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Around SBN: Are The Orioles Bad Or Unlucky With Their Young Pitching?

Rod Barajas Signs With Mets

Ken Rosenthal reported first that Rod Barajas to the Mets is basically official.

It's probably worth pointing out that Gregg Zaun signed with the Brewers for one year and $2.15 million months ago, and Barajas signed just now for basically the same amount of money, assuming the incentives are as easily-attainable as Rosenthal would have us believe. Zaun has been worth 4.6 WAR over the past three seasons; Barajas, 2.5 WAR.

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Good.

Pretty much a sieve with the bat (low average, sub-.300 OBP, might crack 15+ HR with decent playing time) but graded out very strong behind the dish last year and does 2 important things: 1) lets Thole work on defense in AAA, and, 2) keeps Santos away from starting.

by nmigliore on Feb 20, 2010 3:35 PM EST reply actions  

Can't say I'm unhappy about this

He’ll probably be a similar total value to Bengie and a much cheaper price. The Mets may have actually got something right this offseason here.

My only question at this point is how the organization handles the Thole, Santos, Coste trifecta. Do they stick all three in Triple-A, giving Santos and Thole most of the ABs and letting Coste act as kind of a catching coach? They can’t really afford to give Coste playing time at first base unless they send Ike Davis back to Double-A. Would they send Santos to Double-A to keep Thole and Coste together?

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Feb 20, 2010 3:39 PM EST reply actions  

This

The 2010 New York Mets: Maybe it's the Phillies' turn to have 95% of its roster on the DL

The 2009 New England Patriots: At least we got our division title back

The 2009-10 New Jersey Devils: Allergic to second periods

by R_Adragna on Feb 20, 2010 4:01 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah

for all the crap omar received on this site regarding misreading the market in terms of salaries a la branyan & cora a few days back, this was a pretty well played acquisition and he deserves credit.

by Rob Castellano on Feb 20, 2010 3:45 PM EST reply actions  

Not really

As mentioned before we could have signed Gregg Zaun for around the same money and had a much better player.

"I got my pregnant wife (the Yankee fan) with me. Hoping my kid learns to kick her everytime the Mets score." -Schifftis-

by future on Feb 20, 2010 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Really? Much better?

CHONE actually projects Barajas to be slightly better, mostly because of a five defensive run difference. Don’t forget Zaun is also 39, three and a half years older than Barajas.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Feb 20, 2010 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

age

yeah thats what kept me from feeling bad about barajas instead of zaun. especially since the aforementioned 3yr WAR figures probably aren’t that relevent since we’re talking about catchers in the twilights of their careers and defense definitely favors barajas.

plus, you can’t discount the fact that half of barajas’ $2M is not guaranteed, no matter how easily attainable.

by Rob Castellano on Feb 20, 2010 4:04 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Gotta be careful applying fangraphs WAR to catchers

It doesn’t include defense, which would likely close the gap, though probably not the whole way. Barajas is also younger and even if the incentives are easily attainable, non-guaranteed dollars always carry less risk than guaranteed ones.

This is a perfectly savvy move for the Mets this late in the game. Neither Blanco or Barajas are as durable as Molina, but with a less prohibative salary, Barajas could just as easily fill a backup role if the Mets need to call on Thole either because Blanco gets hurt or because Thole forces his way onto the major league roster.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Feb 20, 2010 3:58 PM EST reply actions  

I agree that this is probably on of the better choices for catcher this offseason,

but why do the Mets also have Blanco, Santos, Thole, Riggins, Coste? Maybe trading for Shoppach or Snyder would have been better, but this is probably a good move.

by EtSuKe on Feb 20, 2010 4:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Its not like any of those guys really cost anything though

Blanco’s going to be on the roster, and he’s the only one who cost a significant amount. Coste came with some cost, but it was to basically fill the role of Thole-coach anyway, which he should still be able to do. Santos and Thole were already in house and are 0-3 players, and Riggans didn’t cost anything significant.

I would have preferred Shoppach, I’ll agree there, but other than that, the next tier was basically Barajas, Zaun, and Molina, and the Mets got one of those guys and invested less than Zaun and Molina’s teams did in them (albiet only slightly less than Zaun).

