Good Times in Big League Camp for Top Prospects
by Mark Himmelstein on Mar 6, 2010 3:50 PM EST
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PrintAfter watching Jenrry Mejia throw these nasty pitches en route to retiring seven straight batters yesterday and watching Ike Davis hit this monstrous Home Run in the game prior, you can add Fernando Martinez to the list of Mets top prospects off to a ridiculously impressive start in this year's Grapefruit League action. After getting into three games and going 4 for 8 with a triple, Martinez made the trip to Melborne to face the Nationals today and proceeded to obliterate some baseballs, going 4 for 4 with two home runs. Both homers came off of major league pitchers (though hardly world beaters) and former Mets: the first off Shawn Estes (who did not pitch in the majors in 2009) and the second off career reliever Tyler Walker.
For those counting, this makes Fernando 8 for 12 thus far with two homers and a triple. He's also yet to either strike out or draw a walk, which while a bit strange and something to watch moving forward, is hardly worth complaining about when he's hitting this well.
Being that three of the biggest current roster questions for the Mets involve pitching, first base, and center field; Mejia, Davis, and Martinez are three guys to watch closely. Extending their hot starts into late March could earn them serious consideration as candidates to go north with the big club.
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Martinez is the most comfortable fit in the MLB for me,
but in an ideal situation all three would be in the minors for longer. Just that F! has already been up a little bit and been through AAA, etc.
Travis Hafner is made of gold
Yeah I tend to agree
It would be least problematic for Fernando, but I think its pretty close between he and Davis in terms of the potential upgrade they could provide. Ideally Pagan and Murphy both play solid and its a non-issue, and really Mejia doesn’t yet belong in this conversation, but the MSM and Jerry seem to be forcing him in there so I included him.
Its also pragmatically easier with Fernando though since Beltran should be back pretty soon, which is a good excuse to send Fernando down if he’s struggling but also a good way to stack him up against Frenchy early on to see if he’s worth keeping around. Plus keeping Pagan as a bench player makes more sense than carrying Murphy as a bench player (assuming he’s still banished from the outfield).
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Mar 6, 2010 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, I can agree on all those issues actually
It’s a good point to bring up that Beltran coming back would give an easy excuse to send down Fernando without hurting anyone’s feelings should he be struggling. And in an amazing world, Fernando proves that he is better than Frenchy, and we trade him into the abyss (however he can still provide positive interviews and various Santa photos).
Travis Hafner is made of gold
Agreed with just about everything above
Not to mention that FMart is already on the 40-man roster. Ike and Jenry aren’t and thus would have to be added. Not that some chaff couldn’t be shuffled off the roster to make room (I can only pray they expose GMJ to the waiver wire).
Don't forget
Why would we use Fartinez or Pagan when we have a perfectly good GMJjr.
by Thaddeus Ballpheasant on Mar 6, 2010 4:40 PM EST reply actions
Anyone have a highlights link for this game?
Would like to see these Martinez homers. What if Martinez earns the CF job and we platoon Pagan and Frenchy? Crazy? Or start Pagan and platoon Frenchy and Martinez? Fmart probably needs to play everyday though.
I'd have voted Ruben Tejada if the choice was available.
His approach at the plate looks great, and he’d probably better than anything we have defensively already. I don’t think we expect him to develop any power, so I can’t see it doing to much damage to give him a go as the starting second baseman. I bet his defensive value alone makes him as valuable as Castillo.
Pinella: Where th f*ck was that pitch at?
Ump: Lou, don't you know that you're not supposed to end a sentence with a preposition?
Pinella: Where the f*ck was that pitch at, a$$h*le?
Is he really that much better right now than Alex Cora?
Or for that matter Anderson Hernandez? I don’t disagree with your hypothesis, that his defensive value and approach could make him valuable in the short term, but I don’t see him upgrading a roster spot where an upgrade is possible, so why even add him to the 40-man? Plus you have to consider service time and the risk of an option year if he struggles. I just don’t see any justifiable reason to carry Tejada, even over Mejia (who I consider a huge stretch), let alone Fernando or Davis at this point.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Mar 7, 2010 5:23 AM EST up reply actions
My thought with Tejada over the other three is that he shouldn't really have his development stunted by the move.
His defense is definitely ready for the big leagues, and his approach at the plate looks very good in his limited exposure to big league pitching. I don’t see him really ever developing any power, so what we see now at the plate is likely very similar to what we’ll see whenevr he’s brought up. He’s also likely to be the one who would least hurt the payroll by becoming a super two, as the arbitration system doesn’t seem to value defensive stats. He’d likely be less of an upgrade than Davis, but I think Davis would benefit from some time in AAA to see lefties.
Pinella: Where th f*ck was that pitch at?
