all-NL east team
by Rickfansince76 on Feb 25, 2010 8:59 AM EST
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I saw this on another site and thought it was interesting. Just out of the NL east what would be the best team of players. I am going by th edepth charts on yahoo for positions
C-Brian McCann, John Baker, Rod Barajas, Carlos Ruiz, Pudge Rodriguez
1B-Troy Glaus, Jorge Cantu, Daniel Murphy, Ryan Howard, Adam Dunn
2B-Omar Infante, Dan Uggla, Luis Castillo, Chase Utley, Christian Guzman
3B- Chipper Jones, Emilio Bonifacio, David Wright, Placido Polanco, Ryan Zimmerman
SS- Yunel Escobar, Hanley Ramirez, Jose Reyes, Jimmy Rollins, ian Desmond
RF- Matt Diaz, Cody Ross, Jeff Francouer, Jason Werth, Elijah Dukes
CF- Nate McLouth, Cameron Maybin, Carlos Beltran, Shane Victorino, Willie Harris
LF- Melky Cabrera, Chris Coghlan, Jason Bay, Raul Ibanez, Josh Willingham
SP - Derek Lowe, Josh Johnson, Johan Santana, Roy Halladay, John Lannan
RP- Billy Wagner, Leo Nunez, K-rod, Brad Lidge, Matt Capps
My All-NL east team would be
C- McCann
1B- Howard
2B- Utley
3B- Wright
SS- Hanley
Rf- Werth
CF- Beltran
LF- Bay
SP- Halladay barely over Santana
RP- K-Rod
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hate to say it
but i think i’d throw zimmerman up there ahead of wright. and if wright can’t get it together this year, than it’s no contest.
"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell
eh
It depends pretty much entirely on whether Wright’s power comes back or not. He was worth 4.9, 4.6, 7.8, & 6.1 WAR from 2005-2008, before falling off the cliff last year to the tune of a 2.4 WAR. Zimmerman was worth 2.4, 3.1, 1.0, 5.2 WAR over the past 4 years. Zimmerman’s a very, very good player, but he’s only two years younger than Wright and has been worth less WAR at every age than Wright was worth. Maybe Zimmerman will keep getting better, but I think it’s just as good a bet that Wright will rebound to ~6 WAR this year, in which case he’ll most likely be better than Zimmerman again.
2009 Did Not Happen
one year of zimmerman over like three, four years of wright? alright, then
John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.
Well...
for the Braves, Omar Infante won’t be our starting 2nd baseman, Martin Prado will, Matt Diaz won’t be in right field, most likely Jason Heyward will, left will be a platoon of Diaz and Cabrera, and Lowe probably won’t be the #1.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Ummm
Lineup: McCann, Howard, Utley, Wright, Ramirez, Dicktorino (LF, sue me), Beltran, Werth
Rotation: Halladay, Santana, Johnson, Nolasco, Jurrjens
Closer: Billy Wagner
"For $11.4 million you can actually get a good player. But of course this is one of the things foolish organizations do: They complain that they can't afford good players after spending millions of dollars on not-good players." --Rob Neyer
Hmmm....
1st: Ryan Howard
2nd: Chase Utley
3rd: David Wright
Short: Hanley Ramirez
Catcher: Brian McCann
Rotation: Johan Santana, Roy Halladay, Josh Johnson, Tommy Hanson, Jair “Francoise” Jurrjens (What an awesome name. It gets better every time)
Closer: Billy Wagner (There isn’t a single closer in the entire division that I’d be very confident with! Amazing!)
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 25, 2010 12:02 PM EST reply actions
I'd have gone for some groundball pitchers,
Since you aren’t fielding an outfield.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 25, 2010 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
Ha! Didn't even realize.
I went back like three times, changing position listings from 2, 3, 4, etc., to 1b, 2b, 3d, to 1st, 2nd, 3rd, I didn’t even realize. I have a bunch of K power pitchers, though; who needs an outfield.
Left: Jason Bay
Center: Carlos Beltran
Right: Jason Werth
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 25, 2010 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
I just couldn't pass that up
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 25, 2010 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
uh
C: McCann
1B: Larry Jones
2B: Utley
SS: Reyes
3B: Zimmerman
LF: Bay
CF: Hanley
RF: Beltran
SP: Halladay
SP: Santana
SP: Strasburg
SP: Johnson
SP: Nolasco
Strasburg at #3?
That’s awfully optimistic. You think, right now, he’s a better pitcher than Cole Hamels?