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Feb 20, 2010 4:29 PM EST up reply actions  

He's better than Santos

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Feb 20, 2010 4:01 PM EST reply actions  

But...but...

Omir has infinite grission. He’s a winner!

The 2010 New York Mets: Maybe it's the Phillies' turn to have 95% of its roster on the DL

The 2009 New England Patriots: At least we got our division title back

The 2009-10 New Jersey Devils: Allergic to second periods

by R_Adragna on Feb 20, 2010 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Barajas sounds grissiony

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Feb 20, 2010 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

+100000 Grission points

he’s achieved something unlike that loser Jose Reyes

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Feb 20, 2010 4:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Too bad he got dumped after 2007.

That would’ve made the pick-up mean something.

The 2010 New York Mets: Maybe it's the Phillies' turn to have 95% of its roster on the DL

The 2009 New England Patriots: At least we got our division title back

The 2009-10 New Jersey Devils: Allergic to second periods

by R_Adragna on Feb 20, 2010 4:11 PM EST up reply actions  

loser

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Feb 20, 2010 4:14 PM EST up reply actions  

dude that is priceless lol lol lol lol ..

by lohaus#54 on Feb 20, 2010 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

santos trade bait ?

i like the signing of big rod i think they should trade santos for some pitching maybe try to get bronson arroyo . it dont matter cause thole is the future catcher ..

by lohaus#54 on Feb 20, 2010 4:29 PM EST reply actions  

Good signing

Would prefer Zaun, but what can you do. Barajas is probably better defensively, but to what extent? Evaluating catcher defense is iffy territory — that oft-cited Driveline Mechanics post had Barajas at +4.2 and Zaun at +1.8 in 2009. Baseball Analysts pegged Zaun as the best at blocking pitches in the dirt the last 3 seasons. Barajas also rated well.

Regardless, Barajas/Blanco is a better catching tandem than I would have predicted at the start of the offseason.

by James Kannengieser on Feb 20, 2010 4:39 PM EST reply actions  

I never saw that DM study before

but just based on watching Kendall and Rivera, it seems wacky.

by ol Pete on Feb 20, 2010 5:01 PM EST up reply actions  

We're paying 2 million to Barajas who isn't very good

but we weren’t willing to take a 4.5 million dollar flyer on Snyder? I imagine the money we’re paying all the catchers we have now adds up to a pretty similar number.

"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'

it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.

by Gina on Feb 20, 2010 4:48 PM EST reply actions  

But isn't there

a red flag with Snyder’s back? I imagine the Mets feel he’s not worth the risk.

Coming this April, fun times with Jeff and Gary!

by Brian. on Feb 20, 2010 4:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Well that's why it would be a flyer

Because he comes with a redflag and huge upside, and if he worked out his value would be well above 4.5 million. Although he’s also signed for 5.75 next year so I suppose that would be some of the worry if he didn’t work out. But it just seems like we’re going to be paying around 4 million anyone for combined production that probably isn’t even better than his downside production.

"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'

it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.

by Gina on Feb 20, 2010 5:07 PM EST up reply actions  

but he won't come cheap like you're saying

and thats been the issue since we keep hearing that omar is talking to the dbacks but nothing has come of it.

basically josh byrnes is trying to get something of value back on a catcher who aj hinch benched as his first act immediately upon taking over, is guaranteed $11+M over the next 2 yrs, just had back surgery on a condition that is usually debilitating, will soon turn 30 and and batted .200 this season w/ 6hrs. oh and they won’t pick up any of the cash. that is not taking a flier, that is beggars being choosers and omar wisely passing.

and i don’t see the huge upside either considering in his best season he batted. 237 and hit only 16hrs, 3 less than barajas hit last season.

by Rob Castellano on Feb 20, 2010 5:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh okay

what I’d read had said the major hang up on the deal was taking on the whole 4.5 million, I assumed it was trading of nonprospect types, not actual players of value plus taking on the money owed.

