltimore. Pelfrey gives them a young pitcher just entering arbitration. Nieuwenhuis, Cahoon, and Rodriguez sweeten the pot.
Bobby Parnell, Lucas Duda, Cory Vaughn, and Robert Carson to the Rays for James Shields
Shields had a difficult year in terms of ERA (5.18), but he continues to eat innings. In addition, he continues to have good K/BB ratio and has relatively inexpensive club options for 2012 and 2013. Parnell gives Tampa Bay a late inning reliever with closer potential. Duda has the potential to contribute immediately with the bat.
Jordanny Valdespin, and Brad Holt for Maicer Izturis
Izturis is a slick fielding utility infielder, whose bat wont kill you should you stick him in the starting lineup. Anaheim gets three interesting, albeit 2nd tier prospects in return. Izturis and Murphy should be allowed to duke it out in spring training to determine the starting second baseman. If Murphy shows he has the defensive chops for the job, Izturis gives you a nice utility man to move around the diamond. In any event, you have a stopgap until Havens or Tejada can emerge.
Signings
Russell Martin, c, for 1 yr. $2.5 mil.
Martin was once one of the best catchers in the game. He was absolutely abused in LA (between 2007-2009 he averaged 143 games behind the dish). Used in tandem with Thole, perhaps he can regain some of his former value.
Chad Qualls, RHP, for 1 yr. $1.5 mil.
Qualls had a terrible year in terms of ERA (7.32!). However, his peripherals remain good. He should bounce back strong. Historically, he’s been a solid late-inning reliever
Tony Gwynn, Jr., OF for 1 yr. $500,000
Tony Gwynn, Jr. is an excellent defensive outfielder. Provided his offensive role is limited, he should be a nice role player.
Spring Training Invitees
Juan Cruz, RHP; George Sherrill, LHP; Taylor Buchholz, RHP; Taylor Tankersley, LHP; g-wang" class="sbn-auto-link">Chien-Ming Wang, RHP; Jeremy Bonderman, RHP; Jeremy Hermida, OF; Gabe Kapler, OF; Bobby Crosby, SS; Matt Treanor, C
Mets bullpen should be a wide open battle in spring training. Cruz, Sherrill, Buchholz and Tankersley should be given an opportunity to win jobs. Wang and Bonderman should be brought in to compete with Gee and Misch for Santana’s spot in the rotation. Hermida, Kapler, Crosby, and Treanor should be brought in for organizational depth.
Lineup Salary Projected WAR
Jose Reyes,SS $11 3.5
Angel Pagan, CF $3.5 2.5
Nick Markakis , RF $10.25 3.0
David Wright, 3B $14 4.0
Ike Davis, IB $0.4 3.0
Jason Bay, LF $16 2.0
Josh Thole, C $0.4 1.5
Maicer Izturis, 2B $3.1 1.5
Bench
Russell Martin , C $2.5 1.0
David Murphy , 2B, IB, OF $0.4 1.5
Kosuke Fukudome, OF $13.5 1.0
Nick Evans, 1B, OF $0.4 0.5
Tony Gwynn, OF $0.5 1.0
SP
Johan Santana $22.5 1.0
Carlos Zambrano $17.9 3.0
R.A. Dickey $4.0 2.0
Jonathan Niese $0.4 2.0
James Shields $4.25 2.5
Dillon Gee* $0.4 0.5
Bullpen
Francisco Rodriguez $11.5 1.2
Chad Qualls $1.5 0.8
Pat Misch $0.4 0.5
Marcos Mateo $0.4 0.0
John Grabow $4.8 0.0
Mike O’Connor $0.4 0.5
Ryoto Igarashi $1.75 0.0
Summary
With the following moves, the payroll ends up at $146.15 mil. (Using Cot’s Baseball Salary website). Being somewhat conservative with WAR projections, the team projects to win 88 games. The bullpen is suspect, but the entire rotation can eat inning when healthy, mitigating the exposure. With a little luck (a healthy Santana returns early, Markakis or Bay regain former power, either Reyes or Wright regain 2008 form, etc), the team could make the playoffs. Furthermore, aside from the shortstop position, the lineup and starting rotation is basically set for 2012. With over $31 million coming off the books after this year, the team has the resources and flexibility to make any needed adjustments. In addition, the team retains most of its prospects with upside (e.g. Mejia, Flores, Harvey, F-Mart, Havens, and Tejada).
