Rockies 11, Mets 3: Sinking Of The Maine
by Eric Simon on Apr 13, 2010 11:50 PM EDT
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We watched all offseason as one starting pitcher after another signed with other teams. John Lackey. Randy Wolf and Joel Pineiro. Ben Sheets and Rich Harden. Even Jason Marquis and Brad Penny. All the while the Mets insisted that those pitchers were either too expensive, too injury-prone, or just not as good as starters they already had in the fold. Seven games is too early to pass judgment on much about this team right now, but John Maine has been unimaginably bad through his first two starts in 2010.
Are you ready for the good news? Maine almost certainly isn't this bad. He has faced 44 batters and allowed 15 hits, three home runs, he has walked four batters (and hit another) and struck out seven. The walk rate -- four in eight innings -- is only barely worse than his 3.94 career walks-per-game mark. The seven strikeouts over the same eight innings is pretty good. He also has, by my admittedly spotty math, a .429 BABIP so far, including .545 on Tuesday (6-for-11). That's unsustainably bad.
I'm not saying Maine is good. He could very well be mediocre or worse. The batted ball results in last night's game aren't just bad luck; his command was woeful. Check out this strike zone plot.
It looks like Andrea Bocelli's dartboard.
Four relievers combined to pitch the final five innings, with all but Fernando Nieve (three runs in a third of an inning) keeping the Rockies from unleashing additional run-scoring fury.
Two lineup mainstays had breakout games for the Mets' offense, as Jose Reyes went 2-for-5 and David Wright went 2-for-2 with two walks and his second home run of the season. Jason Bay went 1-for-3 with a walk and his for rib-eye steak of the season (chug!) and saw 21 pitches in four trips to the plate.
Rod Barajas drove in the other Met run with a sacrifice fly, and is now the proud owner of that rare early-season feat: an on-base percentage lower than his batting average, .192 versus .208.
Poem by Howard Megdal
He once bid for a perfect game
But now, John Maine is not the same
His fastball's limp, and rather flat
The hitters find his slider fat
His change is really status quo
It may be time for Maine to go
SB Nation Coverage
* Traditional Recap
* Boxscore
* Amazin' Avenue Gamethread
* Purple Row Gamethread
Win Probability Added
Big winners: David Wright, +2.6% WPA, Raul Valdez, +0.5% WPA
Big losers: John Maine, -31.5% WPA, Jeff Francoeur, -4.8% WPA
Teh aw3s0mest play: Smith flyout in second, +5.5% WPA
Teh sux0rest play: Hawpe two-run double in first, -16.6% WPA
Total pitcher WPA: -31.5% WPA
Total batter WPA: -18.5% WPA
GWRBI!: Clint Barmes
Game Thread Roll Call
Nice job by Gina; her effort in the game thread embiggens us all.
| Num | Name | # of Posts |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Gina | 115 |
| 2 | fxcarden | 108 |
| 3 | aparkermarshall | 85 |
| 4 | Syler | 61 |
| 5 | blueandorange4life | 57 |
| 6 | KeithsMoustache | 53 |
| 7 | Coolpapabell | 52 |
| 8 | bm01bath | 49 |
| 9 | EricAColucci | 48 |
| 10 | Endys Game | 43 |
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Comments
This game reminds me of the Taco Truck.
Or at least what happens after the Taco Truck. And lots of whiskey.
by Jamesir Bensonmum on Apr 13, 2010 11:55 PM EDT reply actions
Megdal really outdid himself this time
“His change is really status quo” — touche, sir, touche.
Flew right past me
until you highlighted it. Brilliant.
I'm happy that Melrose Place (featuring the incredibly hot Katie Cassidy) was on, or else I would have been compelled to watch this entire debacle.
As soon as it was 2-0 in like the second inning, I knew we were going to lose. We were facing a nobody 5th starter with generally unimpressive stuff.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Apr 14, 2010 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Haven't seen either one.