"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'

it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.

by Gina on Feb 20, 2010 5:50 PM EST up reply actions  

In his best season he also had a .346 wOBA

and CHONE projects a .329 wOBA for 2010. He had a .348 OBP when he had a .237 AVG. He had a .210 ISO, Barajas had a .177 ISO last year. If he is healthy he is a very good catcher.

by EtSuKe on Feb 20, 2010 6:06 PM EST up reply actions  

i guess

he’s probably better than i characterized, don’t know if i’d say very good considering that was his one of maybe 2 solid seasons in his entire career and neither was spectacular by any means nor is his defense lauded much. if he’s ver good then what do we call brian mccann or joe mauer? but snyder’s definitely not bad when healthy, the issue is that potential is not nearly enough to overcome all of the aforementioned problems with trading for him.

by Rob Castellano on Feb 21, 2010 12:33 AM EST up reply actions  

It depends who you would have to give up in the trade, but if it were for nothing

I think Snyder is worth the $11 or so million risk over the next 2 years.

by EtSuKe on Feb 21, 2010 1:36 AM EST up reply actions  

agreed

if it’s virtually a straight salary dump then I think it’s absolutely worth the risk. if Arizona was actually asking for prospects then I’m more offended that Omar would have considered it as long as we didn’t have to take on the full contract.

"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'

it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.

by Gina on Feb 21, 2010 1:40 AM EST up reply actions  

can he hit?

I dont expect the next sultan of swat as a catcher but is he dependable enough to drive runs in when we got guys on base. Cause, outside of pitcher , thats my biggest worry with this team. The lack of driving in runs…especially with 2 outs.

"The Mets are my favorite squadron." Apu

by the caveman on Feb 20, 2010 5:01 PM EST reply actions  

Nope.

He sucks at hitting.

by EtSuKe on Feb 20, 2010 5:28 PM EST up reply actions  

luckily it won't matter

between the pitching and defense we’ll be giving up too many runs to have many “clutch” hitting situations.

"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'

it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.

by Gina on Feb 20, 2010 5:31 PM EST up reply actions  

sucks at getting on base

Good power esp. for a catcher though

Goodbye Sir Dr. Sen. Brain SOCKS! D.D.S.R.S.V.P

by metsguy234 on Feb 20, 2010 5:33 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Eh his slugging wasn't that much higher than the average NL catcher last year

especially when compared to how below average his obp was. he slugged .403, the average NL catcher slugged .385, his obp was .258, the average NL catcher’s was .325. He’s been much closer to, and sometimes above average, in previous years, mostly because of his power, but fell off a major cliff last year.

"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'

it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.

by Gina on Feb 20, 2010 5:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Probably a .240-.250 BA with 15-20 HR? Not great…but probably hovering around the league average for catchers

by ljshorty89 on Feb 20, 2010 5:35 PM EST reply actions  

CHONE projection:

.237/.285/.393, 13 HR, 48 RBI, .297 wOBA, 78 wRC+ in 383 PA.

by EtSuKe on Feb 20, 2010 5:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll take it.

It’s an upgrade over Santos. I don’t know if that says more about Barajas as a player or the Mets as a team, but he is an upgrade. They got better. Barajas/Blanco won’t kill you. If you’re going to hit poorly at least defend behind the plate.

by True Blue4 on Feb 20, 2010 5:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Is the Barajas over Santos upgrade better than Lopez over Castillo?

Without looking at the numbers, I would say no, but interested to hear what people think. And if Barajas is likely to get $2 million, I’d probably rather have spent an extra million or so to grab Lopez.

Although since that was apparently never in consideration, can’t complain about this.

by Bieser's Balk on Feb 20, 2010 6:01 PM EST reply actions  

Agreed. Barajas had an on-base percentage last year of .258.

His glove can’t overcome that. It can’t come close to overcoming that. Barajas is not who you get if you’re looking to contend.

by SeanSchirmer on Feb 22, 2010 1:32 AM EST up reply actions  

So.......

The Skankees have A-Rod and we have Rod-B ?

you know what I'm sayin' ?

by fxcarden on Feb 20, 2010 6:17 PM EST reply actions  

I really don't like this signing

because it only serves to block Thole for another year, and will bump a replacement level catcher (pretty clearly Shawn Riggans) to Double-A Binghamton.

Goodbye Sir Dr. Sen. Brain SOCKS! D.D.S.R.S.V.P

by metsguy234 on Feb 20, 2010 8:16 PM EST reply actions  

Thole being ready isn't that likely anyway

and there’s no real reason to start his clock in what will likely be a last season, especially if he’s not ready.

