Jerry says Escobar likely to start season on DL
Escobar will make $1.25 million in base salary next season, in addition to a $125,000 bonus if he makes the Opening Day roster. Escobar can also receive up to $2 million in incentives based on games pitched, and an extra $1 million based on games finished. So, I guess Omar will be happy because we saved $125,000.
about 2 years ago
fxcarden
48 comments
0 recs |
Email
PrintComments
Well, we're saving money, I guess...
And, that lets us carry an extra pitcher (Figueroa & Nieve, or Nieve & Takahashi, or Figueroa and Takahashi, etc.), so…
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 27, 2010 7:42 PM EST reply actions
we should have never spent money on Escobar in the first place.
you know what I'm sayin' ?
by fxcarden on Feb 27, 2010 9:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
rec'ed, just cuz
"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell
Nah. He's like the definition of moderate-risk, high-reward
Firstly, a million dollars or so should really be peanuts that, as a club, doesn’t hurt us all that much, and Escobar shouldn’t be a guy we rely on too much. Sadly, that’s not the case. But, if we sign him, and things work out, in, say, the best case scenario, and he becomes half the guy he used to be, we have a pretty decent pitcher on our hands, for not all that much.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 27, 2010 11:32 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah the problem wasn't signing escobar
it was not bringing in any concrete bullpen pieces, and spending 1.25 million when you apparently were deciding to be tight with the purse strings.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
I think the problem is
There’s virtually no such thing as a “concrete” bullpen piece. There are the upper level closers, and then a bunch of way overpaid mid-level guys, and then a bunch of surprise years from guys who got paid virtually nothing. What was the approach the team should have taken to the pen? Signed LaTroy Hawkins, Brandon Lyon, or Fernando Rodney to a multi-year deal? They could have gambled on Takahashi Saito, but his age and injury risk offset the degree to which he’s a known quantity.
I really like the approach taken to the bullpen this year. None of the guys returning from last year are going to kill them, and Feliciano and Parnell could both be quite good. Igarashi’s got lots of upside too. I like that they’re taking a look at Niesen. Green’s not great, but he’s useful. if Nieve doesn’t make the rotation, it looks like he’ll be seriously considered for the bullpen. I’m not sure how they could have more effectively spent their money on bullpen building. There’s potential for this to be a solid group at a very low cost and with very little future commitment if any parts of it don’t work out.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Feb 28, 2010 4:01 AM EST up reply actions
I disagree, Mark.
The bullpen has a lot of concrete. Some of it isn’t even padded.
you know what I'm sayin' ?
I also think that
they have added a lot of depth to the bullpen. Lowry and Dickey could also be bullpen guys. This may mean Escobar is back later in the season and could have an effective second half (unproven optimism).
I'm with you 100% on that Mark
The thing I really like about it is that there are really no expensive long term commitments there, K-rod aside. I wouldn’t even mind the K-rod deal if not for that ridiculous option. If Feliciano and Escobar perform fairly well the Mets could certainly have the chance to gain some draft picks for those guys if they don’t simply come back on 1 year deals. I think Calero would be a great gamble at this point because of that, as his stats from last year should push him into compensatory pick range with even an average season this year. I really like the thought process behind this year’s bullpen much more than in years past.
Pinella: Where th f*ck was that pitch at?
Ump: Lou, don't you know that you're not supposed to end a sentence with a preposition?
Pinella: Where the f*ck was that pitch at, a$$h*le?
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 28, 2010 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
so let me get this right
so if he reaches his incentives he can earn $5 million next year? That’s a terrible contract.
Yeah I agreed that was my other biggest problem with the contract
that’s way too much for set up man.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
well im sure if he met those incentives
he would probably be a starter and not a set-up man. He’s a bullpen piece for now because really it’s unknown if he can pitch injury-free.
No most of the incentives
were for games finished and total appearances, I don’t think he had to get anywhere near starter type innings to meet at least 3.5 million worth.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
But he did have to finish a significant number of games to reach the full incentives
Which only happens if K-Rod gets injured for a significant period, in which case K-Rod’s option very likely wouldn’t vest, so the cost is more than made up for.