They don’t have Katie Cassidy in them, though, so that’s a a point deducted right there.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Apr 14, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Props to Megdal for the poem
And the rest of the Mets flee the sinking pitcher as the fan base looks on in horror
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage
by blueandorange4life on Apr 14, 2010 12:13 AM EDT reply actions
Poem's great
But no haiku. Since I missed the limericks:
There once was a fan of the Mets
Who also was pained by the Nets
“Oh, what poor teams did I choose!
All they do is just lose.
(At least, let’s thank God for the Jets.)”
"I've been trying transcendental meditation, and that helps me be passive and wait on the curve. I've got to find something else to hit the slider." - George (The Stork) Theodore
"Sometimes you're the Louisville Slugger, sometimes you're the ball." - Dire Straits, "The Bug"
Mike Tannenbaum
Is looking much smarter then Omar or Bruce Ratner
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage
by blueandorange4life on Apr 14, 2010 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Spring cleaning yet?
The 2010 New York Mets: Maybe it's the Phillies' turn to have 95% of its roster on the DL
The 2009 New England Patriots: At least we got our division title back
The 2009-10 New Jersey Devils: Let's hope they get past the first round this time, eh?
Now that I am away from watching him get pummelled
I really feel for Maine. He just did not look right; from the velocity on the fastball to the location of the splitter, he just looked like he didn’t have the goods. The similarity in velocity from the fastball to the change is also going to be a big problem for him.
From the 1st pitch, he was a shell of himself. I think we may have just seen him fall of the cliff. I hope for his sake that something is not right with the arm.
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but Jerry abuses the privilege.
Wright has some real nice numbers against Colorado, and at Coors Field.
He hit his second home run, and had a good game. That’s nice, at least…
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Apr 14, 2010 1:15 AM EDT reply actions
You know who else has pretty nice numbers at coors field against lefty pitching
Nick Evans
President of the Ramses Barden Fan Club
by Hoyadestroya85 on Apr 14, 2010 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Who? Steve Chilcott?
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Apr 14, 2010 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I have nothing to say
except THIS.
"The picture looked like I was in the dugout, but they got it all wrong. I absolutely was never in the dugout."
- Mr. B.V. Incognito
The thing is
From the standpoint of long-term organizational health, this is the best-case scenario.
Wright is strong, the team is tanking,
Nothing can get by him; especially in a small room: Mike Francessa
I think we need to at least give Maine
a few more starts. Mainly because there’s not much left to replace him anymore, but also because it’s only 2 starts, and this one is a cold night in Colorado where Fernando Tatis doesn’t seem to move much on a couple of very playable balls. No one seemed to mention that (though I didn’t see the game thread). I’m not making excuses, he looks bad and confidence is low, but guys, someone has to step up and make goddamn play in the field every now and then, or it doesn’t matter who you throw out there. I honestly think Maine can still turn this around, and I’m usually very negative about most of our team. And what’s our alternative now, thanks to Omar cutting Figgy? Takahashi? Gee? Maine deserves 5 to 7 starts.
I dunno, man.
Maine sure looks done to me.
"Seriously, Lana, call Kenny Loggins ‘cause you’re in the danger zone."
"Maine deserves 5 to 7 starts"
Did you watch tonight’s game?
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
I think he should get a few more starts in the minors
he really hasn’t looked good in a few years, and his velocity is gone, he just doesn’t look healthy.
in billionaire russian playboys we trust.
I think this makes the most sense.
