Sorry Folks.
by Sam Page on Feb 26, 2010 9:10 PM EST
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PrintI can't spin this one. Felipe Lopez signed for less than Alex Cora. Maybe he just really likes St. Louis, but it is hard to imagine the Cardinals have more playing time at secondbase and money to offer than the Mets. On the brightside, there's a decent chance Castillo has the better season, but I always prefer the defensively superior player up the middle.
In other news, the Mets may sign Joe Beimel. He's not bad. He also said once said this:
'You're on my fantasy team! Throw me a ball!' " It's like, c'mon. We both know I'm not on your team.
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At least I can stop hoping for Lopez now.
But wow, that is a tough one to swallow. The Castillo/Lopez argument isn’t that big of a deal (I’d much rather have Lopez but Castillo won’t have negative value) but paying more to Cora is just indefensible.
Amazing Beimel quote. Bring him in for that alone.
It won't be indefensible
when Cora is signaling defensive alignments while Manuel twiddles his thumbs and asks the players how they’re spirits are feeling.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
lol
Can we maybe free the roster spot when Omar finally fires Jerry by promoting him to manager?
You really think he'll be any better a manager than a player?
by BobbyV_Incognito on Feb 27, 2010 1:48 AM EST up reply actions
Weren't most good managers crappy players?
That’s a point in his favor!
Yeah, but I suspect Cora wouldn't be much better than Jerry.
Nothing really to support this, but something about him makes me think he’d be a smallball, sac bunt type of manager.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Feb 27, 2010 1:52 AM EST up reply actions
Good point
Don’t want a slap-hitting middle infielder as manager.
That would be like hiring Willie Randolph again.
Most of the good managers were catchers.
Whitey Herzog played outfield.
Davey Johnson was a 2B,
but he at least juiced up at jacked 43 HR one year.
I can deal with the smallball style manager
He’d need to do several other things better than Jerry though
-Understand platoon splits
-Manage a bullpen properly
-Don’t put players in the doghouse because the Mets can’t manage injuries
-Don’t force players to rush back from injury to stay out of the doghouse
-Actually give young players a chance
Pinella: Where th f*ck was that pitch at?
Ump: Don't you know that you're not supposed to end a sentence with a preposition?
Pinella: Where the f*ck was that pitch at, a$$h*le?
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 27, 2010 2:53 AM EST up reply actions
it's amazing how low our standards are
I mean, it’s really astounding that Jerry can’t do something as simple as “pedro is a lefty who can’t get righties out, matt diaz is a righty who’s only purpose in life is to anally rape lefties with no love or lube, I should take Pedro out” I mean Is his gut on crystal meth?
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
I'm sure he felt like Pedro wasn't getting enough work.
It’s not like we had any righties in the pen that rarely if ever got used anyway.
Pinella: Where th f*ck was that pitch at?
Ump: Don't you know that you're not supposed to end a sentence with a preposition?
Pinella: Where the f*ck was that pitch at, a$$h*le?
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 27, 2010 3:11 AM EST up reply actions
I mean the bars set pretty low
he’d have to be pretty bad to be a worse manager than he is a player at this point.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
You have to consider value over replacement
He has to be a better player than Castillo
Or a better manager than Manuel
Now how many people can you think of who wouldn’t be able to accomplish at least one of those things?
Beimel
is perfect for the Mets. Didn’t he cut his hand on a glass in his hotel room before the ’06 playoffs against (ironically enough) the Mets?
He was a boy of soft demeanor
And he loved his caburetor cleaner
Lopez was undervalued because he was released by the Nationals once.
Plus there was a flood of second basemen on the market this season.
www.twitter.com/willDavidian
by All Shook Down on Feb 26, 2010 9:57 PM EST up reply actions
Also extreme market collapse due to the economy
the last 2 years, Piniero only got 2/16, 2 or 3 years ago he might have gotten 4/56, Hudson only got 5 million. I’m not sure Lopez’s price dropping is that shocking.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
1.75 million
Maybe you’re right, but that seems pretty cheap. What do you think will happen with Pujols? The chatter from the org is that they’ll sign him unless the number is crazy. I think he gave them a bit of a discount last time. Now Heyman i think is talking about 30 million/year. Part of the reasoning is ARod’s contract. There are going to be some nice 1st base sluggers in the next few years.
I don't think Pujols would make outrageous demands like that
And Heyman is always full of crap. He was expecting Hudson to get 5/85 last off-season, Lowe to get like 4/72, Ollie to get like 4/60 and Tex to get like 10/200. But anyway as long as St. Louis shows they’re willing to spend to bring in talent I don’t see any reason Pujols would walk, he seems to want to stay there.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Besides, 30/year is just outrageous.