2009 Did Not Happen
2009 Larry isn't
but pre 2009 Larry was, and it really wasn’t even close. Howard is an above average first basemen, Larry is “an only see a few of these players a decade” type player. In 2008 Larry had an obp of .470, which is just silly. the man got on base in almost 50% of his plate appearances, and he actually out slugged Howard by about 30 slugging points too.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
And if we discussed this a year ago
I’d agree, but Chipper was mediocre compared to Howard last year.
Yeah just last year
in what was Chippers worst year since his rookie season by a huge margin, some of which can be contributed to age but some of which can also be contributed to bad luck, and what was Howards be. As far as I can tell this isn’t 2009 NL-East, plus Howards been pretty up and down and it’s entirely possible Chipper could end up being more valuable than him again next year, maybe even likely. But unless this is specifically 2009 NL east all-star, and if it was Wright, Reyes and Santana would have much arguments, and obviously neither would Strasburg, Howard has little to no argument over Chipper.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Little to no argument?
CHONE disagrees. Howard at 4.4, Chipper at 3.8.
And if you move Chipper to 1B, that hurts his value a lot (subtracting ~14 runs due to positional adjustment, and there’s no way he makes all of the up with improved 1B defense.)
Um I'm not sure you read what I wrote
I didn’t say little to no argument for 2010, I said little to no argument over the course of their time in the NL East, so when Howard came up till now, it’s not even close. Hence why I specifically said if it was just based on 2009 and 2010 Santana probably wouldn’t be a lock as #2 in the rotation.
And if you move Chipper over the last few years to first base he’s still well above Howard, as until last year he was better offensively every year and it it’s not even close. Howard has been a solid first basemen offensively, Chipper has been a Hof worthy offensive player, for any position.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
any evidence to back that up?
come on Sam Page, it’s not like you to make a bold claim purely off opinions and scouting reports.
Probably the best comp for Strasburg is Mark Prior, and while Prior dominated the minors and pitched pretty damn well as a rookie, he wasn’t as good as Hamels was two or three years ago. It wasn’t until his second season that Prior became an ace (a short-lived one, at that). I don’t doubt that Strasburg’s gonna be really good, but I’d like to at least see him face professional hitters before I call him better than a guy who was over 4 WAR two of the past 3 years.
2009 Did Not Happen
Hamels has only been a 4+ win pitcher once, in 2008.
He’s never had a season in the bigs with a tERA under 3.98, an xFIP under 3.51, or an FIP under 3.72. He’s a good pitcher, but I think his 2008 postseason makes people think more highly of him than they actually should.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 25, 2010 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think Hamels is a superstar by any stretch
and I think you’re right, he got overrated based on the 2008 postseason. That said, Strasburg has NEVER PITCHED A PROFESSIONAL INNING – I’d rather overrate a guy based on MLB Playoffs than based on dominance at San Diego State. Strasburg is probably going to be a very good pitcher, but he could also be the next Matt Anderson or Paul Wilson. Hamels isn’t a superstar, but he’s a dependable #2 starter who still has some upside. If I was putting a team together for just this year, I’d take him over Strasburg in a heartbeat.
2009 Did Not Happen
I would too, but I could definitely see putting Hanson or Strasburg in front of him.
There’s at least some reason to believe either of them could put together a Lincecum-esque campaign.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 25, 2010 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
Love the Strasburg pick
And I like your thinking with Larry and Hanley too. The Bay pick sucks though.
"For $11.4 million you can actually get a good player. But of course this is one of the things foolish organizations do: They complain that they can't afford good players after spending millions of dollars on not-good players." --Rob Neyer
by boom_roasted on Feb 26, 2010 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
Given the other NL East Left Fielders, who's better?
Melky Cabrera? No. He was a True Yankee, though, which is something Bay will never be.
Chris Coghlan? Not really. If you compare their WAR totals from last season, he was worth 2.3 WAR, as compared to Bay’s 3.5 WAR (from Fangraphs). Looking to next season, Coughlan is being projected by CHONE to be worth 2.4 WAR, as opposed to Bay’s 4.0 WAR.
Raul Ibanez? Maybe. Using WAR comparisons again, Ibanez had a better 2009 than Bay (4.3), but Bay is being projected to have a better 2010 than Ibanez. So, that’s up in the air, as far as seeing if Ibanez can keep it up, and seeing if Bay reacts negatively to the Mets.
Josh Willingham? No.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 26, 2010 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
That's using everyone at their most current "given positions", of course.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 26, 2010 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
Which isn't what Sam did...
Bay is probably the best left fielder in the NL East, but if you are shifting positions around, I would definitely leave him off the team.