"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'

it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.

by Gina on Feb 20, 2010 8:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah lost.

"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'

it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.

by Gina on Feb 20, 2010 9:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Barajas is nothing more than a stopgap.

I don’t see him even making a difference on what could likely be a season of very low expectations.

The 2010 New York Mets: Maybe it's the Phillies' turn to have 95% of its roster on the DL

The 2009 New England Patriots: At least we got our division title back

The 2009-10 New Jersey Devils: Allergic to second periods

by R_Adragna on Feb 20, 2010 9:46 PM EST up reply actions  

We did it guys

we signed another catcher. I actually don’t mind this signing though. We have a serviceable starting catcher at least. Not my first choice, but if it sends the thunder god down, it can’t be an all bad move.

by KeithsMoustache on Feb 20, 2010 11:05 PM EST reply actions  

A ludicrous signing. Yet another lesson in how not to build a roster.

It seems newly-signed Rod Barajas is now the starter, Blanco the backup.

Intelligent roster construction (as opposed to mere reactiing to circumstance, compensating for previous bungling, and so on) involves finding players whose skills complement one anothers’. An ordinary front office, one not clairvoyant or even highly skilled in the nuances of putting a team together, would probably figure out some time during the long offseason that if a player solid in all aspects of the game was unavailable, a left-right platoon, or an offense-defense platoon, would be the way to go.

The Mets have managed to come up with none of these arrangments, and instead have pushed the team farther from contention. Here are the career slash lines of the Mets newest catching platoon:

Barajas: .238/.284/.408/.691 OPS+: 76
Blanco: .228/.292/.366/.658 OPS+: 67

So far, so bad. Neither player has been able to compile a career OBP above the OBP Mendoza line of .300. Perhaps at least what hitting skills they do have are complementary?

Platoon splits versus RHP:
Barajas: .240/.282/.402/.684
Blanco: .220/.280/.346/.627

Platoon splits versus LHP:
Barajas: .234/.288/.426/ 714
Blanco: .246/.322/.417/ 739

In other words, as bad at hitting as both these guys are overall, both are actually worse against right-handed pitching, the handedness the team will be facing around 70% of the time this season. Further, it puts the manager in a straitjacket in late innings particularly when Barajas starts versus a lefty and the opposing manager brings in a righty reliever.
 
Just to get some perspective on a signing that a lot of people are finding anywhere from “not completely awful” to actually “good”, here are the career stats for two players, the voluntary acquisition of one which was met last year with universal derision:

Rod Barajas:.238/.284/.408/.691 OPS+: 76
Yuniesky Betancourt:.275/.298/.390/.689 OPS+:82

Last year Betancourt’s OBP was a ridiculous .274, a figure completely unacceptable from a major league regular. Barajas OBP last year? .258.

Congratulations, Mets fans. Your front office just shelled a guaranteed major league roster spot, one million dollars guaranteed, and another million dollars in easily reached incentives, to a player who is a significantly worse hitter than, and significantly older than, Yuniesky Betancourt. Or, to look at it another way, the Mets now have a left-left defense-defense “platoon” at catcher. Well done!

by SeanSchirmer on Feb 20, 2010 11:21 PM EST reply actions  

thats not a fair comparison in any way

you just can’t compare a shortstop and a catcher. considering i can count like maybe 5 catchers who are actually good all around players in all of baseball, the rest are either mediocre, one-sided or just plain bad. meanwhile there are at least 10-15 good shortstops in baseball and then like 5-7 more before you really get to the dregs like betancourt.

by Rob Castellano on Feb 21, 2010 12:45 AM EST up reply actions  

So let's simplify: do you want to go on record stating that Yuniesky Betancourt is -not- a better hitter than either Barajas and Blanco?

As for all around players, where does that come in? I never said Blanco and Barajas weren’t better defenders at their position than Betancourt was for his. The problem is that it’s not possible for your glove to make up for a .258 OBP, and Barajas is old and only getting older. He’s a disaster as a hitter, his skills don’t complement Blanco’s, and the Mets are happy to pay him between 1 and 2 million dollars.

