Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Randy Moss A Raven?

The Firstbase Situation

After signing Mike Jacobs to a minor-league contract, the Mets will enter Spring Training with 5 firstbaseman, who, if not exactly in a competition, all have some shot at the major league roster. Stepping back first, though, signing Mike Jacobs makes no sense. There is no team in the major leagues that Mike Jacobs improves by being on the active roster. In the best case scenario, Jacobs comes off the bench and hits an unusual number of homeruns in an extremely small sample size, a la his 11 homeruns in 30 games in 2005. Even then, the value he bleeds whenever playing a few innings in the field, coupled with the opportunity cost of keeping a potentially  more versatile, useful player on the bench makes him pretty pointless. Even in the Mets' situation, he will end up taking playing time away from one of Ike Davis, Nick Evans, or Chris Carter, all of whose development is more important to the Mets than whatever minuscule value Jacobs provides to the Buffalo Bisons.  

Still, I held off criticizing this signing at first because many people just seem eager to slam the team for any small move, and really, Mike Jacobs, the Bison, is not that significant. In the link above, Heyman insinuates the Mets view Jacobs as a potential starter and he reiterated as much on twitter. I am going to assume that is purely speculation based on some remark a Mets official made about doubting Murphy in another context. Many people dismay at the idea of Francoeur starting, but at least he can field and hit for average. Mike Jacobs succeeds only at hitting homeruns and fitting Dykstra-esque amounts of chaw in his mouth.

Probably, though, Daniel Murphy will enter Spring Training the presumptive starter. Much has been said about Murphy this offseason and most of it rings overzealous. Last year the debate over whether or not entrusting Murphy with leftfield made any sense created a situation where someone had to be right and someone wrong. In that way, Murphy's 2009 seemed unfairly like an absolute test of his skill in many people's eyes. 2009 did not go well, therefore all of those positive reports from Spring Training, the hype about his work ethic, Jerry's proclamation that he was a better hitter than Church and his 2008 call-up was all a veneer hiding an unspectacular player. Maybe. Yes, he had that fluky BABIP in 2008, but only because he was hitting an unsustainable amount of linedrives, not by some incredible string of luck. When I looked at Murphy's adjustments in the second half of last year, I became less certain of what caliber a hitter he'll be. He made improvements, but with caveats. His ability to hit inside fastballs improved greatly, but he demonstrated little ability to discriminate against fastballs right outside of the inner-zone. So will Murphy be an improved hitter in 2010? Probably, but to what extent depends on Daniel Murphy. Anyone who claims to know whether "first-half" or "second-half Murphy" will "show up" this season is probably just reiterating some bias they formed after 2008.

Somewhat conservatively, I'll default to CHONE's projection of Murphy as a .330 wOBA--exactly average--hitter. Looking at this projection, many people will say one of two things: he's a suitable stop-gap for Ike Davis and/or he does not have the bat to play first. The notion of Murphy as Ike Davis' stopgap bothers me, because it implies both that Murphy has some stable level of production we can live with for a season and that Ike Davis is a sure thing. Neither are true--anyone who assumes Ike Davis is destined for stardom is setting themselves up for disappointment. Without getting too much into a prospect discussion, Ike is very good, but with some kinks and is not yet exactly banging on the door. Also, there remains a significant, non-zero chance Murphy ends up the better firstbaseman. My reasoning here relates to why I think the "firstbase is for your masher" concept is a little antiquated. 

Most reading this article probably accept the fangraphs WAR model, or something close to it. Then you probably believe that David Dejesus, Nyjer Morgan, and Carl Crawford are very good left fielders, despite not being among the best hitters at their position. You probably see what I'm getting at, and may be thinking firstbase is an even less important defensive position, making this analogy a little tenuous. This disparity in importance, though, is reflected in a harsher positional adjustment and in the generally lower UZR scores for the top firstbasemen versus the top leftfielders. Yet, nearly every season (the last being a notable exception), a first baseman or two will add 1 WAR worth of value in fielding. Making a statement about Murphy's defense based on similar metrics last year would be pointless; they are nowhere near the necessary sample size to drawn conclusions. Yet, if leading the league in Dewan's plus/minus after a half season and then working with Keith Hernandez in the offseason does not portend a potentially elite defensive firstbaseman, nothing does. 

Chris Carter is the darkhorse here, but defense will probably keep him out the majors. Evans might also see AAA with the similar Fernando Tatis re-signed. Clearly, I'm firmly in the Murphy camp and I don't think his splits are such that he needs to straight-platoon with Tatis. 

