The Optimal Rotation Depends On Your Priorities
As decision-time for Jerry Manuel approaches, many are talking about the Mets fifth-starter race. The team seems to favor Jon Niese, with Fernando Nieve and Hisanori Takahashi as his main competition. Nelson Figueroa already seems eliminated and isn't too happy about it, which is understandable given the comparative talent and reliability of those pitchers ahead of him.
So the Mets have options, and consequences that accompany every possible move. Niese and Takahashi can be outrighted to the minors at any time. Nelson Figueroa and Fernando Nieve are both out of minor league options, so would have to clear waivers to be demoted to Buffalo. Figueroa could also refuse assignment and test free-agency. He recently insinuated he would do just that, if waived, and sign for a better salary in Japan. With the Mets, Figueroa narrowly missed arbitration and has a very underwhelming split-contract that will earn him ~1/4 of the major-league minimum in AAA.
Fearing Figueroa's release, some people have begun lobbying for his inclusion somewhere in the pitching staff. The main argument is a basic truth, most clearly demonstrated by a practical example here: teams always need more than 5 starters, often 6 or 7...or 11, in the case of the 2009 Mets.
Howard Medgdal, ostensibly concerned with this depth, but also clearly infatuated with Figueroa, proposed this staff:
- SP1: Santana/ SP2: Perez (he didn't explicitly say this but...)/ SP3: Pelfrey/ SP4:Maine/ SP5: Figueroa
- Pen: Rodriguez/Feliciano/Calero/Igarashi/Parnell/Green/Nieve
Figueroa pitched well last season in the minors and averagely in the majors, but is a guy who sported a FIP well north of 5 for most of his career. I'll buy that he's figured a lot out since then, but a 36-year-old coming off a career year is a 36-year-old coming off a career year.
Which leads to my real problem with Howard's idea: it assumes the Mets will be competitive without fielding the most competitive possible staff. The logic behind keeping Figueroa is that more depth keeps the team competitive, but here, Figueroa blocks at least one better pitcher. To illustrate this contradiction, consider two possible staffs, based on opposite philosophical extremes.
Now to those of you convinced 2010 will be a playoff miss and developmental year: how committed are you to that idea? If you truly believe 2010 is a gap year, I'd recommend this staff:
- SP1: Santana/ SP2: Pelfrey/ SP3: Perez/ SP4: Nieve/ SP5: Takahashi
- Pen: Rodriguez/Feliciano/Calero/Igarashi/Parnell/Green/Maine
The rotation features three pitchers, who are extremely uncertain, but have the upside to be important rotation pieces going forward. Oliver Perez is self-explanatory: the Mets will be paying him a lot of money either way and a good year from him can only make him more useful or more tradeable in the future. Assuming his fastball velocity returns, the potential is there.
I love Nieve's stuff and the flashes of a good changeup portend well for him becoming more than just a situational reliever. If his slider returned to pre-Tommy John levels, he could be a real force. Takahashi's fastball is underwhelming, but he's being severely underrated. Hiroki Kuroda came to America a year older than Takahashi, with worse peripherals, and turned in a season arguably better than Johan's. Kuroda does have a better fastball and generates a good number of groundballs to compensate for his lower strikeout rates, but Takahashi's screwball is supposedly good at inducing grounders and both pitchers have similarly deep and varied arsenals. Maybe my comparison is way off-base here, but we really do not know how Takahashi will fare, and therein lies the upside.
The main objective here is exploring the unknown. We mostly know Maine's upside and starting the season on long-relief could help ease his shoulder back to a full workload. Figueroa's upside is also basically known and limited, so while his most likely performance this year is probably exceeds that of Nieve or Takahashi, he is expendable in the long-term. This staff also delays Niese's arbitration clock, while getting him and Mejia regular work in the minors.
Alternatively, the most competitive squad seems to be this:
- SP1: Santana/ SP2: Niese/ SP3: Pelfrey/ SP4: Maine/ SP5: Figueroa
- Rodriguez./Feliciano/Calero/Igarashi/Mejia/Parnell/Perez
Niese is the second best starter in the organization right now. He's better than Pelfrey, all projection systems agree, and until Maine demonstrates some health, Niese is #2. This plan, however, has obvious problems, most obviously putting Mejia in the bullpen and, to a lesser extent, conceding Perez's contract as a sunk cost.
So how do the Mets balance these two goals: winning and player development? Ted Berg provides one answer: demoting Green and Parnell and carrying the spot starters as relievers. I think this proposal sits closest between something I really like and something the Mets would actually do.
Howard's staff is another such attempt at balance, but, because it excludes Niese for Figueroa, a fundamentally bad plan. It also relegates Nieve to the bullpen, potentially permanently, which prevent him from ever reaching his potential as a starter. Because I fear Nieve being claimed off waivers, my compromise would be to send Takahashi to AAA and start Maine in the bullpen.
Mainly, I don't want to start Figueroa in the rotation. A good comp for Figgy would be Batman. Both, wealthy but unfulfilled in their youth, traveled the world honing their skills, and now return to defeat younger, physically superior combatants with superior technique. Do I fear and respect Batman? Yes, of course, but he's a crafty superhero, who relies on his wits and doesn't figure to get much better with age. Why call on Batman to do a simple job he's probably capable of doing, when one or more of these other guys might discover hidden superpowers?
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I invented Nieve
just like I invented Tejada.