No team could afford that, and still put a competitive team on the field each season. Well, maybe the Yankees, but with all the other huge salaries they’re already paying, even they would probably bat an eye at that demand.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Feb 27, 2010 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sure he's better than Castillo, it doesn't really take much.
I doubt he’s actually as good as he played last year, but he’s likely better than his 2008 Castillo-esque performance. Hopefully he tears it up this year, as St. Louis will likely focus on Albert next winter and he’ll be available again.
Pinella: Where th f*ck was that pitch at?
Ump: Don't you know that you're not supposed to end a sentence with a preposition?
Pinella: Where the f*ck was that pitch at, a$$h*le?
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 27, 2010 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
meh
I’m not really concerned or interested in him as a long term option. He just would have been nice now.
He might be a decent target next year
$6 million Castillo-bucks is a lot easier to eat than twice that much. If Tejada and Havens aren’t quite ready, even if they’re getting close, adding Lopez as insurance and giving him the opening day job over Castillo makes some sense. If Tejada or Havens force themselves into the picture and have a month or so of big league success, then the Mets can eat the less than a full year of Castillo’s contract and Lopez can become an excellent reserve player.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Feb 27, 2010 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
I'm dumbfounded
What in the H—- is wrong with this team. The wilpons are IDIOTS. These are the guys who didn’t want to sign Piazza, Omar and JM’s jobs are on the line I can;t imagine a scenario with them telling the wilpons not spend 2M to sign lopez, AND Why bother adding another SP or a decent !B to platoon with Murphy. The owners are burdened with a lot of crappy contracts therefore they have refused to make any intelligent moves to improve the team, Wake up /1 yr contracts are not a burden, there a bargain if you have any intention of competing. Obviously the wilpons believe this team has little chance of competing in 2010/.maybe they are saving their money for 2011. So maybe the fans should save their money too by not going to citi field.
maybe the mets just see themselves
as already having two backup infielders making this much money. misguided or not, lopez didn’t ever really seem to be on the front office’s radar. its probably worth noting he’s not that good of a player. there are a lot of reasons to think the front office of this team is helpless, that we weren’t the only team in all of mlb to show genuine interest in felipe lopez isn’t one of them.
On his property, Mr. Frazier has created a number of places to unwind — or as he said, "just chill."
by inventor frank on Feb 26, 2010 10:44 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
We are paying more for a guy who had negative value than a guy who was worth 4 plus wins last year
That’s indefensible
I doubt we were his first choice even if we were in on him.
At least in St. Louis he’s got a pretty clear path to playing time, and much more likely to reach his incentives. Here he’d have to worry if Jerry would actually let him see the field over Castillo. At that price he’d have been a great signing, but I’d be happier if they signed Kiko Calero and either Mahay or Beimel.
Pinella: Where th f*ck was that pitch at?
Ump: Don't you know that you're not supposed to end a sentence with a preposition?
Pinella: Where the f*ck was that pitch at, a$$h*le?
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 27, 2010 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
The problem with that is
there’s no reason he should have had to fight his way into starting if we had signed him. It’s basically excusing not signing him for that price because they’re too dumb to play him anyway, which isn’t really a good excuse. And at that price there’s no reason we shouldn’t have been able to sign him. There’s also no reason that signing him should have anything to do with them from signing or not signing Calero/Mahay/or Beimel.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
I don't think he would have come here for that price (and I'm curious how much the incentives can add up to).
St. Louis is a place that he supposedly enjoyed playing, and he’s got a much easier chance to get regular playing time. Not that 3 million would have been a bad deal for us, but it’s not like we don’t have a guy thats capable of playing 2nd base now. Lopez was definitely my first choice if we had been able to move Castillo, but if he’s still on the books I’d just as soon play him and see if he can’t establish enough value to be moved next offseason. I’d rather see us take a crack at a reliever who could push an ineffective guy like Green off the roster than Lopez given the way things played out.
Pinella: Where th f*ck was that pitch at?
Ump: Don't you know that you're not supposed to end a sentence with a preposition?
Pinella: Where the f*ck was that pitch at, a$$h*le?
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 27, 2010 12:25 AM EST up reply actions
You can afford both though
Castillo’s value will never be higher than it already is now, and will only drop as his offense likely comes down a little and his defense continues it’s inevitable decline.
The Mets are too cheap and stupid to admit mistakes; Castillo was one, and while you didn’t have to release him, you don’t just hand him the job because he’s making $6 million dollars.
Signing Lopez may not have put us over the top, but it certainly would’ve made us a better team.
His value won't likely be higher, but the risk will be far less when he's in the last year of his contract.
Playing him should give him a chance to show if he can again be slightly below average, where benching him drops his value to zero. If I really believed Lopez was a 4+ win guy than I’d be all for it, I just don’t believe that. Two of the last three years he was worth less than 1 WAR, and I think his career high UZR mark is making us overvalue him. Plus/Minus doesn’t agree with his good defensive year, they have him at exactly 0.