Comment 41 comments  |  1 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Aggressive

One thing I noticed about Murph last year was how incredibly aggressive he was at first base—charging balls, looking to throw across the infield or home when there were runners on, etc. I don’t know how that portends for the future, but it did surprise me.

Of the motley crew of first basemen the Mets have, I am also in the Murphy camp. Page’s article from October did a great job breaking down Murphy’s approach on a PA-by-PA basis, but even if you just look at the aggregate lines, you see two very different halves.

1st half: .248/.314/.364
2nd half: .282/.313/.485

There is an iteration of Daniel Murphy’s career that looks like “above average major league first baseman,” something like .280/.350/.475 with plus defense. 2010, to me, is something of a crapshoot season, so I would give Murph at least a few hundred plate appearances to figure things out and hope for the best.

by sjohnson125 on Feb 11, 2010 8:44 AM EST reply actions  

the best high side comps I can think of are

Scott Hatteberg and Lyle Overbay. If he reaches that level he can help someone. He’s not there yet and may not get there.

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Feb 11, 2010 10:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Jacobs

He may be a good fit if someone goes down and he plays for 15 days or so..he has some pop. but in all he hasnt seemed to improve as he gained experience in MLB, he has gotten worse each year.

Maybe he can be traded later in the season for someone

by Rickfansince76 on Feb 11, 2010 9:09 AM EST reply actions  

Jacobs as platoon

Sam, terrific piece. What I’m wondering is this: isn’t Jacobs a decent platoon partner for Tatis? He has a career .830 OPS against righties. Now, he certainly gives a bunch of that back on defense, but does the defensive difference between Jacobs and Murphy make him a worse option in that role?
Of course, if he’s about the same as Murphy, and the team already had Murphy, and Murphy has upside Jacobs doesn’t…

by Howard Megdal on Feb 11, 2010 10:41 AM EST reply actions  

Murphy is a good piece on a team built around pitching, speed, and defense

especially if he can maintain a .340++ OBP.

The problem is that the Mets aren’t really building that team.

by Dan Lewis on Feb 11, 2010 10:49 AM EST reply actions  

It amazes me how so much cyber-space has been

used to tout Dan Murphy’s glove all stemming from just a part season of fielding “data”… especially when we already know how unreliable this data can be when the uzr of so many players can fluctuate wildly from year to year. Can we at least see Murphy play 1B for another year before we draw these kinds of accolades about the dude’s glove?

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Feb 11, 2010 11:10 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

I'll meet you halfway on this one

UZR ranked Murph very highly, but as you said that will fluctuate year to year so it needs to be used very cautiously. On the other hand, he showed great reflexes, an aggressive playing style, good range, and a good glove when he played there. All of the skills are there, so while UZR is somewhat untrustworthy due to sample size, there isn’t a lot of reason to believe his defense is suddenly going to fall off of a cliff either.

by KeithsMoustache on Feb 11, 2010 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

He looks aggressive one year

and foolish the next.

Muprhy’s never looked like a natural baseball player to me. It looks like he picked up a glove in middle. He reminds me of the kids that first tried playing organized baseball in middle school… they have none of the natural reflexes, movements, etc the smooth, natural that comes with playing little league. Some of those kids could hit pretty well and even field, but they were always error prone, because they had to think for that extra split second instead of just reacting.

Murphy is a natural gifted athlete, but without the game “coming naturally,” his reflexes will always be a shade behind the best.

by Olde Isle Mets Fan on Feb 11, 2010 12:09 PM EST up reply actions  

i don't agree with this

he was admittedly a pretty bad outfielder, but that was never his natural position. He looks fine in the infield, and his reflexes seemed pretty quick to me. With an aggressive style of 1b, errors are going to happen from time to time, I don’t think it has anything to do with his natural ability to play the game. I’m not sure how you can say he looks aggressive one year and foolish the next, when he’s only played 1b for once season anyway unless you’re projecting he will look foolish next year, in which case you’re faulting people for making predictions about him being a strong fielder in the future, and then predicting he will look bad next year because he “doesn’t look natural”.

by KeithsMoustache on Feb 11, 2010 12:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Also note

Sam said that there was “nowhere near the necessary sample size to draw[] conclusions” based on UZR or similar metrics, and deferred instead to the fact that Murphy led the league in plus/minus, which measures the actual plays made above average, in just one-half of a season at first base.