As it is, even if he just misses a month, he likely won’t get to $3.5 mil. And even if he does, that’s really not a significant cost. Your arguments are about how the Mets were apparently being over-frugal this offseason, but I disagree. I think they spent some money, and even if they hadn’t signed the Alex Cora’s and Kelvim Escobars, they may not have increased their price ceilings on guys like Lackey, Piniero, or Lopez, and probably would have wound up missing out on them anyway. I’m not necessarily saying I disagree with you that they should have pursued these guys stronger, but I don’t think Escobar really got in the way.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Feb 28, 2010 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
Oh I'm not trying to say Escobar got in the way
I’m saying their philosophy makes no sense. if you’re willing to pay up to 2-3 million for a reliever, and 1 million just on a flier even if he never pitches, then there’s no reason they shouldn’t be willing to pay the pretty small contracts, almost similar money, for possible upgrades at 2nd and 1st. I don’t mean that Escobar had anything to do with them not pursuing them more just that their approach and where they were and weren’t wiling to spend more money made no sense.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
I'm not sure that's a philosophical problem
So much as a disagreement in player evaluation. They just don’t like the guys who were available, and though I disagree with them on many counts, I understand why. They could have played the backup MI market more slowly and gotten a great deal on Lopez, but entering the offseason, you had to assume he was going to get more money, and I wouldn’t have wanted to plan to give him that money anyway, especially with all the money dedicated to Castillo. Signing Cora so quickly was clearly the biggest mistake of the offseason, because after that, they seemed to decide they were done with middle infielders unless they could move Castillo.
As for first base, it wasn’t a terribly deep market. I’m not at all upset about Adam LaRoche. He’s not a $4.5 million upgrade over Murphy. He’s barely worth $4.5 million over a replacement level player. Branyan would have been nice, but he’s exactly the kind of guy the sabermetric community tends to love while other methods of evaluation don’t. Beyond those two, the Mets clearly don’t want to overcommit to the position, they feel they can fill it out internally over the long term, most likely with Ike Davis.
The only other place they could have upgraded significantly that they didn’t even try to was SP. I’m a little upset they didn’t take a risk on a high upside type like Ben Sheets, but he got a pretty guaranteed penny. I was never crazy about Joel Piniero. I like Randy Wolf’s deal over the one the Braves gave Derek Lowe last year, but that happened pretty early in the offseason. None of these were easy/clear cut situations. The Mets probably played things too passively here, but I don’t necessarily think their approach is in conflict with their approach to the ‘pen. The most succesful year the Mets had under Omar was built on a very similar offense, a terrible rotation, and a cheaply built bullpen with the same kind of high upside talent they have now that just happened to come together really well. If they get lucky and put another 7 WAR bullpen out there this year like they did in 2006, not impossible, they’ll probably way outperform preseason projections. I think they’ve given themselves a decent chance at that, though having K-Rod instead of Wagner hurts off the bat, but regardless done so very cost effectively.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Mar 1, 2010 12:19 AM EST up reply actions
Your math is pretty bad.
It’s 3.375 million if he reaches all of his incentives, and alot of those are for games finished. It would actually probably be a good thing if he hit those numbers, as it would likely mean K-rod doesn’t finish enough games to trigger that ridiculous option.
Pinella: Where th f*ck was that pitch at?
Ump: Lou, don't you know that you're not supposed to end a sentence with a preposition?
Pinella: Where the f*ck was that pitch at, a$$h*le?
by Stephen Schmidt on Mar 1, 2010 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
4.375...typo
Pinella: Where th f*ck was that pitch at?
Ump: Lou, don't you know that you're not supposed to end a sentence with a preposition?
Pinella: Where the f*ck was that pitch at, a$$h*le?
by Stephen Schmidt on Mar 1, 2010 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
jerry just made a statement Thurs or Friday
that he was “Right on Schedule”. This is why this organization is a joke. They hide injuries and are not up front with anything. Look we all knew he was hurt and was a bust but to make false statements its getting a little ridiculous already.
yeah
that guaranteed deal suddenly isn’t looking all that smart (although, guaranteeing money to a pitcher who’s thrown 5 innings over 2 seasons never should be considered “smart”). at least it is only 1+ million being wasted on the DL…we’ve certainly seen worse.
by Steve Schreiber on Feb 28, 2010 7:23 AM EST reply actions
This was a decent signing
It’s a low cost contract with a decent upside and it didn’t prevent Omar from signing either of those three. The market overpriced Lackey and Marquis (I’m not sure about Davis) and to Omar’s credit he didn’t overreact and offer them an awful contract.
