Indefinite Applesauce - Reyes out at least two weeks, Mets turn to Tejada, Pelfrey shaky again

by Joe Budd on Mar 12, 2010 9:59 AM EST in Applesauce

Meet the Mets

The big news yesterday was obviously that Jose Reyes is out for at least two weeks and maybe even eight, but really, who can actually expect that Reyes will be back before 14 weeks? But, I'm so glad that Omar signed Alex Cora when he's likely going to turn to minor leaguer Ruben Tejada as a replacement. Here's what you should expect to go through in terms of grief. And here is Greg Prince's teeth gnashing.

Oh yeah, and there was baseball yesterday as the Red Sox thumped the Mets 8-2. What you should know: Mike Pelfrey is still struggling and Mike Jacobs and Jason Pridie homered back-to-back.

R.J. Anderson weighs in on the Jenrry Mejia lunacy.

Mack presents a useful list of Met prospects you should probably have on your radar.

Patrick Flood follows up on yesterday's post, explaining why starters are more valuable than relievers.

Around MLB

If you want to feel a little bit better about life, here are the ways that the Phillies could take large steps back this year.

A crazy baseball fight in Cuba.

Baseball stadium models built of Legos. I pretty much had to pass this along, seeing as I am Lego David Wright.

Perennially underappreciated Brian Giles has retired after getting tired of dealing with his bum knees.

The Rockies and Todd Helton have agreed on a two-year extension.

Nomar got one day of grace from steroid accusations.

If you haven't done so already, I won't judge you, but you probably should check out the Amazin' Avenue Annual. It's free and really, if you're reading this, I know you have the time to download and read it.

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I put Patrick Flood in the corner and he is swing his way out. why Rickfansince76 thinks Relief is more valuable than starting

OK you made some good points and I understand why one might look at the starter as the better option. If he eats innings he could save the pen.

I got you thinking, you had to dig down, and you even made some points for Papelbon being valuable.

Now lets still look at the Mariano Rivera vs Andy Petite. Here you could say are 2 very important players in the Yankees run over the last 15 years. Now they both came up the same year, and if petite were to retire, yeah the Yankees would miss him butthere were a handful of starters out there that could probably perform similar to Andy during the regular season. Now Andy has proven to be way above average in the post season.
He has thrown so many innings he is no longer a #1

Mariano is still considered one of the top guys to close a game, maybe the best still. Is it because he has picthed a lot fewer innings, maybe.

I feel if you put Mejia into the pen there is a better chance to have him closing games for the next 10 years, then if you start him. I feel he may only be useful for 5 from overwork.

look at us when we tried to rely on Heilman to close games, he couldn’t do it, he blew game after game in his brief attempt

by Rickfansince76 on Mar 12, 2010 10:51 AM EST reply actions

It comes down to this

what would you rather have? 200 innings of 3 ERA, or 60 innings of 3 ERA? Keep in mind re Mejia, we already have BB-Rod who can provide the 3 ERA in 60 innings

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Mar 12, 2010 11:03 AM EST up reply actions

That basically sums everything up in a very concise way.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Mar 12, 2010 1:42 PM EST up reply actions

ok but

how many guys pitch 200 innings at a 3.00 for more than a few years. The best pitcher thas has come to the Mets since I am alive was Doc Gooden. he was lights out, but lasted only 5-6 years. Now he was abusive to himself.

I still say Mejia will be around for a lot longer as a closer than he could survive as a starter, and that is my reasoning. Plus if you remember back to the days when we had Benitez as our closer, he single handedly ruined our playoffs..if we had a true shut down closer maybe we win a World Series.

by Rickfansince76 on Mar 12, 2010 3:17 PM EST up reply actions

Gooden's career WAR was 47.6, Mariano Rivera's was 49.9.

Over the course of their career’s they were worth roughly the same amount of wins. As you pointed out, Gooden derailed his career way too early with drugs. Rivera has probably been the best reliever in the history of the game, and has had a remarkably long and healthy career. Even if he had declined sharply, if Gooden had kept his nose clean (literally) he’d have been far more valuable than Rivera over the course of their careers. There really is no reason to believe that Mejia could possibly be worth more in a bullpen role than as a starter.

Pinella: Where th f*ck was that pitch at?
Ump: Lou, don't you know that you're not supposed to end a sentence with a preposition?
Pinella: Where the f*ck was that pitch at, a$$h*le?

by Stephen Schmidt on Mar 12, 2010 3:27 PM EST up reply actions

how do you know

that WAR is definitive? I just posted yesterday that Jon Garland has out-WARred Rivera over the last 8 years. Maybe it is so, that garland is more valuable, but it is at least something I would think about, is this really capturing everything.

That said, there’s no doubt that the basic argument makes sense. 200 innings of a good starter is worth more than even a great reliever. What if Rivera would have been Bob Gibson as a starter? That’s preferable.

Schilling was mostly a reliever for 2 years before he became a starter. But Gina et al have me convinced that Mejia isn’t that type of guy, or like Wainwright, who started in the minors, then was a reliever at first before going back.

I think Rick is wrong in the ideea that relieving versus starting will necessarily presrve an arm. Relievers can flame out after a brief run (Gagne, Putz, K-Rod-wait, i didn’t say that), and flame throwers can last a long time starting, Johnson, Ryan, Seaver…it depends on a lot of variables.

You definitely want Mejia to ultimately be a starter and se if he can’t do that. While I am not convinced relieving now torpedoes him, and I am not in panic mode, it isn’t the best course.

by wobatus on Mar 12, 2010 4:26 PM EST up reply actions

Yeah if Meija spent the year in AA/AAA

and his off-speed pitches made significant strides I’d be all for putting him in the bullpen at the end of the year and next year to get him work using his pitches against major league hitters will monitoring his inning totals. I’m just against them breaking camp with him in the bullpen.