But I don’t think there’s a starter within him. He looks like a Chan Ho Park type, where his stuff plays much better in short relief. There’s almost no evidence to suggest that he can be a successful starter.
I do agree with one of your central points that Maine shouldn’t be guaranteed a rotation spot. Green should be optioned, no matter what.
There’s a lot of figuring to do that goes beyond what ST can show and using the flexibility granted by players having options is what smart teams do. Nelson is an ideal longman: he can start, he can relieve, he has a rubber arm, and you really don’t give a shit if he gets hurt.
A bullpen of KRod/Felly/Iggy/Calero//Nieve/Takahashi/Figgy, with Parnell and Green optioned, makes the most sense from an asset maximization point of view. Parnell can work on sharpening his cutter/slider in AAA, Green can work on not being miserable, and you don’t lose Figgy/Nieve to waivers. Should anyone fail in the rotation or get hurt, you can slot in Takahashi or Figgy and then call up Parnell/Green.
Seems like the smartest way to maximize our options.
by firejerrymanuel on Mar 23, 2010 7:53 AM EDT reply actions
I am almost in complete agreement
Except I do not believe that John Maine has earned a role in the starting rotation. The guy can’t stay healthy and (if this spring is any indication) seemingly can’t even throw strikes anymore. In fact, the only reason Oliver Perez should be in the rotation is because of his contract, which is, in the words of Al Gore, a very inconvenient truth.
Maine is toast. We probably should have non-tendered the guy and SIGNED A FREE AGENT STARTING PITCHER!!! Sorry, can’t help it, I get mad about it sometimes…but even though we have him, it doesn’t mean he should be starting. His FIP is going up, his K/9 is going down, and his arm is about as alive as Tom DeLay on “Dancing with the Stars.”
Therefore, I propose a starting rotation of Santana/Pelfrey/Niese/Takahashi/Perez with a bullpen of K-Rod/Calero/Feliciano/Igarashi/Nieve/Figueroa/Maine. The only issue with this is it leaves us with one lefty in the bullpen, but that is easily remedied by swapping out Tak2 with Nieve or Figgy if the Japanese import struggles or bringing up someone like Eric Niesen from the farm system.
"F***ing shocker." -Billy Wagner
It's weird
I don’t even care about the rotation, I just don’t want to see Mejia in the bullpen. Nice writeup though.
"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell
Maine
I really don’t understand the whole Maine shouldn’t be in the rotation garbage.
Maybe i’m a sucker for the past and such but i still remember how good he was in the 1st half of 07 (~2.7 ERA) and that near no hitter 14k performance.
If he says he’s healthy lets just believe him and not blow up spring training games where he’s tinkering with pitches. I dont expect him to do what he did in the 1st half of 07 but he’s better than pelf and perez (healthy or not)
Terrific piece
I think you make some great points, Sam. I guess where we disagree is over what you can expect from Figueroa, and more to the point, how likely the Mets will be to need Niese anyway.
Your plan doesn’t sound crazy by any means. I’d be plenty happy with Niese in the rotation and Figueroa as long reliever, too.
For me the optimum rotation at this point would be,
Santana/Pelfrey/Perez/Maine/Niese with a bullpen of K-rod/Feliciano/Calero/Igarashi/Nieve/Figueroa/Takahashi. I feel likel this would do a nice job of giving us a potentially competitive rotation while putting good arms in the pen that can pitch to both righties and lefties. It also gives Niese some seasoning at the ML level in a year where expectations aren’t quite as high as they likely will be next year.
I like the fact that we aren’t losing any guys who are out of options (with the possible exception of Misch), and we’re trying to put a competitive team out there for right now. Maine’s shoulder scares me, but there are enough guys in that pen that can give us some length and a spot start here or there if needed. I’d have Parnell working as a starter in AAA, but only so he could get more regular work on his secondary stuff. Green has an option left as well, so we might as well use it.
Who cares how bad the Bay deal will look in 2013, the world is going to end in 2012 anyway
by Stephen Schmidt on Mar 23, 2010 11:51 AM EDT reply actions
One more thought...
Figueroa’s season wasn’t all that career-year like. His periphs in AAA were similar to his career norms, and his MLB numbers were on par with the AAA equivalents, as well. I’m not at all sure 2009 was much of a departure for him.
I wonder if
Jarrod Washburn would now take $5-7m to come and pitch for the Mets for a year. Not a pitcher I like, particularly, but would provide solid mid-rotation innings and allow Niese a year to develop/prove recovered (or however long it takes Ollie to completely crack). Santana, Pelfrey, Washburn, Perez, Maine with Figueroa in the pen as longman/spot starter (and insurance against Maine injury), Tak2 in the pen as a lefty set up man, Nieve in the pen or tradebait, and Niese in Buffalo pro tem.
I mean, I’m not sold on the idea, I’m just putting it out there.
Jarrod Washburn isn't better than Jon Niese at this point, and certainly not worth 5-7 million.
The perception of Washburn last year was nice, but in reality his last two seasons have been remarkably similar to Livan.
Who cares how bad the Bay deal will look in 2013, the world is going to end in 2012 anyway
by Stephen Schmidt on Mar 23, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think he's anything like as good as Niese
But he’s not as bad as Livan either – last three seasons ERA+ of 116 (09), 90 (08) and 101 (07) to Livan’s 76, 71 and 96. Also somehow Washburn for ten years has managed to outperform his xFIP by about half a point of ERA, which is significant. I think he’d be the third best pitcher in a non-Niese rotation.

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