"For $11.4 million you can actually get a good player. But of course this is one of the things foolish organizations do: They complain that they can't afford good players after spending millions of dollars on not-good players." --Rob Neyer
by boom_roasted on Feb 28, 2010 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
Right; If we're shifting people around, "anything goes", hence my clarification at the end of my post there.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Mar 1, 2010 12:47 AM EST up reply actions
I hope you are talking offensively. Defensively, Bay is probably the worst, or at least, in the conversation.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Mar 1, 2010 9:08 AM EST up reply actions
I would imagine he means all together
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Yes. That would be exactly what I mean.
"For $11.4 million you can actually get a good player. But of course this is one of the things foolish organizations do: They complain that they can't afford good players after spending millions of dollars on not-good players." --Rob Neyer
by boom_roasted on Mar 1, 2010 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
"as far as seeing if Ibanez can keep it up"
Which is, of course, an important consideration at his advanced age.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Feb 26, 2010 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
His defense also looks like an outlier more than newfound skill, at least in my eyes.
Bay at least had a fairly normal season there (by his standards) last year.
Pinella: Where th f*ck was that pitch at?
Ump: Don't you know that you're not supposed to end a sentence with a preposition?
Pinella: Where the f*ck was that pitch at, a$$h*le?
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 26, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
Move Victorino or Werth, probably Werth
He moved Beltran to rf and Hanley to center so it seems like it would be within the parameters.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Victorino could be worth 20 WAR next year and I'd still leave him off my team.
His deuche above replacement level still wouldn’t have been cancelled out.
Pinella: Where th f*ck was that pitch at?
Ump: Don't you know that you're not supposed to end a sentence with a preposition?
Pinella: Where the f*ck was that pitch at, a$$h*le?
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 26, 2010 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
just weird
with Hanley in CF, Jones at 1B and SDtrasburg who hasnt thrown an inning yet
by Rickfansince76 on Feb 28, 2010 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
Some tough calls there
C: McCann
1B: Howard
2B: Utley
SS: Reyes
3B: Wright
LF: Bay
CF: Beltran
RF: Hanley
Rotation: Halladay/Santana/Johnson/Hamels/Nolasco
Closer: K-Rod
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 25, 2010 12:35 PM EST reply actions
Since people are moving Hanley to the outfield
Why not just throw Wright in left. He’s a better hitter than Bay and he can’t be worse defensively.
C: McCann
1B: Howard
2B: Utley
SS: Reyes
3B: Zimmerman
LF: Wright
CF: Hanley
RF: Beltran
Rotation: Halladay/Santana/Johnson/Nolasco/Hamels
Closer: K-Rod
I wasn't taking age into consideration, so I leaned towards Bay/Wright over Zimmerman/Wright because of the chance that last year was an outlier.
I almost moved Wright to first and stuck Zimmerman at third, Reynolds and Zimmerman are two guys I really want to watch this year, but I’m staying away from them in my fantasy leagues.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 25, 2010 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
I think 2008 for Zimmerman was the outlier
He was a 5 WAR player in 2007 and 7 last year. Even though he is likely to regress from last year, he’s still a phenomenal fielder, better than Wright could ever be.
where are you getting those WAR numbers?
according to baseballprojection he was 3.1 in ’07 and 5.2 last year
2009 Did Not Happen
Look at his totalzone numbers
They don’t have him at much better than an average 3rd baseman.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 25, 2010 8:58 PM EST up reply actions
I'm too lazy to put thought into this, so I'll put my REAL dream team instead...
C: Wright
1B: Wright
2B: Wright
SS: Wright
3B: Wright
LF: Wright
CF: Wright
RF: Wright
Rotation: Wright/Wright/Wright/OliverPerez/Wright
Closer: Wright
Yes.
by wrightttxgirlllx3 on Feb 25, 2010 3:46 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
Baseball Bugs (The greatest Bugs cartoon ever)
“Attention, please. Attention. There’s been a slight change in the Tea-Totaler line-up. Catching, Bugs Bunny. Left field, Bugs Bunny. Right field, Bugs Bunny. Pitching, Bugs Bunny…”
The Gashouse Gorillas have grisson. And, Bugs Bunny is the ultimate utility man.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 25, 2010 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
Recced for having Ollie as your 4th starter
You don't cheer for the Mets. You drink for the Mets.
Big mistake.
Ollie will kill that pitching staff’s ERA.
by SeanSchirmer on Feb 25, 2010 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
This seems pretty cut and dried.
C: McCann
1B: Howard
2B: Utley
3B: Dubs
SS: Ramirez
LF: Bay
CF: Beltran
RF: Werth
Rotation: Halladay, Johan, Johnson, Hanson, Nolasco
Closer: Wagner
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