I think he’s likely to be such a marginal upgrade that he’s probably not worth it if we’re not going all in for 2010. We really look like a fringe contender at best, so Lopez probably isn’t going to be the guy that puts us over the top. Had we gotten a guy like Piniero or Wolf he’d have made alot more sense, but we have so many question marks I’d personally rather see us play Castillo at this point and see if we can’t find a taker for him next year that will pay even part of his contract.
Pinella: Where th f*ck was that pitch at?
Ump: Don't you know that you're not supposed to end a sentence with a preposition?
Pinella: Where the f*ck was that pitch at, a$$h*le?
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 27, 2010 12:46 AM EST up reply actions
I don't see how he's more likely to take Brendan Ryans job
than Castillos. I’d say he has a much better chance here. And I’d disagree about Castillo being able to play second base, when you post a 10+ in UZR and +/ I think you’ve officially gotten to the point where you’re a second basemen in name only.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
stupid strike through
that’s supposed to be -10 in uzr and plus/minus
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
They have a starting infield of David Freese, Skip Shumaker, and Brandon Ryan.
We have Wright, Reyes, and Castillo. We also have a jackass manager who’s shown in the past that he doesn’t play guys he doesn’t like, and Lopez has a reputation that fits the anti-Jerry mold. Lopez’s only real shot at regular playing time here is if he’s the starting 2nd baseman. Keep in mind also that Lopez has only played regularly at 2nd for 2 seasons, and he was at Castillo levels of suck defensively for one of them.
Pinella: Where th f*ck was that pitch at?
Ump: Don't you know that you're not supposed to end a sentence with a preposition?
Pinella: Where the f*ck was that pitch at, a$$h*le?
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 27, 2010 12:55 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not saying I don't think I'd start him over Castillo, I would.
I’m not sure Jerry would though, and unfortunately it ends up being on his shoulders.
Pinella: Where th f*ck was that pitch at?
Ump: Don't you know that you're not supposed to end a sentence with a preposition?
Pinella: Where the f*ck was that pitch at, a$$h*le?
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 27, 2010 12:58 AM EST up reply actions
I don't really think it ends up being on his shoulders
I imagine upper management has a lot of say.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
The effect on Cora could be a real negative to the team going forward as well.
The Mets are already looking like a less than desireable location. I can’t see how signing Alex Cora in the begining of the offseason and then relegating him to AAA or cutting him will help in future negotiations with anyone. It would definitely help the team in 2010, but going forward it may cause real harm to our reputation with guys that could potentially be bench players/minor league deal types. Once again, if we were really looking like a legitimate world series contender this year it might be worth it, but we just don’t. I hate the Cora signing as much as anyone, but we really might be better off riding it out. If we’re in contention at the midway point, we can certainly make a move if needed. At least that way we show some commitment to the guys Omar should not have signed and hopefully don’t damage the Mets as a potential location any more.
Pinella: Where th f*ck was that pitch at?
Ump: Don't you know that you're not supposed to end a sentence with a preposition?
Pinella: Where the f*ck was that pitch at, a$$h*le?
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 27, 2010 1:09 AM EST up reply actions
This argument is a real stretch
Cora sucks at baseball, that’s all that matters regarding him and how we treat him. Worrying about how we treat him and if any future potential free agents look at that is being way too oversensitive. Most teams try to field the best team possible, players know this going in. Guys are often signed, then demoted or cut. You can’t worry about crap like that. A worse offense is not admitting when you made a mistake. That’s way more damaging.
by Mackey Sasser on Mar 1, 2010 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
Guys are rarely ever signed early in the offseason and then cut before the season starts.
I really can’t see why you’d think free agents wouldn’t look at something like that when choosing a destination, espescially guys who’d be primarily bench players. It’s one thing to do that to a guy who’s performed poorly for the first part of his deal, it’s a completely different thing to do that to a guy you just signed.
Pinella: Where th f*ck was that pitch at?
Ump: Lou, don't you know that you're not supposed to end a sentence with a preposition?
Pinella: Where the f*ck was that pitch at, a$$h*le?
by Stephen Schmidt on Mar 1, 2010 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
Also
Failing to sign other impact players shouldn’t be an excuse for failing to sign a cheap solution. You can’t excuse one mistake because it’s not as bad because they made bigger mistakes before it.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Can we EVER eat a bad contract?
I don’t want to be like the Yankees, I really don’t. But just once, can we see that the organization senses the urgency of the situation. We were told that money was not going to be the issue.
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
Wow, it's a good thing that we offered Cora a flat $2 million dollars again basically as soon as the off-season started!
Imagine where we might be without him!
Geeze, $1.75 million dollars… :: Shakes head ::
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 26, 2010 11:45 PM EST reply actions
Don't tell Mr. Met
He might end it all and ask Francouer to bash his head in. Fortunately Flailcouer will miss repeatedly averting disaster.