It’s absurd on the face of it.

by SeanSchirmer on Feb 21, 2010 12:56 AM EST up reply actions  

They both have career .296 wOBA

and Barajas is a good defensive catcher while Betancourt is a terrible shortstop.

by Evan_S on Feb 21, 2010 4:51 AM EST up reply actions  

here's the point

it’s apples to oranges.

for general purposes, yes i agree barajas isn’t a better offensive player than betancourt. but for valuation purposes, barajas is worth far more despite similar offensive #‘s because he plays a position where there isn’t much to choose from while there are plenty of good shortstops out there. so unless we had a shot at one of the handful of top catchers and turned it down OR overpaid for barajas, i don’t see whats to get upset about.

would it have been better to get zaun? possibly but aside from the fact that he’s 3 years older, he signed in december, back when we were working on bay and at least in discussions w/ pitchers. the timing just didn’t work out, we have to accept that omar can’t be everyplace at once. so i don’t see this as a major gaff by omar at all.

by Rob Castellano on Feb 21, 2010 9:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Here's the point:

there is no ballplayer in the world who can overcome the lack of inability to get on base that is the defining characteristic of Rod Barajas’ career. Ozzie Smith in his prime as a fielder would not have been an average player or anything close to it with Barajas’ OBP, adjusted for era.

We need to get past fangraphs and WAR on this. A contending team does not get an old guy whose OBP is major league worst for his career, and then got 25 points worse in 2009. A contending team does not get an old guy whose skill set is practically identical to the old guy they already have, and think they’ve done anything but push themselves further away from contention.

Barajas’ OBP last year was .258.

That’s the worst in the majors for a guy who played as many games as Barajas did. In other words, we picked up the guy who is the WORST at the most important offensive skill in baseball. I’m sure you remember how badly Bengie Molina was skewered on this site for his inability to get on base. Rod Barajas is worse than that. He’s a lot worse.

You guys are smart guys. How can you see picking up Barajas as anything other than a blunder?

by SeanSchirmer on Feb 22, 2010 1:46 AM EST up reply actions  

The reason I don't think its a blunder is

that its only a 1 year deal for probably $2 million. He was one of the better catchers available this offseason. It seems he is very good defensively, which I know is hard to measure, but can’t be ignored. There are multiple facets to a players offensive game. Barajas is projected for a .297 wOBA, which is bad, but not outrageously bad for a catcher. CHONE also projects 1.5 WAR (if you make his defense 0 runs, its 1.1 WAR). 1.5 WAR for $2 million isn’t not a bad move.

by EtSuKe on Feb 22, 2010 2:25 AM EST up reply actions  

That's not really accurate at all

Barajas is one of the better defensive catchers in baseball; Yuniesky is one of the worst defensive shortstops in baseball

CHONE projects Barajas to be worth 1.5 WAR; Yuniesky? 0.3

Also, Barajas had a .229 BABPIP, which is significantly below his career mark of .253, so while his OBP won’t be good next year, it should be a lot better than .258

Barajas is going to make less than $1 million guaranteed; he was worth $2.8 million last year, $5.9 million in 2008, and is predicted to be worth $6.9 million in 2010 by CHONE

Also keep in mind, aside from Zaun, the free agent market for catchers sucked, and Barajas was the best of the bunch.

Is Barajas a great catcher? Not at all. Is he a decent for a catcher? Absolutely

The Mets have done a lot of dumb and terrible things this offseason, but Barajas is not one of them, and he certainly doesn’t deserve to be compared to Betancourt.

by Syler on Feb 21, 2010 12:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Of course it's accurate--you're simply pretending I made a comparison I didn't make.

I was talking about them as hitters, for the sake of getting perspective on how ungodly bad this signing is.
I gave and give credit to both sides of the Mets platoon as being decent defenders. The context was offense.
Good luck arguing with yourself, though.

“Is Barajas a great catcher? Not at all. Is he a decent for a catcher? Absolutely”

Except that, absolutely, he’s not a decent catcher. His career OBP is terrible. Last year it was worse. It was .258. That’s obscene. It’s just about impossible to do. To be a “decent” catcher, to overcome a league worst type OBP, he’d have to save around 40 runs with his glove. Since the difference between the best and worst catchers is around 12 runs on defense, there’s simply no way that Barajas is “decent”.