This FanPost was contributed by a member of the community and was not subject to any vetting or approval process. It does not necessarily reflect the opinions, reasoning skills, or attention to grammar and usage rules held by the editors of this site.
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Don't see much incentive here for the Cubs
or the Mets in the Orioles trade, I’m also staunchly against trading Parnell.
I like Markakis but
with all of the holes in the rotation, I can’t see dealing Pelfrey right now. Maybe as he gets more expensive in a year or two fine but right now, I think they need him in the rotation more than they need Markakis in RF and I’d honestly rather have Pelf over Zambrano, anyway. That being said, I don’t mind the Cubs deal but I don’t love it. I don’t see Tampa (or anybody for that matter) taking Brad Holt at this point with his struggles and even with Holt, I don’t know if Duda and Parnell would be enough for Shields. And that Maicer Izturis deal is a massive overpay, dealing a potential back of the rotation arm in Cohoon, an interesting 2B prospect in Valdespin and an OF in Vaughn who’s got the chance to be a good big league starter if his performance in Brooklyn translates to the higher levels. To deal all of that for a 30 year old utility guy off of a .684 OPS season is way too much.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
Pelfrey, Duda, Parnell
Are to valuable for our future. I also don’t see the Cubbie trade happening. Nor do I like Markakis very much. I mean he has talent, but I don’t want to take that risk. Per Mistermet on most of his points, but I do like your free agent signings. Martin and Gwynn could be extremely helpful in the next season and maybe in the future. The Qualls signing is risky, but if what you say is true then I’d be okay with it.
I'll be honest,
I don’t think that any of these trades are realistic or beneficial.
Why would the Cubs trade all of that for the guys we are trading them? They’d save some money, yes, and get Beltran plus Castillo (who they may or may not play), and a waste of roster space in Perez.
I wouldn’t necessarily mind Nick Markakis, but that’s giving up a hell of a lot for him.
It’s going to take a hell of a lot more than those three guys to net back James Shields.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 5, 2010 11:24 PM EST reply actions
there are a lot of moving parts
involved in the Cubs trade which would make it difficult to engineer. However, I think I would pull the trigger if I were the Cubs. Zambrano is probably a player with a value of around $8 ml. at this point. If that assumption is accurate, unloading him would save about $10 mil. in 2012. He has clearly worn out his welcome in Chicago with his hostility issues. If anything, the trade may not be beneficial to the Mets. My thinking was that it was beneficial to us just in the sense that we can get some on the field value for the money currently being spent on Ollie and Castillo. I am not very high on Pelfrey. I think his value is about at its peak at this point. GB pitchers with low strikeout numbers tend to see wide fluctuations in performance from year to year. If trading Pelfrey gets you a young player that gives you perennially a WAR between 2.5-6 and is team controlled through 2014, you do it. I agree I might not have given enough for Shields and perhaps too much for Izturis. However, I do think you could structure a deal with the Rays with Parnell and Duda as the key pieces in the deal. Both players fit the Rays needs in coming year. Perhaps add Vaughn and Carson to the Shields deal and transfer a lesser piece like Holt to the Izturis deal makes more sense.
a bit "gut the farm" for my liking
also not sure the Cubs would touch that package given how bad two of the three pieces are
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
They get a lot of long-tern salary relief though.
Thats actually what I don’t like about it from our perspective. Beltran, Castillo, and Ollie all come off the book after this year, why tie us down with Zambrano’s contract?
Save Jenrry Mejia!
I guess it's kinda bad from both ends
hurts them more now, us more later
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 6, 2010 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly.
