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Around SBN: What If This Is It For The Celtics? End Of An Era Looming

via Jay Jaffe's twitter feed, read about Frank Thomas' injury woes with the White Sox in this 10-year-old SI piece and try not to think too hard about last season. Or, you know, this upcoming one.

over 2 years ago Hobodan_tiny Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright 36 comments 2 recs  | 

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Great find

Once a scumbag, always a scumbag.

by Bieser's Balk on Feb 15, 2010 11:21 AM EST reply actions  

Bad joke

Manuel’s lucky Thomas didn’t put a “Big Hurt” on him.

"For $11.4 million you can actually get a good player. But of course this is one of the things foolish organizations do: They complain that they can't afford good players after spending millions of dollars on not-good players." --Rob Neyer

by boom_roasted on Feb 15, 2010 12:40 PM EST reply actions  

I hope that's poor becomes a new meme

"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'

it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.

by Gina on Feb 15, 2010 1:19 PM EST reply actions  

Hmm . . .

Jerry Manuel: OK, I want the pitchers in the outfield doing some long tossing.
Johan Santana: Hey, skip, I feel this shooting pain in my left shoulder every time I throw the ball. Maybe I should go check in with New York Mets trainer Ray Ramirez.
JM: What, you’re not a team player, Johan Santana? I’ll cut you!
JS: I think there’s something wrong with my shoulder and I don’t want to throw until it gets checked out!
(Johan Santana walks towards clubhouse)
JM: That’s poor, Johan Santana. That’s poor.

"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Feb 15, 2010 1:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Clearly, Frank Thomas wasn't the same kind of animal as Paul Konerko.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 15, 2010 1:44 PM EST reply actions  

As dumb as that makes manuel look, Thomas really comes off as quite a piece of work himself.

Can you imagine how badly Milton Bradley and Manuel would have clashed?

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 15, 2010 1:59 PM EST reply actions  

Yeah, Thomas doesn't exactly come off as a real prize himself.

I never knew he had a record label!

"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Feb 15, 2010 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I had a hard time believing his bone spurs were "the size of a golf ball"

If that was the case, he wouldn’t even be able to get his feet in his shoes. I’m sure they were painful, but thats a pretty big fish story.

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 15, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Manuel looks like a moron in this article....

but Thomas comes off to me, as egotistical and self-centered, so not much better.

by Syler on Feb 15, 2010 4:33 PM EST reply actions  

Well if Jerry can stand up to Thomas like that...

I’m impressed.

Somehow.

you know what I'm sayin' ?

by fxcarden on Feb 15, 2010 5:07 PM EST reply actions  

It strikes me as odd that Thomas had a doctors note.

Why aren’t the White Sox doctors communicating with Manuel (and vise versa)? Kind of makes you wonder if the issues the Mets are having last season stem more from Manuel and less from the front office.

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 15, 2010 5:13 PM EST reply actions  

Personal doctor to team doctor, team doctor to trainer, trainer to manager

I don’t think that’s the managers job. The trainers and the doctors have to inform the manager. Frank’s doctor should have alerted the Whitesox training staff to his status, and condition, then the training staff needed to relay the message to Manuel. The training staff could have given Thomas an alternative workout program. Having a note and waving it at his manager right about the time the workouts were going to start is bs.

by Coolpapabell on Feb 15, 2010 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

But at the same time,

from the article it seems Thomas was telling him that, although being a dick about it. I think at that point, he should’ve used his judgment and pulled Frank from the shuttles quietly and let him heal up. Making a spectacle out of it is only gonna cause more troubles later anyways.

Coming this April, fun times with Jeff and Gary!

by Brian. on Feb 15, 2010 8:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Over/Under

before the same happens with Beltran?

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Feb 15, 2010 6:22 PM EST reply actions  

Manuel

I really despise that guy. I want Omar to be fired but I can’t say I dislike him. Manuel is incorrigible.

by James Kannengieser on Feb 15, 2010 7:40 PM EST reply actions  

So true.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 15, 2010 8:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, Jerry comes off as an enormous dick in that story.

The guy seems like he just likes to bully people who he perceives aren’t putting forth 100%, and sees injuries as an excuse.

by BobbyV_Incognito on Feb 15, 2010 9:17 PM EST up reply actions  

This

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Feb 15, 2010 10:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I already disliked Jerry as a manager from a tactical standpoint.

But that article made me lose so much respect for him as a man. His attitude and ignorance are horrifying.

by Andrew McCarthy on Feb 15, 2010 8:41 PM EST reply actions  

It just kind of confirmed what we were learning last year with church.

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 15, 2010 8:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Is this is a joke?