Ump: Lou, don't you know that you're not supposed to end a sentence with a preposition?
Pinella: Where the f*ck was that pitch at, a$$h*le?
by Stephen Schmidt on Mar 7, 2010 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
I also think that long term he won't be the starter at 2nd (Havens), so showcasing him some may be a good thing.
Hopefully the guy will show for a year or two he can play at the big league level, and be a nice trade piece if we need him several years down the line.
Pinella: Where th f*ck was that pitch at?
Ump: Lou, don't you know that you're not supposed to end a sentence with a preposition?
Pinella: Where the f*ck was that pitch at, a$$h*le?
by Stephen Schmidt on Mar 7, 2010 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
eh
i think you’re looking at this all wrong. while he will obviously never hit 30 bombs a year, who’s to say that he won’t develop 7-10 hr power? he did hit 5 hrs last year as the youngest everyday player in Double-A.
however, that will definitely NOT happen if he’s trying to develop that power against major league pitchers. and to just accept a complete lack of power seems way too shortsighted especially when you consider that if he made the roster today he would not be a starter and there’s very little if any upgrade over the current backup options. and it’s WAY too early to start assuming things about who will be the long-term starter and showcasing our prospects for trades as a result.
beyond that, if you’ve watched him closely this week his defense hasn’t actually looked THAT great (he missed ike on a throw this week by about 10 ft) so why not let him continue to solidify what will be by all accounts a strength before subjecting him to the speed of the major league game.
by Rob Castellano on Mar 7, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
don't forget
ruben batted .229 w/ a sub .300 OBP and OPS w/ only 2 hrs in Hi-A just 2 years ago. the fact that he sparkled in 2009 despite making the huge jump to Double-A was incredible, not enough people realize how badly the odds were stacked against him.
to push him now is to completely look a gift horse in the mouth. he has clearly shown the aptitude for significant development so why risk stunting that now by throwing him in the majors?
by Rob Castellano on Mar 7, 2010 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
Jenrry Mejia in the bullpen?
Hmm, nah. Our best use of him is as a SP and while he is blowing away ST hitters he obviously has some things to work up to including a secondary pitch that is effective and consistent.
As of right now he is a one trick pony…an awfully impressive one, but still.
"Wait till Biggus Dickus hears about this!"
by scott from peekskill on Mar 6, 2010 7:11 PM EST reply actions
I keep hearing
how Mejia only has one pitch but I thought he throws a decent curve and cutter. I also thought I read last year he had at least two effective pitches: FB and CB? Maybe it was a post from Mark Himmelstein wrote?
He was a boy of soft demeanor
And he loved his caburetor cleaner
no you're right
he throws a decent curve and if you watched him vs. the marlins he did snap off a curve that buckled cam maybin’s knees for a strike. problem is that he’s still wildly inconsistent w/ it; that was probably the only good one (of 3-4 by my count) that he threw that day. and in the minors, that’ll fly but in the majors if you’re not consistent w/ a secondary pitch, hitters figure it out quickly and punish you no matter how good your fb is.
so basically, he has the makings of a good pitch in that curveball but until he can throw it for a strike at least 50% of the time, it isn’t considered a major league plus or even average pitch. and IMO that’s what we should be waiting for before we call him up.
as far as his change, i’m pretty sure i only saw 1 on friday and it came in at 88mph. he still throws it way too hard and from reports he can’t control it well so that’ll be a pitch he’ll have to work on for a while, but not the kind of pitch that should keep him in the minors.
by Rob Castellano on Mar 7, 2010 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah right now he only has one major league pitch
and two pitches with potential but aren’t major league ready.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
by Gina on Mar 7, 2010 5:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
F! would be the only guy i'd consider...
…though I wish would get a full season at Buffalo. Davis needs some time at Buffalo to learn how to hit lefties and Mejia has to start at Binghamton.
**...I wish HE would get...**
gah, typos.
by Steve Schreiber on Mar 6, 2010 8:03 PM EST up reply actions
Beltran
I would seriously look into trading Beltran when he comes back and shows he can still play.He would bring back some return and the Mets could work on getting younger Right now,they are statistically the oldest team in baseball,and a losing one.
Even if the Mets wanted to trade him
I doubt they could get much for him because of the size of his contract.
You don't cheer for the Mets. You drink for the Mets.
and
I believe he has a full no trade clause.
President of the Ramses Barden Fan Club
by Hoyadestroya85 on Mar 7, 2010 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
And whichever team trades for him
can’t even offer him arbitration to collect picks.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Beltran's contract
If I am reading correctly, Beltran is due $37 million over the next two years (12 months worth of games). The deadline is 4 months into that 12 month stretch. That leaves 2/3rds of the value of the contract, or $25 million or so.