Pretending that I compared their defense doesn’t—of course—mean I did. What I pointed out was that Barajas was and is a ridiculously bad hitter whose skills, such as they are, do nothing at all to complement Blanco’s.

“Also, Barajas had a .229 BABPIP, which is significantly below his career mark of .253, so while his OBP won’t be good next year, it should be a lot better than .258”

Well, it should, except for the part where it won’t. He’s turning 34. His career OBP is .284. Hs OBP is going to get a lot better? You’re wishcasting here. You cannot want a guy with that OBP starting on a contending team. It’s beyond irrational.

by SeanSchirmer on Feb 21, 2010 1:13 AM EST up reply actions  

You make it seem as if good catchers grow on trees

After Zaun, there was garbage on the free agent market, or you could take a chance on Snyder, who has a bad back and is making $11 million the next two years.

Every catcher on the free agent market after Zaun was either one who didn’t get on base, or didn’t hit for power. Given the Schneider and Santos debacle of last year, they went for one with moderate pop

Barajas is getting $1 m guaranteed, with at most $1 m in incentives.

If Barajas does what he did last year, he’ll be worth his contract, and if he can replicate his 2008 performance, he’ll easily outperform the contract.

And the reason, I said his OBP should go up is simple; his BABPIP will probably rise this season, which should increase his batting average, and thus his OBP.

The problem wasn’t signing Barajas; it was signing Coste, Riggins, and Blanco before him.

by Syler on Feb 21, 2010 1:27 AM EST up reply actions  

No. I don't make it seem like good catchers grow on trees.

Besides, you just said it yourself. “After Zaun…” Why isn’t a marginally competent front office, with a huge hole at the position of catcher, not in there quickly and making an offer for Zaun? Why? He signed early for $2.35 million. Have the Mets not already spent more than that on catchers? Weren’t they willing to pay Molina $5 million.

When you write “After Zaun…” what you’re really writing is, “After we made an excruciatingly obvious blunder, of not getting a solid catcher early and cheap…”

by SeanSchirmer on Feb 21, 2010 3:39 AM EST up reply actions  

"After we made an excruciatingly obvious blunder, of not getting a solid catcher early and cheap…"

That was done incredibly early in the offseason, when they were still foolishly going after Molina.

Again, my point is, AFTER Zaun, there was not much out there, and Barajas is probably the best of the bunch.

We obviously should have signed him, but after he went to the Brewers, there wasn’t much else out there.

by Syler on Feb 21, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Right. After blundering foolishly through the offseason we spent $1-2 million

to make the club worse.

How can we not expect the front office throughout the year to have readily available lists of who is available for each position, in roughly the order we think they’re worth and in roughly the order of how highly we value their acquisition?

How is it possible for the head of a billion dollar business to go, oops! I forgot to get a starting catcher whose OBP was above .258 last season!

This is no different from that thread about Omar in the car on the way home from work saying “FucK! I forgot to get a starting pitcher!!”

by SeanSchirmer on Feb 22, 2010 2:00 AM EST up reply actions  

I really don't see how this wasn't a good signing.

He’s better than Santos in pretty much every way. CHONE has him at 1.5 WAR next year. He is an upgrade.

You just kill every move the Mets make no matter what. Sure, some moves have been bad. But this is not one of them.

by supermets on Feb 21, 2010 1:08 AM EST up reply actions  

He's not really better than Blanco though

and platooning him and Blanco really doesn’t make sense since they basically have the same skill set.

"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'

it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.

by Gina on Feb 21, 2010 1:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Well that was kind of my point

he’s not a clear upgrade over a catcher they already have on their roster, and his skill set doesn’t match with a possible platoon with that player either.

"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'

it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.

by Gina on Feb 21, 2010 1:30 AM EST up reply actions  

They didn't plan on ANYTHING. That's the problem!

That’s why they wound up with two guys who can’t hit, and certainly can’t hit righthanders. That’s not a plan. That’s a bumblefuck because you don’t know how to put a baseball team together, have your head up your ass, and wind up fucked even when you face any righthanded starter, or any lefty starter for that matter and a righty comes in to face your catcher in late and close situations.