With so much money coming off the books next year, we can afford to have one remaining bloated contract for next year. If it can get us in contention this year (I project this being about an 88 win team) than it is worth the hit to the budget next year.
im not convinced this gives us a good enough chance to put us over the top
to make up for the fact it kills our giant payroll opening we’ll be seeing next year.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 6, 2010 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
its about a wash
we would give up about $10 mil in budget space next year for what amounts to 2 wins in 2011. If you value a win at $4 mil., we would be overpaying. However, Zambrano is still young and could be positively influenced by Santana. There’s the chance that he could rebound to a 4 win player. However, more than that, I just hate the idea of just cutting the bait with 18 mil.without getting something in return.
Overall, I would only go through with this proposal if it were coupled with a couple of other aggressive moves to improve this year’s squad. If you can improve by additional 5 or 6 wins, you have a playoff contender. To me that’s worth a 2 mil. net overpayment. I
Id rather cut bait with 18 mil
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 6, 2010 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
sorry I'd rather cut bait with 18 mil
than add even more to payroll on players not likely to be worth anything for an extra year. Its hard to just give up on that much money, but right now letting them go for 18 mil is a cheaper option than taking on even more bad contracts and somehow hoping the result is different.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 6, 2010 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
I agree there are a lot of prospects leaving the system, however,
by bringing in team controlled players you are actually buying the farm system time to develop. In a big market, it is very difficult to have prospects learn on the job. It is critical you field a team that is good enough to prevent you from calling up prospects too early, or worse, tempt you to trade high upside talent for veterans that have already maximized their ceilings. At our current position, I am definitely not in favor of trading Flores, Mejia, Harvey, Urbina, and Puello at this point. However, I would trade 2nd tier prospects (even if it dilutes our organizational depth), if doing so can buy us a couple of years of stability at the major league level to allow to totally revamp our minor league system.
Revisiting the Cubs trade proposal, the Cubs would essentially be giving up the 3-4.5 wins provided by Zambrano and Fukudome for about 2.5 wins in Beltran (Ollie, Castillo, and Grabow are all likely below replacement value). So, essentially, the Cubs would be sacrificing .5-2 wins for $10 million dollars in saving next year. If I’m the Cubs I recognize that I probably can’t compete next year anyway, so I;m gonna make that exchange.
Edited trade proposals
After reflecting on the comments, I shuffled the prospects involved in the proposals involving Markakis, Shields, and Izturis.
I don't see any of these deals happening and I am not sold on Izturis
I’d rather have Jeff Keppinger back (he’d come rather cheaply, if you ask me); and Big Z…he is even more of a gamble than Ollie. (did I just write that?)
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
I think Kepp got nontendered by the Stros instead of going into arb
following a 1.15m season. He’s one of those guys who tends to be undervalued, but he’s got a shot at being significantly better than replacement level. If the Mets get anywhere near contending and haven’t done anything to fix the 2B problem I could see paying him as much as 2m.
Yup. You're right.
Looks like they want to keep him only to trade him.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl/astros/notes.htm
Which sort of makes sense, since while he’s no one’s Plan A he’s cheap enough for a guy who can pass for a starter. 2, 4, 6m is typical for so-so guys in their first, second, and third years of arbitration, and if the Mets were close to contending and it was early 2011 and the 2B situation was the same as it is now I could see them giving up a modest prospect in order to get Keppinger.
I can't believe I'm saying this as a Mets fan but...
What would we do with all those options at 2B?
[/mind blown]
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Dec 10, 2010 11:59 PM EST up reply actions
Scatter them by the four winds to other men's AAA teams?
Or… something else?
Krom laughs at the Four Winds.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
by MookieTheCat on Dec 11, 2010 12:44 AM EST up reply actions
Tejada to minors
Murph on the bench
Kepp/Izturis starting
I like Markakis
but I hate Zambrano so unless we were able to get another quality starting pitcher somewhere else I don’t know that I would give up Pelfrey for a struggling Markakis at this point. If it was one-for-one absolutely but no way would Baltimore do that. Swap Pelfrey out for Gee or another prospect not named Mejia and I would definitely love that trade but I don’t know that Baltimore would. Markakis is like their Wright they love the guy to almost irrational levels down there.

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