Let’s say Beltran returns June 1 and has a standard, Beltran-esque stretch (.275/.365/.490 or so), reestablishing himself as a very, very good player, though a bit weakened by age.
If the going rate (in WAR terms) is $4.5 million/win, that means Beltran has to be worth… a bit less than 6 wins over 8 months, or, for 2011, about 4.5 wins, to be a reasonable investment. If Beltran proves that he’s back in form, I would bet the Mets could find a taker.
The no-trade clause is a whole other concern, though.
Keep in mind that he won't net a typical return as he can't be offered arbitration.
The fact that the team trading for him won’t get two picks will certainly reduce the package Omar would get back.
Pinella: Where th f*ck was that pitch at?
Ump: Lou, don't you know that you're not supposed to end a sentence with a preposition?
Pinella: Where the f*ck was that pitch at, a$$h*le?
by Stephen Schmidt on Mar 7, 2010 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
That would definitely lessen the return...
… but the lessened return still might make sense in the context of a Met team looking to retool for 2011 with a bunch of younger players.
Not in the oldest team in baseball...
Phillies and Dodgers are older.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/rosters//sort/averageage/order/true
who don't we focus on getting better?
why does everyone always assume that getting younger means getting better? the last time i checked the phillies and dodgers were both better teams than us so obviously age isn’t tied to wins. it’s pretty clear that it doesn’t matter how old your players are, just how good they are and beltran is probably our best player so trading him, regarldess of how much younger we get, makes us worse.
by Rob Castellano on Mar 7, 2010 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
Also keep in mind...
Beltran is both not that old and pretty good. So logic of trading him to get younger doesn’t make sense. In fact most of the Mets old players seem to be the Elmer Dessens of the world who are easily replaced within a year.
And there are a few players on our team that throw out the numbers. Dessens, cora, Castillo, Tatis,etc
These guys are so much older than the MLB mean that the really skew our mean age.
Where we want youth is in impact places where we have cheap, good and controllable players for a long stretch. Our core is still relatively young and that’s what is important.
"Wait till Biggus Dickus hears about this!"
by scott from peekskill on Mar 7, 2010 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
A straight age average is mostly meaningless
It matters more if we have young talent under control and aging, declining players are in short-term contracts. Age also needs to be weighted against playing time and projected current/future impact. Otherwise, we might as well just strive to be the shortest or heaviest team or something.
by DoghouseBlues on Mar 7, 2010 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
I voted Ike Davis
I;d rather have them all stay in the minors of course, but I figured he would get the best chance to play consistently. I like Murph and all but I don’t see him all that solidified to his position.
Somebody freakin' pinch me.
Can this truly be? FMart, Davis, AND, Mejia? Maybe we just need to not jinx this with threads like this.
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
I chose F!
because he’s spent the most time out of all at AAA.
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
Murphy v. Davis
I voted F-Mart, but I would prefer him to start out in AAA again. And I agree with the person who suggested dealing Beltran, as much as that hurts me to say.
I definitely would rather have Davis start in AA or AAA. We’re talking about a guy who has had one good year in the minors, and fewer than 250 PAs above A-ball. David Wright, who was a far better prospect than Davis, had 406 PAs above A-ball in which he hit .341/.441/.605, including a stretch in a strong pitchers’ park in Norfolk. Moreover, the current default (Murphy) is not a bad hitter, and he is better than average defensively. I suspect that at this stage of their careers, he and Davis are both at about the same level of value. I think Davis may well be up by midseason, but I see no good reason to rush him.
Mejia falls into the same boat, I think. While Mejia may well be better than any of the Met relievers today, he’s 19 and he has 44 innings above A-ball, where he demonstrated that he has great stuff but struggled with his command. Again, I see no reason to rush him.
not to mention
ruben tejada batting .357 and thole & nieuwenhuis both batting .333.
so where’s this barren farm system again buster?
Yeah, guys like Olney kill me with their barren farm B.S.
The best part of spring training is seeing the young guys raking the ball and seeing guys who will help us out in 1, 2 or even 3 years time.
To me, an unknowing but enthusiastic fan, I see a farm system with at least 3 top prospects and at least another 3 who with development might make it to the majors. Unless we are going to trade them for something then hopefully we will be seeing them soonish.
"Wait till Biggus Dickus hears about this!"
by scott from peekskill on Mar 7, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
F-Mart.
I would start him in CF with a Pagan/Frenchy platoon in RF. Though of course this is not happening since the Mets are in love with Francoeur would probably scoff at the idea of platooning him.
Our farm system sucks, right? Well, I hope it keeps sucking like this for another couple of years.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Mar 7, 2010 9:21 PM EST reply actions
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