It’s utterly fucking ridiculous.

by SeanSchirmer on Feb 21, 2010 3:03 AM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn't normally suggest this to anyone

But you’d better find yourself a new team, because watching this one is going to put you in an early grave.

by SuperT on Feb 21, 2010 11:21 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree 100% with what your saying Sean

“They never plan on ANYTHING. That’s the problem! That is what has me so angry with this regime. Here they were handed two allstars and possible HOF players and quickly added another and have continually filled the other 5 positions with whoever we can over pay or whoever is hanging around at last call. When that is your PLAN this is what you wind up with. If you have a less than ideal player you absolutely MUST match him with someone who provides’ the skill sets the other lacks. To have two less than ideal players who do exactly the same thing is just beyond stupid. If you were re doing your kitchen you wouldn’t hire 2 plumbers and a guy who did a little carpentry and electric 4 years ago would you. Why no one in the Met FO ever looks at what our roster may be like a few years down the road just kills me. Right now the questions that should be asked are Who is our CFer in 2 years? Do we have him or do we need to acquire someone. If Reese Havens can be a high OB decent pop second basemen do we have a guy (Tejada?) who can backup SS and provide late inning lock down D at 2B? Should we be looking to add competition and depth at those positions? Hoping Thole is the sole answer at catcher in a year or 2 is just that, hoping. We should be actively looking for a defensively sound rh hitting catcher to pair with him, and then adding depth behind them both just in case. Having players who compliment each other puts each one in a situation where they can have the most success possible. Having pieces that really fit together well is a big reason why teams win. The draft choices we could have had that we mismanaged in the Alou, Castillo, and Wagner situations could have gone a long way toward answering some of those questions. The lack of planning beyond this year is how we wound up with such an ill conceived roster. The big question is will that ever change?

by t agee on Feb 21, 2010 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

That's a great look ahead, t.

Supporting Thole, but planning for both his success and his failure is exactly, as you say, the kind of thing we should be doing with ALL the roster spots. By the way, since Thole in the minors had virtually no platoon split (20 points better against lefties) in 1500 PAs, why are you thinking a rh hitting complement is the best approach?

by SeanSchirmer on Feb 22, 2010 2:16 AM EST up reply actions  

I really based that on watching him up here last sept.

I wasn’t even aware of his platoon splits in the minors but I’m really an advocate of having 2 or 3 young options at each position and letting them sort themselves out, bringing the best two up and keeping the third for depth, competition or a trade and repeating the process. Whatever his platoon splits are in the minors it’s not likely he will hit lefty’s better than righties up here and having someone who is more advanced behind the plate and has better power would allow the manager to maximize each ones strengths while minimizing their weaknesses.

by t agee on Feb 22, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I criticize the team a lot because the team has screw up the offseason

almost beyond belief. There’s nothing reflexive about it. The moves the Mets made in 2006 were remarkably good and I’ve said so. The moves the Mets made this offseason have been just pitiful. Try to stop blaming the messenger. I’m not the idiot who couldn’t get a single platoon right this offseason.

by SeanSchirmer on Feb 21, 2010 3:00 AM EST up reply actions  

He's not better than Santos in every way.

Santos is a little better hitter versus righties, the pitchers we face 120 times a year and in most relief situations. Also, while it’s difficult to determine catcher defense, Santos seemed a little above average last year.

Look, I think Santos just had his career year and should have been traded for a prospect or package for something—anything—to a GM who doesn’t look much at minor league stats. But when you decide that with all of Henry Blanco’s weaknesses the best thing to do is get his clone (except that his clone just fell off a cliff with the bat), you’ve blown one of the major issues that needed to be resolved this offseason.

by SeanSchirmer on Feb 21, 2010 3:51 AM EST up reply actions  

To analyze the catcher core by offensive measure only

is really not taking into account what was available and what was needed.

by Lunkwill Fook on Feb 21, 2010 1:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Settling for what was available was the result of FO incompetence.

You’re defending the last-ditch grab of a left-left defense-defense platoon, where neither guy can get on base at a .300 clip? Really?

According to the statistics we have catcher defense is less important than any other position. The variation between the best and worst catchers is a dozen runs. In the OF, it’s as much as 35 runs. If you count guys like Adam Dunn and Manny Ramirez it’s higher than that.