Plus, what KeithsMoustache said. Finally, if Keith Hernandez can teach first base as well as he played it, there’s reason for optimism in Murphy’s defensive ability at first base.

"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Feb 11, 2010 11:33 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm not closed minded to the possibility of

Murphy actually being a solid defender at 1B, but I’m not ready to make that conclusion just yet. I think a lot of what we’ve seen comes from hustle, good work habits and enthusiasm rather than good instincts, good footwork or soft hands. In other words, the former (hustle and enthusiasm) will only take him so far if he doesn’t develop better skills and instincts.

But again, I’m willing to reserve judgment for a while. As I’ve said elsewhere, I’m down on the guy’s viability to play other positions at an acceptable level and so unless his bat comes a long way this year, his future in the NL seems limited to me… but we’ll see. Despite what Heyman may have said about the Jacobs deal, it seems clear to me that the team is committed to play Murphy at 1B this year so he’ll get his chance.

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Feb 11, 2010 11:43 AM EST reply actions  

I really don't understand why you seem to think he'd be a better fit with an AL team.

If his bat is poor enough that he’s not a viable first baseman where his defense could certainly add value, how would he have any value as a DH? I can’t see his value being any different in the AL than it would be in the NL, as he really needs a defensive home to have value in either league.

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 11, 2010 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

in the AL

the DH option is available and it’s always easier to bury a bat in an AL lineup say if DM plays 1B for someone since that lineup would also have a DH to lift it up. iow, I thnk it’s harder to carry an average or below 1B bat in an NL lineup than an AL lineup… but I’m open to opposing theories on this…

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Feb 11, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

The DH option is certainly there, but that really doesn't add any value to Murph.

At this point I don’t think anyone in baseball would be satisfied with him as a DH. His value is either going to came as an everyday first baseman or as a utlility guy, in which case he would actually be more valuable to an NL team due to the larger number of defensive changes made because of the pitcher slot in the lineup.

To your point, I agree that it may certainly be easier to cover up a lackluster bat at first in the AL, but in no way does this add to his value in that league. Unless he’s truly a top flight defensive first baseman, there really wouldn’t be any reason for a team in the AL to want to hide his bat in the lineup. If he turns out to be a top flight defensive first baseman he’ll have the same type of value to an NL team, and it will really come down to what type of traits that team values in their players. I really can’t see how he’d have increased value due to the DH unless he’s a viable DH candidate.

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 11, 2010 12:07 PM EST up reply actions  

fair enough

as I’ve said, he’s going to have to establish his value this year, whether that’s as a bat or a glove (if not both).

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Feb 11, 2010 12:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, it's definitely too soon to proclaim him as much of anything, defensively or otherwise.

But, as far as a defensive first baseman goes, I will remain cautiously optimistic.

"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Feb 11, 2010 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

What difference does it make if

decent play stems from “hustle, good work habits and enthusiasm rather than good instincts, good footwork or soft hands”? Assuming that he can keep it up (that’s not even taking into account getting better, which is the more likely scenario, getting more used to the position, and getting tutored by former defensive 1b specialists), who cares if he gets by by drinking a lot of coffee, staying out all night carousing and then showing up for “work” ten minutes before practice starts, and being motivated by being able to stick it to his older, more successful older brother by becoming a baseball player on a big-time team?

With the exception of steroids, or some other form of against-the-rules cheating, so long as you play good, I don’t care how you do it.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 11, 2010 4:10 PM EST up reply actions  

as long as he can deliver, I don't care.

as I said hustle w/o talent or good instincts normally only gets one so far… as far as I’m concerned DM still has a lot to prove on both sides of the ball so to speak.

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Feb 11, 2010 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I imagine the 1B depth something like this:

Daniel Murphy – 1B
Chris Carter – bench
Nick Evans – AAA
Mike Jacobs – AAA bench/DH/PH
Ike Davis – AA

Carter and Evans could change places, but Jerry didn’t bother to use Evans last year.
Sam had covered this, but rather than Murphy’s defense, I’m mostly concerned with his BB% decline and his plate discipline. One of the things scouts praised him for was how he was patient and worked the count. Then he went on to the Francoeur-free-swinging-school of baseball.

by Michkin on Feb 11, 2010 11:47 AM EST reply actions  

I'd expect Ike to be at

Buffalo from the gate. If FCat beats out Carter for the 25th spot, then Carter will prob play RF in Buff. At this point, I expect Jacobs to get an early pink slip in ST so that he’ll get a shot to latch on with someone else. oh, and Evans will prob be in the Buff OF as well.