Check out further down in Heyman's twitter page...
folks in #mets camp still buzzing about how great oliver perez looked throwing BP yest. pitching coach warthen: “75 percent strikes”
Pinella: Where th f*ck was that pitch at?
Ump: Don't you know that you're not supposed to end a sentence with a preposition?
Pinella: Where the f*ck was that pitch at, a$$h*le?
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 27, 2010 12:37 AM EST reply actions
That is a pretty decent ratio.
If that was a real game, and he threw 100 pitches, let’s say, he’d have 75 strikes, and 25 balls. That’s a 3 to 1 ratio.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 27, 2010 12:40 AM EST up reply actions
Lol that was my thought
I can’t believe anything he says.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Isn't this the year of the clipboards?
I want to assume that he’s writing down everything, like everyone is supposed to be, and that he’s not just randomly remembering things using rosy colored glasses.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 27, 2010 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
b-but
Alex Cora is being paid to be the two million dollar frown machine… I’m just not sure if Felipe Lopez has enough frown in him to be worth two million.
Travis Hafner is made of gold
I mean why was Cora signed the first effing day?
Were there a bunch of teams wanting to give him $2 million, or was Omar just bidding against himself? And would not signing Alex Cora be that bad?
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
What do you think?
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 27, 2010 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
Well
So much for my manny-esque rally for lopez. You snooze you lose.
by Mike Clemente on Feb 27, 2010 1:20 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I can't say I'm shocked
He would have been an excellent pickup at this price, but I do think he’ll have more opportunity for playing time in St. Louis. He can play all over for them, its hard to imagine he won’t find a spot in the lineup virtually every day. With the Mets, he still has to beat out Castillo for playing time, perhaps likely, but not a sure thing, and he’s not even a sure thing to be a whole lot better than Castillo. If this were 2011, and Castillo had just one year remaining, maybe you can justify eating his contract, but he’s not so bad that calling $12 million sunk cost makes sense.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Feb 27, 2010 1:48 PM EST reply actions
The point of sunk cost
is you really can’t worry about that 12 million. It’s gone. We’re not getting proper value for that. If the replacement performs better than Castillo would’ve, and Lopez almost assuredly would have, then that’s all that matters. An extra 1.75 mil for 3 added wins is a no brainer. If they were really concerned about Luis’ contract, the move to make would have been to cut Cora outright and keep Luis as a back-up type who plays once or twice a week and could pinch hit to lead off an inning or something.
by Mackey Sasser on Mar 1, 2010 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
It's not a guarentee it's 3 added wins though
it could be anywhere from .5-3 added wins given Lopez’s history, and it’s more likely to fall on the .5 side.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
As of last year it would be 3 added wins,
but the two previous years combined he wasn’t even worth 1.5 wins by himself. He’s hardly a guaranteed 3 win gain, he’s not even a sure thing to be better than Castillo.
Pinella: Where th f*ck was that pitch at?
Ump: Lou, don't you know that you're not supposed to end a sentence with a preposition?
Pinella: Where the f*ck was that pitch at, a$$h*le?
by Stephen Schmidt on Mar 1, 2010 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
That's not really accurate
First, as Gina and Schmidt point out, its not 3 added wins. Lopez has had some awful years, and a couple really good ones. He’s only projected as a 0.8 WAR upgrade over Castillo by CHONE.
Even besides that, accepting Castillo as sunk cost would be if we were just talking about 2010, but we’re also talking about 2011. Cutting Castillo means losing another $3-4 million in production value, he’s not a negative value player, and the Mets would have no one under contract to play in 2011. Including this, total cost per win of cutting Castillo and carrying Lopez and Cora would have been higher than the cost per win of just going with Cora and Castillo. It would have amounted to buying about 0.8 wins at well above the market rate.
Cutting Cora makes theoretical sense, but practically speaking, it would be somewhat unprecedented, to sign a free agent to a guaranteed, multi-million dollar major league contract and cut him before spring training. Cora was a mistake from the beginning. If the Mets had simply let the leadership thing go and correctly assumed that Anderson Hernandez could give them virtually the same thing production-wise, Lopez would have been a lot more realistic this late in the game. But it didn’t seem he’d be nearly so cheap until at least February, the Mets had no way of assuming they’d be players in that market, as it would not have made sense to be players for a guy like Lopez if he’s costing $4+ million even for just one year. I also seriously wonder if all of Castillo’s remaining value would be virtually wiped out if he were a bench player. He doesn’t have much tactical PH value, except maybe leading off innings. He’s certainly not someone you call on in a situation like runners on first and second with one out. He’s probably more likely to hit into a double-play than hit a ball well enough for the runner to score from second. And he’s too miserable defensively to weight his playing time that way.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Mar 1, 2010 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
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