You think the same stuff wouldn’t piss off bobby cox? Newsflash: Coaches hate injuries. Frank Thomas comes off as the real dick in that article and the whole Jerry-Frank situation ends with them coming to a truce. When Ozzie Guillen, a former teammate calls someone a cancer, that should shed light onto how the manager has to deal with them. Quit grasping at straws to find anything to throw dirt on jerry. I know he may not even be good for the Mets, but I’d much rather see him win than lose.

President of the Ramses Barden Fan Club

Fact on Villanova Sports

by Hoyadestroya85 on Feb 16, 2010 2:02 AM EST reply actions  

They're both self-centered assholes

but we already knew that about Thomas. So to me, the revelation is Jerry.

by Prince on Feb 16, 2010 11:04 AM EST up reply actions  

rec'd

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Feb 16, 2010 11:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Rec'd

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 16, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions  

The biggest problem with Manuel...

is that everything he does is done with an eye toward making himself look good to the media.

It started with taking subtle shots at Randolph after taking over (subtext: don’t blame me for anything that’s gone wrong here). And he loves playing up the Gandhi/MLK angle, as if he’s some sage, Red-in-Shawshank Redemption wise man.

It continues with idiotic moves like pinch-hitting Santos for Castro, a move that screams of a hero complex. If Santos gets a hit, every article praises Jerry for trusting his gut.

It’s seen in his ridiculous, borderline insulting spring training “priorities” like throwing strikes or hitting the ball the other way. Just a typical look-at-me thing to show the media his teams “play the right way.”

And most importantly, it’s the way he continually takes shots at current and former players — most notably Church, but also guys in the bullpen, Santos/Schneider (who admittedly suck), etc. Nothing’s ever Jerry’s fault. And for some reason, the media and some fans love the fact we have a manager who “tells it like it is.”

by Bieser's Balk on Feb 16, 2010 12:52 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

In regards to Manuel

Something I find completely bizarre;

Manuel has a losing record as Mets manager if I’m not mistaken, and he hasn’t made the playoffs in either of his seasons here, yet he hasn’t even been close to losing his job

Yet… if you look at say, the NY Giants, they miss the playoffs for the first time in four years, and in the last two years, a Super Bowl title and a #1 seed in the NFC, yet fans and a large part of the media were calling for Tom Coughlin to be fired.

Am I the only one who finds that completely insane?

by Syler on Feb 16, 2010 3:42 PM EST reply actions  

I guess it depends on what you consider insane

is it ridiculous yes, but I imagine it has a lot to do with how both interact with the media. Also in football I think head coaches are seen as having WAY more control over the organization than in baseball. In football head coaches and gms often work together and head coaches often have first say on coaching and playing personnel while gms often handle more of the business side. Where as in baseball managers are almost like baby-sitters to the players and philosophy of the gm. Most people probably aren’t calling for Manuels head cause, while he’s an awful manager, they’ve already seen one manager fired under Minaya without any problems solved so they’re moving onto the bigger fish, and even with Minaya they’re starting to move onto the Wilpons since the same problems seem to be persisting through 3 gm changes.

"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'

it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.

by Gina on Feb 16, 2010 4:08 PM EST up reply actions  

All of the injuries are covering his ass (and Omar, to a degree).

WE know about some of the boneheaded moves in-game that cost us a few games, and all of the asinine things that he says/does, but it all comes down to performance, and that little pesky thought will always be there whispering, “What if half of the team didn’t get injured? We might have made it to the playoffs.”

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 16, 2010 8:31 PM EST up reply actions  

The reason Manuel is still around

has a lot to do with how the team performed after he took over as manager in ’08. Under Randolph they were 34 and 35. Under Manuel they went 55 and 38. That impressed the Wilpons. That and the team playing “meaningful” games in the fall. You could argue that in spite of the appalling collapse at the end of 2008 Manuel bought himself a chance to manage in 2009 because of the overall turnaround of the team after he took over.

I don’t like him, and I think he got lucky until his true talent level found him. I don’t see him, at all, as a guy who handles any aspect of the game particularly well, and I think he finds ways to lose in the long run. I see why the Wilpons kept him around, though.

by SeanSchirmer on Feb 17, 2010 10:41 PM EST up reply actions  

This

"I've been trying transcendental meditation, and that helps me be passive and wait on the curve. I've got to find something else to hit the slider." - George (The Stork) Theodore

by StorkFan on Feb 18, 2010 11:25 PM EST up reply actions  

the real reason is

that the wilpons refuse to eat contracts. Manuel or Omar won’t be fired until their contract is up. This is why Castillo still has a job, and no matter how bad Ollie is he will throw every 4th day. They refuse to eat bad contracts. If the Wilpons are paying em their playing em!!!!

by TheKid08 on Feb 19, 2010 4:07 PM EST reply actions  

Reading up on U.S. Grant

Grant and Gandhi is a pretty catholic mix. Does Earl Weaver have any books out we can send him?

by wobatus on Feb 20, 2010 10:18 PM EST reply actions  

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