What numbers do you think a bad hitting catcher puts up? At what point, if not these, do you consider a catcher’s hitting unacceptable for a team that should be aiming to contend every year?

by SeanSchirmer on Feb 21, 2010 1:18 AM EST up reply actions  

First of all, you keep saying this is a platoon. It’s not. It’s a starting catcher and a backup catcher. So left/right splits doesn’t matter. Barajas, on paper, IS the starting catcher and Blanco is there to rest him and/or be a personal catcher.

And you keep not answering the question. Who was significantly better than Barajas on the FA market who has the durability to be a starting catcher? There were no better options. Is Barajas a GREAT SIGNING? No, he’s merely a decent body. But is he a bad signing for a good defensive catcher at $1 mil plus incentives? Hell no.

By the way, everybody in the stats field will tell you that catching defensive metrics are the least understood and indicative stats out there. So it’s hard to make a judgment on that.

by Lunkwill Fook on Feb 21, 2010 1:25 PM EST up reply actions  

For what it's worth

I think the point is that Barajas is really only an upgrade over Blanco in the number of games he can be expected to play a season, but sense Blanco hits lefties much better than righties, and lefties make up like less than 25% of the pitchers we’d be expected to face, it would have made much more sense to bring in someone who hits righties better so you could leverage/platoon their playing time, so Blanco wouldn’t have a very heavy workload and still get starts when he has the most value to the team. Now there’s really no tactical way to split their time other than when Barajas needs a rest.

"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'

it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.

by Gina on Feb 21, 2010 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

The problem is...

aside from Zaun, there weren’t exactly many left handed catchers out there.

by Syler on Feb 21, 2010 2:44 PM EST up reply actions  

That's why a competent FO diagnoses the problem,

anticipates what’s ahead, and makes Zaun an early offer. This was a thin offseason for catching. Pinning all your hopes on Bengie Molina, who was at the least overpriced, was a terrible idea.

by SeanSchirmer on Feb 22, 2010 2:29 AM EST up reply actions  

I think signing Barajas is making the best out of a bad situation

and therefore we are slightly happy. We still think the FO is incompetent, but at this point this is a good as it gets.

by EtSuKe on Feb 22, 2010 2:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Who was significantly better than Barajas on the free agent market

is not the question. The question is why, year after year, every single weak spot in our line up is only addressed 1 of 4 ways. An expensive, past their prime, free agent, a very old past their prime free agent, a reject someone else is paying to play for us or a trade of prospects that just ensures that we will always have to rely on whoever happens to be on the market in a particular year. Good fit or not.

by t agee on Feb 21, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions  

You're too narrowly defining the meaning of platoon, LF.

On the other hand, another way to put it is that the Mets don’t have a catching platoon simply because the front office doesn’t know how to create one.

Barajas has averaged 94 starts over the last 4 years. Less than that over the last 3. We can call it a job sharing arrangment if you prefer, but there’s no way you want to try to get more than 80 or 90 starts out of Barajas the way the Jays did last year. His numbers got steadily worse the more he played.

“But is he a bad signing for a good defensive catcher at $1 mil plus incentives? Hell no.”

Try it this way: “But is he a bad signing for a good defensive catcher at $1 mil plus incentives who, by they way, had the worst on base percentage of any regular in the majors last year? Hell yes.”

by SeanSchirmer on Feb 22, 2010 2:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh and Barajas is just as good (bad?) against lefties and righties

.300 wOBA vs LHP and .301 wOBA vs. RHP. Last year it was .266 against RHP, but his BABIP was a very low .226, so he should bounce back.

The reason his career wOBA doesn’t match is lower than both his splits, is because the splits only go back to 2002 while he career total goes back 1999.

by Evan_S on Feb 21, 2010 4:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Visually...

…it’d look just like RBI Baseball, with all those rectangle-shaped neckless guys shuffling around.

by David Roth on Feb 21, 2010 11:50 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Might it be a defensive upgrade over Castillo?

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 21, 2010 11:23 PM EST up reply actions  

who do we throw over there at 2B

Coste with Blanco at SS for our DP, Santos in CF until Beltran comes back

by Rickfansince76 on Feb 25, 2010 12:14 AM EST up reply actions  

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