Mackey’s plea for 5-7 starts would be very reasonable if his stuff was there. Just watching one game in which Maine didn’t pitch well and declaring him “done” probably isn’t right. But he’s lost velocity and movement on his fastball, which was basically his entire game. That nice easy motion that produced surprising velocity was, in my admittedly uninformed opinion, his best asset. And it’s gone now, and we haven’t seen it for a long time.
by EricAColucci on Apr 14, 2010 2:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree with this
Normally, I would be very keen on pushing the small sample size argument, and part of me still thinks that it is of concern. I think back to CC Sabathia’s first few starts in 2008:
4 GS, 18 IP, 32 H, 27 R, 5 HR, 14 BB, 14 K, 13.50 ERA
He followed those starts with:
31 GS, 235 IP, 191 H, 58 R, 14 HR, 45 BB, 237 K, 1.88 ERA
So bad starts can and do happen. But in the case of Maine, he has never been the pitcher that Sabathia is, and at this point, I am unable to fathom Maine pitching particularly well with his stuff right now. If the stuff shows no signs of improving, I don’t think the results are going to be too far off from his first start, at least.
I don’t know how to judge whether or not he will be able to add a few MPH on his fastball as the season wears on. But I am inclined to think that he’d be better off trying to do that in Buffalo rather than Queens, and somewhat inclined to think that he is more likely to be able to recover some of his velocity as a reliever.
thats fine, look forward to Neise tonight
I would agree, you cant judge by 2 starts, but it really draws concern. I just worry that he hasnt figured out how to pitch in 4 season.
wouldnt it be nice to have Figgy in the pen ready to take a starting role
I look forward to Neise, because he should be able to build after each start this season.
by Rickfansince76 on Apr 14, 2010 7:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Maine deserves start...
until he gets Omar and Jerry fired. Hopefully replacements with brains will then put an end to it.
Intriguing...
I’d be interested to know what everyone else would think of this.
by EricAColucci on Apr 14, 2010 2:55 AM EDT up reply actions
It's probably too early for Pedro right now, I think.
Who knows if his body would hold up? He only pitched 44 innings for the Phillies last season, but he produced a pretty decent 4.11 xFIP.
by EricAColucci on Apr 14, 2010 3:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I would definitely be ok with bringing Pedro back
how much worse can he possibly be than our other options?
2009 Did Not Happen
we should trade alex cora and gmjr to the phillies
for figgy.
in billionaire russian playboys we trust.
by Gina on Apr 14, 2010 2:42 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
For the love of God
Let this happen.
I don’t even care if this is idle speculation.
If there's ever a riot at Citi Field and Oliver Perez was the starter, I started the riot.
Man, this is starting to get ugly faster then I figured
do you guys think they end up with Mejia in the rotation before the season is over?
Also, anybody else get a kick out of Keith talking about riding a butterfly bike while erect? Hah.
You know things have gotten bad when Keith has to tell Gary to pay attention to the game.
All hell has broken loose.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
nice inning
only bad outing was his first and chalk that up to nerves
by Rickfansince76 on Apr 14, 2010 7:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I kinda hope that's what happens
I’ve pretty much given up on him back to the minors, but hopefully they’ll see how desperately bad the rotation is, and that the bullpen has looked pretty decent, put two and two together, and let him get some starts in. I wouldn’t mind him being in the ’pen until June-ish, and then start the rest of the way, so his innings total will end up being pretty reasonable.
2009 Did Not Happen
I agree with you and Evan.
It seems highly unlikely he is going back to Bingo, which we all can agree is what was best, but I would much rather seem him getting some starts for us, if the team stinks and at least we can get Jenrry stretched out. The only thing that scares me is him learning on the job, getting hit around a little bit, the Shea Citi faithful being too stupid too realize what is happening, booing him, the WFAN fone callzz starting in, this Mejiazzz not gritty enough, with his first pumps and his pointing to the sky, etc, but I agree, him starting here is not ideal, but it is better then what he is doing now, which is nothing, really.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
Prediction:
The following people will not be w/the Mets next year:
Omar Minaya
Jerry Manuel
John Maine
Oliver Perez
Luis Castillo
Gary Matthews Jr.
“Yawn”…Oh man, I just woke up from the most glorious dream! :-)
Blow the whole damn thing up already. I’m sick of this organization. It’s plain embarrassing.