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Feb 11, 2010 11:56 AM EST reply actions  

I'd actually be surprised if F! isn't in right.

Pridie or Feliciano will likely be in center, and there are plenty of guys that could play left for the herd. I guess I could see F! in center, but it really remains to be seen. The IL has the DH option as well, so there’s always that. A Pascucci/Jacobs DH platoon would destroy the IL.

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 11, 2010 12:11 PM EST up reply actions  

On non dh days

where would Jacobs fit in. I’m not sure how AAA works so I don’t know how many games they’d play with a DH, but if it’s not that many it doesn’t seem like it would make much sense to be regularly sitting one of Evans/Carter to play Jacobs. Plus, assuming Davis doesn’t bomb his early session in AA it seems like he’d be arriving sooner than later to AAA. So unless one of F-mart/Evans/Carter/ or God forbid Jacobs, gets called up where are they all going to fit? I guess mostly it just seems weird to me that Jacobs would sign here to sit on the bench in AAA at this point in his career, but it also doesn’t make sense for them to give him regular playing time and take time away from two guys who are sort of still prospects.

"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'

it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.

by Gina on Feb 11, 2010 1:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Thats really not many days.

The IL only doesn’t use the DH on days where both teams are NL affiliates, and there are only 4 of those in the IL (and only one in division). That doesn’t lead to very many games where the pitchers bat. I think Jacobs likely thought that he had a legit shot at making the roster here, so this was probably an appealing location.

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 11, 2010 2:40 PM EST up reply actions  

you're right....

I always saw FM as a LFer but now with Bay over there, I guess FM’s future is in RF. Not sure what that means for Carter as I assume Evans will get LF. Carter could play some LF as well, but as a LHed arm you’d much prefer him in RF (if not 1B).

As it is, we know that some of this copious logjam will have to be relieved in ST… I don’t see a bunch of these career minor-leaguers like Hessman, Pascucci & Cervenak having roster spots even at Buff when all is said and done…

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Feb 11, 2010 12:25 PM EST reply actions  

I'm okay with Murph at first, but platoon is needed

or at least a very short leash. He cannot hit the tougher lefthanded guys. He really showed very little vs. lefties and this offense is not in a position where they can afford to have Murph struggle vs. lefties again. It’s got to be Tatis or Evans getting time there.

by Mackey Sasser on Feb 11, 2010 1:34 PM EST reply actions  

great piece

to me the x factor here that very few have talked about is Carter whom as Sam said is a real darkhorse. It seems like he can def hit, better than Murphy perhaps in the long run but has no position. The question is can he develop any kind of passable glove at first base where he might actually be worth a shot as an every day player. Ideally he would get playing time at triple AAA so he could play first every day but with Ike Davis there, that seems impossible. He can’t learn first at the major league level can he? why isn’t Keith working with him? And Is there any data that shows he could play the outfield without making a fool of himself?

by Endys Game on Feb 11, 2010 1:52 PM EST reply actions  

Keith is working with Chris too

and I’ve said before that if he can make Carter a good defensive 1B, that’d be a more useful trick than helping Murphy.

by Sam Page on Feb 11, 2010 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I have been in the lobby campaign for Carter.

He spent all 2008 playing LF (+11 runs/150) and most 2009 playing RF (-3 runs/150). He played some 1B in 2007/6 and just a few games in 2009 but the defense numbers weren’t pretty.
I remember some scouting reports claiming he had “stone gloves”, but a decent range. His OBP is around .365 against lefties and righties, but has less power against lefties (around 0.400 SLG).
For what is worth, there were some interviews he was saying he was working to improve his defense.

by Michkin on Feb 11, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

as to Murphy

I am still bullish on him as a fielder and as a guy who can get on base and show poise. I really think you have to throw out his first half where he was clearly pressing because of the injury to Delgado and his outfield woes. He looked much better in the second half.

by Endys Game on Feb 11, 2010 1:54 PM EST reply actions  

I think Nick Evans dies a little inside

every time another depth filler is signed

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Feb 11, 2010 5:44 PM EST reply actions  

Who?