If the $1.25 million spent on Escobar prevented the Mets from going after Hudson or Lopez I can see bashing this deal. But that was never realistic possibility because the Mets were never going to pay Castillo $6 million to sit on the bench.
Omar deserves to be bashed for a lot of things but this isn’t one of them.
One More Time, with feeling:
LACKEY WAS NOT SIGNING HERE. PEE-REE-OD.
Davis walks (nearly) 2 guys an inning. Would YOU want that anywhere near CitiField?
I agree on Marquis.
Oh, the butcher and the baker and the people on the street: wheredotheygo?!?!?
I'm not even gonna pretend
to understand the bashing of this signing. Honestly Doug Davis or Jason Marquis?? I’ll take my chances with Oliver Perez….at least we don’t know what’s he is gonna do. We know Davis/Marquis are gonna be 4th/5th starter material. Escobar at 50% is better than those guys..
by RIPShea on Feb 28, 2010 11:13 AM EST via mobile reply actions
he is worth the shot
And besides we don’t know how long he’s gonna be on the DL at this point.
by RIPShea on Feb 28, 2010 12:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, true.
It could be a stint on the 15-day DL at the beginning of the season, and then for the rest of the season, things are going good. That’s the best case scenario, I guess.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 28, 2010 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
He is worth a shot
the problem is if the team seems to be adverse to spending money, which it seems like the mets were this off-season, you probably shouldn’t be giving 1 million guaranteed to fliers.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
I didn't say this contract specifically
but if you’re not going to be willing to sign guys like Branyan/Lopez/Laroche/Hudson or Piniero for relatively cheap contracts, essentially taking flier on the first 2, what’s the purpose of spending a similar amount to take multiple fliers on a players who’ll have much less effect on the game. I mean if they’re logic, which seems to have been what reports were saying,
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Wow forgot to finish my sentence
if they’re logic was that they didn’t want to spend money because they didn’t think the players were worth it and instead wanted to figure out what they had in this current team why wouldn’t they have taken a similar approach to the bullpen/catching spots/cora.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
I don't think that was the philosophy
The philosophy (misguided as it may be) seemed to be: Castillio is getting $6 million so he is going to be the starter no matter what and we aren’t going to commit any more money to an occupied position, Murphy is our firstbaseman and we can find someone in house to platoon with him, and the starting pitchers are asking for too much and none of the cheaper ones are sure bets to be better than the guys we have if they all pitch their best.
The Mets looked at this team and decided that they were only going to focus on open positions (LF, C, RP) rather than try to upgrade the “occupied” positions. (1B, 2B, RF, SP) The fact that a lot of fans are upset that they didn’t try to do this is justifiable, but the fact is the organization never seemed to have the intention of spending money “doubling up” on positions.
Yeah I should say I don't have a problem with taking a flier on escobar
I have a problem with their philosophy itself.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
this deserves it's own thread but I'll spare you
Gina lobby for Manuel and third base case of life to follow in Ozzie Guillens footsteps and start twittering.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Someone taught Ozzie Guillen
anyone can be taught.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Feb 28, 2010 10:34 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
rec'd
President of the Ramses Barden Fan Club
by Hoyadestroya85 on Feb 28, 2010 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
Anooying
This is bitching for the sake of bitching. Wait until the season starts in earnest to start indicting everyone.
President of the Ramses Barden Fan Club
by Hoyadestroya85 on Feb 28, 2010 10:20 PM EST reply actions
People, this is actually a GOOD thing:
it indicates an organizational shift toward the “more cautious” phiilosophy with regard to injuries/pain/discomfort, etc. rather than the “get back on the field NOW!” attitude that’s prevailed.
Oh, the butcher and the baker and the people on the street: wheredotheygo?!?!?
Or it means Escobar really can't even grip a ball
and even Jerry and Omar were forced to concede
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
C'Mon, Gina...
You know that whole “can’t-grip-a-ball” thing was more MSM made up crap…
Oh, the butcher and the baker and the people on the street: wheredotheygo?!?!?
At this point
I don’t know what to believe when it comes to the mets and injuries
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
True, but...
The POST (I think) had the bit about him not being able togrip a ball, then the next day, Santana’s telling everybody how he played catch with the man: My money’s on Johan…
Oh, the butcher and the baker and the people on the street: wheredotheygo?!?!?
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Recent FanShots
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