"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'

it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.

by Gina on Mar 12, 2010 4:35 PM EST up reply actions

Most of us probably feel that way.

That hits the nail on the head.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Mar 12, 2010 5:53 PM EST up reply actions

That basic argument you mention is exactly my point.

Jenrry Mejia providing 175-200 innings at a 3.75 ERA is far more valuable than Jenryy Mejia providing 60 innings at a 2.75 ERA, even if all of those innings come in games we are leading in the 9th. The raw quantity of innings he’s pitching make his value to the team greater, even if he’s slightly less effective because of that.

Pinella: Where th f*ck was that pitch at?
Ump: Lou, don't you know that you're not supposed to end a sentence with a preposition?
Pinella: Where the f*ck was that pitch at, a$$h*le?

by Stephen Schmidt on Mar 12, 2010 4:52 PM EST up reply actions

You can't look at only WAR for an above-average closer

Since they consistently pitch in high-leverage situations. Rivera is worth a lot more than 50 wins.

by DoghouseBlues on Mar 13, 2010 10:30 AM EST up reply actions

Disagree.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Mar 13, 2010 2:23 PM EST up reply actions

leverage is factored in fWAR I believe

"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'

it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.

by Gina on Mar 13, 2010 11:15 PM EST up reply actions

Keep in mind, also:

Without a good effort by your starting pitcher, your closer has no impact on the game. You can only be in a save situation when you’re in the game.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Mar 12, 2010 5:51 PM EST up reply actions

"Benitez... single handedly ruined our playoffs"

Really? Nobody else had anything to do with that? Hampton? Jones? Alfonzo? Ventura? Nobody else played poorly in that World Series?

by JoshNY on Mar 13, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions

if you also remember

we tried starting Heilman and he threw a one hitter for us, amongst a few pretty good starts. Some players are suited to be starters, others closers. Mejia has the tools to be a starter, just not the experience. Why not give him the chance?

by KeithsMoustache on Mar 12, 2010 11:03 AM EST up reply actions

Wait, when did we try to use Heilman to close games?

You mean in 2008, when he was overworked and pitching while injured? It’s ridiculous and simplistic to say that he had some sort of mental deficiency that rendered him incapable of finishing games.

by JoshNY on Mar 12, 2010 2:44 PM EST up reply actions

Mariano Rivera is probably the best relief pitcher in the history of baseball.

Expecting Mejia to be anywhere near as valuable as Rivera is ridiculous. If you are going to compare Pettites value to that of a reliever, you should probably aim a little lower than Mo.

Pinella: Where th f*ck was that pitch at?
Ump: Lou, don't you know that you're not supposed to end a sentence with a preposition?
Pinella: Where the f*ck was that pitch at, a$$h*le?

by Stephen Schmidt on Mar 12, 2010 3:16 PM EST up reply actions

Best plan would be

let him go to the minors and start. If the Mets are in the hunt come August or Sept. and need bullpen help, then bring him up (provided he has not thrown tons of innings). Then he can go back to starting next year.

by Mackey Sasser on Mar 12, 2010 11:26 AM EST reply actions

Pelfrey

I think your update is a bit negative and maybe reflective of lower expectations this year for Mike. He had a tough first inning but I thought he really rebounded after that and looked good. Struck guys out and knee did not seem to bother him.

by Endys Game on Mar 12, 2010 11:27 AM EST reply actions

Yeah, I thought it was a good outing

He doesn’t have his heavy sink yet, and apparently that’s to be expected, as it takes time to develop. He had a difficult first inning but didn’t let it get to him.

by SuperT on Mar 12, 2010 1:16 PM EST up reply actions

From what I read in the game thread, he was throwing more offspeed stuff right?

I lobby for job.

by Brian. on Mar 12, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions

Agree

A Baltimore chop double, a seeing eye single, a walk that w/ a different ump 2 pitches could have been called strike 3, a sac fly. Really only one hard hard hit ball from Martinez. Some nice Ks and good location every at bat. I thought it was a good outing for Pelf.

He was a boy of soft demeanor
And he loved his caburetor cleaner

by Nystrom on Mar 12, 2010 1:21 PM EST up reply actions

I thought Pelfrey looked good.

He gave up 3 runs in 3 IP (or was it 2?), but that’s okay, because he otherwise looked sharp, and was being pinched (I thought).

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Mar 12, 2010 1:43 PM EST up reply actions

Annual

Word on the print version? I don’t like reading long stuff on screens and am employed somewhere other than an office. So count me psyched but waiting.

by Pack Bringley on Mar 12, 2010 11:49 AM EST via mobile reply actions

Applesauce

I have no particular love for Nomar or anything, but that article by Henson is a little excessive. As he himself says, “Garciaparra’s name didn’t come up in the Mitchell Report. He never testified before Congress. He wasn’t implicated in BALCO.” I have no problem being suspicious of players if they give me reason to. Normar hasn’t been implicated in anything. At least let him be implicated in something before connecting him to steroids.

And, I’m still holding out hope that when Omar says Mejia will start in the Minor Leagues, he means it, and his word trumps Jerry’s. In any other organization, you know it would. But, here, with our circumstances, you never know anymore…

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Mar 12, 2010 1:54 PM EST reply actions

Re: Starting vs. Relieving

Pitchers with Mejia’s kind of stuff should be given every opportunity to fail at starting before being converted to a reliever.

Closers are not as important as Mike Francessa and fantasy baseball would have you believe. Mariano Rivera is an anomaly. You might have an easier time finding the fountain of youth than finding “the next Rivera.”

by keithprime on Mar 12, 2010 6:30 PM EST reply actions