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 11, 2010 6:23 PM EST up reply actions  

murph at first .

suppose if murph has a really good year hitting wise and playing good first base are you still going to throw him on the bench in favor of ike davis ? if that is the case you either play davis in the outfield or play murph at second base he did come up as a second baseman . he cant do anyworse then castillo cause lets face it orlando hudson is never going to be a met. murph to me is not a bench role player to me he is to good of a hitter to keep on the bench hey it is a great problem to have..

by lohaus#54 on Feb 11, 2010 6:53 PM EST reply actions  

He didn't come up as a 2nd baseman

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 11, 2010 9:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Ctm-logo_small
My dirty little secret: I was once a Yankees fan
Awesome_small
Sabermetrics and Me: Drowning in Objectivity
Mets002_small
2012 AA Prospects List #3

Recent FanPosts

Mets002_small
2012 AA Prospects List #6
Mets002_small
2012 AA Prospects List #5
X-wing_small
BrooksBaseball Player Cards: An Amazing Resource For Mets Fans Who Are Curious About How Pitchers Pitch In The Major Leagues
Mets002_small
2012 AA Prospects List #4
Small
Sandy Alderson, @MetsGM, and getting ready for Spring Training
Mets002_small
2012 AA Prospects List #1 (edit: and apparently #2)
Small
Two New York Players of OBP Yore

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

Judging by the comments to Matt Callan’s ode to 1986 Mets: A Year To Remember from a few weeks back, the video has a devoted Mets fan following. Despite being too young to remember anything about that season, it has a special place in my fandom as well. It was part of a two video rotation (Ghostbusters being the other) which ran almost daily on my television for a few years in the early 90s. And it remained a once-in-awhile watch through high school and college. 

Unsurprisingly, the physical tape deteriorated over time, and the screen jumps and sound skips made for a less than optimal viewing experience. With sale of the video discontinued, my brother converted it to DVD and gave it to me for Christmas in 2010. See the picture above for the box and DVD. He even created a scene selection function which can be accessed from the main menu. "Get Metsmerized!" plays on loop on the menu screen. It is my favorite Christmas gift ever and is still nice to throw on for a viewing.

"How'd we do it? Mirrors!"
I was flipping through some of my parents' photo albums this afternoon in search of one particular shot of the sign my older sister made for Mets Banner Day back in the late eighties. Though I didn't find that one — I'll post it when I eventually track it down, and I can assure you that it's Keith-themed — but I did stumble upon this wonderful photo of my younger sister's stuffed animal menagerie spread out in front of a glorious rainbow-festooned Mets pennant, also from the late eighties.

She works for the HRC now and was particularly delighted to be reminded of this photo.

(click to embiggen)
Now that banner day is back, hopefully this years will look a little like this. I know it's not great, but i don't pretend to be a professional. embiggen!

Recent FanShots

Dickey is # 2 defensive pitcher
Yahoo Sports comments on Sandy's Tweets
Using hindsight to redo the Mets’ offseason | Mets360
Cespedes to the Athletics
Kevin Goldstein Top 101
Okay, there is no way this is Sandy Alderson
Ike & Duda fantasy stocks rising
Sabermetrics! Fantasy League is live.
What if the Mets Never Traded for Johan Santana? | Patrick Flood
[O]f the $136.7M the Mets spent on players in 2011, $72.8M was given to...

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Ctm-logo_small
My dirty little secret: I was once a Yankees fan
Awesome_small
Sabermetrics and Me: Drowning in Objectivity
Mets002_small
2012 AA Prospects List #3

Recent FanPosts

Mets002_small
2012 AA Prospects List #6
Mets002_small
2012 AA Prospects List #5
X-wing_small
BrooksBaseball Player Cards: An Amazing Resource For Mets Fans Who Are Curious About How Pitchers Pitch In The Major Leagues
Mets002_small
2012 AA Prospects List #4
Small
Sandy Alderson, @MetsGM, and getting ready for Spring Training
Mets002_small
2012 AA Prospects List #1 (edit: and apparently #2)
Small
Two New York Players of OBP Yore

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


THE BIG GUY

Aa_avatar_small Eric Simon

THE INCREDIBLES

Blackfish2_small Alex Nelson

Endy_small Rob Castellano

Img_1262_small Matthew Artus

Kanye_pekka_small Sam Page

Best_infield_ever_small James Kannengieser

Metsstitches_small Eno Sarris

48900_1085732804_4466_n_small Chris McShane

Lg_rocker_ap_small Matthew Callan

Billy_and_daddy_4th_of_july_small Bill Petti

THE NEWS GURUS

Mrmet_small Steve Schreiber

3_small Stephen Schmidt

159714144_040c6c1501_small Pack Bringley

124967042_crop_340x234_small Jeffrey Paternostro