Francoeur picking out bats with the enemy
Chris, in your time together with Jeff, please teach him how to walk. Just a little bit.
over 2 years ago
Preach19
19 comments
0 recs |
Email
PrintComments
um dear mr. coghlan
please teach frenchy how to take a walk.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
somehow i didn't even realize you had written the same thing
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
it bears repeating
looks like they’re taking the jesus mobile. or a flight on delta.
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
sometimes
I think Gina’s mind is like one of those Jupiter Brains.
Incredible computational power, but the transmission lag can sometimes yield anomalous results.
Well, Chris Coghlan ain't exactly a walker, either
He drew 53 walks in 565 PA’s—not much different from his 154 in 1301 minor league PA’s—last year. Of course, Francoeur drew a whopping 89 walks in 1558 minor league PA’s and owns a career .332 minor league on base average, and his 138 in 2940 MLB PA’s with a .311 on base average are even worse, but it isn’t like taking plate discipline lessons from Chipper Jones or selectivity lessons from Adam Dunn.
The real problem with Francoeur is his athleticism is shot and to generate any bat speed, he has to start his swing extremely early (his swing was always long to begin with), to the point where he has little idea of whether or not it will be a pitch he can do anything with by the time he’s already committed to swinging. That’s not something Chris Coghlan or Adam Dunn or Carlos Beltran can correct, that’s something that needs to be addressed by the training and hitting staff.
If the Braves had cared, they probably would’ve tried harder to do something to shorten his swing, but they were mostly in their “fuck sabermetrics” phase during Francoeur’s development, so they basically said (I think): “we’re cool if he doesn’t walk much, so long as he hits .300 with 30 homers”. We might have a .300 hitting, 30 HR Jeff Francoeur today if the Braves hadn’t allowed Francoeur to work out like a football player and completely destroy his athleticism over two off seasons (2007 and 2008 pre seasons).
With Francoeur’s development mostly complete at this point, it’s probably impossible to mess with his swing so he can be more selective. The Mets should have Francoeur on whatever workout will make him as athletic as possible—that’s basically the only way to extrapolate additional value out of him. Hitting .300 with 30 HR and an on base average of around .330 is useful. At that point, he’s probably doing enough else well to make up for the large number of outs, especially if he’s back to playing plus defense (something that also went away with his athleticism)…
What I’m trying to say is I don’t think Francoeur is ever going to walk. His development was geared towards everything but walking, his bed’s made and he’s going to have to hit/slug/defend—rather than walk—his way out of it. I wouldn’t waste any mental energy on the thought of someone teaching Francoeur a lesson about walking, it’ll inevitably be useless due to things the alleged teacher can’t change.
We all know OBP is god, but that’s just not an option, here. I know this is a joke and everything, and I don’t mean to address anything in this thread specifically (I’m speaking in general terms), but sincerely hoping Francoeur will improve his plate discipline is a step short of delusional. What Mets fans really should be hoping for is he returns in 2010 and regains his fielding range and throwing accuracy, hits .300, and hits a bunch of extra base hits. Because there’s a non zero probability that will happen, but a zero probability he learns to take more than one or two bases on balls a week.
http://www.capitolavenueclub.com/
by PWHjort on Feb 6, 2010 2:03 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
I'm not sure about the fuck sabremetrics phase
but Frenchy was an AWESOME defender when he first came up, to the point he was still worth like 2-3 WAR the first two years despite his awful offense.
That being said, thank you for smashing all my hopes and dreams. Also he’s back to being listed at 220-225, I can’t say I payed much attention to what he looked like when he first came up but is he still a lot bigger than he was?
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
He lost a bunch of weight last off season
And yeah, he had the best outfield arm in baseball and above average range. UZR probably understates how good of a fielder he actually was, everyone talked about how he had a chance to be an elite defensive RF.
I don’t remember his actual weights. He still seems like he’s a bit bigger and certainly less athletic than when he came up.
http://www.capitolavenueclub.com/
Plus/Minus always liked him.
He was ranked 5th, 13th, and 6th among RF’ers in his first 3 seasons and Dewan had him as his 6th best RF’er in baseball prior to the 2009 season. He still looks above average on shallow and medium balls, but he’s gone from +9 to -13 on deep balls while declineing some every year. It’s possible just getting him to play a little deeper will improve his defense dramatically, as his arm will still keep balls that drop in front of him from being as damaging as balls that get behind him.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 6, 2010 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
Not that I'd expect the current Mets coaching staff to come to that conclusion.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 6, 2010 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah they probably never thought Frenchy was good defensively
and love him for his aggressiveness at the plate.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Part of me wonders if he'll adjust by playing a little deeper just because of the Mo Zone.
Just looking at the data in the fielding bible makes me think that starting a step or two back would really improve his value in the outfield. I kind of hope the odd shape in RF forces that adjustment.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 6, 2010 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
I would classify Coghlan as a decent "walker"
and pitch selectivity is often something that improves as one progresses in the Big Leagues. You have a point, though, that it would be difficult for Frenchy to make drastic changes in his game. One thing though—I don’t think his athleticism is “shot,” like you said. He’s not a burner in on the basepaths or the most rangey outfielder, but I still think he’s quite athletic. That being said, his main asset in the outfield is his arm. Even with a gain in weight like you were discussing below, I don’t think you can say that he’s shot athletically, at 26.
Trying to believe is my full-time occupation.
Well I imagine he means compared to where he was when he came up
when he had awesome range to go along with the awesome arm. He also had a spd rating of 4.3 his first year which I think is pretty decent.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Via Fangraphs
4.2 his first year and 4.3 last year, both of which were a bit under average. So yeah, decent. But I still can’t agree with the premise that his athleticism is “shot,” even when compared to his first year.
Trying to believe is my full-time occupation.
He definitely regained some of it last year. It’s apparent in his range and bat speed (I think) being up in ’09. The bat speed thing is mainly where the deterioration of athleticism was observed. Or, having to start his swing so early to hit the ball out of the infield.
http://www.capitolavenueclub.com/
I think you're right
about having to start his swing early. But yeah, a change of scenery was best for Francoeur’s game at this point.
Trying to believe is my full-time occupation.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Recent FanShots
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