This season I will expect the worst but I will be prepared for 'worser'.
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Apr 14, 2010 6:23 AM EDT reply actions
Surprise!
To state the blindingly obvious (to all but those named Wilpon), why should this 5th place start be a surprise? Do the Wilpons really need to wait until another 5% / 15%/ 95% of the season goes by? Did they really make all that money without ever hearing about sunk costs?
Yes, sure, small sample sizes and all that, but it was at least as likely that the tail would be longer on the losing end: No Beltran, Jacobs/GMJ eating up PAs, and Ollie/Maine/Johan all coming back from injuries. Even if we did win a few series at the start of the season, sooner or later we were going to regress towards our mean. And our mean is meaner than Tony Bernazard with a very scratchy shirt.
"He has lobby myself, he has lobby Tony, so when these things came out, I was kind of a little bit you had to think about it."
-- Branch Rickey
wow we really look like contenders
maine just stunk it up. I expected it, he may give us a few games but he just doesn’t have good enough stuff to be a consistent winner.
disabled people
who have been more successful than 99% of the worlds non-disabled population.
2009 Did Not Happen
I was actually disagreeing with you haha
I don’t think a rich, successful guy like Bocelli needs anyone to stick up for him, nor do I think he’d be much bothered by the blind jokes. It didn’t hold him back, so why would he be upset about it?
2009 Did Not Happen
Oh come on
I’m actually a real live “disabled” person, and I lol’d.
Perhaps today IS a good day to die.
- Klingon proverb
by Thomas Wachtel on Apr 14, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
it didnt even occur to me
that there was a game on last night.
Ugh. I have a feeling this will be the least baseball related summer of my life.
Ditto
I have never in my life been as unenthused about a season as I am this one. I will still try to make my way to Citi for the first time this year, but I’m not going to be going out of my way to catch many games.
I was really pumped up before opening day
so I, once again, sprung for the full season MLB.tv package. Last year it took until July to regret that purchase. This year, I’m already feeling some buyers remorse.
I still do love listening to GKR, and I’m kinda hoping the Wilpons will clean house and we can start to see some prospects, so I’ll be interested in watching later in the season. 2003 was one of my oddly favorite seasons, just b/c instead of sucking with washed up vets (like normal), we sucked with tons of young players who potentially had bright futures (even if Reyes was the only guy who ended up actually HAVING a bright future).
2009 Did Not Happen
The poem....
…is pretty much spot on, sadly. I don’t think Maine is going to be very effective with a sub-90 mph fastball, but, we’ll see what happens. So far, not so good.
Mets 1 for 9 , BB, SF 2 RBIs with RISP, .111
Barajas had the SF in the 7th
Wright had a walk in the 8th
Bay had a single after Wrights BB and drove in Reyes
whats risp mean?
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
Runners In Scoring Position (I am assuming)
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Apr 14, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Not that it matters but
there’s no way all those runs should have been earned against Maine. That was clearly an error on the throw, it should not have been scored a hit and an error. That was bullshit hometown scoring. And it was with 2 outs, so really only 3 or 4 of the runs should have been earned. Just saying…
interesting point
he still looked like crap
by Mike Clemente on Apr 14, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Man...I have my alarm set on WFAN, and when it went off, as I was shutting it off, I heard someone mention 'Bob Melvin'.
I subsequently went on to dream that Jerry got fired.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Apr 14, 2010 1:12 PM EDT reply actions
This isnt the start of the spanish-american war
last night is more reminiscent of Pearl Harbor. If the team plays like this we will have to invade Japan.
Mets 2010 slogan; "a whole new level of stupid you were unprepared for."
by scott from peekskill on Apr 14, 2010 2:15 PM EDT reply actions
If we can take back Yu Darvish and/or Hideaki Wakui with us, I'm all for it.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Apr 14, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
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